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post #61 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrighthenry
These are valid points, but I think they can be worked around. The key in my opinion is buying the G90 from a good reseller. I plan on buying a G90 in the near future, and I plan on using Terry. The way I see it is this:

warranty- a good reseller will work with you after the sell to fix any problems.
I know it is not the same as a factory warranty, but I am more than
happy to have Terry work on my unit in house. I know he won't
be satisfied until the job is done right, and he has always been
entirely reasonable in regards to price.
yes and no - if I was lucky enough to live within an hour or two of one of the well-known and respected resellers, for sure - I would take Curt, Terry, or anyone I am forgetting, over Sony or Sanyo tech support.

But for some reason, by living in the middle of America, rather than having an advantage of being centrally located, instead I am equidistant from everyone :(
I am semi-technically capable, but I wouldn't want to get in a part swapping, long-distance diagnosis of a crt problem. Having a unit that can be CHEAPLY boxed and shipped to a service center has to count for something. - not to mention the hot swap warrantys that some mfgrs now have.

That doesn't mean I am dumping my 980, nor does it mean I won't buy a nice 9" if they get in my price range, but warranty and ease of service can be a valid consideration.
post #62 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingvee
Having a unit that can be CHEAPLY boxed and shipped to a service center has to count for something. - not to mention the hot swap warrantys that some mfgrs now have.
I think this is only true for the people that absolutely positively don't want to do anything themselves. I'm not by any of the techs, but diagnostic procedures have not been too hard for me to do, nor are board swaps. In fact, most part swaps are pretty easy.

I agree that is it off-putting to many, but it need not be. If you are willing to put in the effort and do a full set up, then the effort for diagnostic and repair isn't that much worse.

Dave
post #63 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
There may be other issues, but SDE even at 720p isn't one of them.
I just reread this, were you talking about PQ issues or the fun issues the owners get to live with like dust blobs and stuck pixels?

Dave
post #64 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99
One other thing ebr which may or may not be a deal killer. Assuming you don't like judder in your film viewing, good luck finding one of these cheap digital PJs that will do 72 Hz!
I'm not sure people would consider it cheap (at under $4k), but the Optoma H78DC3 will do 48Hz and that is basically as good as 72Hz on a digital (since they don't flicker at 48Hz likes CRTs). As far as 72Hz and the main subject of this thread, I don't believe the G90 can do 1080/72p, but it looks like the Ruby will be able to play 1080/48p (which again won't flicker like it does on G90s). if it is fed 1080/24psf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99
I just reread this, were you talking about PQ issues or the fun issues the owners get to live with like dust blobs and stuck pixels?
Nothing really particular, but mostly just that there are other PQ differences other than SDE. I saw an AE900 the other day and it still didn't have the ANSI CR of DLPs or the on/off CR of CRTs, but it wasn't really calibrated and I will be getting one and checking to see how it does after proper setup.

And I don't consider the stuck pixel issue to be big if you just buy from a place with a guarantee in the first few hours to check for stuck pixels and things like that. My impression is that pixels that become stuck later on aren't any more common than CRT tubes going bad prematurely and probably less common than that. The only stuck pixel issues I've seen were there at hour zero.

--Darin
post #65 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
I saw an AE900 the other day
OT here, and I'll try to check the threads "over there", but did you get a chance to tell if they fixed the vertical banding issues of the 700?

Dave
post #66 of 845
So what's better, crt's or digitals?
post #67 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99
OT here, and I'll try to check the threads "over there", but did you get a chance to tell if they fixed the vertical banding issues of the 700?
I think it is unit to unit, but the 2 I've seen were way better than any previous Panasonics I had seen in this area. I didn't see any on the unit at CEDIA and this last one looked pretty acceptable to me, although there was some slight banding on the green channel. In the past I've been baffled as to why other people didn't see this problem when I did and I may have started the big VB uproar on the <$3.5k forum when I got the AE500 and reported on it, so I am somebody who tends to see it and I think they've gotten much better. But some people still would have been bothered by the amount on this last one.

And somebody else just reported seeing it on their's. We have gone from a time when few people saw it even on units that were bad to people specifically looking for it on the most difficult patterns and probably finding even the slightest amounts. Kind of like looking for colorshift with CRTs even on 1.3 gain screens by putting up a white pattern.

--Darin
post #68 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by raster
So what's better, crt's or digitals?
Digitals. WAY, WAY better. Here's about nine hundred for you to pick from:
http://search.*********/search/searc...trypage=search
post #69 of 845
I can't view Digital threads in the CRT forum. It's against the rules.
You trying to get me into trouble? :mad:




Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley
Digitals. WAY, WAY better. Here's about nine hundred for you to pick from:
http://search.*********/search/searc...trypage=search
post #70 of 845
Well, this discussion has probably gone about as far as it can (for my purposes) at this time without degrading into the topic that raster threw out there :). So, thanks everyone for their insight and experience.

I'll have to be sure I build the room to accomodate another CRT so I can go either way when the time comes. (looks like I'm probably staying on the dark side but who knows what may happen in several months).
post #71 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr
Also, with the Ruby the $10k is only the beginning - you also need a scaler.
I just noticed this. For one thing, $10k is the MSRP and I doubt most people who frequent a place like this will be MSRP. And as far as a scaler, some people might want one (especially for mosquito noise reduction or the like), but the jury is still out on how necessary one will be as the Ruby of course does scaling internally. Especially if BluRay puts out 1080/24psf for films and 1080/60p for video and a person is mostly going to be concerned with those after BluRay is available. In those cases I don't see an external scaler buying people much other than more connnections or features for their other sources. But a scaler that takes DVD film or 1080i film to 1080/24psf would likely be very nice with a Ruby for D-Theater and other material in the meantime for those who want to spend more money for those options. They just don't look as necessary as scaling with a CRT to me given that the Ruby comes with one internally.

--Darin
post #72 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by raster
I can't view Digital threads in the CRT forum. It's against the rules.
You trying to get me into trouble? :mad:

Yep :D
post #73 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFerret
So, from this the ignorant should take away from your points that the G90:

- Needs a warranty
- Complex to use
- Is dim, even compared to a 500-hour G90 vs. Ruby condition
- The digital input card is urban legend and not a realty
- Too loud
- Has convergence issues

I read your words and intereted as such.

Jeez, you ask for reasons, then when you get them you lambast me? I didn't say that these points outweigh the virtues of a G90. I do maintain they are valid points. I spent the evening watching my 1292. Maybe you should spend more time watching your projector and less implying things from innocuous answers to a question you posed! :(

James
post #74 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrighthenry
These are valid points, but I think they can be worked around. The key in my opinion is buying the G90 from a good reseller. I plan on buying a G90 in the near future, and I plan on using Terry. The way I see it is this:

warranty- a good reseller will work with you after the sell to fix any problems.
I know it is not the same as a factory warranty, but I am more than
happy to have Terry work on my unit in house. I know he won't
be satisfied until the job is done right, and he has always been
entirely reasonable in regards to price.

ease of use- with a good setup, I think this is a moot point. Even my wife can
operate my current CRT with the Pronto remote.

1080p- I have seen 1080p on my 9" CRT and it is stunning. I know it will be
even better on a G90. Is the Ruby going to be that much better?

brightness- I get 9fl from my current 9" machine and never feel lacking.

digital signal path- This is the only thing that slightly worries me. The HDDVD
dilemma. I am confident though that if HDCP is enacted on
component signals, someone will have a work around.

quietness- my current 9" CRT does not bother me with sound. If it did, I would
build a hushbox.

convergence- All about the setup. I have only touched my convergence once in
the past six months.

I know the digitals are getting really good now, and I think that is great. But as long as we still have machines like the G90 and reliable, experienced resellers like Terry, Curt, and Tim, I am sticking with CRT. Just my .02 cents.


Yup, I'll be sticking with my 9"er and Torus screen combo for at least the next few years too. At the same time, I will embrace and encourage any technology that will give me a better cinimatic experience. For me that is what is important.


James
post #75 of 845
A couple of the guys are coming over on thursday night with an Optoma and a Panasonic to compare and play with........

Looking foward to seeing how well the G70 stacks up to the newer digitals. As well, looking foward to the comments from the attendees :D

Still trying to figure out how in the hell I'm going to get my sources hooked up to these little digital BASTARDS!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Cliff
post #76 of 845
HTPC will be easy.
And the DVHS and DVR have HD component out.

Did you catch the last 10 minutes of the Stratocaster Tribute on HDNet? David Gilmour (preceded by Joe Walsh) in HD. Sch-weet.
post #77 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
HTPC will be easy.
And the DVHS and DVR have HD component out.

Did you catch the last 10 minutes of the Stratocaster Tribute on HDNet? David Gilmour (preceded by Joe Walsh) in HD. Sch-weet.
Hi Clarence,
I missed that :( Did you by any chance record it ? Two of my favorites ! I met Joe once in concert at Kalamazoo Michigan back in the 70's back stage with some roadie friends that worked for Ted Nugent .He was on his "Barnstorm" tour. Now what was that we smoked ? :cool:
post #78 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
HTPC will be easy.
And the DVHS and DVR have HD component out.

Did you catch the last 10 minutes of the Stratocaster Tribute on HDNet? David Gilmour (preceded by Joe Walsh) in HD. Sch-weet.
Ahhhhh yes my friend, but the damn length of my audio rack to where these little damn bastards will be located is the hard part. :D

PLEASE PLEASE tell me you recorded Gilmour??

P.S. Did I tell you that I'm going to see Aussie on Nov. 4th??? Sch-WEET ;)

Cliff
post #79 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr
PLEASE PLEASE tell me you recorded Gilmour??
Ummm... :D

Quote:
P.S. Did I tell you that I'm going to see Aussie on Nov. 4th??? Sch-WEET ;)
We're gonna go see U2 the week before... that's a tough call... I've been a huge U2 fan for 25 years, but I might trade it for an Aussie Floyd ticket.
post #80 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
We're gonna go see U2 the week before... that's a tough call... I've been a huge U2 fan for 25 years, but I might trade it for an Aussie Floyd ticket.
Me too on the U2 big dog. Absolutely have been jamming to them for a very long time. I remember the T-tops on the multiple Trans Am's I've owned being off on the quiet country roads absolutely jamming U2 while the farmers were getting pissed..... With a lady in the car of course. :D

Have fun and I'll be more than happy to bitch to you about the CRAPPY black levels after Thursday. :eek:

This is going to be a fun week. Check out the digitals, compare to the G70, and head to Art's this weekend for some serious HT lovin'.......

Cliff
post #81 of 845
Take the tubes out of your G70 and all of the boards. Fill empty space with bricks.

Loosen all ceiling mount bolts so only 1/4 turn is into the studs.

Place digitals under said Sony. Have kids jump in room over ceiling bracket.

Look horrified at digital owners and gracefully offer to clean up their mess.

:)
post #82 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr
A couple of the guys are coming over on thursday night with a Optoma and a Panasonic to compare and play with........

Looking foward to seeing how well the G70 stacks up to the newer digitals. As well, looking foward to the comments from the attendees :D

Still trying to figure out how in the hell I'm going to get my sources hooked up to these little digital BASTARDS!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
What models are they? If it is the Optoma H79 or H78DC3 then it can take 1280x720@48Hz from the PC. It is also likely that the black and white levels wouldn't be setup right from the PC if going to the DVI input and would require some setup. I personally think the DVI input on the H79 is better than the component input, but you could use that connection from the DVHS deck and DVR. That would likely require setup of the brightness and contrast at a minimum also. I also think those projectors benefit from a CC20R filter and then proper calibration for that, but I understand that this is probably more than is reasonable for you to do and if the owners haven't set things up then you mostly just have to deal with that.

Is the Panasonic the AE900? I just measured one at 23 ft-lamberts from the center seat off of an almost 12' wide High Power screen, but it wasn't really calibrated. I think that one also likely calls for a color filter to look it's best and I would probably dim it down with an ND2 filter or something like that.

I understand that it isn't reasonable for you to go to even close to as much effort to get these setup as it was for your G70, but I hope this doesn't turn out to be another, "They were too bright, therefore they suck" kind of thing. People around here should understand enough to know how invalid those things are at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
We're gonna go see U2 the week before... that's a tough call... I've been a huge U2 fan for 25 years, but I might trade it for an Aussie Floyd ticket.
You might want to check this out:

Conan O'Brien to Turn Entire Show Over to U2 Thursday 10/6/05!

--Darin
post #83 of 845
Well it could be worse, it could be Ashlee Simpson.

:)
post #84 of 845
Remember to view lots of full black frames!!!
post #85 of 845
Hey,

Since the Floyd stuff seems to have cropped up in this thread I thought I would give a heads up that today the Pulse DVD has been announced for Dec 5. (It's gonna be real hard to wait till x-mass so that I can get this one as a gift but you gotta do stuff like that sometimes.)





-B
post #86 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
HTPC will be easy.
And the DVHS and DVR have HD component out.
You're probably going to have to pull some equipment out of the rack and set it up in the back of the room.

The d!%!#@|s' throw distance is probably much longer and your current ceiling cables probably won't reach that far back.

OBTW, did I tell you I dropped VLC? On my laptop I use ZP and on my HTPC I use the DVD player that came with Nero Suite. Both playback .ts files without the jitter/judder that VLC had.
post #87 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
What models are they? If it is the Optoma H79 or H78DC3 then it can take 1280x720@48Hz from the PC. It is also likely that the black and white levels wouldn't be setup right from the PC if going to the DVI input and would require some setup. I personally think the DVI input on the H79 is better than the component input, but you could use that connection from the DVHS deck and DVR. That would likely require setup of the brightness and contrast at a minimum also. I also think those projectors benefit from a CC20R filter and then proper calibration for that, but I understand that this is probably more than is reasonable for you to do and if the owners haven't set things up then you mostly just have to deal with that.

Is the Panasonic the AE900? I just measured one at 23 ft-lamberts from the center seat off of an almost 12' wide High Power screen, but it wasn't really calibrated. I think that one also likely calls for a color filter to look it's best and I would probably dim it down with an ND2 filter or something like that.

I understand that it isn't reasonable for you to go to even close to as much effort to get these setup as it was for your G70, but I hope this doesn't turn out to be another, "They were too bright, therefore they suck" kind of thing. People around here should understand enough to know how invalid those things are at this point.


--Darin
I promise Darin to try REALLY hard not to BASH the digitals..... :eek: :D :eek: :D

Cliff
post #88 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
You're probably going to have to pull some equipment out of the rack and set it up in the back of the room.

The d!%!#@|s' throw distance is probably much longer and your current ceiling cables probably won't reach that far back.

OBTW, did I tell you I dropped VLC? On my laptop I use ZP and on my HTPC I use the DVD player that came with Nero Suite. Both playback .ts files without the jitter/judder that VLC had.
I tried ZP a while ago and couldn't get the damn audio to work. I've also had Nero Showtime on my HTPC for a while now and playback is good with both but showtime gives me audio issues as well.

I'm sure eventually that .ts playback will get popular enough that somebody will have a bug free player in all aspects. Looking foward to that day.

Cliff
post #89 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton
Hey,

Since the Floyd stuff seems to have cropped up in this thread I thought I would give a heads up that today the Pulse DVD has been announced for Dec 5. (It's gonna be real hard to wait till x-mass so that I can get this one as a gift but you gotta do stuff like that sometimes.)

From the Brain Damage Site..

PINK FLOYD PULSE DVD FINALLY ANNOUNCED

-B
It's about time. Only a freakin year late!! I've been waiting a while for this one. :)

Cliff
post #90 of 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semisentient
Jeez, you ask for reasons, then when you get them you lambast me? I didn't say that these points outweigh the virtues of a G90. I do maintain they are valid points. I spent the evening watching my 1292. Maybe you should spend more time watching your projector and less implying things from innocuous answers to a question you posed! :(

James
Why are you taking this personally? I played the Devil's Advocate. If the reasons you offered, which I asked for, are not made to be countered in a calm, logical discussion then I am sorry you posted at all. If you would like I'll go delete my response and leave it at that.

Again, sorry that I did not notice you were not allowing your post to be open for discussion. :eek:
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