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Wharfedale Owners Thread - Page 34

post #991 of 1291
I’m strongly considering upgrading my Diamond 9.1 speakers with a pair of Evo2-8 that tsto has for $299/pr. My current system is rather small consisting of the 9.1s standmounted as my front L & R, a Diamond 9.cc as the center channel, a Diamond SW150 sub, and a pair of Diamond WH-2 dipoles for the surrounds. The system is driven by a Denon 1909 AVR. I have a Denon 2010CI for playing movies (over HDMI) and CDs (via analog out). My usage is probably 60% music and 40% home theater. I have the following questions:

1. I’ve read that the Evo2-8 has less bass output than the Diamond 9.1. If my crossover with the sub is set at 80Hz in the AVR will it make much difference in the bass I hear?

2. How well will the Evo2-8 timbre match the Diamond 9.cc?

3. How much of an improvement in sound quality can I expect from the Evo2-8 considering the rest of my setup? What type of improvements would I hear. I usually listen to jazz, blues, world, and adult contemporary and typically at moderate volume (-25db for HT and -30 db for music).

I'm trying to determine if the $299 would be worth it and trying to explain to the wife what the additional $299 would buy us.
post #992 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post

I'm strongly considering upgrading my Diamond 9.1 speakers with a pair of Evo2-8 that tsto has for $299/pr. My current system is rather small consisting of the 9.1s standmounted as my front L & R, a Diamond 9.cc as the center channel, a Diamond SW150 sub, and a pair of Diamond WH-2 dipoles for the surrounds. The system is driven by a Denon 1909 AVR. I have a Denon 2010CI for playing movies (over HDMI) and CDs (via analog out). My usage is probably 60% music and 40% home theater. I have the following questions:

1. I've read that the Evo2-8 has less bass output than the Diamond 9.1. If my crossover with the sub is set at 80Hz in the AVR will it make much difference in the bass I hear?

2. How well will the Evo2-8 timbre match the Diamond 9.cc?

3. How much of an improvement in sound quality can I expect from the Evo2-8 considering the rest of my setup? What type of improvements would I hear. I usually listen to jazz, blues, world, and adult contemporary and typically at moderate volume (-25db for HT and -30 db for music).

I'm trying to determine if the $299 would be worth it and trying to explain to the wife what the additional $299 would buy us.

I have upgraded the exact same setup as you have. So I will make a few comments to help you in your decision.

1. The EVO2-8's do have less bass, however they sound more natural, if you are using a subwoofer - you will not notice a difference, although I'd raise the crossover to 100.

2. It doesn't match it very well, I upgraded to a EVO1-Center, they still have them on ebay for pretty cheap. The sensitivity of the EVO2's are a little higher, so the center channel will get muffled out. I used the Diamond Center for about a week, and while it wasn't TERRIBLE or anything, it just lost a lot of low level details, especially in dyanmic passages.

3. This kind of an upgrade would give you better results depending on what receiver you are using. The wharfedale's are pretty power hungry, even the small guys. Unless your receiver has a beefy amp section, I'd look into upgrading to a external power amplifier first. Especially if your receiver has preouts. The UPA-5 I think is on sale right now from Emotiva.

All power requirments aside, the EVO2 is a very good loudspeaker for that price, and shines mostly in the music genres you mentioned.

To me, it's a no brainer.
post #993 of 1291
OK, so dumb questions time. That price, as not mentioned above, is pretty damn good for a 5 channel amp.

I have the following setup:

Onkyo 805 driving things (Burr Brown DACs)
2 Evo 1, 40s Front
1 Evo CS
4 Evo 10s for the rears.

Would the UPA5 make a real difference to the sound?
Should I drive the the CS as well, or just the fronts?

Considering the price difference between the 2 and the 5, if I jumped, it would be for the 5. Just need that little push....

Seggers
post #994 of 1291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

OK, so dumb questions time. That price, as not mentioned above, is pretty damn good for a 5 channel amp.

I have the following setup:

Onkyo 805 driving things (Burr Brown DACs)
2 Evo 1, 40s Front
1 Evo CS
4 Evo 10s for the rears.

Would the UPA5 make a real difference to the sound?
Should I drive the the CS as well, or just the fronts?

Considering the price difference between the 2 and the 5, if I jumped, it would be for the 5. Just need that little push....

Seggers

Hey seggers long time no talk, i was the other one who had all the UPS issues with wild west so glad to see you still have them. I have the exact same setup as you but I am using a pioneer elite sc-05. I recently upgraded to the XPA-3 which is all you really need. It increased the depth of sound from the evo's and really opened them up especially at reference level, it seemed that they were straining pretty bad with just the amp section of my pioneer but now that is gone . I also have a UPA-2 powering a pair of evo 10's in my 2 channel room and it does a great job of powering them as well much better than my old cambridge audio integrated ever did. I would have to say that the XPA series of amps is better for home theater and the UPA series is better for musical purposes but you can't go wrong with either. Hope this helps!
post #995 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmoney80 View Post

Hey seggers long time no talk, i was the other one who had all the UPS issues with wild west so glad to see you still have them. I have the exact same setup as you but I am using a pioneer elite sc-05. I recently upgraded to the XPA-3 which is all you really need. It increased the depth of sound from the evo's and really opened them up especially at reference level, it seemed that they were straining pretty bad with just the amp section of my pioneer but now that is gone . I also have a UPA-2 powering a pair of evo 10's in my 2 channel room and it does a great job of powering them as well much better than my old cambridge audio integrated ever did. I would have to say that the XPA series of amps is better for home theater and the UPA series is better for musical purposes but you can't go wrong with either. Hope this helps!

Gmoney80, long time,

After the fun I had getting a matching pair of 40s (I went through something like 5 seperate speakers before being done), there's no sure fire way I'm going to get rid of them!

I wasn't really going to do an amp, I was kind of dead set against them, but the price of that UPA-5 has me trying to scratch the upgrade itch.....

So I have a couple more questions then:

1. What type of RCA cable did you use to connect the pioneer to the XPA? I have some gold plated ones lying around, or do I need to rush out and buy argon infused ones?
2. Did you bi-wire your 40s and if so by the serial or parallel method? I currently have mine bi-wired from the speaker terminal that attaches to the 805.

I am this close to clicking on 'buy'....

Seggers
post #996 of 1291
I had a NAD 7 ch amp powering my system off my Yamaha receiver. It was basically a complete waste of power for all but the front 2 mains. On those it made a significant difference. For the most part though you won't use all that power for surrounds and even center. If you do get the 5 ch amp, biamp your fronts with 4 of the channels and 5th channel for center and let the receiver run the surrounds.

Yeah, those are great deals on the Evo 8's and 10's right now. They are a great sounding speaker.
post #997 of 1291
An ebay seller was offering new pairs of Evo2-30s for $500, I snagged a pair.
post #998 of 1291
Thread Starter 
yeah those are from lanemart, he has been selling cheap wharfedales on the bay for years. Great seller congrats on that price that is amazing
post #999 of 1291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

Gmoney80, long time,

After the fun I had getting a matching pair of 40s (I went through something like 5 seperate speakers before being done), there's no sure fire way I'm going to get rid of them!

I wasn't really going to do an amp, I was kind of dead set against them, but the price of that UPA-5 has me trying to scratch the upgrade itch.....

So I have a couple more questions then:

1. What type of RCA cable did you use to connect the pioneer to the XPA? I have some gold plated ones lying around, or do I need to rush out and buy argon infused ones?
2. Did you bi-wire your 40s and if so by the serial or parallel method? I currently have mine bi-wired from the speaker terminal that attaches to the 805.

I am this close to clicking on 'buy'....

Seggers

I am just using cheap monprice rca gold plated cables to connect to my amp. I am also biwiring my speakers using monoprice bi wire cable from the speakers directly to the amp speaker plugs.
post #1000 of 1291
You're right, he is a great seller, the speakers were new in the box!!

post #1001 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogozhin View Post

You're right, he is a great seller, the speakers were new in the box!!


Nice setup. Where did you get that equipement stand thats left of the TV?

Seggers
post #1002 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

Nice setup. Where did you get that equipement stand thats left of the TV?

Seggers

Thanks The stand is a Salamander Archetype 5.0 in cherry:

http://www.salamanderdesigns.com/arc...p?modelbase=a5

I was able to get a good deal off audioadvisor's clearance page ($200 for a $500 stand).
post #1003 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakar80124 View Post

I had a NAD 7 ch amp powering my system off my Yamaha receiver. It was basically a complete waste of power for all but the front 2 mains. On those it made a significant difference. For the most part though you won't use all that power for surrounds and even center. If you do get the 5 ch amp, biamp your fronts with 4 of the channels and 5th channel for center and let the receiver run the surrounds.

Yeah, those are great deals on the Evo 8's and 10's right now. They are a great sounding speaker.

OK, I'm going to be real dense here and ask how you did that. Looking at my 805's manual, I can't spilt the L or R signal into 2 and I don't seem to be able to find a 1 to 2 RCA cable, in order to use ports 1,2 for L, 3,4 for R and 5 for C.

Or I just don't know what to search for.....

Edit: Never mind. A little Googling later and I have 2 RCA 1 Male to 2 Female connectors winging their way to me, from the e of bay. Plus I found some spare legs for the equipement stand, so I think my next stop is to actually order the beast and then explain to the wife....

However, for those of you where who have an external amp, do you put fans on it or not?

Seggers
post #1004 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulrider4ever View Post

I have upgraded the exact same setup as you have. So I will make a few comments to help you in your decision.

1. The EVO2-8's do have less bass, however they sound more natural, if you are using a subwoofer - you will not notice a difference, although I'd raise the crossover to 100.

2. It doesn't match it very well, I upgraded to a EVO1-Center, they still have them on ebay for pretty cheap. The sensitivity of the EVO2's are a little higher, so the center channel will get muffled out. I used the Diamond Center for about a week, and while it wasn't TERRIBLE or anything, it just lost a lot of low level details, especially in dyanmic passages.

3. This kind of an upgrade would give you better results depending on what receiver you are using. The wharfedale's are pretty power hungry, even the small guys. Unless your receiver has a beefy amp section, I'd look into upgrading to a external power amplifier first. Especially if your receiver has preouts. The UPA-5 I think is on sale right now from Emotiva.

All power requirments aside, the EVO2 is a very good loudspeaker for that price, and shines mostly in the music genres you mentioned.

To me, it's a no brainer.

Thanks very much for answering my questions. As far as powering them up, I think my AVR does a pretty decent job with the 9.1s and the Evos are 87db sensitivity (vs. 86db) so it shouldn't be a problem. However, if I'm going to need to upgrade the center channel then $299 becomes a half a G and that makes my argument for upgrade all the less compelling to the wife. I think I'm going to have to sit this one out and wait.
post #1005 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post

I’m strongly considering upgrading my Diamond 9.1 speakers with a pair of Evo2-8 that tsto has for $299/pr. My current system is rather small consisting of the 9.1s standmounted as my front L & R, a Diamond 9.cc as the center channel, a Diamond SW150 sub, and a pair of Diamond WH-2 dipoles for the surrounds. The system is driven by a Denon 1909 AVR. I have a Denon 2010CI for playing movies (over HDMI) and CDs (via analog out). My usage is probably 60% music and 40% home theater. I have the following questions:

1. I’ve read that the Evo2-8 has less bass output than the Diamond 9.1. If my crossover with the sub is set at 80Hz in the AVR will it make much difference in the bass I hear?

2. How well will the Evo2-8 timbre match the Diamond 9.cc?

3. How much of an improvement in sound quality can I expect from the Evo2-8 considering the rest of my setup? What type of improvements would I hear. I usually listen to jazz, blues, world, and adult contemporary and typically at moderate volume (-25db for HT and -30 db for music).

I'm trying to determine if the $299 would be worth it and trying to explain to the wife what the additional $299 would buy us.

Actually the Evo2 8's go lower than the Diamond 9.1 their just cleaner and they dont have the hump in bass,the Evo2 8's is a big step up,their on a whole new level,at $299 their the best buy in audio i could'nt believe the difference when i had both of them in my room.
post #1006 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post

Thanks very much for answering my questions. As far as powering them up, I think my AVR does a pretty decent job with the 9.1s and the Evos are 87db sensitivity (vs. 86db) so it shouldn't be a problem. However, if I'm going to need to upgrade the center channel then $299 becomes a half a G and that makes my argument for upgrade all the less compelling to the wife. I think I'm going to have to sit this one out and wait.

Just grab the EVO2's now and upgrade the center for Christmas
post #1007 of 1291
post #1008 of 1291
Thread Starter 
Here's a couple picks from this weekends rocky mountain audio fest. They had the opus speakers hooked up to vincent amps and it sounded absolutely amazing.


post #1009 of 1291
^^ awesome, any more info on the model of amps used? Seems like these Opus love the Class A into A/B where they can suck up lots of power.

Also, how did they sound in comparison to some other models out there?
post #1010 of 1291
Thread Starter 
They were running off of a vincent sp-331 mk according to my notes. I went into quite a few rooms and the only speakers that were close to being on the same level were some salks and von schweikert's the opus sound incredible if powered correctly.
post #1011 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmoney80 View Post

They were running off of a vincent sp-331 mk according to my notes. I went into quite a few rooms and the only speakers that were close to being on the same level were some salks and von schweikert's the opus sound incredible if powered correctly.

Nice, I'm willing to bet those cost more, or at least had more expensive electronics, the vincent is only a $1200 stereo amp.

I know the XPA-1's I just got are stunning, I won't be making any changes in the amp dept. for years to come.
post #1012 of 1291
Are these two Opus models the Opus 1 (V2) and Opus 3 (V2) models?

Or are these some new version three (V3) Opus models?
post #1013 of 1291
Do you have any links to a thread or more info on this audio fest? Would like to read what folks there had to say. Thanks in advance.

BTW I just got a new Denon 4311 AV receiver with the new Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 calibration system and it did one heck of a job in calibrating my system. I have Opus 2 (Gen 1) front right, left and center and Opus Evo2 10's surrounds along with an SVS PC Ultra sub. I had a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver and a NAD C272 two channel amp driving the FL and FR. I was using two Behringer DEQ 2496 digital EQ's to EQ the fronts, center and sub along with a Velodyne SMS-1 EQ for addtional EQ of the sub. The Behringer's have a real time spectrum analyzer and produce a pink noise signal. They each have dual 1/3 octave (31 band) controls plus dual 10 band parametric controls. You do have to use 5.1 analog cabling to use them tho so my whole system was 5.1 analog. I had every channel except the two side surrounds EQ'd flat +/- about 1-2db.

Using the new 4311 I went HDMI and it does an auto EQ set up of all channels including up to two subs. I still have the NAD driving the two fronts using pre out from the Denon. I stripped out the Behringers but kept the Velodyne SMS-1 in my set up. I didn't think the 4311 would make that much of an audible sonic difference but it did. My system overall sounds much better with the surround field having a much better immersion to it. My side surrounds sound like different speakers. My system's low frequency sound is much tighter and just more impressive. In the past I've measured my sub output and it produces bass down to 16Hz where it rapidly drops off. There was no apparent loss of this low bass. I did a listen to the blu-ray of Spielberg's War of the Worlds (which has bass down to 10Hz and is my demo of choice for bass) and it still rocks the walls but has lost any looseness that I experienced before with that sort of bass.

Bottom line is I would whole heartedly recommend any AVR that offers the new Audyssey MultiEQ XT32. This Denon 4311 has fantastic sound once it's calibrated. There are a few other AVR's that are currently offering this new Audyssey and I expect they also perform similarly.
post #1014 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmoney80 View Post

They were running off of a vincent sp-331 mk according to my notes. I went into quite a few rooms and the only speakers that were close to being on the same level were some salks and von schweikert's the opus sound incredible if powered correctly.

I've been saying that for years.

You should hear how the Opus speakers sound with McIntosh amps/preamps.

Simply fantastic.
post #1015 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceTBC View Post

Do you have any links to a thread or more info on this audio fest? Would like to read what folks there had to say. Thanks in advance.

BTW I just got a new Denon 4311 AV receiver with the new Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 calibration system and it did one heck of a job in calibrating my system. I have Opus 2 (Gen 1) front right, left and center and Opus Evo2 10's surrounds along with an SVS PC Ultra sub. I had a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver and a NAD C272 two channel amp driving the FL and FR. I was using two Behringer DEQ 2496 digital EQ's to EQ the fronts, center and sub along with a Velodyne SMS-1 EQ for addtional EQ of the sub. The Behringer's have a real time spectrum analyzer and produce a pink noise signal. They each have dual 1/3 octave (31 band) controls plus dual 10 band parametric controls. You do have to use 5.1 analog cabling to use them tho so my whole system was 5.1 analog. I had every channel except the two side surrounds EQ'd flat +/- about 1-2db.

Using the new 4311 I went HDMI and it does an auto EQ set up of all channels including up to two subs. I still have the NAD driving the two fronts using pre out from the Denon. I stripped out the Behringers but kept the Velodyne SMS-1 in my set up. I didn't think the 4311 would make that much of an audible sonic difference but it did. My system overall sounds much better with the surround field having a much better immersion to it. My side surrounds sound like different speakers. My system's low frequency sound is much tighter and just more impressive. In the past I've measured my sub output and it produces bass down to 16Hz where it rapidly drops off. There was no apparent loss of this low bass. I did a listen to the blu-ray of Spielberg's War of the Worlds (which has bass down to 10Hz and is my demo of choice for bass) and it still rocks the walls but has lost any looseness that I experienced before with that sort of bass.

Bottom line is I would whole heartedly recommend any AVR that offers the new Audyssey MultiEQ XT32. This Denon 4311 has fantastic sound once it's calibrated. There are a few other AVR's that are currently offering this new Audyssey and I expect they also perform similarly.

I have a very similar setup with the Opus 2's in front and Evo 10 surrounds, along with a pair of Evo DFS backs. Except I have an older weak Klipsch sub that I would love to replace. But instead of the Denon I just got the Yamaha RX-A3000 and with its YPAO, it did a great job of setting up my room and the bass is much improved and the Yamaha Parametric eq adds a lot of depth to music. The video processing is suberb as well.
I was using a NAD amp on my old Yamaha V663 receiver, but the A3000 has quite enough power that I sold my amp and running 7 speakers off the AVR. I am going to add 2 front presence speakers and try that out. Problem I have is my front speaker placement - my L & R speakers are far apart.
post #1016 of 1291
Most reviews I've read along with many comments I've read from recognized professionals seem to feel adding front wides to an existing 5.1 or 7.1 set up is the way to go before adding front height speakers (or presence speakers as they are sometimes called). In fact most seem to comment the wides add more to the sound immersion, especially of music, than the rears used to get 7.1.

Part of this is because front wides take their sound from the front left and rights which have a lot of sound coming from them most all the time while rears usually (unless you have a 7.1 recording which is rare to find even in movies) derive their sound from the side surrounds which usually don't have a lot of sound use, at least compared to your fronts. Front wides are said to really noticeably expand the width of your sound stage while front heights, for the most part, only see much use when sounds are recorded to move front to back or vice versa.

Bottom line is most folks experienced with these extended set ups recommend, when moving from 5.1, to first add front wides, then either front heights or rears. I've not had personal experience with these extended set ups but this is what I've been reading for maybe the past year now.
post #1017 of 1291
Thread Starter 
Unfortunately i'm not sure about a specific forum but here is the site for the show http://audiofest.net/2010/index.php . They should have a picture gallery up soon. They were the Opus version 2. Whats even more amazing is that the smaller ones were the ones hooked up to the vincent amps and everyone that was coming in was like man those speakers sound pretty good and the wharfedale rep was like "that sound is coming out of the smaller ones" and you should have seen the jaws drop when he announced that even I was surprised. I mean they were hooked up to some expensive gear but they were amazing. Oh and by the way if you didn't already have it below is the info for the US wharfedale distributor.

sound import
walter schofield
v.p. sales and marketing
14a rosenfeld dr
hopedale, MA 01747
508-422-9788
walter@soundimport.com
post #1018 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceTBC View Post

Most reviews I've read along with many comments I've read from recognized professionals seem to feel adding front wides to an existing 5.1 or 7.1 set up is the way to go before adding front height speakers (or presence speakers as they are sometimes called). In fact most seem to comment the wides add more to the sound immersion, especially of music, than the rears used to get 7.1.

Part of this is because front wides take their sound from the front left and rights which have a lot of sound coming from them most all the time while rears usually (unless you have a 7.1 recording which is rare to find even in movies) derive their sound from the side surrounds which usually don't have a lot of sound use, at least compared to your fronts. Front wides are said to really noticeably expand the width of your sound stage while front heights, for the most part, only see much use when sounds are recorded to move front to back or vice versa.

Bottom line is most folks experienced with these extended set ups recommend, when moving from 5.1, to first add front wides, then either front heights or rears. I've not had personal experience with these extended set ups but this is what I've been reading for maybe the past year now.

Front Wide speakers is an Audyssey only feature isn't it? I don't see anything in Dolby or Yamaha that describes those. But adding front height (presence) and wide speakers would be setting up 7 speakers in front. There would be some redundancy. Certainly that many speakers would sound good for a movie if setup correctly. I have nowhere to put that many speakers.
The difference sound modes would use them differently. Yamaha DSP only calls for adding front presence speakers (on top the 7.2 setup) with their receivers (and optional rear height presence speakers too).
post #1019 of 1291
I'm frankly not sure if front wides are an Audyssey only feature or not. Here are a couple of links from (yes) Audyssey on the subject.

http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dsx.html
http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05...surround-sound

Here is a link to a post from a user on the new 4311 thread on AVS who has been using 11.2 for a bit and just got the 4311. This post is obviously just his opinion but it's from someone who has been using extra speaker set ups and has an extensive system both in number of speakers as well as components (amps in particular).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post19349046

Pics of some of his system: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post19341974

If you want you can search for more posts just in that thread from him and probably others talking about using extended speaker set ups.
post #1020 of 1291
I was looking on Audiogon and saw a pair of XPA-1’s and worked out a deal so I could ‘demo’ them and compare it to the Aleph 5, then buy one and sell the other.

My setup is simple. Laptop > M2tech hiface BNC > Matrix mini-I DAC > XPA-1’s I am not using a bnc cable, but an adapter – to plug directly into the matrix dac.

I went through my usual regime of music, and heard a difference immediately.

For starters, guitars sounded considerably more realistic. The dynamics and fullness of the full guitar was much more present.
Drums especially just came to life; I realized I was really missing out on the low end with the Aleph. The OpusII-3’s are very power hungry despite their 91db sensitivity rating.

Channel separation and instruments came to life and all had their own space, it was really amazing to hear the same tracks I always listen to produce new low level details the Aleph just missed completely *SHOCKER*

When the volume goes up, it sounds like you are sitting at the concert and listening to live music.

The male vocals carried a bit more depth. Female vocals I would still say the Aleph won out – it’s midrange is to die for with female vocals. However, when you consider the full range speakers being used with 10” woofers, the raw power given to these speakers really allows ALL of the music to come through and come through with full force and effect.

I know the review isn’t as detailed as others, but these amps are just better for my speakers. I would say it's more of a speaker amp mismatch than the Aleph not being good enough.

Either way - I'm selling the Aleph 5
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