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Philadelphia, PA - OTA - Page 60

post #1771 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootofjesse View Post

Well... analog was off on 39, but it's back on.

Ya, I saw the same thing. Analog went off just b4 1pm and then came back on not long thereafter. I did a scan after it went off and did not pick up any digital for them. Analog is still broadcasting as of now (~3:05p) so they obviously don't have it together yet. From what I've seen of their crack engineering crew, I'm not surprised. I've often seen stuff that's made me wonder whether anybody is minding the store over there. Seems like the night engineer sleeps on the job a lot cuz he's sure not watching what's goin' out over the air sometimes.
post #1772 of 3803
Still getting analog 39 as of 3:11 PM.

What the heck is on analog 38?

Harry
post #1773 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

That Kenny Gamble interview that T-Max mentioned is still running this morning. Trip, where did you find out about 35.2 on WYBE?

I got an e-mail from someone who I believe is on this forum.

Quote:
When WPPX started running qubo they ran just promos for weeks and weeks before they started airing programs. WPHL 17.2 is just endless promos now. They had music videos for a while (The Tube). Hopefully they'll find something else eventually.

17-2 will pick up "This TV" some time soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

And in fact you can receive a bunch of them FTA right here in Philly if you aim a dish at G18 at 123W, eg WBLU Lexington, KY; KWCE Alexandria LA; WNGS Springville, NY.

Those are not RTN affiliates anymore. (WNGS I know now carries This TV) All the Equity stations are picking up alternative programming. I heard the new RTN feeds are on a different satellite in DVB-S2.

- Trip
post #1774 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

All the affiliates of RTN which are still receiving RTN might disagree with that statement. The one company that horribly mismanaged it and went bankrupt sold it to another company which we can only hope is better managed.

- Trip

Interesting. When I e-mailed them a question, they said they were folding and the affiliates would go dark. Since I live in an area that doesn't receive Retro, I just figured it happened. I didn't know someone else bought them. Thanks for the info.

As for what's going on with WLVT, I have no idea what the deal is. I didn't have time to poke around today. We did get a bit of snow and wind today which might have hampered the tower crew.
post #1775 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by D. R. View Post

Interesting. As for what's going on with WLVT, I have no idea what the deal is. I didn't have time to poke around today. We did get a bit of snow and wind today which might have hampered the tower crew.

They are still analog and still no digital at all (since they shut it down yesterday or was it Thursday?) I just sent off some emails (to Pat Simon, David Smith and others) about the situation and asking for an update.

Let's see if anybody responds.

If WLVT is any indication, this transition should be a real joke and fiasco.

WHENEVER it happens.
post #1776 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

...I just sent off some emails (to Pat Simon, David Smith and others) about the situation and asking for an update. Let's see if anybody responds.

Just got this reply from Pat Simon (or, at least, allegedly from her) -

Hi,

The tower crew has had multiple problems. We are continuing to work to resolve all issues.

Pat Simon


Frankly, I figured she'd be the last one to respond, given that it's a Saturday and all.

The rather curt response might have something to do with my email, which might have been a tad sarcastic.

I still say they didn't do a very good job here. What problems could they be having? They were already broadcasting digital on a different RF and have been doing so for a long time. Seems to me they should have tested the new equipment to make sure it was gonna work, etc (like WHYY did). Speaking of which, did WHYY go off air when they did their digital test? If they didn't, then they were broadcasting digital AND analog @ the same RF at the same time.

So whyy couldn't WLVT do the same thing and run a test?

Obviously, they haven't taken their analog antenna down (which reportedly is on a different tower). I can only assume they canceled that plan because they realized their digital setup wasn't working. So how's come they didn't just announce that they'd be terminating their digital stations on, say, Monday, and be resuming it on the other frequency as soon thereafter as possible.

But no, they chose to make a big stink about how they were "always a little ahead of the curve" and were going to make the transition early. Hah!

Did they not anticipate some possible "tower problems"? I mean, it's freaking January ya know!

This is why I think they are all too representative of a lot of other stations who THINK they've got it together and which will have a rude awakening when they actually go to transition.
post #1777 of 3803
Quote:


Speaking of which, did WHYY go off air when they did their digital test? If they didn't, then they were broadcasting digital AND analog @ the same RF at the same time.

The analog and digital can't co-exist on the same channel. The analog had to be turned off. If they could co-exist, this whole transition would be pointless and there'd be no channel 62.

Quote:


So whyy couldn't WLVT do the same thing and run a test?

Because they have to take the channel 62 antenna off the tower to put up the new channel 39 antenna in its place. WHYY is using their existing analog antenna at low-power until they can replace it with a new antenna for full-power operations.

Quote:


Obviously, they haven't taken their analog antenna down (which reportedly is on a different tower). I can only assume they canceled that plan because they realized their digital setup wasn't working. So how's come they didn't just announce that they'd be terminating their digital stations on, say, Monday, and be resuming it on the other frequency as soon thereafter as possible.

As I understand it, their lease on the tower the analog's on ran out (they're getting kicked off that tower entirely), and now they're co-locating on WFMZ's tower. They have to take down the channel 62 antenna and put a new channel 39 antenna in its place. Unfortunately, we live in a universe where only one object can exist in a particular place at a time.

Quote:


But no, they chose to make a big stink about how they were "always a little ahead of the curve" and were going to make the transition early. Hah!

That's what they're doing. They're transitioning early.

Quote:


Did they not anticipate some possible "tower problems"? I mean, it's freaking January ya know!

Well, they could have just gone off the air entirely on February 17 and then come back on in May. Would that be preferable? That they managed to convince a tower crew to go up on a mountain in Pennsylvania in December (the original plan was to go off the air on Dec 22 and sign back on on Jan 5) is amazing enough, cut them some slack.

Quote:


This is why I think they are all too representative of a lot of other stations who THINK they've got it together and which will have a rude awakening when they actually go to transition.

Other stations aren't trying to juggle antennas. WPVI and WHYY are using their existing antennas, and WCAU has installed a temporary channel 34 antenna at a lower spot on the tower (and I doubt WLVT can afford two antennas like WCAU can).

- Trip
post #1778 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

...because they have to take the channel 62 antenna off the tower to put up the new channel 39 antenna in its place...- Trip

Okay. So why not simply announce that "we are going offline with our present digital channel for a day or two and then we will be back on at a different frequency and we will then be terminating our analog channel on ___"? That's not what Pat Simon said and it's not what their website says. Have you been to their website to see what it says?

Quote:


They have to take down the channel 62 antenna and put a new channel 39 antenna in its place.

Yea, you already said that.

Quote:


Unfortunately, we live in a universe where only one object can exist in a particular place at a time.

Gee, thanks for the heads up on that.

Quote:


That's what they're doing. They're transitioning early.

And doing a piss-poor job of it.

Quote:


Well, they could have just gone off the air entirely on February 17 and then come back on in May. Would that be preferable?

Well, at least if they did that they might have been able to do what they said they were gonna do. And if they did choose to do that, it's their call. All I could do is complain about how stupid it would be.

Quote:


That they managed to convince a tower crew to go up on a mountain in Pennsylvania in December (the original plan was to go off the air on Dec 22 and sign back on on Jan 5) is amazing enough...

Wahhhhh! Excuuuuse me while I go call the wambulance!!

Quote:


...cut them some slack.

Nah!

They did a lousy job -- and I told 'em so. Just like the morons who are running Citibank and BOA and Wall Street and the oil companies and ........

And who ends up paying for it when it goes bust?

Quote:


Other stations aren't trying to juggle antennas. WPVI and WHYY are using their existing antennas, and WCAU has installed a temporary channel 34 antenna at a lower spot on the tower (and I doubt WLVT can afford two antennas like WCAU can).- Trip

So what's your point? Again, should I be calling the wambulance for them?



BTW, they are NOW back up with their new digital setup and might have been even before I put my last post up. Their analog channel is silent. I checked not long after I posted and saw that so I re-scanned and got 'em digitally.
--
Edit: Got a response from the engineering department @ 9pm advising that the problem was: "The transmitter company ran into some problems converting the digital transmitter. We are now transmitting digital on our post-transition channel (39)."

Y'all can decide for yourselves whether I got two different stories or not.
post #1779 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

Okay. So why not simply announce that "we are going offline with our present digital channel for a day or two and then we will be back on at a different frequency and we will then be terminating our analog channel on ___"? That's not what Pat Simon said and it's not what their website says. Have you been to their website to see what it says?

"If you are experiencing difficulty receiving our picture this week, it's most likely because we're rechanneling our digital transmitter and testing it."

I see nothing wrong with what they're saying on the website. It doesn't give any specific dates, knowing that delays could pop up.

Quote:


And doing a piss-poor job of it.

[...]

They did a lousy job -- and I told 'em so. Just like the morons who are running Citibank and BOA and Wall Street and the oil companies and ........

And who ends up paying for it when it goes bust?

I'm glad that you work a job where everything always works and nothing ever goes wrong. I worked IT for 5 summers and no matter how well we thought we planned, things always got delayed worse than expected, even when we included such delays in our estimates.

And this has nothing at all to do with the financial crisis. That was incompetence at best and malicious disregard at worst. This was technical trouble that put them off their schedule.

The transmitter could have blown up trying to put it on the air by their loose deadline. Then they could be off the air for months while a new transmitter is ordered (from the back of the waiting list, of course), but by God, they tried to make T-Max happy!

- Trip
post #1780 of 3803
There's a surprising amount of anger here for a thread about free OTA TV service.
post #1781 of 3803
I'm located 35 miles north of Philadelphia and so far I have been able to connect to 28 channels and subchannels from Philadelphia, Scranton, and Bethlehem using a homemade "coathanger" DB4 attic antenna and the Zenith DTT901 converter box.

I'm new to OTA, but after I realized that this was working I immediately cancelled my cable.

So far I have been unable to receive either of the Fox stations from Philadelphia (WTXF-DT) or Scranton (WOLF-DT). Does anyone know if they are currently transmitting at full power, or if they will be increasing their power when (if) the transition occurs?

Thanks,
Gary
post #1782 of 3803
WTXF is currently operating from an antenna low on their tower. The digital signal is on channel 42, and until yesterday had to protect WLVT analog on 39 (long story). Some time this spring or summer, they will be removing the analog 29 antenna from the top of their tower and moving the digital 42 antenna to the top, which will greatly improve their range and strength.

I hope that helps... =)

- Trip
post #1783 of 3803
The current facility is also directional and relatively weak to the North.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot...81&p360=0.214&

The CP for the top antenna is non-directional, but they have an application for 650kW, which is directional, but not as directional as the above (at least to the North).

If you run a TV Fool plot for your location and click on WTXF, it should show how much power they are running in your direction (It looks like around 54kW from a general plot 35 miles North of Philadelphia). WOLF should be at full power, but is highly obstructed at that location. Which Scranton stations can you receive?
post #1784 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarlsen View Post

There's a surprising amount of anger here for a thread about free OTA TV service.

You got a problem with that? You want a piece of me? You think you could take me?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

...but by God, they tried to make T-Max happy!

- Trip

As they should. And they did (finally!!)

Consistent with TVFool's tool, it appears I am now receiving WLVT stronger. Indeed, I now have my antenna pointed toward the Roxborough farm, where I receive all the Philly stations, and I am still receiving all the "Bethlehem/Allentown" stations (which means WLVT & WFMZ). This is great news but I'm not so sure it's not at least partially because today seems to be ideal weather for it -- clear and calm. Also, it's winter, so there's no effect due to tree leaves. While I would expect to recieve WLVT more strongly now, I don't know if I should be seeing any change in WFMZ's reception (Trip?).

I did a scan and picked up EVERYTHING (except NYC, of course).

Glad to hear that my WTXF reception should also be improving. Now if WHYY will come thru for me, life will indeed be good. And, of course, by God, they should try to make T-Max happy!

FYI, I got another very nice email from Pat Simon who said "we moved from one tower to another tower this week and I was hoping that you were not experiencing the 'cliff effect.'"

Not sure that's correct information since (as per the prior posts here) it's my understanding that they were and still are on WFMZ's tower (digitally). She pretty clearly seems to be saying that they are on a different tower now (digitally), so I'll let you better-informed members comment on that.
post #1785 of 3803
Thanks for info on the Fox transmitters. I think I am getting the further Scranton stations, 54 miles away, because the attic antenna receives the signals more easily through the north gable of my house. The signals from the closer Philadelphia stations, 35 miles away, have to go through my roof and roof structure.

Quote:
Which Scranton stations can you receive?

Scranton 54 miles
Reliable
WVIA

Unreliable
WNEP
WYOU
WBRE

Philadelphia 35 miles
Reliable
KYW
WPVI
WCAU
WPHL
WYBE
WPPX

Bethlehem 10 miles
Reliable
WLVT
WBPH
WFMZ
post #1786 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkaucher View Post

So far I have been unable to receive either of the Fox stations from Philadelphia (WTXF-DT) or Scranton (WOLF-DT). Does anyone know if they are currently transmitting at full power, or if they will be increasing their power when (if) the transition occurs?

Thanks,
Gary

42 was a %^&*^ for me to dial in 40 miles NW of philly. But since i paid someone 400 bucks to walk around my roof centimeter by centimeter for a few hours (not much an exaggeration), i found a sweet spot and 42 is one of my more solid stations around low 70s reading and i've gotten it consistently for 3 years. 64 and 67 are much higher..always in 80s or 90s reading, but they fluctuate a lot. 54 is also low 70s but solid, doesnt move.

my guess is you need to move your antenna a millimeter at a time to find the sweet spot between fox vs all others. Worked for me
post #1787 of 3803
I get WTXF very reliably from West Lawn - just west of Reading, PA. Winegard HD7084 antenna and a pre-amp.

I also get Fox from WPMT-43. A stronger signal than WTXF. Try pointing towards York.

From time to time, I can get Wolf-56. The past two weeks, I have been getting about a 20% signal on my CM-7000 converter box. The signal is not reliable.

Yes Trip, your posting regarding WTXF was very helpful - thanks.
post #1788 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

While I would expect to recieve WLVT more strongly now, I don't know if I should be seeing any change in WFMZ's reception (Trip?).

Shouldn't change WFMZ.

Quote:


Glad to hear that my WTXF reception should also be improving. Now if WHYY will come thru for me, life will indeed be good. And, of course, by God, they should try to make T-Max happy!

We'll have to wait and see what WHYY does. I'd think the lower power bills on 12 would be enticing. Maybe someone can call and ask?

Quote:


Not sure that's correct information since (as per the prior posts here) it's my understanding that they were and still are on WFMZ's tower (digitally). She pretty clearly seems to be saying that they are on a different tower now (digitally), so I'll let you better-informed members comment on that.

The analog was on a different tower than the digital now is according to FCC records.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkaucher View Post

Scranton 54 miles

Bethlehem 10 miles
WFMZ

This is probably your problem. WOLF-DT is on channel 45 and WFMZ-DT is on channel 46. While adjacent channels can co-exist peacefully in most cases, if the power levels vary by a huge amount, it can cause problems. That could be your issue.

Sadly, that means swinging the antenna around and trying for WPMT-DT 47 might net you similar results, though it's worth a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy63 View Post

Yes Trip, your posting regarding WTXF was very helpful - thanks.

Glad to help.

- Trip
post #1789 of 3803
I think you are right Trip about WFMZ. It is consistantly the strongest signal that I get. I don't have a rotor on my antenna. But it doesn't matter how I orient it, I always get WFMZ on channel 46 due west of me.

If I'm trying to get either Fox WTXF on channel 42 south of me or Fox WOLF on channel 45 north of me, is there some way for me to block WFMZ's signals from the west? If I put up some chicken wire or wire mesh on the west side of my antenna would that dampen WFMZ's signal?

Thanks for everyone's input.
Gary
post #1790 of 3803
So is WLVT-HD actually coming through in HD for anyone? I'm getting a windowbox on the HD channel via RCN in the Lehigh Valley but am not sure where the problem lies. And this is after the HD channel was dark for nearly a week.
post #1791 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan View Post

So is WLVT-HD actually coming through in HD for anyone? I'm getting a windowbox on the HD channel via RCN in the Lehigh Valley but am not sure where the problem lies. And this is after the HD channel was dark for nearly a week.

I was getting a shrunken box last night with their OTA signal during Nature. The aspect ratio might have been 16:9, but there were black borders on all four sides.
post #1792 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan View Post

So is WLVT-HD actually coming through in HD for anyone? I'm getting a windowbox on the HD channel via RCN in the Lehigh Valley but am not sure where the problem lies. And this is after the HD channel was dark for nearly a week.

Good question. I am also wondering about that. I don't have an HD TV but I think I'm correct in saying that when I do get HD programming, it ain't "windowboxed" (a.k.a. "postage stamped"), which is what I've been getting a lot since WLVT came back on the air with their digital channels late Saturday.

I suggest you email Pat Simon and David Smith with your question -

http://www.wlvt.org/Staff_Direct.cfm

particularly since Pat Simon's PSA (which you might have seen running pretty much all of January) contained her representation that what we'd see after they switched over on 1/30 was "improved service since we will be broadcasting everything in HD" or words to that effect. What I see now is same as it ever was; namely, some programming that looks like it's probably in HD (again, I can't be sure with my setup) and a lot that is postage stamped, and thus seemingly not in HD.

IOW, there's been no improvement in that regard over what they were formerly putting out.

I'll take a shot at predicting the answer from the engineering department: "We only broadcast what we get from PBS and some of that is in HD and some of it isn't. We have no control over that."

Or words to that effect.

Which is why I have a problem with Pat Simon's PSA -- probably the bulk of it was wrong and/or misleading.

But I don't want to open that can of worms again because it seems like we aren't supposed to voice our opinions here lest those that disagree start lobbing shells over our bows. And God forbid that we endeavor to defend ourselves lest we hear from yet another lurking member of the peanut gallery about how the board is getting too hostile, blah blah blah blah.

I guess we're just supposed to keep it geekishly technical; ya know, talk about radio frequencies, the FCC data base, multipath, the doppler effect and stuff like that.



__________________
Regular old NTSC TV
SIR-TS360 receiver (also Voom OTA box (retired Voom Satellite box))
RS Model VU-190 XR antenna
Getting 30+ strong stations out of the Roxborough farm and Trenton (farm is ~50 miles away @ 233°)
post #1793 of 3803
And while we are on the topic of OTA anomalies, has anyone noticed that during some programs on WCAU (ie. Today) the volume of the commercials is a lot lower than that of the program? At first I thought someone should let them know. But then I thought, "Hey, that's very nice of them to turn down the commercicals for me! (especially if it's one of those annoying Raymour and Flanigan commercials)" So, kudos to WCAU!
post #1794 of 3803
And further while we are on the topic of OTA anomalies, I WAS going to comment in my last post about how I was receiving WLVT much stronger now because my antenna had blown a bit further off the Bethlehem direction and much more toward Roxborough, and I was nevertheless receiving WLVT and not WFMZ. I said this in a prior post but the antenna has moved even farther off the mark since then.

But I checked first and wasn't receiving either WLVT or WFMZ. I assumed I'd reached the limit of WLVT reception.

But it's back again. WFMZ isn't but WLVT is back long and strong. So I assume they were off the air earlier (at the time of my last post) doing some tweaking, etc., and are now back on. So it looks to me like they've significantly increased their broadcast situation because they are now considerably stronger for me than WFMZ is, and that's always been a pretty strong one for me.

BTW, I received another email from Pat Simon who had previously asked my geographic location. This time she thanked me for that info and said "we are beginning to track where the cliff effect takes place."

I'm basically due east of Allentown/Bethlehem and ~43 miles away. Does anyone know what "cliff" she's referring to, or what the "cliff effect" is?
post #1795 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkaucher View Post

So far I have been unable to receive either of the Fox stations from Philadelphia (WTXF-DT) or Scranton (WOLF-DT). Does anyone know if they are currently transmitting at full power, or if they will be increasing their power when (if) the transition occurs?

Thanks,
Gary

WTXF is running PSAs saying that they will have digital 42 operating at full power by March 31st I think it was, and that up to 12% of viewers will loose their signal and need an outdoor antenna, till they get their full power signal up and running. I posted a couple pages back the text of their PSA, the wording was kinda confusing. They kept saying to rescan, I guess they meant if you watch analog now, you have to rescan to ch 42.
post #1796 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

But I don't want to open that can of worms again because it seems like we aren't supposed to voice our opinions here lest those that disagree start lobbing shells over our bows. And God forbid that we endeavor to defend ourselves lest we hear from yet another lurking member of the peanut gallery about how the board is getting too hostile, blah blah blah blah.

I guess we're just supposed to keep it geekishly technical; ya know, talk about radio frequencies, the FCC data base, multipath, the doppler effect and stuff like that.


Haha.

Nah, there's place for reasonable debate on AVS. I didn't find your attitude hostile, I hope you didn't find mine to be!

I just think stations should be cut more slack as long as they're making a good effort, given how much trouble technology gives me--and I'm really good with it. I get mad at stations who don't make a good effort, and there are plenty of those around too.

Now I haven't seen these PSAs you're commenting on now, any links to any of them? If they're that misleading, I might end up agreeing with you. Can you imagine a world like that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

And further while we are on the topic of OTA anomalies, I WAS going to comment in my last post about how I was receiving WLVT much stronger now because my antenna had blown a bit further off the Bethlehem direction and much more toward Roxborough, and I was nevertheless receiving WLVT and not WFMZ. I said this in a prior post but the antenna has moved even farther off the mark since then.

But I checked first and wasn't receiving either WLVT or WFMZ. I assumed I'd reached the limit of WLVT reception.

But it's back again. WFMZ isn't but WLVT is back long and strong. So I assume they were off the air earlier (at the time of my last post) doing some tweaking, etc., and are now back on. So it looks to me like they've significantly increased their broadcast situation because they are now considerably stronger for me than WFMZ is, and that's always been a pretty strong one for me.

Three possibilities:

1. You're in a sweet spot for the new WLVT-DT.

2. You're getting multipath from WFMZ-DT that you're not getting on WLVT-DT. Maybe this should be a subset of 1.

3. You're getting interference from something else.

Number 1 seems most likely to me.

Quote:


BTW, I received another email from Pat Simon who had previously asked my geographic location. This time she thanked me for that info and said "we are beginning to track where the cliff effect takes place."

I'm basically due east of Allentown/Bethlehem and ~43 miles away. Does anyone know what "cliff" she's referring to, or what the "cliff effect" is?

The cliff effect is basically where the signal/noise ratio drops below the decodable point and you get "No Signal" instead of something usable. In analog you have a graceful fade (snow); on digital, it's there or it isn't, borderline signals with pixelation notwithstanding.

- Trip
post #1797 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

BTW, I received another email from Pat Simon who had previously asked my geographic location. This time she thanked me for that info and said "we are beginning to track where the cliff effect takes place."

I'm basically due east of Allentown/Bethlehem and ~43 miles away. Does anyone know what "cliff" she's referring to, or what the "cliff effect" is?

The cliff effect refers to a characteristic of digital TV, that viewers within a certain distance or ideal locations will receive a perfect picture (even with a fairly weak signal), but those beyond that distance or behind obstacles will receive no signal at all, or a signal that cannot be decoded into picture and sound. Think of "cliff" in the sense of "falling off a cliff" - right at the edge you are doing fine, but take another step and you are in trouble. This is in contrast to analog signals which simply degrade in quality the farther you are from the transmitter.
post #1798 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Haha. - Trip

Hey, you laughing at me, pal?

Quote:
Now I haven't seen these PSAs you're commenting on now, any links to any of them? If they're that misleading, I might end up agreeing with you. Can you imagine a world like that?

I can dig it.

I don't think there are any links to the PSAs and they obviously won't be running them anymore. I wondered about her statement about "better service cuz it'll be HD, yada yada" as soon as she said it. My experience with HD so far makes me think that it'll be awhile before virtually everything is actually in HD (or "HD format"). Witness the change when your HD program goes to commercial (and you get one that's postage-stamped).

Quote:
1. You're in a sweet spot for the new WLVT-DT.

Time will tell and I previously thought (one time only) that I had a sweet spot when they were still at RF 62 (I posted on it not that long ago) but I think this is different. If it ain't, it seems like a nice big sweet spot and I'll take it no matter what it is. Cuz if I don't have to turn my antenna to git WLVT, I can just leave it pointed toward Roxborough and get all I want (I don't really watch WFMZ but for their weather channel, which I like).

Quote:
The cliff effect is basically where the signal/noise ratio drops below the decodable point and you get "No Signal" instead of something usable. In analog you have a graceful fade (snow); on digital, it's there or it isn't, borderline signals with pixelation notwithstanding.

See below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootofjesse View Post

The cliff effect refers to a characteristic of digital TV, that viewers within a certain distance or ideal locations will receive a perfect picture (even with a fairly weak signal), but those beyond that distance or behind obstacles will receive no signal at all, or a signal that cannot be decoded into picture and sound. Think of "cliff" in the sense of "falling off a cliff" - right at the edge you are doing fine, but take another step and you are in trouble. This is in contrast to analog signals which simply degrade in quality the farther you are from the transmitter.

Ahhhhhhhh, now I get it! There ain't no actual "cliff" (well, actually there kinda is). So yer sayin that Pat Simon was using a technical term on me to show me up as a dummie. Now that really irks me because I can do a fine enough job of that on my own!

I think I'll email her back and tell her that I'm getting her much stronger now than before, so the cliff (wherever it is) would appear to have moved further east.
post #1799 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

The cliff effect is basically where the signal/noise ratio drops below the decodable point and you get "No Signal" instead of something usable. In analog you have a graceful fade (snow); on digital, it's there or it isn't, borderline signals with pixelation notwithstanding.

- Trip

Sorry Trip - I did not notice your good answer when I replied. I'm one of those at the edge of the cliff, which in reality means that in certain weather I am on solid ground on top of the cliff and in other weather I am at the bottom of the cliff.
post #1800 of 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootofjesse View Post

...I'm one of those at the edge of the cliff, which in reality means that in certain weather I am on solid ground on top of the cliff and in other weather I am at the bottom of the cliff.

Where are you located? I think I already said I'm ~43 miles due east of Allentown. Am I correct in assuming you're on the edge of the "cliff" vis-a-vis WLVT?
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