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Philadelphia, PA - OTA - Page 2

post #31 of 3658
1/17/06 at 4:02pm
the fox 29 thing bugs a lot of us. I'm spending x$ trying to find a place on the roof to get everything in as we speak. If you are 60 miles out and getting everything good, you sure must have a great line of sight. I'm 40 miles out and have seen people on here 10 miles out and not get it.

countless emails to fox have yielded no results. I think we have to live with this forever it seems.
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post #32 of 3658
1/17/06 at 4:05pm
I came across this wonderful document. Is a list of TV stations, their current digital and analog channels and the channel they have chosen to use for their digital broadcast when analog is turned off.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-05-2649A2.pdf
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post #33 of 3658
1/17/06 at 4:58pm
I am 35 miles away and get everything very well. My standard advice is to go higher. I had trouble everywhere on my roof and then I went higher and everything was great... I also needed an amp...

Z
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post #34 of 3658
1/17/06 at 5:40pm
Higher works for most people. But don't rule out horizontal. A few feet make a huge difference horizontally for me.
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post #35 of 3658
1/17/06 at 6:20pm
Thread Starter 
Remember, I am only 4 miles away from the towers, and CANNOT get WTXF-DT 29.1. I get all the other stations at least in the mid to upper 80s.
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post #36 of 3658
1/18/06 at 5:22am
how far below sea level are you?
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post #37 of 3658
1/18/06 at 5:21pm
According to that list, WPVI-DT want's to go back to channel 6 after the change to all digital?
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post #38 of 3658
1/19/06 at 6:07pm
I live 6 miles from the tower. I can get all of the digital channels in Philly except WTXF 29.1. The signal strength has been consistenly below 15.
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post #39 of 3658
1/20/06 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyJoel View Post

According to that list, WPVI-DT want's to go back to channel 6 after the change to all digital?

I think they dont have a choice based on what i've read since above 51 are gone. I'll be happy 17 goes to 17 because that should be a nice strong UHF signal even at the same power. Just wish I knew what 10 was doing. I guess go back to 10? I'd love a lower uhf because with my DB8 im not sure that it will get vhf so well.
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post #40 of 3658
1/24/06 at 10:22am
Tiny update on my DB8 antenna saga for anyone following along. After the guy trying every foot or so on the length of my roof, and even a higher roof, I settled on the original spot over the place in the attic where i got great numbers. I'm definitely shooting between a house and an unseen object in the distance. The installer was pretty flabbergasted how just a foot made a huge difference.

So now that I was 6ft away from the chimney, using a tripod and 5 ft pole instead of a 10ft on the chimney, I'm pretty confident the high winds wont bug this mount again. CH 64/67 are in the 80s. Ch42 is a solid 71. Wb 54 is a somewhat solid 68. Of course cbs/upn are 90 since they are in the lower UHF.

In my case, higher wasn't always better. A foot horizontally made the difference between 10-15 on the signal meter. I spend 400 in labor etc getting it this far so hope they kill ch 54 and move the programs down to 32. Then I'd be set. Or if they even put CW on directv I'd be ok if the signal was as good as OTA (not likely though)
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post #41 of 3658
1/24/06 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 
Funny you mention this. OTA signals are strange and weird. I had a neighbor on his roof, hop on over to mine, just to bump my antenna. When he did, I received a solid mid 60s on 29.1. So, now I am going to have to come up with something to get WTXF-DT. Thankfully, there's no more football on FOX for this year. We'll get to see the Super Bowl on ABC, WPVI-DT this year.
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post #42 of 3658
1/24/06 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by newsman View Post

Funny you mention this. OTA signals are strange and weird. I had a neighbor on his roof, hop on over to mine, just to bump my antenna. When he did, I received a solid mid 60s on 29.1. So, now I am going to have to come up with something to get WTXF-DT. Thankfully, there's no more football on FOX for this year. We'll get to see the Super Bowl on ABC, WPVI-DT this year.

Newsman,
I recommend you ask questions on the Antenna specific thread on how to get your FOX signal working. My guess (which I know very little about all this) is that the FOX signal is going over you, since your only 4 miles away? Here is the link...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=381623

The antenna thread has some very technical people, with charts and all on how it all works. I think you'll find the help you need there.
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post #43 of 3658
1/24/06 at 11:44am
Yea they are weird alright. He was worried that the neighbors tree 200 ft away would block the signal in spring when the leaves come back. But i told him not to worry about it. I'm pretty sure i'm far enough back. So we shall see in a few months if im right or wrong.

He was also shocked that literally 1/8 inch movement on the antenna made a huge difference in signal. He said he's been doing this 5 years so I figured he knows what he's talking about. Maybe it's my db8 that he wasn't used to. He did try his antenna but it didn't pull in as much as mine.
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post #44 of 3658
1/24/06 at 11:52am
This thread is great! I watched both games on Sunday. The CBS game was unbelievable. (My first weekend with my new Sony 42 A10 PR-LCD). I've always heard that FOX looked so much better than CBS but from what I saw, CBS was better.

My question is - the score/time line on the FOX game did not look sharp (the video looked good on FOX). Did anyone else see this? In other words, I expected a PC quality of the letters, which instead looked edgy.

My signal numbers are as follows. FOX 81 - 84% (though the signal totally cut out a number of times) and all other channels are at 95-98%.

I called a friend who has comcast HD and he said the letters on the time/score line were sharp.

Any input?
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post #45 of 3658
1/24/06 at 12:09pm
The Fox Box looked sharp to me via Comcast. I am not sure Fox uses an HD kyron character generator and may just use the old SD one. CBS uses the HD model as does Comcast Sportsnet so that the graphics look clear and clean as does the action. Fox HD sports in no way approaches CBS at all. It is not a 720p vs. 1080i issue as much IMHO as the fact that CBS transmits a full bandwidth HD signal while Fox does not. Due the the fact that Fox non O & O affiliates multicast and given that Fox uses a splicer technology to deliver their HD, they have to send less than full bandwidth HD out so their affiliates who multicast can use it. In other words, they dumb down their HD so all of their affiliates can use it. They are capable of better and I have seen the feed set to thir distribution network and it is much better than what they send out to their affiliates.
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post #46 of 3658
1/26/06 at 8:50am
My situation

Ok everyone, first just wanted to say hello. This is pretty much the first time i've been on these forums. I live approx 15 miles from all the major towers and fox is for sure the hardest to get in clear. I live on the first floor of an apartment building so im stuck with friggin indoor antennaes, and i refuse to pay comcast $$ for HDTV. I currently have a non amplified trek antenna and in order to get a good signal i have to stack a few boxes on top my tv so i can get this antenna as high as possible.(looks like **** but it's better then paying comcast)

My problem

I can get most channels pretty good like this. I can get 3.1 at like 95. 6.1 at about 90. Fox even at like 80. However occasionally while watching, my signal will drop to about 40 for no apparent reason. My picture cuts off for about 2-3 secs and then my signal will be back up to 90. I have tried a philips indoor antenna that was amplified but still experienced the same problem. This problem does not occur every day, but on most days.

My Question

My friend that reccomended me to this site told me i might need a higher quality amplified antenna to help keep the signal strong but told me to ask people here. Does anyone know what i can do to fix this? If it is indeed the antenna what do you recommend? Remember its got to be indoor only and price is really not an issue.

Thanks in advance

Tim
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post #47 of 3658
1/26/06 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_sinist View Post

My situation

Ok everyone, first just wanted to say hello. This is pretty much the first time i've been on these forums. I live approx 15 miles from all the major towers and fox is for sure the hardest to get in clear. I live on the first floor of an apartment building so im stuck with friggin indoor antennaes, and i refuse to pay comcast $$ for HDTV. I currently have a non amplified trek antenna and in order to get a good signal i have to stack a few boxes on top my tv so i can get this antenna as high as possible.(looks like **** but it's better then paying comcast)

My problem

I can get most channels pretty good like this. I can get 3.1 at like 95. 6.1 at about 90. Fox even at like 80. However occasionally while watching, my signal will drop to about 40 for no apparent reason. My picture cuts off for about 2-3 secs and then my signal will be back up to 90. I have tried a philips indoor antenna that was amplified but still experienced the same problem. This problem does not occur every day, but on most days.

My Question

My friend that reccomended me to this site told me i might need a higher quality amplified antenna to help keep the signal strong but told me to ask people here. Does anyone know what i can do to fix this? If it is indeed the antenna what do you recommend? Remember its got to be indoor only and price is really not an issue.

Thanks in advance

Tim

Tim,

I can't help you but there is a great thread for Antenna's in general - you'll want to post there. Here is the link. There are many technical people who watch that thread so they are the best resource. I believe that many get pretty good reception from the Silver Sensor (indoor antenna).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=381623
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post #48 of 3658
1/29/06 at 2:37pm
nbc 10 apparently has chosen uhf 34

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=63153
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post #49 of 3658
1/29/06 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 
Looks like they are going to drop the wattage as well - to 325,000 watts, from the current 560,000 watts. I wonder what effect that will have. Looking up WTXF, I can see their problem w/ their digital channel right off the bat. They are much lower in height than channel 10's DT antenna. Plus, they are much lower power than channel WCAU-DT as well. However, WTXF-DT has a CP for 1,000,000 watts of power and a taller height for their antenna. That may cure my reception problems.
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post #50 of 3658
1/30/06 at 5:23am
oh it would be great if fox ever actually got up to that power! I dont think we will have problems with nbc 34 at only 325kw/377m because i get in upn 32 with a 90 signal and they are only 250kw/400m. The lower UHF requires less power as evidenced by my difficult receptions of ch64/67 at 500-560kw.

It's 6 that i'm worried about since my antenna isn't made for vhf
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post #51 of 3658
1/31/06 at 8:08pm
It'd be great if WTXF-DT went to that power but I'm sure I'll completely lose WCAU-DT at 34. I'm sure my XG91 has too low gain at that channel to get at this distance.
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post #52 of 3658
2/1/06 at 4:41am
I'm not familiar at all with the xg91 but had thought it was a 'rule' that lower uhf was easier to get for all antennas across the board? I do realize certain antennas are 'better' than others for certain ranges, but with the power they will have , nbc should come in even better I'd think.

upn has half the power as nbc will..how do you get that channel in?
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post #53 of 3658
2/1/06 at 7:27am
Here's a link that compares some common antenna's.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
If I was any closer, I might not have a problem but I'm 58 miles from the transmitters and seriously doubt I'll get WCAU-DT's signal reliably if they drop their transmitter power.
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post #54 of 3658
2/1/06 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyJoel View Post

Here's a link that compares some common antenna's.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
If I was any closer, I might not have a problem but I'm 58 miles from the transmitters and seriously doubt I'll get WCAU-DT's signal reliably if they drop their transmitter power.

do you get UPN now? If so, nbc shouldn't be an issue.
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post #55 of 3658
2/2/06 at 2:28pm
I do get UPN but not as reliably as NBC. For some reason UPN and WB give me a strong signal but some nights I get alot of "hiccups" with them. Once the change-over I may have to re-evaluate my current antenna situation.
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post #56 of 3658
2/2/06 at 4:00pm
HarleyJoel - Are you using a pre-amp? I was having the same problem with WPVI for a little bit. It turned out I had to much gain on the pre-amp. Once I tuned it back, it was very solid. I may get a very minor cut-out for every 2-3 hours of viewing now.

Anyhow I posted a while back about having problems with whyy, and a little with fox, but it is really good now that I have it mounted better in my attic. With WTXF at 32 miles away in the attic, I get solid 85-86 signal with no cut-out (so far).

Steve
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post #57 of 3658
2/2/06 at 4:10pm
I do have a pre-amp on the mast - Winegard AP-4800. It crossed my mind that I might have too much gain on it. I'll try an attenuator to see if anything changes but I'm 58 miles from the transmitters so I don't know how much I can back it off.
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post #58 of 3658
2/3/06 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyJoel View Post

I do get UPN but not as reliably as NBC. For some reason UPN and WB give me a strong signal but some nights I get alot of "hiccups" with them. Once the change-over I may have to re-evaluate my current antenna situation.

wow bizarre. UPN and CBS have always been 90 for me even when the others like nbc died out and fox wasn't even a blip on my screen and WB was 60ish. I'm assuming hiccups is multipath so some fine tuning or moving the antenna may be in order

if you are 58 miles from the towers, you dont need to decrease the signal, trust me on that one
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post #59 of 3658
2/3/06 at 12:23pm
I guess you're right. The attenuator didn't help at all. It must be multipath. It doesn't happen all the time. I actually can re-aim my antenna to get a better UPN and WB signal but then I drastically lose the WPVI signal. For some reason, WPVI-DT is one of the only channels that I have to be directly aimed at a certain spot for the signal to be there. My final "tweak" is to put my rotator back up with guy wires.
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post #60 of 3658
2/3/06 at 4:29pm
It's a hard thing to diagnose. Can drive you mad. I realize you already have this up and running on a mast but did you fully try all over the roof etc to see the best signal before it was put up? I wound up paying someone to run across the roof for me and use a tripod but since i'm averse to heights, it was well worth the money plus it's easier to change channels with 2 people doing this.
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