Philadelphia, PA - OTA - Page 114

Welcome to the mysterious world of indoor antennae. Stand in the corner, raise your left arm over your head, and hold that position for an hour. Tried to live with this in my kitchen for a couple months (and I'm in Lower Bucks County, a lot closer) but gave up and drilled some holes and fished coax up into the attic to link in to the attic antenna setup which is a lot more stable. Outdoor and high up is best, but I didn't want to deal with the installation and maintenance headaches given the kind of weather we've seen lately. Even in the attic, the DB8 UHF is sensitive to as little as a couple degrees rotation to reject multipath, but at least up there it's out of sight and after months of experimentation years back, it's now in set-it-and-forget-it mode. So-called high tech indoor HD antennas are largely smoke and mirrors but you could get lucky.

It appears that KYW stopped broadcasting TVGOS data some time Thursday. I've emailed Rich Paleski at KYW engineering - hopefully he will track down the problem.

Thank you for the words of encouragement. Last night I screened 15 minutes of Grimm and didn't see a single drop out. If the Wall-Tenna doesn't give me constant dropouts every few minutes while watching Once Upon A Time on WPVI/ABC/6, I THINK the Mohu Leaf is headed back to Amazon for a refund.

Lest we forget, a major cause of ATSC dropouts (even when the signal strength is fairly high) is multipath, and in particular that caused by moving objects. Now occasionally this can result from an airplane going over, or a car or truck driving by, but in the suburbs the primary culprits are the trees on windy days. Now that most or all the leaves have fallen, the problem may seem to have gone away, but come spring, if you start seeing dropouts (especially when it's windy outside), you can pin it on the trees.

WMCN, channel 44, has started broadcasting on 44.2 with BounceTV.

And Bounce is a little more interesting than the Kerbeck Automotive programming on 44.1. They show some good movies - Conan the Barbarian, Glory, To Kill a Mockingbird, Philadelphia, all within the next couple of weeks. TitanTV has listings for it. Thanks for the heads up.

Something was gumming up the wporks on Sunday night. WPVI/ABC/6-1 was unwatchable regardless of what I did with the Wall-Tenna. The wife was disappointed about having to wait for Once Upon A Time on the safety net knows as Hulu Plus. Oh well, I am seeing some one about a rooftop antenna this week.

I'm only 11 miles from the towers in Roxborough and wouldn't dream of not having antennas on the roof. If you want reliable signal, do it right.

Frank -

I got a PM from Bob08033 on this situation which seemed to contain what looked like his post replying to your post (above) but I don't see his post on the forum. What's up with that? Did he post? Was it taken down?

Anyway, he said (in what appeared to be his 11-27-11, 03:59 PM post):

...maybe 'T-Max' in Bridgewater can now recieve Philadelphia KYW without bomb his 'VOOM' box.

Indeed, that is the case. I now can tune to KYW on the VOOM box without it rebooting as soon as I do.

So now I'm wondering if the TVGOS data is back. I tend to think not because Bob PM'd me again this afternoon that it still wasn't back.

I suspect that when it does come back, it'll bomb the VOOM out and it'll be DéjÃ* vu all over again.

wow didnt think anyone out there still uses ancient voom boxes

As of this morning, TVGOS has not come back yet. Hopefully Rovi is fixing things so your problem will NOT return, but who can predict?

What I can tell you is that the situation with KYW did not exist originally. I've been OTA on the VOOM since January 2007 and it was not until maybe a couple of years later that virtually all of the CBS stations across the country changed their signals by inserting something that caused the VOOMs to bomb out. That's when I first had the problem with KYW and also WCBS in NYC, and I started to see reports of it from other folks about other CBS stations elsewhere.

I could tell you pretty much exactly when that happened if I looked over my old notes and maybe my old posts. But I'm not gonna do that.

Prior to that, the only known and reported similar problem (actually, same problem) was with some PBS stations, none of which were any of my local stations.

Now, I think I did recently post about my tropo reception of a bunch of Baltimore stations, one of which was a station carrying some CBS programming and which did not bomb the VOOM out. But that station is apparently not a true CBS affiliate, so it's understandable that it would not necessarily have the same objectional component that true CBS affiliates obviously have.

So I expect that when KYW "fixes" the TVGOS problem, it will result in the recurrence of the same old problem with my VOOM.

If you want to mention to your contact, feel free.

TVGOS had been carried by PBS, but Rovi then dropped PBS (or PBS dropped them) and they contracted with CBS. Indeed, it seems that the TVGOS data is what is killing your VOOM box. You need to provide this info to Rovi at ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com (especially if it comes back with TVGOS), as KYW has no control over this. Rovi habitually does not answer email until several months after it's been sent, so don't be surprised if you don't get a reply.

It may be a problem with your box not adhering to the ATSC standards, in which case you'd need to contact the manufacturer.

Has it come back yet? It's ~7:35 PM as I write this and I'm still able to receive KYW on the VOOM box. I'll be watching Survivor on the VOOM for the first time in a long time.


I'll bring it to their attention but I think I already know that the VOOM doesn't quite adhere to the ATSC standards and that there's no support for these boxes any longer.

This is all 100% correct.


Unfortunatly, I would expect the same.

Motorola made the box for Voom, but since Voom went belly up, there is no support available.

I spoke with CBS about this years ago, and they were never able to fix the issue, so my guess is it's a box firmware/software issue or some combination of the TVGOS stream and box.

TVGOS is not back on KYW as of 10:17PM Wednesday night, and I doubt we'll see it in less than a week, if then, so I'll post here if/when it returns. As the outage continues, I'll be emailing Rovi again to express my dismay, or perhaps calling them (their number in Radnor is 610-293-8500, and though that department is associated with content rather than technical, they were moderately sympathetic and helpful during the protracted outage a year ago.) T-Max, I know you don't want it to come back, but some of us (Sony DVR owners) are SOL as long as it's down.

The VOOM does have its issues, but it does a pretty good job of pulling in OTA stations.

Much better than my Samsung SIR-TS360, which was a pretty expensive box when it came out. I really only use the Sammie for watching KYW because of the conflict the VOOM has with it's signal.

If the VOOM didn't have that conflict, I'd probably rarely use the Sammie at all. The only other use I have for it is if I want to record something while I'm watching something else at the same time and I split the signal from the antenna and run it to the two boxes.

To my surprise, Rovi actually answered my email in less than a month. Here is what they wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Frank

Our broadcast operations team is aware of an issue at the broadcast station 3-1 KYW-DT CBS which is causing this TVGOS service outage.

Unfortunately we have not been informed of the nature of the issue or any ETA of it's resolution.

We will escalate this case to our broadcast operations group, and we will get you an update as soon as more information is available

Your Case Number is 1267485.

Additional Information and FAQs can be found in our knowledge base at http://www.rovicorp.com/support/ce

We appreciate the opportunity to assist you.
CE Technical Support
Rovi

Did anybody else see any problems with ch 29 reception during the Packers / Giants game yesterday?

It's normally one of my strongest stations and I almost never have any issues at all with it, yet I kept losing reception for intervals of 15 seconds to a minute or more, mostly during the 2nd half of the game. It kept happening a lot.

I even turned my antenna more toward Philly (and away from Allentown) and it didn't help at all. I marked the reception level at 0-81% during one bad spell.

I have the antenna back in the Philly/Allentown position again (So I can get WFMZ) and my ch 29 reception right now is @ 95%

???????

Fox29 is not the strongest channel for me but I can normally lock it in. This past Sunday my TivoHd complained of no signal on that channel. Signal strength was almost nothing.

Lot's of atmospheric enhancement Sunday. You were probably experiencing tropo interference from WMPT in Annapolis, MD.

That was the case for me. MPT trashed it. Still can't believe they allow adjacent markets the same RF on full power. Negligence.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. That had to be it because I got that station and a bunch of other Baltimore area stations not all that long ago when the tropo was favorable for that kind of thing.

From Rovi on 7 Dec:
-------------------

Dear Frank,

Our equipment at the local broadcast station KYW has been taken offline pending the completion of some testing at the station. We have no ETA, but are hopeful to be back up within the next couple of weeks.

As before, we will add this case to the escalation and your case will be updated the same as the others regarding this issue.

Thank you for your patience,

CE Tech Support
Rovi

Mike from KC Antenna & Handyman Services successfully installed an AntennaCraft 5884 UHF/VHF antenna today.

http://www.kcantennaandhandymanservice.com/contact.html

Anyone in the Philadelphia/South Jersey area who doesn't like ladders should look him up. My TiVo Premiere now has rock solid picture, even on the challenging WHYY/PBS and WPVI/ABC signals. I had tried five different indoor antennas and none of them could consistently pull in every channel all of the time. I found K-C on the web, called and discussed options. I knew that Mike was the right installer when he said that he brings two antennas to every job. Mike confirmed his install the night before and arrived on time the morning of the installation. He even connected the new antenna to my existing grounding rod. For anyone trying to cut some or all of the Comcast or Verizon cord Mike's over the air free high definition television antennas are the way to go. Now that all of the networks are crystal clear, I might not renew the $9 per month Hulu Plus when the free trial period expires.

Maybe someone can give some advice. I live in Manahawkin NJ I've been getting wpvi with dropouts everyonce in a while, all of a sudden since Monday I can't even get a signal. But last Monday in that heavey fog I had it with no dropouts got home from work and I never seen it again. does anyone have an idea what is going on with me?

Are you able to get WFMZ on either RF45 or RF46 (69.1) and are you getting channels off the back of that antenna, specifically WNJS (23.1), WMCN (44.1 and 44.2) and the low power station in Hammonton (WPSJ)?

I'm getting all those channels real good. I'm getting 12.1 this mourning but this afternoon it only at 36 percent

I have tested the Antennacraft 5884 with the TivO and the Samsung. Mike from KC antenna did have an AntennaCraft U8000 8 bay UHF antenna with him if the 5884 didn't work but I was pleased with the succes rate of the 5884.

69.1 WFMZ No signal on the TiVo or Samsung

23.1 WNJS PBS very pixilated and tiled on the TiVo, but clear on the Samsung. Reception was better with the Wall-Tenna. I would like to get WNJS/PBS/23 but I figure that any program I miss there will be on WHYY/PBS/12 from Philadelphia.

44.1 & 44.2 Good signal from a crummy source. They appear to be broadcasting a poor picture quality without any sort of programming guide. My TiVo shows "To Be Announced" for their entire schedule. They must have TVGOS since their are program descriptions on my Samsung.

55.1 WPSJ No signal on TiVo or Samsung.

Once again, thank you for all of you tips, suggestions and and comments.