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Philadelphia, PA - OTA - Page 119

post #3541 of 3806
Quote:


I was looking at the 7778..... but some of the newest reviews on amazon were complaining that they changed the amp and now the new ones are not separate uhf and vhf. The old ones are still separate but they new ones are just one input. So no clue if I would be getting a newer one or older when ordering.

Call the vendor directly to see what they still have in stock. New production of both units has shifted to the single input versions, but you may still find inventory at some sellers.
post #3542 of 3806
NY reception was very good. Only Fox 5 on RF 44 was impossible due to a channel in S. Jersey on the same frequency.WWOR originally was good, but then became difficult to get. You are somewhat closer, but you may still need to move the antenna outside and higher. I played around with a lot of configurations at different houses and there's nothing like being up on the roof and as high as possible.
post #3543 of 3806
We are almost all set. I found out my one older 60" HD projection tv only has two analog OTA tuners, but no digital. Least thats what I'm guessing as it can't get any stations locked in. But when i take the wire off and connect it to my little flat screen tv - all the channels come through.

Whats a cheap decent digital tuner I can buy? if anyone uses one....

I have to say thanks for all of your guys help. We are up to 34 channels - all super sharp and so far no dropouts. I guess we will see as the weather changes how that effects my signals. Next week I have to hook up to my computer network. I have a 2 tuner digital unit that will go directly to the network and let me have 2 dvr's and watch tv on any computer in the house as well as the tv's. Then where the shows are saved on the network storage area, I can play them with the WD live players hooked to the tv's (or the computers). My own little - no monthly fee Tivo setup


Here is the channels list that all comes in clear with no dropouts. This is just pointing towards philly. i haven't set up NY yet. Some of these channels are weird, but some are pretty cool (besides all the major network ones)

3.1 KYW
6.1 WPVI
6.2 Living Well
10.1 WCAU
10.2 Non Stop TV
12.1 WHYY
12.2 Y Arts
12.3 Y Info
17.1 WPHL
17.2 This TV
17.4 tango tv
23.1 wnjs
29.1 wtxf fox
35.1 mind tv
35.2 nhk world
35.64 rt tv
35.6 wfme
48.1 tbn
48.3 jc music tv
48.4 fnlace
48.5 soac
52.1 njtv
52.3 audio ion
57.1 wpsg
61.1 ion
61.2 qubo
61.3 ion life
65.1 wuvp
65.2 wfpa
post #3544 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by forceten1 View Post

I found out my one older 60" HD projection tv only has two analog OTA tuners, but no digital.

Whats a cheap decent digital tuner I can buy? if anyone uses one...

Well, a CECB like the Tivax STB-T9 (or the newer STB-T8) work just fine for this but with a 60" set, I don't think you'll be happy with the quality of the NTSC-Composite output (who knows, maybe you're not fussy). CECB's weren't allowed to have component outputs, but I'm sure your set can accept component in. An ATSC tuner with component out is a much more rare beast (kind of a specialty item these days). If you could find a working used DTVPal DVR or Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR cheap on Ebay, that's one solution - one with a dead drive may still be able to be used as an ATSC tuner alone.

I actually owned (and still do) a stand-alone ATSC tuner with component output, a Motorola HDT-101, which I'd give you for free, but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy or my best friend because it hangs if you attempt to scan Fox 29 with it, so the only way to use it is to manually (and laboriously) scan-in every channel EXCEPT 29. Then you can use it... but you can't watch 29!
post #3545 of 3806
post #3546 of 3806
I see the cm-7000 and also the samsung 260 both out there - but both a bit of money for used units.

I see one Channel Master CM-7001 for $100 It has component outputs (that I can use for my big tv and still get HD channels on it - SD would suck).

Is the 7001 a decent tuner? or something I need to stay away from?
post #3547 of 3806
I am curious if anyone might know a cause for my very weak UHF signals for the last three or four weeks. Channel 6 on low VHF is reliable, and channel 17 will usually lock though with drop outs (I do not have proper antenna for 12). But all of the higher UHF signals are terrible. I suppose it could be due to weather changes or tree budding (all of philly reception is 1-edge, and a sharp edge at that) but I was curious if it might be some planned power reduction at the antenna farm. I do not have a second tuner to compare with, but have just ordered a HDHR-3 to compare. Thank you.
post #3548 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootofjesse View Post

I am curious if anyone might know a cause for my very weak UHF signals for the last three or four weeks. Channel 6 on low VHF is reliable, and channel 17 will usually lock though with drop outs (I do not have proper antenna for 12). But all of the higher UHF signals are terrible. I suppose it could be due to weather changes or tree budding (all of philly reception is 1-edge, and a sharp edge at that) but I was curious if it might be some planned power reduction at the antenna farm. I do not have a second tuner to compare with, but have just ordered a HDHR-3 to compare. Thank you.

May I ask if you've had good UHF reception in the past during the leaf-bearing months (with the same antenna/tuner setup)? If not, and especially if the condition is worse on windy days, I'd put the blame squarely on the trees. They cause multipath when the leaves are out, and as they sway in the breeze, the multipath delay shifts continuously, outwitting the multipath coping algorithms in ATSC tuners. I find I need to adjust my UHF antenna orientation slightly in the spring, and again in the autumn, to maintain the best signal. Also note that newer tuners are more sophisticated in dealing with multipath, so there will be variation in this effect from tuner to tuner.

If, OTOH, this was not a problem in prior years, then I have no explanation.
post #3549 of 3806
Quote:


If, OTOH, this was not a problem in prior years, then I have no explanation.

Trees grow every year. That branch that was just out of the way last year might now be causing problems because it has grown since last fall.

I observe tree-related problems starting in late winter as the sap starts to rise. Once the trees leaf out, the number of tree-related problems really takes off.
post #3550 of 3806
What are some ways to tackle the multi-path problem if it is related to leaves on the trees. I've noticed a slight increase in pixelation on a few of my weakest channels in the past few weeks. What I was planning to try was to add a rotor and try to raise the antenna height a few feet. Are these good ideas? any others?
post #3551 of 3806
Just wait until the next windy rainstorm comes by...

Trim the tree or move the antenna are the two things that work best.
post #3552 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank70 View Post

May I ask if you've had good UHF reception in the past during the leaf-bearing months (with the same antenna/tuner setup)? If not, and especially if the condition is worse on windy days, I'd put the blame squarely on the trees. They cause multipath when the leaves are out, and as they sway in the breeze, the multipath delay shifts continuously, outwitting the multipath coping algorithms in ATSC tuners. I find I need to adjust my UHF antenna orientation slightly in the spring, and again in the autumn, to maintain the best signal. Also note that newer tuners are more sophisticated in dealing with multipath, so there will be variation in this effect from tuner to tuner.

If, OTOH, this was not a problem in prior years, then I have no explanation.

My memory is not great, but I do not recall having this much trouble - four weeks with almost no reception of UHF. Usually, dry and windy winter days are when I have dropouts. KYW used to be a sure thing, and it does not lock most of the time now. Also, there are zero obstructions or trees. The knife-edge I have is a mountain about a mile away, and it has trees. My only conclusion is we have had so many dry, red-flag days, and somehow the dryness is affecting signal badly.
post #3553 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootofjesse View Post

My memory is not great, but I do not recall having this much trouble - four weeks with almost no reception of UHF. Usually, dry and windy winter days are when I have dropouts. KYW used to be a sure thing, and it does not lock most of the time now. Also, there are zero obstructions or trees. The knife-edge I have is a mountain about a mile away, and it has trees. My only conclusion is we have had so many dry, red-flag days, and somehow the dryness is affecting signal badly.

Perhaps you are correct about no trees, but remember that multipath is about obstruction; it results because of a reflected signal (off a tree or building or whatever) that gets to the antenna (from any angle, not just the direction the antenna's pointing) via a longer overall path than the direct signal (refracting over that mountain), and thus arrives later. It could be from trees in a neighbor's yard or nearby wooded area. When the reflected signal (which could possibly be stronger than the direct) is at a constant delay, modern tuner design can choose the stronger signal through signal processing. When the delay varies over time (as trees wave about), the tuner can't cope, thus dropouts or total signal loss.

ADTech is correct, the whole geometry can change from year to year.

My coping mechanism is slight adjustment of antenna direction (I mean very slight) to try to null out all but the strongest signal. Of course, higher is better, but I prefer to keep my antenna in my attic to avoid deterioration due to weather. Most of my troubles went away when a big stand of white pine trees owned by my neighbor were cut down.
post #3554 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank70 View Post

Perhaps you are correct about no trees, but remember that multipath is about obstruction; it results because of a reflected signal (off a tree or building or whatever) that gets to the antenna (from any angle, not just the direction the antenna's pointing) via a longer overall path than the direct signal (refracting over that mountain), and thus arrives later. It could be from trees in a neighbor's yard or nearby wooded area. When the reflected signal (which could possibly be stronger than the direct) is at a constant delay, modern tuner design can choose the stronger signal through signal processing. When the delay varies over time (as trees wave about), the tuner can't cope, thus dropouts or total signal loss.

ADTech is correct, the whole geometry can change from year to year.

My coping mechanism is slight adjustment of antenna direction (I mean very slight) to try to null out all but the strongest signal. Of course, higher is better, but I prefer to keep my antenna in my attic to avoid deterioration due to weather. Most of my troubles went away when a big stand of white pine trees owned by my neighbor were cut down.

I was just about to reply that nothing has changed, and I am in city and higher than other obstructions, but I looked out window and remembered that my neighbor had new roof put on perhaps two months ago. I wonder if it has foil in it. Hmmm.. my free TV days may be over.
post #3555 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootofjesse View Post

I was just about to reply that nothing has changed, and I am in city and higher than other obstructions, but I looked out window and remembered that my neighbor had new roof put on perhaps two months ago. I wonder if it has foil in it. Hmmm.. my free TV days may be over.

Then perhaps you've overlooked something in the signal path that has gone bad - a corroded connection, cracked cable or boot letting moisture in, failing preamp, distribution amp or splitter/combiner, etc.
post #3556 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank70 View Post

Then perhaps you've overlooked something in the signal path that has gone bad - a corroded connection, cracked cable or boot letting moisture in, failing preamp, distribution amp or splitter/combiner, etc.

Everything is indoors and in good condition. Connections were checked. There are no amps. I even removed the channel 6 antenna, connected 4-bay bowtie directly to receiver. I'm guessing, barring some unannounced power reduction, that either my receiver is going bad or environmental factors. Thanks for suggestions.
post #3557 of 3806
They were off the air for a while. Now back at a higher signal strength than before.
post #3558 of 3806
It would appear that I have a receiver problem. I borrowed a CECB from a friend, and it is receiving all channels with very few dropouts. When I switch over to my Zenith CECB, I have either lots of drop-outs or absolutely nothing on signal meter. This appears intermittent, though, as I did have all channels very strong when first powering up. Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
post #3559 of 3806
Yes. Signal is now strong here in South Jersey (08035)
post #3560 of 3806
Hello, I received my HD Home Run this week and have been trying to work out some bugs, just with viewing live TV in Windows XP. I have been having some issues with codecs. I have installed K-Lite codec pack recently. I had to disable VobSub to get rid of horizontal lines. Using FFDshow, I get fairly good performance except on WTXF. I have jitter present and it causes audio glitches and audio out of sync with video. I was just curious if anyone else has had trouble with this with WTXF (42-1). Thanks.
post #3561 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootofjesse View Post

Hello, I received my HD Home Run this week and have been trying to work out some bugs, just with viewing live TV in Windows XP. I have been having some issues with codecs. I have installed K-Lite codec pack recently. I had to disable VobSub to get rid of horizontal lines. Using FFDshow, I get fairly good performance except on WTXF. I have jitter present and it causes audio glitches and audio out of sync with video. I was just curious if anyone else has had trouble with this with WTXF (42-1). Thanks.

I am at work at the moment - but when I get home I will check to see if I get 42-1 and if my hdhr plays it. I'm using win xp also. This codec pack really helped a lot of glitches I had with tv viewing

Combined-Community-Codec-Pack-2011-11-11

What dvr are you using? i played with beyond tv for a bit and myth tv. Playing around right now with sage TV. I'm liking sage so far.


Edit* I just looked back a page or two at my channel list. I don't know what wtxf is but I wasn't getting 42.1 at all on my Chanel
scans. Only channel I'm really still having trouble with is 29 fox. Comes in some days, some days nope
post #3562 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by forceten1 View Post

I am at work at the moment - but when I get home I will check to see if I get 42-1 and if my hdhr plays it. I'm using win xp also. This codec pack really helped a lot of glitches I had with tv viewing

Combined-Community-Codec-Pack-2011-11-11

What dvr are you using? i played with beyond tv for a bit and myth tv. Playing around right now with sage TV. I'm liking sage so far.


Edit* I just looked back a page or two at my channel list. I don't know what wtxf is but I wasn't getting 42.1 at all on my Chanel
scans. Only channel I'm really still having trouble with is 29 fox. Comes in some days, some days nope

To straighten things out, WTXF is the local Fox station, which broadcasts on RF channel 42, but uses a PSIP ID of 29.1 to correlate to its old (analog) position on the dial. Curiously, this is the station that, for years, an old Motorola HT-101 tuner would refuse to scan (i.e.: it would hang the box while scanning RF 42), but in the past month or two, that tuner scans it fine. That means they recently changed encoders from one that generated something slightly off, to one that doesn't. I have a Pinnacle tuner usb stick I might drag out to see if it's having any problem with WTXF at this time (it hadn't in the past.)
post #3563 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank70 View Post

To straighten things out, WTXF is the local Fox station, which broadcasts on RF channel 42, but uses a PSIP ID of 29.1 to correlate to its old (analog) position on the dial. Curiously, this is the station that, for years, an old Motorola HT-101 tuner would refuse to scan (i.e.: it would hang the box while scanning RF 42), but in the past month or two, that tuner scans it fine. That means they recently changed encoders from one that generated something slightly off, to one that doesn't. I have a Pinnacle tuner usb stick I might drag out to see if it's having any problem with WTXF at this time (it hadn't in the past.)


Ahhhh

Yup - as of a few days ago, and still today I can't keep fox scanned in. All three of my tuners. No clue whats going on with them.
post #3564 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by forceten1 View Post

Ahhhh

Yup - as of a few days ago, and still today I can't keep fox scanned in. All three of my tuners. No clue whats going on with them.

Thank you for the CCCP suggestion. While it has similar components to K-Lite, it appears to be configured properly without tweaking. At this point, I am just trying to get live TV working well with WMP and QuickTV app.

However, WTXF 42-1 is still giving me jitter problems. I can see the jitter number jump in FFDshow audio at the same time as I hear an annoying buzz. My only guesses at this point is that there is something wrong with the station's encoders or the high bit rate 720p stream (higher than all other Philadelphia 720p stations) is too much for my 5 year old system (AMD Athlon X2 4000+, 2G RAM, Geforce 210).
post #3565 of 3806
It's been a while since I've visited this post so sorry if this has been mentioned and I missed it. Is anyone having issues with 6.1 ABC? When it switched to VHF, I connected a pair of bunny ears to my UHF antenna and was able to receive it fine. However, over the past couple of months, it has been hit or miss. I am in Southern NJ.
post #3566 of 3806
My 6.1 .2 .3 are all solid and clear now. I had the hardest time getting it in- (if you scroll up through a few pages). Having separate antennas helped 75%. The one VHF is just for channel 6.1 for me. The last little bit I was having 6.1 drop in and out at times. When I added a preamp on the antenna - that fixed that problem.

I have 6.1 solid on two inside TV's and also to a dual tv tuner on my computer network. I knock on wood - but solid for at least the past 2-3 weeks since I added the preamp. I live just outside of princeton NJ
post #3567 of 3806
I wonder if I accidentally messed something up. I was in the attic near the antenna a few weeks back. It's strange that it just stopped working. I also have an amp. I'll check it out.
post #3568 of 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrixx View Post

I wonder if I accidentally messed something up. I was in the attic near the antenna a few weeks back. It's strange that it just stopped working. I also have an amp. I'll check it out.


From all my playing around - I found that the vhf HAD to be in one specific spot to work so well. A little to the right or left and I would lose 6.1 Even a little up or down and it would go bye bye. So I found I guess the sweet spot for me for 6.1

Did you bump or move your antenna? Or did you put something in the attic that wasn't there before? All the other channels on uhf seem to be very forgiving. I could move a few degrees one way or another and they still came in strong. but not 6.1
post #3569 of 3806
This is strange. I didn't do anything (no attic) and 6.1 is working today. This is what seems to be happening. It will work one day and not the next. Maybe I am just barely in range or something. All other local channels (12.1, 23.1, etc.) work perfectly.
post #3570 of 3806
51-1 is labelled WTVE-DT and 51-2 is labelled WTVE-SD. They are both simulcasting the same programming at the moment. Will be interesting to see whether they have two channels of infomercials or something more interesting.
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