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NEC new plasma thread!!! - 42xr4, 50xr5, 61xr4 - Page 5

post #121 of 4647
when you look at picture quality (ie, with it being so close btwn the 2 panels), does the price difference still give the advantage to the Panny?
post #122 of 4647
are there any audio (lip sync) issues that you notice when going through AVR?

also, have you tried out all the inputs? can you use all the inputs individually or are some tied together?

have you tried out the PIP and can you have 2 HD inputs in PIP/split screen? what is your review of the PIP feature?

thanks
post #123 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

The NEC seems to have significantly more light output. It would probably do better in poorly controlled lighting conditions (room with alot of windows for ex.)
than the Panasonic would.

The NEC doesn't have a setting which floats blacks or I haven't found it at least. Not that I'd use it necessarily. The only pic modes available to me while feeding native rate are "default" and "normal". I don't know if the other modes float the black. I'll play with setting a pass-thru mode on my scaler so I can further investigate.

I hardly ever watch in a completely darkened room and my visual memory of this for the Panny would be absent, so there's no use in trying it. I can tell you that the blacks in the picture on the NEC look *ink black* and seem to have gotten better each day with run-in on the panel so far. The sidebars for ESPNHD are very dark grey in the in-between areas behind the logo. I can, of course, adjust the set so that these areas are nearer-black but then I lose too much shadow detail. This is comparable to the way the Panasonic behaved as well. If you take into account the floating black level on the Panny, I'd say they're about equivalent. The sidebars (Panny) were on average very dark grey with low brightness scenes versus looking more ink black when a light scene was on the screen.

Great feedback cpcat, thanks!

I agree not many people watch a plasma in a completely dark room but it is the only way I found to visually determine black level as lighting, i.e. like using a backlight, can fool your eye and make the apparent black level look better. However since you already own a Panasonic and say the NEC black level is comparable, is already a real testament to the quality of the blacks on the NEC.

Another question, does the NEC have an image size and position adjustments in the user menu?

One last request, a while back I asked if you had looked at the Horizontal Gray Ramp test pattern on your AVIA DVD located at Title 1, Chapter 103 (also can be found by menu selecting Chapter 7 - Audio & Video Calibration, Video Test Patterns, Gray Scale & Levels, Grey Steps & Ramps, Horizontal Gray Ramp). It should be smooth with no banding or color shifts across the ramp. The eye is especially sensitive on the dark end. I think it is an easy and one of the most revealing tests for checking a display's quality. It will check the gray scale tracking, color temp variation, contrast and if there is any banding issues (also called false contouring, posterization). I have been noticing many of the recent display reviews in Home Theater Magazine include the results of this test. When you get a chance, I would much appreciate having you check this out. I think you would also find this test very interesting.

If this test looks positive my NEC is going on order!
post #124 of 4647
Please, can anyone confirm that the 50xr5 is PAL N compatible? I saw on the specs that is "PAL compatible", but I don´t know if it is only PAL "B", PAL "M" or PAL "N" or the three of them.

Thanks in advance!
post #125 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson5 View Post

If you are planing on getting Dishnetwork HDTV receiver
you can buy the new MPEG 4 receiver now (no PVR)or if you wait for a month new MPEG 4 receiver with a 350 MB hard drive PVR.
You will find all the information in satellite guys form.
regards

Thanks for that information. I placed my order for DISH only a few days ago. I asked for the STB with two tuners and built-in DVR, and what I was sold is the 942, which I now gather has been superceded by the new box you are describing. I will get on the phone with them and try to change the order. Installation is not until the 10th of this month, so it should be possible to make a change at this point. I count their failure to inform me about the new STB as a bit of deception on the part of DISH, but in this business such practices are not novel, sad to say.

Follow-up: In the last two hours I called DISH to ask about their next generation HD STB. Both their customer rep and their tech rep denied the existence of any plans to replace the 942. They are either being deliberately deceptive or their staff is so ill-informed that they don't even know what new products are on the horizon. I believe from a perusal of the DISH forum that the new product will be called the 962. Now I have to figure out how to get DISH to admit it exists and to sell it to me.
post #126 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan_9 View Post

are there any audio (lip sync) issues that you notice when going through AVR?

also, have you tried out all the inputs? can you use all the inputs individually or are some tied together?

have you tried out the PIP and can you have 2 HD inputs in PIP/split screen? what is your review of the PIP feature?

thanks


I am running my sound through my AVR and have had no lip sync issues to date. mhf I will try and run the grey scale and take a pic for you as soon as I can...(I have two little ones so the time to play is a bit scarce )
post #127 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barraca View Post

Please, can anyone confirm that the 50xr5 is PAL N compatible? I saw on the specs that is "PAL compatible", but I don´t know if it is only PAL "B", PAL "M" or PAL "N" or the three of them.

Thanks in advance!

Checking my owner's manual, it states that the 50XR5 will support PAL-M, PAL-N, PAL 60
post #128 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fax View Post

Imarkoff, thanks for your initial thoughts. Looking to buy my first HDTV as well and the 50XR5 has captured my imagination. I notice your setup is going straight to your AVR with the sound. Have you experienced any lip sync issues from either your STB or your DVD?

Surprised to find no problem with lipsynch using the SD feed from my DTV STB. As noted, I have no DVD player at this time. One of the reasons for purchase of the Yamaha is that it can impose delay on the audio portion, if lipsynch does become a problem.
post #129 of 4647
I know we have all been doing alot of research...NEC wanted a new look for the new year it appears ...They launched a new web site...probably as sweet as there new panels........

WWW.NEC.COM
post #130 of 4647
Great website .
NEC is busy making great TV's .They need to work on their models .
post #131 of 4647
I saw that BIGMAC were you thinking you would get flamed....
post #132 of 4647
Well ... I was expressing my opinion. Hope no one else takes this seriously.

BTW ........ NEC XR4 seems to have a higher MSRP compared with NECXR5 per the NEC website .

Why would that be ?
post #133 of 4647
Yeah... and I noticed that the XM5 has a higher MSRP than the XR5 (by $1500).

Oh, and did you notice that the MSRP for the 50XR5 is $5495, but all the sites I've looked at are quoting the MSRP as $7995. Hmmm...

shane
post #134 of 4647
I sent an e-mail to nec about that and other glitches. The input panel shown for the new Home models "XR" are showing the wrong picture....
post #135 of 4647
http://www.satelliteguys.us/forumdisplay.php?f=43

You will find product specifications discussions of the upcoming dish receivers one without PVR and the 622 with 350 megabytes of storage with dual dual and MPEG 4 over here.
You can see the product specifications over there.
The anouncement will be made in another month or less.
Apparently there is a overstock , abundance of the receivers HD with MPEG 2.If any oneone gets one they canot change it for one year period.

The customers service representatives are simply saying we do not know.
Please do read in the above forum.
regards
post #136 of 4647
The specs shown on the new NEC website do not indicate that the 42xr4 has 2 HDMI inputs. Rather, it says 2 component, svideo and composite. Hopefully, this is a mistake. However, the spec sheet listed under Color Brochures seems to indicate that all 3 models have 2 HDMI inputs. Since I am interested in the 42, this is something that I would definitely like to have clarified.
post #137 of 4647
As noted gliches on the new site..and quite a few.

NEC XR PDF Here
post #138 of 4647
Anybody have a link to the 50XR5 owner's manual yet?
post #139 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan_9 View Post

are there any audio (lip sync) issues that you notice when going through AVR?

also, have you tried out all the inputs? can you use all the inputs individually or are some tied together?

have you tried out the PIP and can you have 2 HD inputs in PIP/split screen? what is your review of the PIP feature?

thanks

No lipsync problems. I'm only using one HDMI input via the Lumagen VisionHDP.

However, if anything, using a scaler should introduce lipsync because of the delay in the extra processing. My scaler has no audio through-put for adding extra audio delay to compensate for this. If I'm not having any problems I can't imagine anyone not adding any extra processing would.

I don't do PIP, sorry.
post #140 of 4647
Can someone please speak about the screen reflectance of this set? How much refectance is there? Try the pencil test:

Take the eraser end of a pencil and hold it aginst the screen. You then will be able to judge the distance between the image on the screen and the actual glass surface the pencil is touching. The greater the distance, the more reflectance the set has, which is a bad thing. This is just another reason why Pioneer Plasmas are so good. The distance between the image and the glass in their latest panels is less than a 1/4"
post #141 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by essogas View Post

Can someone please speak about the screen reflectance of this set? How much refectance is there? Try the pencil test:

Take the eraser end of a pencil and hold it aginst the screen. You then will be able to judge the distance between the image on the screen and the actual glass surface the pencil is touching. The greater the distance, the more reflectance the set has, which is a bad thing. This is just another reason why Pioneer Plasmas are so good. The distance between the image and the glass in their latest panels is less than a 1/4"


And if this fails your pencil test . You will not consider this TV?

Bottomline for everyone is the picture quality.
So far there is enough to suggest that this is an excellent unit. Eqully good if not better than Panasonic .
post #142 of 4647
There's no failure. It's just a reference point. I know my viewing environment will be in bright daylight interiors. I need the least amount of reflectance possible. What I like about this set is that it appears to be better than the Panny's (which I never thought were that great, anyway) and I'm only paying for a display and not a tuner or speakers.

Does this set have a seperate processing box for all the wiring like the Pioneers?
post #143 of 4647
No...the wires are either on the back or on the bottom of the set, depending upon the model.
post #144 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhfnet View Post

Great feedback cpcat, thanks!



Another question, does the NEC have an image size and position adjustments in the user menu?

One last request, a while back I asked if you had looked at the Horizontal Gray Ramp test pattern on your AVIA DVD located at Title 1, Chapter 103 (also can be found by menu selecting Chapter 7 - Audio & Video Calibration, Video Test Patterns, Gray Scale & Levels, Grey Steps & Ramps, Horizontal Gray Ramp). It should be smooth with no banding or color shifts across the ramp. The eye is especially sensitive on the dark end.

If this test looks positive my NEC is going on order!

Yes, there are image size/position adjustments. There are also individual color adjustments for red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, etc. as well as grey scale adjustment via individual RGB gain and bias.

The horizontal grey ramp looks relatively smooth without banding via my scaler. I can still see steps in the pattern though. It's not analog afterall. With the scaler bypassed, there are two thin yellowish bands on the right (darker) side of the ramp but overall it's still fairly smooth. This seems to be fairly similar whether feeding 1080i, 720p, or 480p to the panel via my LG upconverting DVD player.
post #145 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Yes, there are image size/position adjustments. There are also individual color adjustments for red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, etc. as well as grey scale adjustment via individual RGB gain and bias.

The horizontal grey ramp looks relatively smooth without banding via my scaler. I can still see steps in the pattern though. It's not analog afterall. With the scaler bypassed, there are two thin yellowish bands on the right (darker) side of the ramp but overall it's still fairly smooth. This seems to be fairly similar whether feeding 1080i, 720p, or 480p to the panel via my LG upconverting DVD player.

cpcat, thanks for checking this out!

Interesting though that you say that the gray scale ramp pattern has steps as the "ramp" patterns in the AVIA Gray Scale Steps & Ramps menu should be continous however the "step" patterns will have definite steps. Here is a link to a picture I took of the horizontal grey ramp from my Hitachi plasma. Is this the pattern you tested?

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot...g/ppuser/12035

Notice the banding and color shift in the gray scale ramp. This is not good as it results my Hitachi having banding issues as shown in these pictures.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot...g/ppuser/12035
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot...g/ppuser/12035
post #146 of 4647
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by essogas View Post

There's no failure. It's just a reference point. I know my viewing environment will be in bright daylight interiors. I need the least amount of reflectance possible. What I like about this set is that it appears to be better than the Panny's (which I never thought were that great, anyway) and I'm only paying for a display and not a tuner or speakers.

Does this set have a seperate processing box for all the wiring like the Pioneers?

Glare/reflection reduction seem to be strong points for NEC from opinions I've read. I recall reading many negative pdp reflection issues related to other brands though. However, I also recall reading that all plasmas tend to be more reflective than other display technologies. I suspect that NEC would probably be your best option for reduced reflection in the realm of plasmas, but if it's a huge concern then maybe you'd be better off with LCD instead?

On a sidenote, here's some more pics I found for the xr5...

http://www.nec.se/upload/bilder/prod...splay%20_2.jpg

http://www.nec.se/upload/bilder/prod...splay%20_1.jpg

http://www.nec.se/upload/bilder/prod...splay%20_3.jpg
post #147 of 4647
Before I forget again....To all the new NEC owners or anyone who wants to take a chance don't forget to register to win your Home Theater Makeover with NEC. That would be sweet if a forum member won this.

INFO HERE
post #148 of 4647
TahoeJR, thank you very much for the info. Greatly appreciated!
post #149 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhfnet View Post

Notice the banding and color shift in the gray scale ramp. This is not good as it results my Hitachi having banding issues as shown in these pictures.

I don't see those artifacts with normal viewing.

The problem with this test is that you are relying on a DVD source. My DVD player fulfills my needs for now, but there are much better players out there.
Even then, the resolution is still limited.

HDNet test patterns would be better. I'd still be surprised if it was perfectly smooth if both the source and display are digital. I'll bet it would be pretty smooth on a CRT.
post #150 of 4647
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

I don't see those artifacts with normal viewing.

The problem with this test is that you are relying on a DVD source. My DVD player fulfills my needs for now, but there are much better players out there.
Even then, the resolution is still limited.

HDNet test patterns would be better. I'd still be surprised if it was perfectly smooth if both the source and display are digital. I'll bet it would be pretty smooth on a CRT.

I have seen the gray scale ramp test pattern on a Pioneer 5060 and it is very smooth and it shows in actual video material, any shadow or onscreen transistion from light to dark is smooth and natural and this would be the case with any display that shows this test pattern smoothly. That's what is nice about running the pattern as it tells a lot about the PQ without searching for a scene that does something similar.

If a display showed the gray scale ramp pattern with banding and color variation it would definitely need the gray scale tracking adjusted. However if it is very severe it might be almost impossible to adjust it out, like on my Hitachi. If you have ever seen the gray scale plots in the Home Theater Magazine display reviews, a smooth plot results in a smooth gray scale ramp pattern, a jagged plot will result in banding and color variation in the gray scale ramp pattern.

I would be interesting to see a photo of the gray scale ramp from the NEC.
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