NEC new plasma thread!!! - 42xr4, 50xr5, 61xr4 - Page 11

CPCAT, i'll look at that. i have a dedicated (new) line for the HT. all house electrical is new 4 yr old. (connected-xr5-dvd-comcast box- denon 3803) -subwoofer on a different line. I'll look to see if the coax cable needs a ground, they had a copper ground wire on it where the outside cable meets the shorter inside cable (inside the house) , but it wasn't reground after the remolding. Also i'll look at the shorter coax cable connector and make sure it's well connected.
db

I guess I am the only one that has noticed this, but the 42" XR4 has two features that niether the 50" or the 61" have:

"Crystal Clear Panel/Drive" for 130% improved brightness, etc.

"Bonded Color Filter" for improved color and black level...

I read this in the link posted by Cleveland Plasma. What it says to me is that the 42" is the only one of the new NEC's that has the Pioneeer "Crystal Emissive Layer". Comments anyone...if you please...anyone seen the 42" version yet and compared it to the 50???

There was a little discussion of this earlier in the thread somewhere so others did notice it. We weren't sure if meant that it has Pioneer glass or what, but as far as I know, no one has their hands on a 42" yet although a couple of people have one on order so we are anxiously waiting their reviews.

Cleveland Plasma thinks it does not share the Pioneer glass. He said earlier, "The 42" NEC uses its own glass just like the 50". Only the 61 shares the same glass at this point." So I guess we don't know why the different features at this point.

I guess I am the only one that has noticed this, but the 42" XR4 has two features that neither the 50" or the 61" have:

"Crystal Clear Panel/Drive" for 130% improved brightness, etc.

"Bonded Color Filter" for improved color and black level...

I read this in the link posted by Cleveland Plasma. What it says to me is that the 42" is the only one of the new NEC's that has the Pioneeer "Crystal Emissive Layer". Comments anyone...if you please...anyone seen the 42" version yet and compared it to the 50???


I posted this question below back on page 10 post #283. Cleveland Plasma responded to some other questions, but not this one.

My 50xr5 has arrived safe and sound - thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma for taking care of business. Mount is up and cabling is done, but family business will keep me from actually connecting sources and speakers for a couple of days

Meanwhile, here are some bits of info I found while doing the physical inspection:

1)Main module ID (viewed through upper-left grid holes on back of PDP) is a Pioneer NP50X6MF01. A quick google search suggests that this may not be new for '06. @Spur and tomboyter - the plot thickens.

2)Mounting hole locations and screw sizes were spot-on to NEC's installation pdf. Good thing, since I had previously set the wall mount based on these specs. The panel will end up at the exact height I had planned for.

3)The 2 fans are Sanyo Denko 120mm DC with speed control. They're located at top center and toward the top left when viewing the panel from the front. Model number does not show up on the Sanyo Denko website. Not surprising, typical for OEM suppliers.

4)This thing is indeed very handsome - very dark gray with a flat silver banding around the outside. I'm especially happy with this, since I'm replacing a commercial 42, and really like the minimalist look. The silver banding gives the NEC just a bit of class, without being gaudy.

5)The side inputs should be a nice improvement over my last panel's bottom inputs, especially since I'll be using both of those poorly designed HDMI connections. Since the right edge is seen when entering the room, I'll definitely be covering the cables when done with the install.

6)Although I found the expected Made in Japan on the display, did not see a manufacture date. Maybe I just missed it. The model and serial numbers were thoughtfully stickered on the side - a nice touch.

Here's a link to some information on the main module. It's from Pioneer Japan's site (in English) and does a nice job explaining NEC's CCF, Black Stripe and other technologies for those that are interested:

Link Here

From what I've seen from others here, my meager 2.1 mp digicam will not do justice to this display's output (honey, we really, really need a DSLR), but I'll see what I can come up with. As to opinions and impressions, lots more to come in a few days - hope you all do better with the patience thing than I am. I'm really (cough, cough) feeling a sick day coming on!

Dave

Thanks to drgingras, Chris and N8g for the info. The 50xr5 is one of 4 panels I have narrowed my search down to. ( the others being the panny 8uk, 600u and Toshiba hpx)

You guys that buy site unseen fascinate me and I appreciate your sharing.



Well according to drgingras we have our answer. I don't think this changes things much for me because if I follow drgingras post correctly this means the 50xr5 shares the new pio panel. Since I have read many post stating these are almost as good to as good as the panny with regard to black levels maybe NEC's tweaks have gotten them over the hump and thus cpcat's post


None of this however makes my decision easier. When I first found this forum I would read posts from people stating the had been searching for a year and I thought they were crazy. I am about to join this club myself

It's fun to play detective and conclude from this that the Pio 50 = NEC 50, but there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. (i) Like Chris, I too have been told on two occasions by NEC reps and a local installer that the glass is NOT the same between Pio and NEC, not yet anyway. (ii) No one is hiding the fact that Pioneer purchased the NEC plasma operation, which in itself may explain the appearance of the Pioneer name on the main module. It would be more informative to get someone who owns a 50-inch Elite or 5060 to look for the stamping on the main module in such a unit, to see if the two units bear identical stampings. (iii) I think I remember that the Pio 50 and the NEC 50 have slightly different pixel counts. (iv) All sources agree that the associated electronics are NOT the same, between Pio and NEC. Finally, the proof is in the pudding; it's a great panel no matter which of the two excellent parents is responsible. It's a win/win situation.

I've gone back to default color temperature setting at "mid". In spite of the fact that the AVIA grey ramp doesn't look quite as smooth, it provides much more accurate colors. I was back to "wow" again last night with CSI Miami.

Also, "low tone" set to 1 at first seemed to improve the blacks a little, but it's stealing too much shadow detail. Went back to "auto".

I guess I'll stick to my day job afterall.

I'll leave grey scale adjustment to someone who knows what they're doing.

CPCat, can you publish your up to date settings?

I though you'd never ask.

NEC 50XR5 through HDMI inputs, HDMI set to "high" in setup menu

Contrast 48
Brt 36
Sharp 0
Color 28
Tint 31
Color Temp Mid (at default values, all 40)
Pic mode Theater 1
Gamma 2.2
Pedestal 0
Low tone auto

Can anyone with the swivel stand please comment on whether the 50XR5 has power swivel like that of the Hitachi models? Or is it old-fashioned manual swivel?

thanks.

Slightly . . .

Pioneer: 1280X768 NEC: 1365X768 Therefore not the same glass.

OTOH, the lower horizontal count in the Pio does not equate to a diminished PQ. It is stellar.

Sorry if I inferred that the main board was common to the Pio50 and Nec 50. The link I provided refers repeatedly to NEC panels, not Pio. As you stated, Pio has owned NEC since 2004, so a board labeled "Pioneer" in a NEC panel does not imply anything. My only suggestion was that this main board part number could possibly mean that this particular board is not a new product. Then again, maybe they're re-using a model number. As I said, the plot thickens, but the whole story has yet to be told. And, yes, my first impression is that this is a great panel, no matter what the outcome.

Dave

Thanks drgingras, interesting reading. And I noted that while this was a Pioneer site, the descriptions were for the NEC panels. Hmmmmm

What information did you find that leads you to believe that display panel may not be new? I did a quick google search and looked over the web site you posted, but I missed it. I did see a few copyrights of 2005 while some were 2006, but 2005 was only 10 days ago (that long already?). So do you think this glass was used in the previous gen panels, and they just updated the electronics? Just wondering what you found.

Take a look at this one Google Translation - not exactly conclusive either, but this was what caught my attention.

Dave

Hi Dave,

My work blocks any translation pages. Anyway you can copy and paste what this says into a post? Thanks!

It sure does look like the NP50X6MF01 panel was used in the last year's 50XM4 model, which is also similar to the 50XR4 commercial version. I guess just because the panel is the same on this year's 50XR5, it doesn't mean NEC hasn't found a improved way to drive the panel to get better blacks. Panasonic has stated that there excellent blacks are due to how the low level firing of the panel is done. I guess the proof is in the excellent reviews the 50XR5 has been getting.

tony17,

It's a NEC Japan press release dated July 27, 2004. It seems to announce the new (at that time) commercial line of NEC plasmas. The infamous main board is mentioned with the 42 and 50 models. Cut & paste from the press release:

"The plasma display 4 type for business which actualizes the discernment place contrast of industry highest level sale

July of 2004 27th The NEC plasma display corporation

The NEC plasma display this each time, line-up of plasma display for business one newly, the XGA model 3 type (the PX-61XM3J, the PX-50XM4J and the PX-42XM3J) and, the VGA model 1 type (PX-42VM5J) from August 25th of 2004 consecutively, sells the total 4 type at open price.

Merit of the new product is as follows.

(1) Industry highest discernment place contrast actualization
In 50 type XGA models and 42 type XGA models, the new plasma display module which approximately 1.5 times (this corporation former ratio) improvement and electric power consumption approximately 20% (this corporation former ratio) decreases luminous efficiency with the optimization of gas constitution ratio and the adoption of cube type high luminous efficiency cell structure (type turn: Industry highest discernment place contrast 200:1 (at the time of 100 lux) it actualizes the NP50X6MF01/NP42H5MF01) by loading.
(2) Large-sized picture indication of maximum of 305 inches actualization
In addition to the combination of the former 4 aspects and 9 aspects, to actualize the display combination to the maximum of 25 aspects anew, large size display of maximum of 305 inches (at the time of 61 type use) construction possibility.
(3) Largest expression color 4096 gradation 687 hundred million colors actualization
The occasion where the inter- less signal is converted progressively, sampling also the carrier chrominance signal not only the luminance signal, decipherment characteristic of the letter which makes the expression which has the キレ which interpolates to adopt the " MassArea Superior Sampling Technology ", is not the color rainbow straw raincoat possible, is required from business use substantially improvement. In addition, gradation expression of the dark space is improved gamma (gamma) 12 bit conversion processing technology " gamma of revision by the fact that you adopt -12 ", industry highest 4096 gradations, actualizes 687 hundred million color indication suitable image expressions. To collapse black also tend scene such as scene of the room whose monochrome image is dark, being rich, in smooth expression finely indicatory possibility. Furthermore the gradation expression which provides the gamma revision mode of 4 types, adjusts to the image source selective possibility.
(4) Corresponds to various applications the professional use function
which Because the conference system and it corresponds to the needs of presentation use, " the DigitalAccuDevice (R)" (note) 2 systems it loads onto 61 types and 50 types, it actualizes 2 picture functions of the advanced * high picture quality which the child picture is indicated in clearly. In addition, to actualize the multiple interface which makes, the connection with the various image equipment such as loading the DVI terminal which corresponds to the HDCP of the next generation digital interface standard and the BOXPC on the monitor rear adopting the loading possible design possible, in future expandability consideration.


With the NEC plasma display, electronic announcement indicatory and guide in the store and the transportation et cetera with the expansion of the plasma display for business with the line-up renovation of this each time, indicatory use, it is the schedule which keeps aiming toward the guaranty of the share 20% which answers the needs of the customer in, various utilization scenes, such as presentation and the television meeting use in the office and the education system in the plasma display market for business.

Merit and main specification of the new product the annex reference."

Hey, you asked for it

Dave

I was looking forward to buying the NEC 42 VR5 this spring, mostly because it delivered the best picture with a SD source (in my opinion), but now I'm thinking about getting the 42 XR4.

I know that HD plasmas typically don't handle SD sources as well as ED plasmas, so I'm wondering if anyone has any comments about the picture quality of the new XR4s when watching standard digital cable TV. I'd love a HD set, but not if it means sacrificing picture quality while watching SD television.

Any comments would be really appreciated....really. Thanks,
D.

Dave,

I actually have the VR5 and did a review of SD against my new XR5 towards the beginning of this post if you want to read it. Bottom line is the new XR5 handles SD exceptionally well for a 50" HD plasma. At about 10' it is just as good as my VR5. You start getting a little closer than that and the VR5 is a little better. This is probably also due to the screen size difference between 50" and 42" as well, so I am sure the 42XR4 will look great. I think LisaM will be the first to receive the 42XR4 so maybe she can comment once setup.

I agree with your assessment of the VR5 too. In my opinion, it definitely has one of the best SD pic quality you can find. I'm still very much enjoying that panel in the bedroom!

Thanks Tony17, that's very encouraging. It will be interesting to read LisaM's take on it when she gets her 42XR4.

Thanks again,
D.
P.S. I just read your indepth review.... well done and very helpful. Thanks one more time.

I am still awaiting the delivery of the new 42XR4 - hopefully on Friday afternoon.

By now I expected to be the happy owner of a 42XR4 panel-- I ordered from Chris on 12-29-05. The shipment made it from New York to Birmingham via Watkin's arriving on 1-4-06 where they were then supposed to transfer it to another freight company for the local delivery. But as of today Watkin's informed me that they don't know where it is-- the consolation they offered me was that it should show back up in a day or two!

I hope that isn't "normal", since mine will ship from New York as well, but to Indianapolis. A little patience and an otherwise busy schedule will alleviate any nerves. Good Luck!

Thanks to Bob at PlasmaConcepts, my 42XR4 was delivered this afternoon (24 hours after placing my order ). But, in order to install it, I need the mount which should get here in the next 2 days ! Will have plenty of time this week-end to connect my new toy and play with it. Will keep you posted.

So finally ...............
Congratulations !
I guarantee, you will love it

So, is the NEC XR5 last year's model or what?

Last year's model didn't have 2 HDMI inputs. Nor did it accept 1080p through the analog inputs. It didn't have motion adaptive deinterlacing either or at least it wasn't mentioned with the specs/brochure. I think we're safe in assuming the electronics are different.

Whether the panel is different I don't know. Doesn't matter to me much one way or the other at this point with the PQ I'm getting from this thing.