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Mirage Speakers - Page 8

post #211 of 6689
gus6464, thank you for your question and happy to hear about your purchase of the Omni-550s.

While I'm not completely familiar with the current Crown product (I'm a retailer for Electrovoice and Wharfedale Pro), I would say that you are on the right track. Crown has always built a solid product which should surely satisfy. As an owner of separates and then receivers and then separates again, in my opinion, there is no substitute for power.

Sorry for the truncated response but it is late here in Ohio and I can't believe I am still up. Hope that this helps (even a little) and have fun with your new speakers!
post #212 of 6689
Thanks TDI for the info. The Crown XLS402D is rated at 300w@8ohm per channel. I have read in the forums that when dealing with pro amps its better to buy something a more powerful than your speakers can handle as you can turn down the gain to get the same power output which helps a lot with noise. But right now I will be holding off on the receiver as the new Denon hdmi 1.3 receivers are coming out really soon.
post #213 of 6689
TDI, I just sent you a PM.

Jim
post #214 of 6689
Mirage OM owners, I need your help please!! I have an all Mirage Omni setup, Omni 60s, Omni center and Omni Micro for surround. I recently decided to upgrade my speakers and was trying all sort of brands including the Energy RC-30 and found that I am a Mirage fan. No speaker I have auditioned can give me what my Mirages could give me so I decide to go with Mirage again for the upgrade. To make long story short, I am thinking of getting the Mirage OM-7 for front and I am just wondering if this speaker is too large for my room and I have enough space to give it room to breath. My room is L shaped 20 x 17 x 8 but gets narrower where the speaker will be placed and that particular area measures 10' in width. Because of this while I can place the speaker up to 24 inches off the back wall, I could only place them about 4 inches off from the side wall. Is the sound quality going to suffer because of this? Is this going to affect the bass? I am also looking at the OM-9 and wondering how it compares to the OM-7 and whether it is a better choice because of the space constraint? Does putting the speaker close to the side wall affects sound quality of the Mirage OMs? Isn't the space behind the speaker that affects the sound quality and not the sides? Last but not least, if I am unable to find either the OM-7 or the OM-9, how does the new OMD-15 compares to these two strictly in terms of sound quality? Is the OMD-15 timber matched with the OM-C2? Can I use it with my existing Mirages, including the Omni 60 and Omni Micros that I am going to keep for surround and back surround. Please help! Thank you for your time.
post #215 of 6689
I don't have direct experience with the speakers you listed Alex, but yes side walls affect sound as much or MORE than back walls, even mire so with the Mirages, and usually it's a detrimental effect due to the reflections muddying up the sound. Any wall has a boundary reinforcement effect on bass as well. Ideally, they would be at least 2 feet away from any side wall.
post #216 of 6689
alex, another option is to buy some 260s to use in front and put the 60s in back. same series as the others, so no question about timbre matching
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ures/542250059 - these were originally $500 each, google for reviews
http://www.miragespeakers.com/omni260.shtml

I'd suggest you google on reviews for any you're considering and see what they say about placement. You can also check the PDFs of the owners manuals at the old mirage site linked above.

The earlier OM series has speakers on the back, too, hard to imagine placing them near a wall.

you don't mention a sub, that's another place to evaluate your options.
post #217 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

The earlier OM series has speakers on the back, too, hard to imagine placing them near a wall.

Yes, the OM has a speaker on the back too. I can place the speakers 2 feet from the back wall but only 4 inches from the side.
post #218 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

I don't have direct experience with the speakers you listed Alex, but yes side walls affect sound as much or MORE than back walls, even mire so with the Mirages, and usually it's a detrimental effect due to the reflections muddying up the sound. Any wall has a boundary reinforcement effect on bass as well. Ideally, they would be at least 2 feet away from any side wall.

I know you have a lot of experience with Energy and Mirage products so I trust your opinion. I must say though, I have found the bass of the RC-30 much more muddy and undefined compared to the Mirage Omni 60. The RC-30 are placed 22" from the back wall and about 11" from side wall. So going by that I could see how detrimental it could be if I place it close to the side wall. On the other hand, I placed the Omni 60 as close to the wall as I could, just 2 inches from the wall and as far out as 12" and I could not detect any difference in sound. Are the Omnis a lot different than the OMs? I really like the OM-C2 a lot. I have to...no, must find, front speakers that would work in my set up and have sound quality close to the OM-C2 from Mirage family. Any suggestion? While I like the Omni 60 a lot and they seem to work well in my setup, they just can't keep up with the OM-C2.

Have you heard the Omni 550? How do they compare to the Omni 260s? What improvement would I get if I decided to go for either the 260 or the 550s? Do you think they would perform in OM-C2 level? sorry to bombard you with all the questions but I am lost here and don't know what to do.
I emailed Mirage twice but they are not replying. I intend to call them tomorrow.
post #219 of 6689
I haven't listened to those speakers enough (260vs550vsOMC2) to have an opinion whether you would notice the difference/improvement/no-improvement. Mirage is obviously going to tell you that there would be a improvement since it's newer.

I'm surprised you found the bass muddy on the RC30 because the RC30 has much less distortion than the Omni 60 drivers (as per measurements). Room effects are a tricky thing which means nobody will ever agree once they get the same speakers into their own homes.
post #220 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

I haven't listened to those speakers enough (260vs550vsOMC2) to have an opinion whether you would notice the difference/improvement/no-improvement. Mirage is obviously going to tell you that there would be a improvement since it's newer.

I'm surprised you found the bass muddy on the RC30 because the RC30 has much less distortion than the Omni 60 drivers (as per measurements). Room effects are a tricky thing which means nobody will ever agree once they get the same speakers into their own homes.

Maybe the term "muddy" means a bit different to me. What I hear on the RC-30 is not distortion but overpowering boomy bass that is not well defined on most tracks. Voices are clean and distortion free as long as the track does not have a lot of bass in it. I can push the volume on the RC-30 to almost reference level and they play clean on some tracks, and way too boomy on some with a lot of bass in them. BTW, I hear a lot more distortion on the Omni 60 than the RC-30s but only if I push the volume up. That is one of the reason I want to upgrade my Omni 60s.
post #221 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Yes, the OM has a speaker on the back too. I can place the speakers 2 feet from the back wall but only 4 inches from the side.

Just Google it and do the reading, it's a really bad idea.
post #222 of 6689
I just bought a 5.1 setup consisting of Omni 550 fronts, Omni 150 rears which will be wall mounted upside down and Omni C150 center. So far only my 550 and c150 have arrived but after 4 days with the 550's I can safely say that I love these towers. I am in love with their bass output in 2ch music. I have to keep checking that the sub is off. They have the tightest bass I have ever heard from a tower speaker. My room is 12x14 with a completely open side. The best part of it all is that I bought the complete setup for $650 from vann's. My next purchase will be the new yamaha rx-v1800 receiver when its released and an Svs tube sub.
post #223 of 6689
Hi Guys,

There are a few comments here that interested/worry me.

yes side walls affect sound as much or MORE than back walls
also
Ideally, they would be at least 2 feet away from any side wall.
And
I can place the speakers 2 feet from the back wall but only 4 inches from the side.
Guys, I just bought the 550's but have not had a chance to listen to them yet. I never thought about how FAR AWAY from the side walls or the back wall they should be placed.
So my question is. What will happen to the sound reproduction if the 550's are less then 12" away from the walls?
I am not sure if I am able to place the speakers as far from the wall as two feet.
Am I in trouble?
To Gus6464. You have the 550's. How far away from the walls do you have your speakers?

I welcome any and all feed back on this.

Jim
post #224 of 6689


As you can see I do not have any space between the side walls and sound quality is not affected. There is 1.5ft of space between the back an the towers.
post #225 of 6689
gus6464,
I want to post my set up too. How were you able attach such a large image to your post?
post #226 of 6689
Walls does one thing, it reflects sound. The problem with being close to the walls is that the speaker sends out the sound, and then split milliseconds later, that sound bounces off the wall and also heads toward your ear. So you hear the same sound twice separated by a split time. That just confuses your brain into thinking it's just one indistinct sound and you lose the integrity of the quality sound you paid dearly for.

By keeping the speakers away from the wall, the same reflected sound is separated by more time. At a distance of 2 feet, your brain starts to separate the two because the second sound occurs even later, and hears two distinct sounds, the original and a weaker echo. Your brain can intepret the original sound properly and is not tricked into thinking the original sound is also mixed with the echo.

That's basically in simple terms what happens.

Side walls and hard floors will affect the sound. With a Mirage speaker, since it radiates in all directions, it's more sensitive to walls. I'd avoid a Mirage speaker IF I were forced to place it in the corner. I do my best to move it out more if I could. Anything helps
post #227 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDI Driver View Post

The 550's are a definite step up from the original 60 bookshelves. There are certainly similarities with regard to midrange and top end reproduction since they are in the Mirage family, but you will be making a major leap forward in terms of overall dynamic range reproduction. The 550's simply have a huge soundstage - they fill our largest demo room easily without strain (approx. 15' x 30 with 14' ceilings). The new center speaker, being direct radiating, is very nice and I don't find it lacking even though it isn't a 3-way design like the original Omni-CC. Dialog reproduction is natural and intelligible and it keeps up with the 550's during dynamic action sequences at high volume.

I would post some pics, but I'm currently sold out of the 550's (I sold the demos yesterday) - we're a small independent retailer and don't stock up like the big boys. When we get some back in stock, I'll put them up.

How does the new 550 compare to the Omni 260s. I see that the new 550 is 20 lbs pounds lighter than the Omni 260? Why does the Omni 260 weighs 20 lbs more? Thick MDF? better woofer or better components inside? I am thinking of upgrading from Omni 60. What about placement? Are the 550 funky in this regard. Thanks for your help.
post #228 of 6689
warpdrive and gus6464
Thank you for the advice on speaker placement near walls. I will need to take that into consideration when I finally set these up. I live alone so I can try almost any arrangement.

I am just starting out on this home entertainment thing so everything is new. Still need to buy the HDTV and receiver.

My room size is 13 feet wide, 21 feet long with 8 foot ceilings and a side room 10' X 10' with no wall separation.

I bought four of the 550's and the C-150 on sale, like gus6464 did, total $925 then found the discontinued Mirage S-12 sub at V- -n's (can we list web sites?) on sale from $799 down to $499.

550's arrived yesterday and sub comes on Monday. If I had the receiver I would be using the 550's now, can not wait to hear them. I am half way tempted to buy some type of cable and attach the 550's to the audio out on my 27" Toshiba CRT just to hear them.

Gus6464 Thank You for the pic's they ease my mind a lot.

The 550's look fantastic.

Really appreciate the help.

Jim

PS: TDI how are you?
post #229 of 6689
I am certain a majority of folks do not have a room to leave 2 feet from all direction.
post #230 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

gus6464,
I want to post my set up too. How were you able attach such a large image to your post?

I have my pictures up on photobucket and they are the smallest jpegs my wife's D-SLR can take. You get an option where you can copy and paste the code needed to post a picture on a forum, blog, and direct link. The code looks something like:

[IMG]url of photo[/IMG]

Once I get my Omni 150's next week and the macromounts I will post pics of the entire setup. One thing though the center is so huge. It has 2 of the same drivers as the Omni 350's with a tweeter in the middle.

Jim what receiver are you getting?
post #231 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post

I have my pictures up on photobucket and they are the smallest jpegs my wife's D-SLR can take. You get an option where you can copy and paste the code needed to post a picture on a forum, blog, and direct link. The code looks something like:

[IMG]url of photo[/IMG]

Once I get my Omni 150's next week and the macromounts I will post pics of the entire setup. One thing though the center is so huge. It has 2 of the same drivers as the Omni 350's with a tweeter in the middle.

Jim what receiver are you getting?

Thanks.
post #232 of 6689
What are people's opinions regarding the 350's?
post #233 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

How does the new 550 compare to the Omni 260s. I see that the new 550 is 20 lbs pounds lighter than the Omni 260? Why does the Omni 260 weighs 20 lbs more? Thick MDF? better woofer or better components inside? I am thinking of upgrading from Omni 60. What about placement? Are the 550 funky in this regard. Thanks for your help.

From having both lines in our store, and spending considerable time listening to both, I feel the 550 is an improvement over the 260. The 550 has much more dynamic output capability than the 260 did, especially in the bottom end. Mid and high presentation is pretty equal between the two models. Mirage products just seem to have a familiarity to them with regard to those areas. As for the weight reduction, I don't really know. I haven't opened one of the 550's yet to see how it is made and what the quality of components are. I can suspect that it has mainly to do with cabinet construction.

As for placement, it is good to give the Mirage speakers some space to let the omniguide do its thing, but I have seen the picture of your room with the Omni 60's, and if you have been overall happy with the sound, that is all that matters. There are obvioulsy perfect locations for any speaker, but actually being able to do it is another thing. One thing to note about the 550, and any full-range speaker, when put in a corner bass can get muddy. That would probably be my biggest concern with regard to placement.

Hope this helps (even slightly) and best of luck in your decision. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.
post #234 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_In_Boston View Post

PS: TDI how are you?

Jim,

Keeping busy but good. Looking forward to the weekend. Thanks for asking and hope all is well with you.

Best,
TDI
post #235 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDI Driver View Post

.... but I have seen the picture of your room with the Omni 60's, and if you have been overall happy with the sound, that is all that matters. There are obvioulsy perfect locations for any speaker, but actually being able to do it is another thing. One thing to note about the 550, and any full-range speaker, when put in a corner bass can get muddy. That would probably be my biggest concern with regard to placement.

FYI, normally I place the Omni 60 where the Energy RC-30 is. That gives me about 8 -10 inches from the side to play with. They are there now because they are not hooked up. Do you think the 550 are timber matched to the older Omni or OM line?
post #236 of 6689
Alex, I don't see any problem with giving the 550's a try, but then again, I can't predict that it will be an improvement overall (since "improvements" are always subjective and I've never been in your room)

the 2 feet figure is an ideal, and even I don't have that in one of my rooms, but it's something to strive for if you want the absolute best sound.
post #237 of 6689
Thank you, warpdrive. I am going to call Mirage today and see what they say. While I really want the OM-7, I am thinking about ordering both the Omni 260 and the Omni 550 and try them both at my own place with my own ears and ship one of them back. I still doubt these speaker will be in the same league as the OM-C2. I wish I could hear them locally in the greater metro D.C area. Does anybody know Vanns return policy?
post #238 of 6689
While I can say I have arrived where I want to go visually, I am a long way in the audio department. I am going to replace my receiver with Onkyo 805 and My HSU STF-2 with HSU VTF-2 MK 3 in the next few weeks. Maybe I should wait and see what kind of improvement I get with these upgrade before looking to replace the speakers. What do you all think about that?
post #239 of 6689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

FYI, normally I place the Omni 60 where the Energy RC-30 is. That gives me about 8 -10 inches from the side to play with. They are there now because they are not hooked up. Do you think the 550 are timber matched to the older Omni or OM line?

That makes sense. It was early and I was kind of rushed in my response. As for the 550 being matched, I would be inclined to say no since the composites are different on the woofers and tweeter in comparisson to the original Omni and OM series. In fairness, though, they were never on the floor at the same time to find out for sure.
post #240 of 6689
Well, I received a reply from Mirage today and this is what they have to say about placing Mirage speakers 4-6 inches from the side and 24" from the back wall.

"Of course the sound of your speakers will change as you move them closer to or further from the wall., with the bass frequencies most affected by wall proximity. However, because the OM series is OmniPolar, the wall reflections should not be as much concern as it would be with a normal direct-radiating speaker."

This echoes my experience with my Omni 60 when placed close to the side wall.
They also mentioned that the Omni 550 is not timber matched with the OM-C2 but I could use the 550 as fronts. Based on their response and the fact I am running out of choices I am going to give the OM-9 a shot first and then the Omni 260. The 550 is out of the picture. Thank you all for your help.
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