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Mirage Speakers - Page 9

post #241 of 6500
7/20/07 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

However, because the OM series is OmniPolar, the wall reflections should not be as much concern as it would be with a normal direct-radiating speaker."[/b][/i]

that does not make much sense

If they designed the speaker so that side walls are part of the sound, then it would be absolutely necessary to put them beside a wall. If anything, Mirage speakers are more sensitive to surroundings than other speakers, who is contradicted by that quote. If you had a speaker that used a narrow beam to send the sound directly to your ear, then you would have a speaker that was not sensitive to side walls. Mirage speakers are the opposite, and thus side walls would affect the sound more than ever.

I wonder if the customer service guys who manage the techical support know what they are talking about ???
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post #242 of 6500
7/20/07 at 1:39pm
Every review I have read about the Mirage agree with you 100% even though my experience, at least with the Omni 60s, is quite the opposite. Here is the title of the guy at Mirage that I have been corresponding with. If he is a tech support specialist you would expect him to know the product well.

Rod Hammer
Mirage Service Representative
Tech Support Specialist
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post #243 of 6500
7/20/07 at 1:43pm
I placed the RC-30 out 3 feet from the rear wall and 2 feet from side wall to see how they sound. I think it must be how they interact with my room but the bass still is muddy and overpowering. I placed the Omni at the same place and they sound just the same as they do when placed very close to the side wall.
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post #244 of 6500
7/20/07 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

If he is a tech support specialist you would expect him to know the product well.

You would expect so but more than half the time, many of the posters here on avs know a lot more than the average technical support person.
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post #245 of 6500
7/20/07 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

I placed the RC-30 out 3 feet from the rear wall and 2 feet from side wall to see how they sound. I think it must be how they interact with my room but the bass still is muddy and overpowering. I placed the Omni at the same place and they sound just the same as they do when placed very close to the side wall.

That can be explained fairly easily.

The RC 30 has more extension (goes deeper in bass). As you reach deeper in bass, due to a phenomenon called room gain, and room modes, you'll notice certain frequencies getting emphasized. Often, this will make bass sound boomy. If your speakers don't put out those frequencies, then you won't hear the effects of the room as much.. Here's something that explains it http://www.realtraps.com/art_waves.htm

So basically because the RC30 puts out a wider range of frequencies, then there are more low frequencies that will be screwed up by room effects.

This is a BIG problem with subwoofers because as soon as you introduce low frequencies into a room, then you'll hear lots of problems of the bass interacting with the room.
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post #246 of 6500
7/20/07 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

That can be explained fairly easily.

The RC 30 has more extension (goes deeper in bass). As you reach deeper in bass, due to a phenomenon called room gain, and room modes, you'll notice certain frequencies getting emphasized. Often, this will make bass sound boomy. If your speakers don't put out those frequencies, then you won't hear the effects of the room as much.. Here's something that explains it http://www.realtraps.com/art_waves.htm

So basically because the RC30 puts out a wider range of frequencies, then there are more low frequencies that will be screwed up by room effects.

This is a BIG problem with subwoofers because as soon as you introduce low frequencies into a room, then you'll hear lots of problems of the bass interacting with the room.

warpdrive, you da man! I placed my HSU sub by the front wall next to the speakers to see how the bass sound in that particular location and boy, even with moderate volume the entire house resonates. The bass is simply too much and down right ugly. it seems I have a problem at that specific location. Well since I can't upgrade my house, how could I rectify this situation? If I buy bass traps do I place them behind the speakers next to the screen? Thank you for all the help. I appreciate it.
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post #247 of 6500
7/20/07 at 10:04pm
"Gus6464
Jim what receiver are you getting?"

Gus, I still don't know. Mirage and another trusted source say to get a receiver that has 125W to 150W but they both say that if I have to I could go as low as 90W.
I am not sure that I will buy an Onkyo but if I do right now it would be one of these:
TX-SR705 100 watts per channel and 3 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with Faroudja DCDi video processing
TX-SR805 130 watts per channel 3 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with Faroudja DCDi video processing
TX-SR875 140 watts per channel 4 HDMI 1.3a inputs (4 HDMI are over kill for me), Reon-VX Video processing because I have been told that is better then Faroudja.

They sound weak compared to what Gus6464 has.
"From gus6464
The Crown XLS402D is rated at 300w@8ohm per channel".

At this time the above receivers are about all I can afford. Does anyone have any feed back on those receivers?
I need to read more of the opinions in the forums. There are great comments on the 805 and yet some guys are returning them because they run hot.
Now that Onkyo has these new receivers out it will be interesting to see what the other manufactures have coming out.

Now that there is all of the information on placement of the speakers and how close they are to the walls I can have some fun trying different locations. I do know that after reading this in here that I will strive to get my speakers out of the corner.

Gus6464
I noticed in your post # 224 there are no grills on top of the 550's omnidirectional speaker but on page 7 in post #188 there are grills on the 550's. Should the 550's have come with grills? Or are the speakers in post #188 not the 550's?

I need tons of help so feel free to give me any suggestions you have.

I wonder if I am paying to much attention to the HDMI 1.3 issue.

Best wishes,
Jim
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post #248 of 6500
7/20/07 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_In_Boston View Post

"Gus6464
Jim what receiver are you getting?"

Gus, I still don't know. Mirage and another trusted source say to get a receiver that has 125W to 150W but they both say that if I have to I could go as low as 90W.
I am not sure that I will buy an Onkyo but if I do right now it would be one of these:
TX-SR705 100 watts per channel and 3 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with Faroudja DCDi video processing
TX-SR805 130 watts per channel 3 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with Faroudja DCDi video processing
TX-SR875 140 watts per channel 4 HDMI 1.3a inputs (4 HDMI are over kill for me), Reon-VX Video processing because I have been told that is better then Faroudja.

They sound weak compared to what Gus6464 has.
"From gus6464
The Crown XLS402D is rated at 300w@8ohm per channel".

At this time the above receivers are about all I can afford. Does anyone have any feed back on those receivers?
I need to read more of the opinions in the forums. There are great comments on the 805 and yet some guys are returning them because they run hot.
Now that Onkyo has these new receivers out it will be interesting to see what the other manufactures have coming out.

Now that there is all of the information on placement of the speakers and how close they are to the walls I can have some fun trying different locations. I do know that after reading this in here that I will strive to get my speakers out of the corner.

Gus6464
I noticed in your post # 224 there are no grills on top of the 550's omnidirectional speaker but on page 7 in post #188 there are grills on the 550's. Should the 550's have come with grills? Or are the speakers in post #188 not the 550's?

I need tons of help so feel free to give me any suggestions you have.

I wonder if I am paying to much attention to the HDMI 1.3 issue.

Best wishes,
Jim

The 550's come with top grills, I just took them off because I was taking close up pictures of the drivers. The grills are in one of the styrofoam ends. If you don't need HDMI 1.3 I would look into the Yamaha RX-V661. Yamaha's have been known to have some pretty powerful amps in their recievers when compared to other brands in the same range.

I am going to wait for the new Yamaha 1.3 receivers to come in september. One I will be looking into is the RX-V1800. I decided to not go with separates as the new Yamahas look very stacked for the price and will be quite powerful. Especially when the 550's are some pretty efficient speakers to begin with. Here is a picture with some specs of the rx-v1800 http://www.avland.co.uk/yamaha/rxv1800/rxv1800.htm
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post #249 of 6500
7/21/07 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

how could I rectify this situation? If I buy bass traps do I place them behind the speakers next to the screen? Thank you for all the help. I appreciate it.

No problem, I'm glad I could help.

Unfortunately there is no easy answer. I use electronic equalization to help fix my bass problems. Bass traps are definitely one way, but they are sure ugly and cost a lot to do right. That link I posted has lots of good hints.

Before you do anything, analyze your room
http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm
Get a sound meter and graph the response of your room to figure out what the extent of your problem is.
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post #250 of 6500
7/21/07 at 3:28pm
Anyone have experience with the Omni 350's?
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post #251 of 6500
7/21/07 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekonyk View Post

Anyone have experience with the Omni 350's?

I was going to get the Omni 350's for my surrounds but my wife didn't like the idea of having towers right next to the couch so I went for a pair of 150's instead. But the 350's use the same exact drivers that the C150 center uses. I would guess that the 350's have less punch in the low end compared to the 550's but the mids and highs should be exactly the same.
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post #252 of 6500
7/21/07 at 5:54pm
Thread Starter 
Alex Solomon started a recent discussion on comparing OM series with Omni series. That question never actually received answer. I looked all around the net, no series review is found. Anyone had any luck?
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post #253 of 6500
7/31/07 at 10:13am
three weeks ago I purchased the 550's with the c150 and 4 150's to replace my polk rti70 set-up.i couldn't pass up the price from crutchfield.
i am using a denon 3805 receiver and am quite impressed with the speakers so far. clear dialogue and a very deep and wide sound stage.i am still playing around with e/q and levels and Mirage recommends 100 hours of break in before final tuning so i am expecting some improvement over the next few weeks.the most noticable difference from the Polks is the sense of envelopment that you get with the Mirage speakers. even running just the fronts in stereo, the 550's have a much broader and deeper sound then the polks.
the 150's as surround speakers although large and somewhat intrusive (i have them mounted upside down on the side and back wall about 7 feet from the floor) are spectacular,by far the best surround speakers i have ever heard ( i have 4 other sets including the old mirage OMR's).
last friday i had the chance to listen to a set up with the OMD 15's , the matching center and the OMD 5's as surrounds at a local B/M. At more then 4 times the price of the 550 set up, the OMD15's were definitely better although it could have been the $10,000 of Bryston pre-amp and amp driving the speakers and the room treatments.the sound was even clearer and more coherent then the 550 set up in the room next door.if i had the money i would have bought the OMD 15 set up but one can't have everything. the manager of the store did say that he thought that the 550's were fantastic value and i would have to agree with him , especially at the price i paid.
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post #254 of 6500
7/31/07 at 10:27am
I am surprised you found the 150 better than the OM-R2s. I also have an all Mirage Omni set up but I am slowly moving to the old OM line as I find the OM-C2 to be a fantastic speaker and want the fronts to be from the same OM line.

Any Mirage OM owners who want to upgrade, let me know if you have a mirage OM-9 you want to get rid off.
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post #255 of 6500
7/31/07 at 11:20am
I am also loving my new Omni 550, C150 and 150 setup as well. I have my 150's mounted upside down on the back corner right above the couch and they sound fantastic. What I love the most is playing 2ch music on my 550's. I find the bass very tight and they seem to go pretty low but I have yet to measure the actual bass response. For the price I paid at vann's I don't think I could have a better setup. Now all I need is a new receiver but I am waiting for the new Yamaha's to come out this fall.

Here are some pics of the setup:
550 mains and C150


150 rears upside down
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post #256 of 6500
7/31/07 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

I am surprised you found the 150 better than the OM-R2s.

I'm not. They used good components in that line, but the design of that speaker reflects the compromises of something meant to be wall mounted and unobtrusive (unlike the 150!), and an early version of one at that. It's not really omnidirectional. And those side firing tweeters aren't really ideal IMO.

Not to say that someone might not like one or the other, just that the R2 is far from the last word in surrounds.
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post #257 of 6500
8/2/07 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

I am surprised you found the 150 better than the OM-R2s. I also have an all Mirage Omni set up but I am slowly moving to the old OM line as I find the OM-C2 to be a fantastic speaker and want the fronts to be from the same OM line.

Any Mirage OM owners who want to upgrade, let me know if you have a mirage OM-9 you want to get rid off.


i had the pleasure of meeting the then owner of API-- Mirage's parent about 4 years ago and he thought that the OM-c2 was his best as long as it was placed in the open. i have an l/c/r set up of OM -c3's in bookshelves with the OMR's in a small room and the front sound stage is seamless-- a strong arguement for matching l/c/r speakers.3 OM-c2's across the front with a good sub would be awesome.
incidentally i watched the latest x-men flick last night and the DTS ex discrete 6.1 audio from the blue ray disc played on a ps3 into the denon 3805 and the mirage 550 set-up was stunning .my wife who rarely notices such things thought the sound was better then a movie theater--- i think she was right and for only $805 US for the whole speaker set-up.
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post #258 of 6500
8/3/07 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

I am surprised you found the 150 better than the OM-R2s. I also have an all Mirage Omni set up but I am slowly moving to the old OM line as I find the OM-C2 to be a fantastic speaker and want the fronts to be from the same OM line.

Any Mirage OM owners who want to upgrade, let me know if you have a mirage OM-9 you want to get rid off.

OM-C2 is a beast, but placement is near impossible in the flat screen world. Mine worked wonderfully sitting atop my 56" RPTV, but it's now in my closet sitting next to my OM-6's and OM-R2's. I really miss that setup but had to retire it once I bought my own place and asthetics mattered...
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post #259 of 6500
8/4/07 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenMSmith View Post

OM-C2 is a beast, but placement is near impossible in the flat screen world. Mine worked wonderfully sitting atop my 56" RPTV, but it's now in my closet sitting next to my OM-6's and OM-R2's. I really miss that setup but had to retire it once I bought my own place and asthetics mattered...

What is your current setup?
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post #260 of 6500
8/4/07 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

What is your current setup?

Well, none, b/c that's what I'm trying to figure out right now. I have 60" plasma on the wall as of last week, but no audio other than the TV itself.

I need on-walls all the way around for this particular room and am probably going to go back to Definitive Tech's, where I started way back when, b/c their Mythos series is more appealing to me than anything on-wall in the Mirage series. But I'll be keeping my Mirage sub (Substrata 1000) at least.
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post #261 of 6500
8/4/07 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenMSmith View Post

Well, none, b/c that's what I'm trying to figure out right now. I have 60" plasma on the wall as of last week, but no audio other than the TV itself.

I need on-walls all the way around for this particular room and am probably going to go back to Definitive Tech's, where I started way back when, b/c their Mythos series is more appealing to me than anything on-wall in the Mirage series. But I'll be keeping my Mirage sub (Substrata 1000) at least.

I hear you. The reason I am looking at the OM-9 instead of the OM-7 is that I don't have the required space to really make the OM-7 work in my room. I can see why your OM-6 would be quite difficult to set up.
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post #262 of 6500
8/8/07 at 8:32pm
Hi,

I have a question.

I am thinking of buying the new Onkyo 805 receiver. I want it for the 130 watts and the three HDMI 1.3 inputs. The audyssey speaker calibration was also a plus.

The problem is, I was just in the "Official" Audyssey thread and there was a post from someone that said.
"Has anyone used the Audyssey set-up with Mirage speakers? Was wondering how this would work with the Omni directional type speakers.I was told by someone at Mirage it can be more difficult with the Omni type speakers. But I have heard that Audyssey is very different from the other auto set-up systems".

That man did not get a reply to his question so I am turning here for the answer.

I have the Mirage Omni series and I was wondering of anyone has the new Onkyo 805 or higher. If you do can you please let me know if you were able to use the audyssey calibration or if it was a useless feature.

I still want a receiver that has a large amount of watts and HDMI 1.3 but if I am wasting my money getting the 805 I can start to research some other receivers.

Could someone please give me feed back on this. I am starting to feel as if I am in overload with so much information and that maybe I need to sit back and digest what I have already read.

I just want to know about the receiver so if it goes on sale I will know if I should pounce on it or get something else.

I already have the Mirage Omni speakers, 550's, CC and Sub and I just ordered the OPPO 980.

So this receiver plays a big part in my system.

Thanks for any info you can send to me.


Jim
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post #263 of 6500
8/11/07 at 8:37am
I have an 805 with the Mirage OMD-15 and OM-9 speakers. It powers them more than sufficiently and the Audyssey works very well. I agree OMNI speakers can be difficult for EQ because of tha reverb, but in my experience Audyssey does work. The only knock on most Mirage speakers is the peak in midbass region. The Audyssey tones that down perfectly and doesn't touch much else.

The only thing you want to do after the septup is make sure you go back and set the speakers to small with your desired crossover. Audyssey will set them to large if they can dip under 80hz even though the speakers are not really full-range.
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post #264 of 6500
8/11/07 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottd327 View Post

I have an 805 with the Mirage OMD-15 and OM-9 speakers. It powers them more than sufficiently and the Audyssey works very well. I agree OMNI speakers can be difficult for EQ because of tha reverb, but in my experience Audyssey does work. The only knock on most Mirage speakers is the peak in midbass region. The Audyssey tones that down perfectly and doesn't touch much else.

The only thing you want to do after the septup is make sure you go back and set the speakers to small with your desired crossover. Audyssey will set them to large if they can dip under 80hz even though the speakers are not really full-range.

How does the OMD-15 compare to the OM-9?
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post #265 of 6500
8/11/07 at 9:11am
Yes, I'd also like to know how the new OMD-15 compares to the OM-9 as a former 9 owner and possible 15 buyer in the future.
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post #266 of 6500
8/11/07 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottd327 View Post

I have an 805 with the Mirage OMD-15 and OM-9 speakers. It powers them more than sufficiently and the Audyssey works very well. I agree OMNI speakers can be difficult for EQ because of tha reverb, but in my experience Audyssey does work. The only knock on most Mirage speakers is the peak in midbass region. The Audyssey tones that down perfectly and doesn't touch much else.

The only thing you want to do after the septup is make sure you go back and set the speakers to small with your desired crossover. Audyssey will set them to large if they can dip under 80hz even though the speakers are not really full-range.


Hello Scott,

Your post came just in time. Circuit City finally allows people in my area to back order the Onkyo 805 and I was just going in there to order it when your post came in.

Thank you for the reply. Even though I decided to get the 805 I feel better knowing that I can use the Audyssey set up.

"The only knock on most Mirage speakers is the peak in midbass region. The Audyssey tones that down perfectly and doesn't touch much else."
That is great to hear.

"The only thing you want to do after the septup is make sure you go back and set the speakers to small with your desired crossover. Audyssey will set them to large if they can dip under 80hz even though the speakers are not really full-range". That has been mention a lot in most of the forums I am in.

More questions:

1. After I use audyssey and go back to set the speakers to small do I use audyssey again or would that be really stupid?

2. What are you using for a crossover?

Some guys in the forums say to use a crossover of 80 and some suggest 120 so that audyssey will allow the sub to have more bass.

I am really new to all of this so my questions may be basic to most guys, but they are concerns to me.

Scott, again thanks for the reply and now it is time for me to order this puppy. A rather large heavy puppy.



Jim
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post #267 of 6500
8/11/07 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_In_Boston View Post

Hello Scott,

Your post came just in time. Circuit City finally allows people in my area to back order the Onkyo 805 and I was just going in there to order it when your post came in.

Thank you for the reply. Even though I decided to get the 805 I feel better knowing that I can use the Audyssey set up.

"The only knock on most Mirage speakers is the peak in midbass region. The Audyssey tones that down perfectly and doesn't touch much else."
That is great to hear.

"The only thing you want to do after the septup is make sure you go back and set the speakers to small with your desired crossover. Audyssey will set them to large if they can dip under 80hz even though the speakers are not really full-range". That has been mention a lot in most of the forums I am in.

More questions:

1. After I use audyssey and go back to set the speakers to small do I use audyssey again or would that be really stupid?

2. What are you using for a crossover?

Some guys in the forums say to use a crossover of 80 and some suggest 120 so that audyssey will allow the sub to have more bass.

I am really new to all of this so my questions may be basic to most guys, but they are concerns to me.

Scott, again thanks for the reply and now it is time for me to order this puppy. A rather large heavy puppy.



Jim

Jim, I have a Mirage Omni 60, OM-C2, Omnisat Micro and Energy RC-30. With my previous HK receiver the bass was boomy, overwhelming and undefined even though I have the speakers out 16 feet from the rear wall but only about 6 from the sides. The Oknyo 805 and the Audyssey changed all that. The Eq made wonders and took care of my room response and bass problem. The sound is now just wonderful. I am still looking to upgrade my fronts. As for your other questions:
1. No need to run the Audyssey again.
2. 80 Hz for the front three and 120 hz for surround.
I set up my sub and speaker level manually with Avia and SPL after I run the Audyssey.
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post #268 of 6500
8/11/07 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Jim, I have a Mirage Omni 60, OM-C2, Omnisat Micro and Energy RC-30. With my previous HK receiver the bass was boomy, overwhelming and undefined even though I have the speakers out 16 feet from the rear wall but only about 6 from the sides. The Oknyo 805 and the Audyssey changed all that. The Eq made wonders and took care of my bass problem. The Oknyo 805 and the Audyssey changed all that. The Eq made wonders and took care of my room response and bass problem. The sound is now just wonderful. I am still looking to upgrade my fronts. As for your other questions:
1. No need to run the Audyssey again.
2. 80 Hz for the front three and 120 hz for surround.
I set up my sub and speaker level manually with Avia and SPL after I run the sound is now just wonderful. I am still looking to upgrade my fronts. As for your other questions:
1. No need to run the Audyssey again.
2. 80 Hz for the front three and 120 hz for surround.
I set up my sub and speaker level manually with Avia and SPL after I run the Audyssey.


Thanks for the info. These forums are fantastic for guys like me.


Jim
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post #269 of 6500
8/11/07 at 3:08pm
Note the correction in my post. Some sentences are repeated by error.
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post #270 of 6500
8/14/07 at 1:42pm
a 120 crossover runs the chance of making the subwoofer localizable.

And if initial Audyssey EQ 'thinks' that your main channels cross over at 120, it seems to me that there must be some effect on EQ if you reset them to 80, even if you adjust channel level manually. Wouldn't you want Audyssey to analyze the 80-120 region of your main channels, and apply EQ as needed?
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