Mirage Speakers - Page 151

Well I just pulled the trigger on the OMD-5 as the prices are just too good to ignore. I bought two to replace the nanosat's in my system and i'm hoping it proves to be a significant upgrade. My wife may not like the larger size of the OMD-5's but hopefully she'll come around after she hears them.

Anybody share their upgrade experience from nano's to OMD-5? I'm excited, but not looking forward to break-in. Has anyone really busted up the drivers from not breaking them in properly?

Usually people's comments about "night and day" difference are over the top, but in this case it's true. Honestly, the Nanosat is pretty limited. The next level up, the Omnisat or OS3, is a decent speaker. The OMD5 is another level up, and a very nice speaker. The size is a big part of what makes that possible, plus the quality of the build. It's a big upgrade.

Break in is probably a myth. (At least for the speakers. Sounds like your wife might need some time ...) If you're concerned, don't turn the volume to 11 for a while. Otherwise, just enjoy the new speakers.

Cool I can't wait.

I've been using the nano's for surrounds and they have always kinda held back the system (epos 12.2 FR/FL, Servo15) but were a decent solution as I have less than ideal placement (& financial) options. They sit on a sofa table behind the couch and this was a far better option than direct radiators which I always felt sound sounded too localized. It will be interesting to see how much larger these are in person and I hope they don't look too out of place on that table.

Got a HK avr3600 (replacing AVR135) on the way as well so these will be my last upgrades for a while. Should be a big upgrade!

Although there are differences in opinion on the subject of break in, I would not ignore what Mirage states in their manual. They require the speakers to be broken in for at least 100 hours before they are played at full volume. I have just received a new pair of OMD-5s from Vanns last week. I listened to them for sometime at lower volume levels and then used the weekend to start the break in process. At only 50 hours there was a huge difference in sound. Just my 2 cents.

Secondly, these speakers put my massive Infinity Beta towers to shame. They cannot play the bass levels of course, but the mids and highs are awesome. These speakers sound so good that I moved my towers out and just have the OMD-5 speakers with a sub. Next I will order the OMD-C1. The OMD-15s should be in around the November time frame according to Vanns. I am praying that this holds true since I am converting over to these models.

Thirdly, these speakers like power. I have to turn them up a little loader than my older Infinity Beta towers and my Emotiva amp runs a little warmer with the 4 - 6 ohm load. Make sure you have a good amp to drive these if possible.

HK have good amp sections and should be a good match for these speakers.

I'm surprised to hear that they are getting another shipment of these speakers. Considering these have been discontinued for some time, I wonder where this mysterious supply is coming from? When I ordered mine a few months ago, the Vann's rep said they bought all that Mirage has left. Guess that isn't true if they're getting more.

Anyhow, regarding break-in, I didn't follow any official procedure, but I did try not to play them TOO loud for several weeks. I must say that at first I was somewhat disappointed with how they sounded, but now that they have broken in they sound much better. I've never had speakers before that needed significant break-in, but it seems that these really do before sounding their best.

Made that jump myself. I didn't realize what mid and bass I was missing with the nanosats. They did a great job with high end though, but there was a missing gap between that and the where the sub picked up.

The OMD5's are excellent! Love everything about them and with a good quality audio feed like blu-ray they are amazing! Now of course I'm curious what I'm missing with the OMD-15's. It's a never ending cycle.

Who's made that jump from omd-5 to omd-15? I have the C1 and it is absolutely perfect, except the OMD-5's sound 'smaller' now then they did when i was using the omd-5 as a center.

The break-in just makes since to my mind. Speakers are like electro-magnetic motors that move when electricity is applied. I am no expert, but it seems that the rubber surrounding the speaker takes time to gain the proper elasticity. I don't know how accurate this is, but it makes since to me.

Now regarding the OMD-15s order from Vanns. I will contact them tomorrow to find out the scope. I contacted them before I started ordering any OMD speakers to make sure that they would be receiving this model again since it is listed as "On Order". They said at the time that they would be receiving more units in November. I will keep you guys posted. If someone from Vanns or who has more info, please feel free to chime in. If they do not get any more, I may have to step up to the still expensive OMD-28s. I want a tower speaker from this line to complete my set. I want to retire my sub again since I am in an apartment. I want a full range sound, but no booming bass.

If Vann's is not getting any more look in the clearance section at Vann's. I have both the 15 and 28's and am very happy with them. Good luck.

John

There are a lot of other threads that cover break-in in detail, if anyone is really interested in it, it's covered much better than it ever will be here - so those would be worth a look.

But if Paul Scarpelli of Triad says break-in is not required, that's good enough for me.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...k#post17989193

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...k#post17035647

"I agree with the manufacturers who think playing five minutes of vigorous program material does 90% of the break-in. The temperature and humidity in a room make a bigger difference beyond that first five minutes, and it still isn't much."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...k#post16785426

The main point is, things that will or won't damage your speakers when they are new, also will or won't damage the speakers when they are used. That's what you want to be aware of, and avoid - clipping, distortion, etc.

Also, all these discussion about fine points seem to make everyone lose track of the important issues.

Things that matter a lot:

- speakers
- placement in the room
- the room
- settings
- and a reasonably decent source and receiver or amp

Things that don't matter as much, and depend on lot on what you want out of a system and how you use it:

- amplification
- finer points of the source electronics

Things that don't matter

- cables
- break in

And of course to the non-system-obsessed, what really matters is what you're feeding in. Which is why for most people a Squeezebox or something is a much better place to spend money than any of those things.

I am not trying to argue for or against break in. I just want to follow what the manufacturer recommends listed in the users manual below:



BREAK-IN PROCEDURES
It is VITAL that your new OM Design speakers be allowed to break-in
properly before you perform any precise set up procedures, system
adjustments, and before you play them at higher volume levels.The best
method of performing the break-in is to play a full range musical passage at a
moderate level as long as possible. Utilizing the repeat function on your CD
or DVD player can assist greatly. Optimum sound will not be achieved until
approximately 100 hours of playing time.After break-in, the volume level can
be increased. Do not play the speakers at high levels until the break-in
process has been completed.The transducers need to loosen up, and until
this occurs, damage can result to the transducers.




I would hope that the maker performed some real testing to verify that their product requires break-in. I would assume that Mirage has performed such a test. I do know that every speaker that I have ever purchased sounds much better after a reasonable break in period.

Secondly, I have no desire to take sides in this dispute between audio engineers/ companies. Please remember that some of the people arguing these points engineer speakers for a living. They are saying different things and I would be foolish to jump into their dispute and take sides. I respect these people, but at the end of the day somebody is wrong partially or entirely. The risk out way the benefits in my case.

Now back to the subject at hand with OMD shipments. I have received the following response from Vanns:

Thanks for your inquiry as we look forward to the opportunity of earning your
business.

It's showing the date we have from Mirage as to when we'll have the OMD15's
back in stock would be the 25th of this month. They are discontinued, however,
we are still receiving shipments from the manufacturer. If you'd like, I can
sign you up to be notified via email when they come back in. Otherwise, you can
always check the site periodically for updated inventory availability.

If you have any other questions, feel free to email me back.

Respectfully,



Dustin Texley
Product Specialist
www.vanns.com
800-769-5668

I can't wait.

Good post.

Mr. Scarpelli is a sharp guy.

Thanks, WTF. I get lost in the woods a lot here myself. It's fun sometimes, but not the way to decide where to spend time or money.

NETPCTECH, no one has ever been able to explain how playing a new speaker loud might damage it.

Also, the break in idea works great for Mirage, because it gets people to keep the speakers long enough to appreciate them.

If Mirage really wanted to help buyers, though, they'd give them better advice about placement. What they give is fine for certain users, maybe mass-market, new users, and to some degree you can put them anywhere. But it's not really going to give the best sound, and leads to some of the problems people have with too many reflections, experiencing the speakers as too bright, etc.

So I can't say I have too much confidence in the Mirage manuals. But I like the speakers a lot!

Agreed. Speaker break-in is suspect at best. I need hard lab data to show the differences before I will totally understand it. Its easy for vendors and experts to give opinions or recommendations, but without controlled testing it is hard to get at the facts over fiction. I will continue to follow the manufacturers data because I have heard improvements. This is what matters after all is can you hear the difference.

Speaker placement for me has been much less of a problem with the Mirage. I have owned several speakers in the past that I have to spend days moving around to get the best sound. I just find it easier worrying about proper distances from walls than dealing with all the tow in and corner placement issues with other speakers.Since the sound is dispersed so wide, I have a much easier time with finding the sweet spot. Again, these are only my opinions. I would probably be saying something different if I had a room with hard surfaces all around.

I actually went from OS3's to OMD-5's, and even that was a night and day difference IMO. Granted, I suspect the long pole in that difference was going from using an OS3 as a center to using the OMD-C1.

Regardless, as you said the size makes a huge difference. While they certainly aren't hitting low, they hit low enough that you can get a nice blend with a sub at around 80Hz. Using the the OC3's, you had to chose between localization of bass from your sub (assuming it can even hit high enough), or a black hole from 80-120Hz or so. I suspect the difference from Nano's will be even more dramatic.

I just purchased the OMD 15, OMD 5, OMDR, OMDC1, and Sub combo pack. I had Vanns ship all the speakers except the OMD15's until they arrive. At least I can use the OMD 5's as fronts until my towers arrive, then they will be moved to height channels. I really hope the OMDR's were worth the extra money.

I dont see that package on the Vanns website. When did you buy and how much? Maybe i'll call them.

Its on vanns website. you should be able to search for Mirage. Then look at the bottom left corner, It should say "buy mirage and save 60%" or whatever. The other way is to add a speaker to your cart, then click "bundle" if its a bundle option. I bought the OMD15 bundle pack and the OMDR bundle pack. I figured that way I can use the OMD 5 for height and the OMDR for dedicated rears. I dont really need the sub since I have my B&W ASW855 but im trying to sell that. I have to wait a few weeks for the OMD15's. They said the OMD28's were in stock. I asked Vanns if they would drop another $200.00 for the inconvenience which they quickly declined. Oh well, at least I tried. I really hope these are great speakers. I didnt care for the OS line at Bestest Buy. Not enough bass or mids for my tastes. I really enjoyed my real Mirage MS3si. But those were huge caskets. Not sure if its worth the extra money to buy the larger towers. Twice the price but is it twice the sound? after all I am using a sub for most my bass.

My experience purchasing Mirage speakers from Vanns.com (very positive):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19340588

I have a couple of setup issues. I'm powering with an Onkyo TX-SR508. It has Audyssey 2EQ. I know now that the tool does not offer EQ calibration of subwoofers. I have two Prestige S10s in the system. I attempted to use the Audyssey setup to level match the subwoofers by running the tests separately with each subwoofer and then doing the final calibration with both subwoofers on.

The result had the crossover with the surrounds set at 150Hz. The Prestige S10 has spec max frequency response at 120Hz +/- 3db which suggests that I might have a gap if I retain the Audyssey settings.

The other issue is that with the Audyssey settings, bass output seems too low in volume. I can run the test tones and the subwoofer channel is barely audible. Again, I know that the basic 2EQ setup does not provide EQ filtering for subwoofers, but I figured that it would at least match levels with the surrounds.

By the way I don't have a meter. Didn't really want to get one for something I was going to check once, but maybe it's worth the investment.

My center is an OMDC1 and fronts and surrounds are all OMD5s. The L and R fronts are in a bookshelf where I removed the shelves above the speaker to give as much space as possible. These are where they are going to have to stay. I thought I would try again with the L and R fronts placed closer to a sidewall of the bookcase or a little further to the back of the bookcase in order to increase bass response of the OMD5s and lower the crossover to the sub.

Any thoughts?

Well I just connected my Prestige S10 sub. The pretty blue light on the front turns on but NO sound from the woofer.. It D.O.A. which is hard to believe. I used the same RCA and Power cord from my other sub which works fine. Not sure what else it could be except a bad internal connection. ARGHHH. I thought they tested these things before they left. But then again the UPS guy litereally kicked it out of the door onto the road when he was delivering it. At least Vann's double boxed it.

I had a similar experience where I hooked up a Prestige S10 and was wondering where the sound was. It was using a new AVR, and I was wondering if something was wrong with the subwoofer preout. I turned the gain to max, and was playing music through and over the course of fifteen or twenty minutes some bass response started developing. By the next day I had bass that would rattle the windows. I'm no expert on these things, but at least in my case there may be something to speaker break-in.

That said, I did receive a damaged subwoofer initially that I had to return.

If there is no apparent physical damage, maybe just allow it to run overnight before requesting the RMA just to make sure the unit truly is dead.

Since my OMD 15's are still on back order I was considering upgrading to the OMD28 but are they really worth the xtra cost? $1,000 for OMD15 and $2600 for OMD28. I would also upgrade my center C1 to a C2 to match which is also an upgraded cost. just wondering if anyone owns the 28's and there thoughts. It's not always worth the extra money to get better sound. I have heard the B&W 802 $14,000 A/B to the 800D $22000 and I couldnt justify the cost difference, Same with the Wilsons. Sometimes you hit a point where the extra money just cant jusify the extra cost. If the sound quality doubles, maybe but if its only slightly better. Just not worth it.

My neighbor just ordered the Mirage OMD 15 package and its still backordered....

Just in case you missed it - this has been asked at least a couple times. You might get some info by looking back in the thread.
Well, it's never either of those things, which is what makes it hard. You stop being able to get double the sound quality for double the cost once you go past $25 or so.

Also, it depends on whether you're talking sound quality, or enjoyment. In terms of overall enjoyment - there may be places you could spend that money that would create more enjoyment. (No, not Scotch.) A Squeezebox, or a Blu Ray player, or something.

But it's different for everybody. For somebody who really values what the 28's have to offer, and has the room and time to enjoy it - of course, they are a great value, as all the OMD stuff is at these prices.

I agree that you will not get twice the sound improvement, but you are missing some key components when considering this speaker.

Firstly, some people require larger higher quality speakers in order to generate adequate sound pressure for larger spaces. These would probably be overkill in my small living room, but someone with a large dedicated home theater need the extra power handling and volume levels that this speaker can produce. You can look back through this thread for comments by some of the owners.

Secondly, what one considers expensive usually is determined by ones income. The equipment I buy now, I could not afford when I was younger and I viewed it as expensive.

Just my two cents.

This weekend I took another crack at placement and re-calibration.

I put on The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King in DTS-ES 6.1 and trimmed the fronts and surrounds to min levels and subwoofer channel to max level. I selected the track where the Olephants attack and did the sub crawl for each subwoofer. Then I put on some Beastie Boys tracks. My low bass issue had definitely more to do with the source. I primarily watch cable TV and was making my evaluation on the basis of programming I normally watch. Put on a source with a meaty LFE track then there is plenty of bass! The room is not a dedicated space; it's a living/work area where I already have three computer workstations. Placement options are very limited. I wound up not really changing up my previous placement. It was a game of inches. I pulled one speaker a few inches toward the center of the short wall as there was a table leg in front of the driver. I pushed it an inch or two closer to the wall. The other subwoofer I pulled a couple of inches away from a corner formed by the wall and a book shelf.

I used Audessey 2EQ to confirm that the two subs were level matched. I ran the auto setup separately for each subwoofer. Each had a trim level of 0 db. Before final calibration I moved the fronts to the outside sidewalls of the bookshelves and then halfway to the back wall. I toed each speaker in so that they were directed to the main LP. Final calibration from the autosetup with both subwoofers powered up had the crossover set to 100Hz and subwoofer trim at -4db. In theory, I guess this is what I am looking for, to have the fronts and surrounds handling more of the mid-bass and not routing to the subwoofer. Having the trim at -4db at least puts me on the good side if I need room to boost the bass further. I confirmed relative levels by attaching the Audyssey mic to my PC and running the signal through a Windows-based peak level meter that I found online. I compared the center and subwoofer levels by running the AVR test tones with the mic at the main LP. Subwoofer level appeared to be in the same ball park as the center level.

I watched Roy Orbison: A Black and White Night BD and Quantum of Solice BD, and I have to say my untrained ears were pretty satisfied especially if I use decent volume. I probably watch TV at relatively low volume which doesn't help bring out the bass response. I went into the AVR advanced settings and set the reference level adjustment for the cable input to +10db. In theory, that should help. I think this is the best I can do without getting a calibrated meter and spending a few weeks tweaking. In the end, I'd prefer to be a setup and forget it kind of guy, so that I can sit down and enjoy what I have. For jollies, I'll still buy a mic for our iPod Touch and get an SPL app and see how the room responds. Seems like a cheap way to satisfy my curiosity.

If I find our camera I will post pictures of the set-up once I hide my wires.

I hope others find my experience helpful for them.

Hey all! I've been quite happy with my Mirage speakers - but I'm always considering an upgrade . Guess that's just how this hobby works.


My current setup includes OMD 5 fronts, an OMD C1 center, and OS3 sat surrounds. What I'm looking for is a little fuller response for the surrounds, as well as potentially adding rear(s) to expand the soundfield. I'm hoping someone could give me some insights/recommendations regarding what they think would give me the best sound.

It should be noted that I like a wide, enveloping soundfield (which is why I was originally drawn to Mirage) ... so I'm willing to trade imaging accuracy for envelopment. The options I'm considering are as follows.

Surrounds:

• pair of OMD 5's
• pair of OMD R's

Rear:

• single OS3 sat
• pair of OS3 sats
• single OMD 5
• single OMD C1

Any impressions?

Ordered a pair of maple OMD-5's. Couldn't help myself.

FYI. Vann has the OMD-15 speaker back in stock. Time to start saving.

I'm confused, where are they getting new product? I was under the assumption Vann's was closing out the stock.

Is Mirage making more of these?





(PS. Can anyone comment on my post above regarding surround/rears? )

x2