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Even Later HiDef DVD News - Page 2  

post #31 of 7981
I think, because of the reasons already given, it should be reopened. But I also think this should serve as a clear shot across the bow - a notice that behavior needs to improve or the thread will be closed.

There are two schools of thought right now. One, from Palladin et al., which believes there is absolutely nothing wrong with the tone of his post. Indeed, he was quick to blame the thread closing on anyone and everyone but himself. The real culprit, according to Palladin, was "gNATs with delicate sensibilities" and "The long established MS 'scorched earth' policy" which "EVERYBODY has to pay the price for it."

According to him, he bears no responsibility for the thread closing. If you think he took it as some sort of sign that he should drop the brawl hall style and tone it down a bit, nothing could be further from the truth. Indeed, he believes it is "stating the obvious" that the problems in the thread had nothing to do with him.

Many of us disagree.

We think, and have repeatedly admonished him, that he goes far overboard in his personal direct attacks. It is unnecessary and its rude. I think you should make it clear to anyone, including me if warranted, that type of attack is not acceptable. It drives away good poster and reduces this site to name calling and bashing.

I know no one wants to be the bad guy and police the threads. But if you want to avoid your mailboxes filling up again, you'll need to make it clear what it is this site is about. If you believe that Paladin's style of posting is appropriate to the style of this site, you should tell us, and people who had been reporting it will know to stop. (although I haven't reported anyone.) On the other hand, If you want Palladin, and anyone else who may be stepping over the line, to reduce the direct personal attacks against other members, you need to tell him. In clear, unambiguous language. If you don't, he will naturally assume that you approve of that posting style, and the trouble lies with the people who object to it.

So it's that simply. Either people need to be more polite, or people need to accept that direct personal attacks are the convention of this site. Tells us which is the case, and hopefully our collective posting styles will conform. That way you need not have your mailboxes filled by complaints everyday.

Edit: I want to make it clear that Palladin isn't the only one who goes overboard. I suspect everyone has their own personal list of who the worst offenders are. But the general point is still the same.
post #32 of 7981
Thread Starter 
Compared to other forums on the Internet, nothing that went on the old thread could be deemed out of hand.

So things got heated some times. This isn't grade school and nobody's parentage was questioned or anything like that.

If people got their feelings hurt because of a discussion about electronics and movie discs, they should maybe develop a slightly thicker skin?
post #33 of 7981
^^Agreed.
post #34 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Several people, myself included, wondered whether nataraj was covering for Amir in an official capacity.
I think it's a mistake to assume that people posting here who work for companies are always posting as part of some coordinated scheme. Amir's my boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss or something like that, but I've not recieved any talking points or anything about my participation here. AFAIK, no one I even talk to on a daily basis is likely to even read this message (although there are certainly tons of home theater fans within Microsoft who read AVS who will).

Only real change for me is I've gone from not knowing the answers to many questions and hence being free to idly speculate, to knowing the answers and not being able to share quite yet. But part of my job will be to be writing FAQs and white papers to answer many of our long-burning technical questions, so the wait will be ending soon. Show up in Redmond and ask too many detailed questions, you might get your dream job too ;).
post #35 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan
I think you should make it clear to anyone, including me if warranted, that type of attack is not acceptable. It drives away good poster and reduces this site to name calling and bashing.

(snip)

On the other hand, If you want Palladin, and anyone else who may be stepping over the line, to reduce the direct personal attacks against other members, you need to tell him. In clear, unambiguous language. If you don't, he will naturally assume that you approve of that posting style, and the trouble lies with the people who object to it.

So it's that simply. Either people need to be more polite, or people need to accept that direct personal attacks are the convention of this site. Tells us which is the case, and hopefully our collective posting styles will conform. That way you need not have your mailboxes filled by complaints everyday.
This is a great post and cuts to the core of the issue. Either it should be understood that personal attacks are the convention of the site and members will know not to report attacks, or members who engage in personal attacks should be told to back off or be banned.
post #36 of 7981
I believe there is a significant difference between a comment about how another member is participating, and calling that member names, insulting their heritage, etc.

I consider the former standard discourse and the latter out of bounds. For some reason, not all members are making that distinction.
post #37 of 7981
If you want to enforce rules, there should be a rule against company shills spreading massive amounts of misinformation. The pattern is quite easy to detect after several months of it.

It's like Creationists who only ever want to talk about negative evidence "against" evolution, instead of their own ideas. It's possible to detect this behavior.

If you don't want to enforce that rule, allow posters to point out the behavior.
post #38 of 7981
Thread Starter 
Hey anyone know if there's any TV coverage of CES?

In previous years, G4 TechTV used to cover it but I don't see anything on their sites.

Gee with all the talk about podcasts, if someone did a video podcast, it would be popular.

There is however a CEA podcast of the show but it seems to be audio-only.
post #39 of 7981
Ok, let's take this as a lesson to either calm down a little or be not quite so touchy. – Can we close this thread, then, and re-open The Real Thing™, please?
post #40 of 7981
I personally would like to see the old thread re opened, I miss it.
post #41 of 7981
the giant thread should be re-opened because it's legendary. if someone is misbehaving they should be ones who are banned or suspended, not the entire thread shut down.
post #42 of 7981
I'll throw in my vote for reopening the old thread, with the admonishments about behavior. But that goes for all sides.
post #43 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubix
the giant thread should be re-opened because it's legendary. if someone is misbehaving they should be ones who are banned or suspended, not the entire thread shut down.
I agree. Hecklers should never be given the power to shut down a debate.

But again, I strongly suggest we open a separate, tightly-moderated thread for hard news, and leave the giant one for discussion of said news.
post #44 of 7981
Whatever. If the old one stays closed, I don't really have any issues checking this one instead. But then again, I don't seem to get as sentimentally attached as most.

Whatever we do, as long as there's only one active one between the old one and this one (and whichever other one is closed), so we don't have to worry about having to check two places.
post #45 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semblance

It's like Creationists who only ever want to talk about negative evidence "against" evolution, instead of their own ideas. It's possible to detect this behavior.

If you don't want to enforce that rule, allow posters to point out the behavior.
Ok, how about we leave religion out of the discussion?
post #46 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by trbarry
I don't think I ever reported the old thread to the mods, but now I wish I had, and intend to in the future when it gets out of hand. Some provocative comments are just pure trolling and destructive to the conversation.

But I'm not at all averse to reopening the old thread. I just hope folks get warnings when they use really bad form and/or banned when they start trolling.

There is little excuse for comments that seem targeted at driving other participants out of the discussion.

- Tom
Bingo. I feel the same way.
post #47 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H
I've spoke with Alan. We have decided to re-open the original topic, but I may as well entertain arguments to simply continue here, anew.
It would be nice to have one fairly complete source for information on Blu-ray/HD-DVD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner
I think it's a mistake to assume that people posting here who work for companies are always posting as part of some coordinated scheme.
I agree that would be paranoia since simply being a part of a company does not make you part of their marketing department. Still though I am trying to tip toe around this I do think Palladin raised some interesting questions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner
Amir's my boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss or something like that, but I've not recieved any talking points or anything about my participation here. AFAIK, no one I even talk to on a daily basis is likely to even read this message (although there are certainly tons of home theater fans within Microsoft who read AVS who will).
I understand this well and it may just be that nataraj has nothing but a personal interest in the topic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner
But part of my job will be to be writing FAQs and white papers to answer many of our long-burning technical questions, so the wait will be ending soon.
It would be nice to get some more detailed information on what is being discussed and just curious but what exactly would the white papers you write be on?
post #48 of 7981
post #49 of 7981
I would like to cast my vote into reopening that thread.

I think it has added a lot and I was sad to see it closed. I will agree that the arguments got a bit boring, "yes you are", "no I am not" especially when you add the factor of pre CES lull, but I think the thread has made it easy keeping track of changes. I would like to see it stick around at least until something launches, after that it does become a bit useless. I am guessing it was one of the first threads on the subject and has been around and on subject for the longest time, it serves as a record of the evolution of both formats and I think it should be allowed to survive to also tell us the conclusion.
post #50 of 7981
I'm happy to see that big thread closed.
For the last hundred pages or so there were hardly any high-def news and mostly personal insults - using fancy language and sentences a paragraph long, sometimes.
The speculation time is over and CES will provide real news, if we are lucky.
It's time for a new thread.

Knowing that not everyone will be happy with this decision, "An unjust peace is better than a just war" (Marcus Tullius Cicero).

Diogen.
post #51 of 7981
How about the best of both worlds? In other words, only reopening once CES starts.
post #52 of 7981
I guess everyone wants to be in your living room.......


Industry Feeling Presence of the 800-Pound Google
post #53 of 7981
Crickey...what the heck happened? And horrible timing, too.

I have things to post. Post them here? Or wait for the dead thread to be born again?
post #54 of 7981
Alex, just post them already and leave the housekeeping for others. :)
post #55 of 7981
The real issue is if the staff is willing to host a high volume, widely read and very active thread. Given those parameters there are going to be complaints, insults and all sorts of OT activity. But also a lot of very smart people invested a lot of time posting information that was hard to come by and gave an insight much deeper that the occasional PR blurb or article posted in one of the industry rags.

That's the question, is the staff willing to host this thread and be the "go to" place for information or not? Right now it seems not. And if that is the mindset, then starting another thread is pointless as people aren't going to invest the time and energy to post just to have plug pulled without warning.

b2b
post #56 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians
Crickey...what the heck happened? And horrible timing, too.

I have things to post. Post them here? Or wait for the dead thread to be born again?
Well you are a "gold club" member, demand that they open the thread. We're all waiting for your post... :D

b2b
post #57 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
It would be nice to get some more detailed information on what is being discussed and just curious but what exactly would the white papers you write be on?
We're in the process of scoping out what we're going to tackle in what order.

Feel free to post or PM me any requests for stuff you'd like to have in public documentation. Bear in mind I'll be primarily speaking to content creators, although there's likely to be some consumer-relevant info in there as well.
post #58 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H
I believe there is a significant difference between a comment about how another member is participating, and calling that member names, insulting their heritage, etc.

I consider the former standard discourse and the latter out of bounds. For some reason, not all members are making that distinction.
I strongly share this belief, and my comments were directed to the former, concerning the manner in which one MS employee seemed to be adopting the approach and phrases of another, in order to transmit a similarly slanted message, which suggested something less that the ‘objectivity’ and ‘impartiality’ he often claimed. That opened up the field to questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semblance
If you want to enforce rules, there should be a rule against company shills spreading massive amounts of misinformation. The pattern is quite easy to detect after several months of it.

It's like Creationists who only ever want to talk about negative evidence "against" evolution, instead of their own ideas. It's possible to detect this behavior.

If you don't want to enforce that rule, allow posters to point out the behavior.
One would think this is axiomatic, except one group seems to have already determined that their side has “lostâ€, and are now overly sensitive to any form of rebuke from the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlehman
Ok, how about we leave religion out of the discussion?
Why is that? Actually, I thought it was a pretty good analogy.

As I stated once before in the past, I see this forum like a weekly poker game, where you don’t expect to really win any money, but do it for the pleasure of kicking back and shooting the breeze with the guys. But now it seems like some type of thin-skinned ersatz ‘moral majority’ mentality seems to have insinuated this place (and I’m talking about members, not any AVS personnel here), that believes we should accept any statement carte blanche whoever the source and without examining any motivation behind it (particularly when it emanates from the HD-DVD side), so that we can all put on white linen gloves and drink tea from china cups placed on doilies, under the delusion that this is supposed to be some sort of half-baked ‘League of Extraordinary Gentlemen’. I guess there is still a valid basis for the old expression that ‘ignorance is bliss’. You don’t get to have your cake AND eat it AND not gain any weight. Either all comments and developments from either side are going to be subject to scrutiny (as they should be), or none of them are.

I’ve run across a couple of idiots here along the way, but have never characterized them as such despite my personal belief that you don’t tolerate fools lightly. That would be a personal attack. OTOH, if someone with vested interests is going to assert a position or set forth information that seems dubious, I’m going to challenge it. I guess I’m the only one who had a problem with the Rick Marquardt scam. Pretty interesting when we found out what that was really about, huh? And if some find that to be bad form, then please don’t let me stop you from climbing aboard your rocket ship to the ‘Happy News’ network, so as to escape the fact that Earth is not a utopia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez
Leave a seat open b2b, because if opinions (and THAT is what we’re talking about here) are going to be limited by the “moral majority†members who don’t like them, then I’ll probably be joining you in short order.

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind
post #59 of 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palladin
Leave a seat open b2b, because if opinions (and THAT is what we’re talking about here) are going to be limited by the “moral majority†members who don’t like them, then I’ll probably be joining you in short order.

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind
Never mind, they are brain dead too. ;)

b2b
post #60 of 7981
It is my 'opinion' that john doe's children look like monkeys....
It is my 'opinion' that john doe's mother smells like 8 month old sewage...
It is my 'opinion' that john doe's wife looks like a half-man, half elephant....

What's wrong with all of these opinions (is there anything wrong?), after all they are just 'opinions' right?
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