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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 386

post #11551 of 29304
3/21/09 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

yes, forget about bi-wiring, forget about using RCA cables, leave all the jumpers in place on all 3 binding posts. go into your receiver, set subwoofer to "none". that way the LFE channel and any redirected bass will be seamlessly mixed to your front towers via the speaker wires

do you have any channels set to "small" ?


Def Teck told me to run speakers on large so I would get the best bass.I not sure of the proper set up. Should I set them to small ? Man, I could have saved a ton of money on sub cables and speaker wire !!!!
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post #11552 of 29304
3/21/09 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

My CLR3000 is installed and it does sound alittle better than the clr2500 did in my setup. Tuned with my SPL meter at 70db the center doesnt sound overpowered by the towers.

2 questions though

Do these really have to be broken in? 40 hours plus

And , i have the clr3000 connected to my power console so it get power all the time. Now when the 3000 gets a signal i can hear the small pop like its the amp turning on. Is that normal?

When i had the clr2500 the pop only happened when you first plugged it in. Once it had a constant power i would never hear that sound again. Why is that? The towers dont do that. Different style amps?

yes, the pop is normal. that's the auto-on feature turning the sub amp on when it receives a signal

as far as "break-in", that's been debated for years. def tech recommends it. my opinion is that the speakers don't break-in, your ears break-in to the speakers. your ears get used to the new sound kinda like when you get new glasses and everything looks a little blurry for a couple week and then everything is crystal clear

a good way to test this is to buy some used speakers which have be "broken in" already. install them and see if they get better and better week after week
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post #11553 of 29304
3/21/09 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHUNTY View Post

Def Teck told to run speakers on large so I would get the best bass.I not sure of the proper set up

i mean your other speakers besides the 2002tl's

your center or any other surrounds ?

what other speakers are you using besides the 2002tl's ?
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post #11554 of 29304
3/21/09 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Is that pick with all the speakers Def Tech ware house or someones setup?

that's the Trinity church in NYC, if you look above the pic, i posted a youtube link to the organ being played

those are racks of bp10's (and a few bp30's) that replaced the pipes that were destroyed by the dust on 911

it's also the same church that the def tech Trinity subwoofer was named after because it was created and designed to be used on the new digital organ (i'm sure more than one in a place that size)
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post #11555 of 29304
3/21/09 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

i mean your other speakers besides the 2002tl's

your center or any other surrounds ?

what other speakers are you using besides the 2002tl's ?


I am using fr l/r 2002tl, rear l/r 2002tl and clr 2000 for my center and 2 bpv rear back surrounds
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post #11556 of 29304
3/21/09 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHUNTY View Post

I am using fr l/r 2002tl, rear l/r 2002tl and clr 2000 for my center and 2 bpv rear back surrounds

ok, i was just currious. i'm guessing you're running the clr2000 large and the bpx's small ?

the reason i was wondering was if you wanted to try RCA's. you have a unique situation where you're not running any external subwoofers and you're using identical front and rear powered towers (the bp2002TL's)

when running only speaker wire, the LFE channel (the .1 channel) is only being directed to the mains. the only way to get the LFE channel to both the front and rear towers would be with RCA cables

this would be a trial and error type thing. you could get better, smoother bass with more head room on the LFE channel or you could run into cancellation problems and could actually get less bass

there is a way to test this ahead of time. set your front towers to large and your rear towers to small. put your receiver into "5 channel stereo" and play some music with good bass or some heavy action scene from movies and listen to the bass and see how it sounds

now go back into your receiver and set your rear towers to "large" and listen all over again and see if it's better or worse

if it's better, you will want to send the LFE channel to both the front and rear towers with RCA cables. leave all the jumpers in place on the towers and run the RCA cables from the subwoofer output of your receiver to the "LFE" input on the towers. in the receiver, set your towers to "large" and subwoofer to "yes"

again, this is all trial and error stuff. try both ways and go with which sounds best to you

oh, this takes me back to why i asked if other speakers are running small. just be aware that if your center is running "small" for example. the redirected bass will be sent through the RCA cables to both sets of towers. that may not be desirable. i would be mostly concerned about the center channel. if you're running it "large" it's a non issue

if your BPX's are set to "small" then bass from the rear surrounds will be routed to your towers also
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post #11557 of 29304
3/21/09 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

ok, i was just currious. i'm guessing you're running the clr2000 large and the bpx's small ?

the reason i was wondering was if you wanted to try RCA's. you have a unique situation where you're not running any external subwoofers and you're using identical front and rear powered towers (the bp2002TL's)

when running only speaker wire, the LFE channel (the .1 channel) is only being directed to the mains. the only way to get the LFE channel to both the front and rear towers would be with RCA cables

this would be a trial and error type thing. you could get better, smoother bass with more head room on the LFE channel or you could run into cancellation problems and could actually get less bass

there is a way to test this ahead of time. set your front towers to large and your rear towers to small. put your receiver into "5 channel stereo" and play some music with good bass or some heavy action scene from movies and listen to the bass and see how it sounds

now go back into your receiver and set your rear towers to "large" and listen all over again and see if it's better or worse

if it's better, you will want to send the LFE channel to both the front and rear towers with RCA cables. leave all the jumpers in place on the towers and run the RCA cables from the subwoofer output of your receiver to the "LFE" input on the towers. in the receiver, set your towers to "large" and subwoofer to "yes"

again, this is all trial and error stuff. try both ways and go with which sounds best to you

oh, this takes me back to why i asked if other speakers are running small. just be aware that if your center is running "small" for example. the redirected bass will be sent through the RCA cables to both sets of towers. that may not be desirable. i would be mostly concerned about the center channel. if you're running it "large" it's a non issue

if your BPX's are set to "small" then bass from the rear surrounds will be routed to your towers also

Should I run RCA' WITH A 4 WAY Y TO SUBS OUT OF SUB PREOUT OF MY ONKY 805
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post #11558 of 29304
3/21/09 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHUNTY View Post

Should I run RCA' WITH A 4 WAY Y TO SUBS OUT OF SUB PREOUT OF MY ONKY 805

subwoofer out to the LFE inputs on the towers

and leave all the brass jumpers in place
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post #11559 of 29304
3/21/09 at 11:07am
I heard and liked Klipsch 5650 in walls at a local retailer and was about to buy Klipsch 5800 in walls online for the same price when I heard a set of Def Tech mythos six's.

I really, really liked the Def Tech sound and concerned about any compromise using in walls, I started looking for a deal on the Mythos Sixes.

Unfortunately, I can't find anywhere to get the Mythos Six setup in my price range. In my search I came across the ProCinema 1000s, which I can afford.

Has anyone compared the two (Mythos Six vs ProCinema 1000s)? I know the Mythos will of course be better, but by how much? Will the sound be comparable? I wish I could find a place that had the 1000s set up for me to hear, but I can't.

Thanks for the help.
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post #11560 of 29304
3/21/09 at 1:33pm
Hello,

Just hooked up new PM 1000's as front, PM 800's as rear and a ProCenter 1000. An hour later I'm really liking these speakers!

My question is related to frequencies. How do the frequency settings in a receiver relate to the frequency response ranges of the speakers? I have an older Sony DE835 5.1 receiver and it allows setting individual frequencies for the bass, midrange and treble for front, center and rear speakers.

It's still set at factory defaults but I was curious if there are certain frequencies for each that would optimize my new DefTech speakers.

If this isn't the best place to ask, please point me in the right direction.

Thanks!
-zeph
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post #11561 of 29304
3/21/09 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephyr77 View Post

Hello,

Just hooked up new PM 1000's as front, PM 800's as rear and a ProCenter 1000. An hour later I'm really liking these speakers!

My question is related to frequencies. How do the frequency settings in a receiver relate to the frequency response ranges of the speakers? I have an older Sony DE835 5.1 receiver and it allows setting individual frequencies for the bass, midrange and treble for front, center and rear speakers.

It's still set at factory defaults but I was curious if there are certain frequencies for each that would optimize my new DefTech speakers.

If this isn't the best place to ask, please point me in the right direction.

Thanks!
-zeph

if you go to the def tech website, find your speaker and click Specifications, it will tell you exactly which crossover setting to use with each speaker

pro 1000 - 80hz

pro 800 - 100hz

pro center 1000 - 80hz
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post #11562 of 29304
3/21/09 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

if you go to the def tech website, find your speaker and click Specifications, it will tell you exactly which crossover setting to use with each speaker

pro 1000 - 80hz

pro 800 - 100hz

pro center 1000 - 80hz

Thanks otk!

I went there but somehow missed that.

-zeph
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post #11563 of 29304
3/21/09 at 2:44pm
If i get a new high end sub, ultra 13 or simular, and put it in the middle of my 7002s, should i turn the gain all the way down on the 7002s? would 3 subwoofers ,ie 2- 7002s and an ultra 13, running up front not be good?
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post #11564 of 29304
3/21/09 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by firebrick View Post

If i get a new high end sub, ultra 13 or simular, and put it in the middle of my 7002s, should i turn the gain all the way down on the 7002s? would 3 subwoofers ,ie 2- 7002s and an ultra 13, running up front not be good?

Nothing wrong with running 3 subs up front. I'm running 4 across the front (PM900 fronts with dual MFW-15's) with no problems. It may depend on if you're running RCA's to the 7002's or if it's just speaker wire (which most of us recommend, anyway, having tried every different combination seemingly possible).

I typically calibrate the subs, one at a time, sitting in my prime seat with my SPL meter, using a test tone, dialing the sub's gain until I'm at 75dB with the test tone. I repeat that with the other sub. If you've got a receiver that uses auto-calibration, I then set the gains on the PM900s (or, in your case, the 7002's) to about the 12 o'clock position and run Audyssey on my 805 or 876 (depending on which system I'm calibrating). Try to do about 6-8 measurements (there's a good thread here with step-by-step instructions on using Audyssey, but I'm too lazy to look for it to link), then fine-tune channel levels as needed. Finally, by ear (and preference), I will turn up or down the gains on the 7002's/PM900s to taste with 2-channel music. Hope this gives you an idea of where to start.
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post #11565 of 29304
3/21/09 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by firebrick View Post

If i get a new high end sub, ultra 13 or simular, and put it in the middle of my 7002s, should i turn the gain all the way down on the 7002s? would 3 subwoofers ,ie 2- 7002s and an ultra 13, running up front not be good?

No. In the setup you're describing, I see just one subwoofer. The powered woofer in the BP7002 gives this speaker better frequency range in the bass region. They are great mains and should be viewed as such, not three subwoofers, but two excellent mains with a high quality sub (the Ultra or equivalent). You may be adjusting the gain to some extent, but not because of the reason you're thinking. Those 12"-300 watt drivers in the 7002s will have plenty of performance to show off just with the bass that is encoded in the front channels.
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post #11566 of 29304
3/21/09 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by headedforhighend View Post

No. In the setup you're describing, I see just one subwoofer. The powered woofer in the BP7002 gives this speaker better frequency range in the bass region. They are great mains and should be viewed as such, not three subwoofers, but two excellent mains with a high quality sub (the Ultra or equivalent). You may be adjusting the gain to some extent, but not because of the reason you're thinking. Those 12"-300 watt drivers in the 7002s will have plenty of performance to show off just with the bass that is encoded in the front channels.

Good point; I intended to mention this, but was distracted by kids and my contractor while I was typing.
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post #11567 of 29304
3/21/09 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by firebrick View Post

If i get a new high end sub, ultra 13 or simular, and put it in the middle of my 7002s, should i turn the gain all the way down on the 7002s? would 3 subwoofers ,ie 2- 7002s and an ultra 13, running up front not be good?

i would try setting the 7002s as small with a 40hz crossover and let the better sub do all the heavy lifting

each level control on each 7002 should be set to match the upper frequencies of each 7002. it's a set it and forget it type deal when when done the 7002 is just another full-range speaker like any other full-range speaker. doesn't matter if your're using extras subs or not, the level knobs on the 7002 stay the same
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post #11568 of 29304
3/21/09 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

i would try setting the 7002s as small with a 40hz crossover and let the better sub do all the heavy lifting

each level control on each 7002 should be set to match the upper frequencies of each 7002. it's a set it and forget it type deal when when done the 7002 is just another full-range speaker like any other full-range speaker. doesn't matter if your're using extras subs or not, the level knobs on the 7002 stay the same

this is exactly how i have it set now with my pf1500tl in the rear of the room. didnt know if it made a difference with the true subwoofer sitting in line with my 7002s, now to find the sub i want, there are too many to choose from in the under 1500 range, uls? hsu? i want it for movies and music..how would the svs pb12plus work with my setup?
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post #11569 of 29304
3/22/09 at 4:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

i would try setting the 7002s as small with a 40hz crossover and let the better sub do all the heavy lifting

each level control on each 7002 should be set to match the upper frequencies of each 7002. it's a set it and forget it type deal when when done the 7002 is just another full-range speaker like any other full-range speaker. doesn't matter if your're using extras subs or not, the level knobs on the 7002 stay the same


Hi,

I am in the same situation here...

So if I understand correctly the setup you suggest if I have a sub is...

Fronts set to small (7002)
Center set to small (2500)
Surround and rear set to small (bpx)
Subwoofer = Yes (SuperCube Reference)

I set the crossover in my receiver to 40hz. So the bass above 40hz will be send to all my speakers but below that point (harder to reproduce) will be send to my subwoofer.

Is that setup Ok?

Eric
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post #11570 of 29304
3/22/09 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by firebrick View Post

this is exactly how i have it set now with my pf1500tl in the rear of the room. didnt know if it made a difference with the true subwoofer sitting in line with my 7002s, now to find the sub i want, there are too many to choose from in the under 1500 range, uls? hsu? i want it for movies and music..how would the svs pb12plus work with my setup?

I have never heard the pb12plus but I have one of their cylinder subs. svs has an excellent reputation so I don't see how you could go wrong. I have an earthquake sub on the front wall between my mains. I used to have my svs right behind my seats. I could tell it was right there, it was annoying. I moved it to the rear wall, problem solved.
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post #11571 of 29304
3/22/09 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Hi,

I am in the same situation here...

So if I understand correctly the setup you suggest if I have a sub is...

Fronts set to small (7002)
Center set to small (2500)
Surround and rear set to small (bpx)
Subwoofer = Yes (SuperCube Reference)

I set the crossover in my receiver to 40hz. So the bass above 40hz will be send to all my speakers but below that point (harder to reproduce) will be send to my subwoofer.

Is that setup Ok?

Eric

That is correct.
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post #11572 of 29304
3/22/09 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

That is correct.

Just think about something else...

If I set the crossover at 40hz, my surrounds and rears will have to reproduce the 40hz to 80hz (normally reserved for subwoofer). But I have no sub in my surrounds and rears.... Is this will sound good?

But Maybe there not enough LFE info sent to the surrounds and rears to consider this point at all?

Eric
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post #11573 of 29304
3/22/09 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Hi,

I am in the same situation here...

So if I understand correctly the setup you suggest if I have a sub is...

Fronts set to small (7002)
Center set to small (2500)
Surround and rear set to small (bpx)
Subwoofer = Yes (SuperCube Reference)

I set the crossover in my receiver to 40hz. So the bass above 40hz will be send to all my speakers but below that point (harder to reproduce) will be send to my subwoofer.

Is that setup Ok?

Eric

Hey Rick, a 7002 system with a Reference... nice setup .
As g_bartman said, your understanding is correct. If you'll allow it, a further explanation may be helpful. The suggestions that are offered here are solid starting points. They are settings that we have been successful with in our own setups and past experience or what many others in this threads history have found to work best with setups similar to yours. Your listening room may (will) effect your actual outcome, but it will be real close. For your system, perhaps a good starting point may be;
  • BP7002 mains- small, x'd @ 40Hz
  • CLR2500 center- small, x'd @ 60Hz
  • BPX surrounds- small, x'd @ 60Hz
  • Receive- acknowledge subwoofer & preout RCA to sub
If your receiver uses global crossover (one crossover setting for all channels set to small), then you could try setting the mains to large.
HFHE
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post #11574 of 29304
3/22/09 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by headedforhighend View Post

Hey Rick, a 7002 system with a Reference... nice setup .
As g_bartman said, your understanding is correct. If you'll allow it, a further explanation may be helpful. The suggestions that are offered here are solid starting points. They are settings that we have been successful with in our own setups and past experience or what many others in this threads history have found to work best with setups similar to yours. Your listening room may (will) effect your actual outcome, but it will be real close. For your system, perhaps a good starting point may be;
  • BP7002 mains- small, x'd @ 40Hz
  • CLR2500 center- small, x'd @ 60Hz
  • BPX surrounds- small, x'd @ 60Hz
  • Receive- acknowledge subwoofer & preout RCA to sub
If your receiver uses global crossover (one crossover setting for all channels set to small), then you could try setting the mains to large.
HFHE

Or buy BPVX/P for surrounds?

Due to the small presence of LFE in the surround channel is the BPVX/P make a real difference?

Eric
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post #11575 of 29304
3/22/09 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Just think about something else...

If I set the crossover at 40hz, my surrounds and rears will have to reproduce the 40hz to 80hz (normally reserved for subwoofer). But I have no sub in my surrounds and rears.... Is this will sound good?

But Maybe there not enough LFE info sent to the surrounds and rears to consider this point at all?

Eric

All frequencies below the xover point from all speakers will be sent the subwoofer. All LFE or .1 channel will be exclusively directed to the subwoofer. The BPX surrounds will be a perfect match for your system.
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post #11576 of 29304
3/22/09 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by headedforhighend View Post

All frequencies below the xover point from all speakers will be sent the subwoofer. All LFE or .1 channel will be exclusively directed to the subwoofer. The BPX surrounds will be a perfect match for your system.


Ok... If I understand, ALL the .1 LFE are directed to the subwoofer no matter what?

So for example in a movie in Dolby TrueHD 5.1 all the .1 is directed to my sub even if my main are set to large?

Eric
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post #11577 of 29304
3/22/09 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Ok... If I understand, ALL the .1 LFE are directed to the subwoofer no matter what?

So for example in a movie in Dolby TrueHD 5.1 all the .1 is directed to my sub even if my main are set to large?

Eric

Yes. But there are options in some receivers that do allow you to share the .1 channel with the mains.
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post #11578 of 29304
3/22/09 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by headedforhighend View Post

Yes. But there are options in some receivers that do allow you to share the .1 channel with the mains.

If I always listen to movie in 5.1 or 7.1 there no need to bother with the front set to Large because the encoding (ex. Dolby 5.1) already do that for me... The encoding decide what in the sound track will go to LFE (directed to .1) or not?

So the crossover thing and speaker set to large or not is only for non-encoded (stereo) movie, tv or music?
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post #11579 of 29304
3/22/09 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Or buy BPVX/P for surrounds?

Due to the small presence of LFE in the surround channel is the BPVX/P make a real difference?

Eric

yes, there's a lot of bass (not LFE, LFE is a channel, the .1 channel) in the surrounds. i have a 15" subwoofer on each surround channel
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post #11580 of 29304
3/22/09 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

yes, there's a lot of bass (not LFE, LFE is a channel, the .1 channel) in the surrounds. i have a 15" subwoofer on each surround channel

Thanks for the clarification...

But how can your surround capture that bass when in a 5.1 movie the low bass are directed to the LFE channel? Have you wire a RCA cable from LFE to your surround?

Eric
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