Definitive Owners Thread - Page 387

Originally Posted by headedforhighend

Yes. But there are options in some receivers that do allow you to share the .1 channel with the mains.

Originally Posted by RickAVManiac

If I always listen to movie in 5.1 or 7.1 there no need to bother with the front set to Large because the encoding (ex. Dolby 5.1) already do that for me... The encoding decide what in the sound track will go to LFE (directed to .1) or not?

So the crossover thing and speaker set to large or not is only for non-encoded (stereo) movie, tv or music?

Originally Posted by otk

you're not thinking of the "LFE + Main" feature are you ?

some receivers call it "double bass", some have other names for it

but that doesn't send the LFE channel to the mains. it sends bass from mains set to "large" out to the subwoofer output along with the LFE channel

Originally Posted by headedforhighend

The designer of the movie track determines which channel to send the signals to (fronts, center, surrounds... ect.), the end user determines how much of that signal is his speakers capable of reproducing. So, for example, if the surrounds are capable of frequencies down to 80Hz, then the end user will cross them over to the sub at ~ that point. The movie track designer will send the LFE to to the .1 channel. The receiver or end user (you) will reproduce this signal in the way that you designate it in your setup options. A stand alone sub is best, but if you don't have one, then this signal would be directed (by you) to the mains. Depending on the frequency range capability of your mains, that will determine how much you will hear and how much will be lost. Setting your mains to large is definitely an option if they are of great range. There is a lot of low bass material in the front channels. This should not be confused with LFE (.1) material, which is a completely different.

Originally Posted by RickAVManiac

Ok but the .1 channel is created from sound that came from all the other channels (low frequency sound). So the creator remove that low frequency sound from the other channel (left,right,center,surround,rear) and put them in the .1 channel?

Is that true?

Or maybe they leave the full range sound in all the channels and created a .1 channel with other low frequency sound?

Eric

Originally Posted by RickAVManiac

Ok but the .1 channel is created from sound that came from all the other channels (low frequency sound). So the creator remove that low frequency sound from the other channel (left,right,center,surround,rear) and put them in the .1 channel?

Is that true or maybe they leave the full range sound in all the channels and created a .1 channel with other low frequency sound?

Eric

Originally Posted by GHUNTY

I only have 1 sub pre out. i HAVE 4 towers w/ powered subs, 2 in front and 2 same towers for rear surrounds. Is it ok to split RCA to feed all towers w/ only 1 sub preout by splitting ? Will I lose bass response by splitting 4 ways or would it be better to just wire everthing the standard way ?

Originally Posted by headedforhighend

I do not believe you would degrade the signal by any discernible amount by splitting the signal to all the towers, but I couldn't predict the quality of bass that is achieved either; by using the powered woofers in the surrounds in addition to the front for the LFE. You would be able to judge the results better by listening. Using just speaker wire to each tower and running them all as large would keep the LFE in the front mains (figuring you are not using a stand alone sub at this time). This seems like a good approach. My concern with running RCAs all around is it may muddy up the surrounds a little. It would be interesting to see what you find best.

Originally Posted by RickAVManiac

Ok but the .1 channel is created from sound that came from all the other channels (low frequency sound). So the creator remove that low frequency sound from the other channel (left,right,center,surround,rear) and put them in the .1 channel?

Is that true?

Or maybe they leave the full range sound in all the channels and created a .1 channel with other low frequency sound?

Eric

Originally Posted by GHUNTY

Good question. I woud like to know myself. Anybody?

Originally Posted by headedforhighend

The .1 channel is a unique channel the Dolby designed for Low Frequency Effects. It can contain frequencies ranging from 16Hz or lower to 120Hz. This channel is individually processed in your receiver differently from regular bass. It receives a boost in decibels for effects purposes. Regular bass in all channels can be higher or lower in frequency, but it remains in the channel it was sent to unless it is crossed to the sub.

Originally Posted by GHUNTY

How do you feel about bi-wiring. Is this just hype ?

Originally Posted by headedforhighend

Don't know what it's called, but I believe there are some units that can direct the .1 to the sub and mains. It's not something I would look at myself.

Originally Posted by Macfan424

Just to add to headedforhighend's response, the amount of low frequency information sent to the LFE vs main channels is up to the sound engineer, and varies from source to source. Some send a full spectrum to all channels, some only to the fronts, some roll it off and send it all to the LFE. There is no way to predict.

Originally Posted by larrystarr

Hello fellow def-tech owners! I have a question, somewhat related to the bass thread currently going...

I have some bp8b's that I was using for a stereo set-up. I tried them in my home theater set up and they are nice there also.

I found a good deal on BP7004's so I could then put the bp8b's back in my stereo set up and use the 7004's for home theater.. seems good since they have the subs in them.

I do already have a powered sub though, and it creates a lot of bass for my 10x16 room. I'm just wondering how much benefit I would gain from adding the two 7004's so that I had three subs in the set up. I do love bass, but I'm just wondering it will either be too much bass, or if I won't really be able to tell the difference in the added bass since it is not really directional.. although perhaps the added coverage will 'charge' the room more?

Having two subs in two towers won't cancel out the bass from one another will they?

Also, is the 7004 basically the same as a BP8B with the addition of the subwoofer/amp built in? The appear to have the same number and size of drivers but their web site does not say if they are identical drivers used on each speaker.

Thanks for any help.

Originally Posted by otk

...if you have a situation where you're extra sub is a lot better than the subs in your mains, you probably want to set them to small with 40hz crossover or set them to "large" and try the "LFE + Main" feature and see which sounds best...

Originally Posted by otk

...i recommend that people try every way imaginable and go with what sounds best

Originally Posted by Macfan424

One problem with a low crossover like that is that many (most?) AVRs cut off the LFE at the same point. Since the LFE isn't redirected to the mains, all LFE above the crossover is lost.

I'm not a "purist," but I do draw the line at the "double bass" approach. I spent too much effort calibrating bass to subject myself to the random effects that injects. If the mains actually go down to 30Hz or so, I'd just set them to Large and limit the sub to LFE. My theory is that sound engineers don't mix much below that in the main channels because they know that only a tiny fraction of home speakers go that low, much less lower. They want people to be able to hear what they intended. I can live with the rare exception. But that's just me.

Absolutely. There are just too many variable to provide a one-size-fits-all solution. The closest is probably the commonly recommended Small-crossed-at-80Hz suggestion (i.e. the THX standard). But it doesn't account for equipment variations or personal taste (which does not always respect the sound designer's intentions ).

Originally Posted by headedforhighend

You may consider using the 7004s for the music system and the BP8Bs with the sub for the HT. It's worth a test.

Originally Posted by otk

plus people have been posting waterfalls of the mains and even the center and surrounds to show just how much bass is mixed into them in the sub forum. there's definitely some low bass being sent to the mains center and surrounds

but again, it's all trial and error. it can't hurt to try it and see

Originally Posted by larrystarr

Hello fellow def-tech owners! I have a question, somewhat related to the bass thread currently going...

I have some bp8b's that I was using for a stereo set-up. I tried them in my home theater set up and they are nice there also.

I found a good deal on BP7004's so I could then put the bp8b's back in my stereo set up and use the 7004's for home theater.. seems good since they have the subs in them.

I do already have a powered sub though, and it creates a lot of bass for my 10x16 room. I'm just wondering how much benefit I would gain from adding the two 7004's so that I had three subs in the set up. I do love bass, but I'm just wondering it will either be too much bass, or if I won't really be able to tell the difference in the added bass since it is not really directional.. although perhaps the added coverage will 'charge' the room more?

Having two subs in two towers won't cancel out the bass from one another will they?

Also, is the 7004 basically the same as a BP8B with the addition of the subwoofer/amp built in? The appear to have the same number and size of drivers but their web site does not say if they are identical drivers used on each speaker.

Thanks for any help.

Originally Posted by headedforhighend

If you have a decent sub in your HT setup, then I would be more inclined to send the LFE there and allow the 7004s to carry only the bass that it is best suited for... maybe down to 40Hz or just set them as large and keep the LFE in the stand alone sub rather than sending the LFE to the sub and 7004s via RCAs and splitter. You can try both ways and find out what works best for you. I would add though, it would be rewarding to achieve the smoothest or best bass rather than the most bass.

Originally Posted by RickAVManiac

Hi,

I have an opportunity to buy a pair of BPVX/P.

For now I use a pair of BPX. They match my 7002 tower.

Will the BPVX/P will blend also and will I be able to notice a real improvement over the BPX?

Thanks,

Eric

Originally Posted by RickAVManiac

Hi,

I have an opportunity to buy a pair of BPVX/P.

For now I use a pair of BPX. They match my 7002 tower.

Will the BPVX/P will blend also and will I be able to notice a real improvement over the BPX?

Thanks,

Eric

Originally Posted by RickAVManiac

Hi,

I have an opportunity to buy a pair of BPVX/P.

For now I use a pair of BPX. They match my 7002 tower.

Will the BPVX/P will blend also and will I be able to notice a real improvement over the BPX?

Thanks,

Eric

Originally Posted by brh056

I have SM450's as mains and a 2002 center.

My surrounds are Procinema 100's right now. Thinking of replacing those with BP2X's as R and L surrounds and possibly bumping the 100's to surround R&L back channel placement. Due to room constraints I can't put something bigger than the 100's in the back.

Thoughts? Only one upgrade is in the cards right now.

Originally Posted by headedforhighend

BTW, those Procinema 100s you're referring to... do you mean Promonitor 1000? [/left]

Originally Posted by sinisanav

Hi, to offer a different perspective, I have 4 BPVX/Ps for side and back surrounds in the 7.1 setup without the standalone subwoofer ( only the built ins in 7001'). My reasoning is exactly the same, as I wanted more low frequency extension in those surrounds without cluttering the room with subwoofer ( granted, I will get a standalone sub at one point or other ). There is really a lot of bass info in the surrounds, Master and Commander, LOTR , they rock in the back.
There will probably be a noticeable improvement over BOX, would there be so noticeable over BPVX , I do not know, probably not if you will use standalone sub to bring the LFE, and as otk pointed out, you will get more definition from 2 extra mid-range drivers if you go with BPVXs.

Again, not to confuse the fact that full range signal would go to surrounds (and they will use all they can handle depending on their roll off, so BPVs will go a bit deeper) unless you xover them with sub.