Definitive Owners Thread - Page 391

Still building and would like to convert my Yamaha RXV663 into a preamp while adding a power amplifier to supply some real juice. I have BP7006's, CLR2002 and BP1.2x's in the back (may add another pair down the road, or even upgrade the 7006's in the front and use them for rear surround). I've been researching for awhile and really like the Rotels (Parasound as well), but am wondering if anyone could share their thoughts on a good amp mate for my towers.

I'll probably just start with a solid 2 channel amp for the mains, then add later. The Rotel 1080 (200w x 2) seems to be great bang for the buck, and would supply plenty of power so that's where I'm leaning right now. What do you guys think?

I am thinking that your AVR should be able to drive your setup quite easily. Your speakers are pretty efficient.

Are you not happy with the sound?

Hi,

My brother is struggling between 2 x 7002 like mine or 2 x Mythos STS

Is anyone has experience with both and can comment?

Is the sound of the Mythos are really as good as the reviews state?

Thanks for your help.

Eric

Rotel and parasound would both be solid choices. Sunfire, B&K, Acurus are some others I have heard good things about. I bought a used mcintosh mc252 for my 7001's. It made quite a difference. I want to get a 5 channel amp for the others eventually.

Go check out Emotiva amps, great amps for great prices. I recently added one of their 5 channel amps to my 3808 and it really woke up my def techs. I believe they are still having a 10% off stock sale right now too!

I was thinking of adding an Emotiva to my setup. They look nice and seem to be a good bargain.

Now I just have to see how they perform. I wanted to add a 3-channel to power my front 7002s and 3000.

What do you guys think of Emotiva? Any other suggestions that I can look into?

I've been using an Emotiva IPS-1 150x7 amp for about 1-1/2 years
powering my Mythos speakers and i've been extremely happy.
I run it all the time and it never gets hot.

Note: The IPS-1 is no longer made, its been replaced with newer models.

I am very happy with the sound, but keep in mind this comes from who had never really had anything close to this quality of a speaker setup in the past. I know mine pales in comparison to some of the systems other guys in here have, but for me it's a HUGE step up from what I used to call a HT.

I guess I'm just getting addicted to this whole HT experimentation, adding, upgrading, etc. and have read dozens of posts in this forum on how DT's line of bi-polar towers crave lots of power. So, I suppose my thinking is - Does it sound below par? Not by any means - but could it be better, yes, based on what I've read.

My movie and music playback is about 50/50, but I do like to crank the towers in 2 channel stereo whenever I have a chance...love music at high volumes and from what I gather, a power amp will really become noticeable once you get into higher listening levels. Given that, I was thinking of starting with a 200x2 two-channel power amp and adding another later for the center and rears, but maybe the way to go is 200x3 in a three channel amp since the CLR2002 is also rated at 250 watts? I just don't want the center power source/3rd channel to interfere with the quality of sound I get while listening to music in 2 channel stereo, but am not sure if that would even be an issue.

Maybe I should ask if anyone has any comments on particular brands of amps that do NOT mate well with DT? Matching seems great with Rotel or Emotiva, but Parasound may be a bit too warm for my taste. Thoughts? Thanks again guys.

Thanks...I've heard good things about B&K and Sunfire as well, but haven't been able to demo one yet. Time to check Audiogon I think!

That's where I my mac from. You always take some risk buying used but I have had good luck so far. I bought a parasound 2205, 2 channels were dead. The guy took it back. My 7001's mate very well with the mac. I am actually about 70/30 music to movies.

Emotiva is the wild card right now...haven't listened to one hooked up, but wow, their prices are extremely cheap compared to others out there. Do you know how they compare in SQ to Rotel, Parasound, etc? Believe me I've been mulling them over quite a bit, but keep wondering if the old saying 'you get what you pay for' holds true in any capacity with these amps.

You have the XPA-5? How does it sound in 2 channel stereo for music listening? Wondering which of their amps I should test...a 2, 3, or 5 channel...so many options. Maybe I should check out their 3 channel setup since my front 3 speakers are all 250w...

The online AV mags always seem to love Emotiva, for what that's worth. Here's an Audioholics review of the XPA-2, but I'm sure if you hunt around you can find more of these reviews.

I got my Sunfire Signature Seven amp used off of Audiogon, and couldn't be happier. I've also picked up a couple of speakers there, and so far everything has gone smoothly. It's a great place to pick up good used gear, as well as sell some things you no longer use/need, while at the same time avoiding the less-educated crowd (regarding mid-/high-end audio) at the-Bay.

I think you'd be satisfied with pretty much anything from Parasound, Rotel, NAD, B&K, Sunfire, Bryston, McIntosh, Classe, Pass-Labs, and possibly a few other of the well-regarded brands. Emotiva owners typically are very satisfied, but I have no experience personally. I did audition, and ended up returning, an Outlaw Audio 7-channel amp, but rated at 125 watts/ch it was no improvement over my Onkyo TX-SR805's amps. I would imagine their higher-powered amps might provide some improved channel separation and dynamics over most receivers, though.

+1 on the Sunfire.

Though DefTechs are typically quite efficient they seem to perform nicer with more (or higher quality) power. Your ears will undoubtedly thank you if you decide on getting any of the aforementioned by schroedk.

I can't quantify exactly how much better the sound is, as everyone's opinion is their own, but for me, using my receiver as a pre/pro and the Sunfire as an amp enhances music and HT soundtracks more than just using my receiver alone.

My receiver (Marantz SR8500 for now) is rated 7 x 125w and my Sunfire TGA-7200 is rated 7 x 200w, but I have never listened at max levels (or even at reference) so the extra wattage, though available is probably never used in my day-to-day listening.

I do, however, perceive a difference for the better, in my opinion. Could be the amp produces higher quality output or it could just be psychological, but I won't go back to using just the receiver alone.

Good luck with your decision.

i seem to be in the minority on this topic. i have always loved the sound from my denon receivers

when i worked in a small hi-end stereo shop, i used to play around with all the high-end gear an never noticed any difference in sound quality when switching from a good "middle of the road" receiver to big name big power amps. i did the same with all the expensive wires ,cables, and electronics, it all sounds the same to my ear. the only place i ever noticed big differences in SQ was from speaker to speaker or subwoofer to subwoofer and of course from room to room

i also don't like the idea of running my audio through an extra set of RCA cables if i can help it

i like to go from the digital source direct to my receiver and right out through the speaker wires to my speakers. i noticed i get the least amount of "hiss" when i do the "ear to speaker with the volume all the way up test" than when i use the receiver as pre-amp with external amps

That may be due to the high gain circuitry used in many separate amps. It makes them seem "more powerful" to buyers as they play louder at the same preamp volume setting, but it raises the noise floor as well.

I'm in the same minority, BTW, as I'm happy the way my Pioneer receiver sounds, too.

Honestly, I never really listen to 2 channel. I do pretty much 100% home theater. However, I did audition a few CDs that I know very well and can say that the amp(like I said before) took the veil off the 7001's I have. I heard things in the background that I never heard before and the soundstage really opened up. For the price its a very easy move into the amp world. Ive been on the Emotiva threads for a while and honestly haven't really found anyone that isn't happy with theirs.

did the submersive arrive yet ?

i can't wait to see how it does with the 7001s

Naw, not yet. I think it should be arriving mid April. Don't really have a "Definitive" time frame on it.

I used to have DT's, and while granted, I had the Mythos line, there are similarities to varying degrees. I do not know where you got the impression that the DT's demand gobbs of power, but I can say with confidence, that that statement is a bit of a stretch. The BPs have active drivers, so you are only amplifying the mids and tweeters, which typically, do not demand too much. That isn't to say that there is no benefit at all from external amplification, but the sonical changes can/are extremely subjective, and lean more on the subtle side (which not everyone can hear). What you may gain, is a little more headroom, which may increase dynamics to an extent.

I would probably be a bit more enthusiastic, if you were going into larger brethren in the BP line like 7001/7000, as the 663 may fall a bit short, but with the 7006's, I am not sure you'll notice much of a difference.

Upgraditis? What's that?

If you did in fact decide to move forward with an external amp, I have heard great things mating the DT with Sunfire, and Parasound, which have been dubbed on the "warmer" side of things. The DT's are more on the forward, peaky side, which may be why some like the Sunfire combo so much.

Remember though, you need twice as much power to achieve a bit more headroom (3db), so keep that in mind when you are shopping.

Edit: When running your towers in 2 channel, you are demanding less from the integrated amplification of your AVR. I highly doubt that is where you will notice the difference, but moreso when mch/HT.

Is there a big difference between the BP6 and the BP8? It seems they have the same size of drivers but the BP8 is taller by 3" and its 200W...

I am just wondering if its worth to get the BP8...

I will be powering this with a Denon 2809CI.

the mid/bass drivers in the bp8 have cast baskets and the bp8 should have a bit more bass extension due to the large cabinet

I have also been looking at adding an external amp to my set up. I think I have settled on the emotiva 3 channel to run my front soundstage. My setup is SM 450's, PC2000 & BP1.2x's. I'm currently running a pioneer elite 91. It's rated at 110w per channel. I assume it's putting out 65-75w running 5 channels. I think the 200w the emotiva will give me and only using my AVR to power my rears will be an improvement. Any thoughts?

Thank you for the input, I do appreciate it!

Yeah, I didn't mean to give the impression that DT's need or demand a lot of power...I know they are very efficient and fairly easy to drive. What I have read on numerous posts within this forum however is that they do seem to prefer more power and actually perform even better when fed a healthy dose. That's not to say they will not sound fine with a mid-level receiver. I kind of feel like the 'little guy' in here with my 7006's, but I absolutely love them and they fit perfectly within my current HT room. Anything bigger may be overkill as things are now, but like I said in my first post, my ultimate goal is to expand my HT and use the 7006's as rear surrounds, and eventually go to 7002's in the front. When that happens it would be nice to already have an amp in place to at least drive the mains. My dilemma at this point is I'm not sure if I should just go with a 5 channel amp or 2 channel.

Like you eluded to, this is all about perceived improvement based on subjective listening...some may hear a significant improvement, some may not I suppose. I'm just trying to come to an educated, informed decision before doing anything and all the info I can get helps.

And you're right, upgraditis is the key word...this is more about 'wanting' and not so much 'needing' .

I really like the way the Bel Canto Ref 1000 and S300 work with the 7001's & BPVX's. Def's don't demand a lot of power, but they respond well to the additional headroom and make good use of it. The difference can be quite noticeable. I like the Ice amps, they don't heat the house and provide some nice clean punch and clarity, especially in the bottom end and mids. Downside is price but agon deals are out there. Have not heard any other Ice amps with the Def's.

Understood ginnywop!

If I were in your shoes, I would certainly look into the Sunfire, or even Parasound. I feel that the slightly warmer sound of these amps are a great compliment to the Dynamic BP line. Especially if you are considering a substantial amount of 2ch.

I too really like ICE power, but not so much with the DT's. If you do in fact want to stay in that realm though, Wyred 4 Sound is a great value, and is getting rave reviews. The Bel Cantos certainly are attractive, but will cost you more in the long run, as you only have monoblocks, and stereo amplification to choose from.

OTK at your discretion (PM or POST) could you elaborate on this please? And further include your setup of a 15" sub on ea. surround channel? Thanks. Reason I'm asking...

My Equip.
Pio Elite SC 05
Mythos I Fronts
Mythos 8 Center
SUB (Undecided)
Rears/Surrounds... Undecided but considering BP2X (Chet said to use these for both surround and rears) GEM XL's, or Mythos 8 BP6B/BP8B for rears.

Hello Everyone!

I've spent most of the night reading all your posts. This most recent one concerning external amps has me curious. With the rated power of Mythos I's @ 250W ea. & being the Pio Elite SC 05 pushes 130W X 7 (albeit RMS), is this enough to power those speakers? What about @ occassional high levels, or sometimes cranking of HT & Music? Aside from subjectivity, (I'm with OTK & Macfan on this issue for now) does anyone have any experience and/or concrete evidence that adding a external amp will produce the full power to which these Mythos I's are capable? I started this (my first true HT) with a VSX 01 & was going to purchase an EMotiva, but when the deals on the SC 05 became apparent, I bit. Returned the 01 & for $400 more got the SC 05, mainly b/c of the Class D ICE AMP, which has been getting rave reviews, b/c you only find such amps on external amplifiers.

Through conferring with others on this forum, I've decided on the Mythos 8 for my center. Like many of you, I'm still searching for the right sub and deciding whether 2 is the way to go or not. Considering SC I, 2X SC II, SVS (is 2 PB 12 NSD, or 2 PC 12 NSD, 2 SB 12+ the way to go or 1 Ultra PC 13? I have also looked at HSU (not comparable economically to the others except SC I), Outlaw and Ed (Elemental Design). The HSU's though have an operating adjustment from 25 - 18 Hz. The thing that concerns me on SC I is the auto on feature where for low volume (ie @ night, etc) the SC I loses bass response b/c it requires a stronger signal to turn it on. Apparently this cannot be bypassed. If you know different, by all means inform us.

As far as rears/surrounds, Chet recommended all BP2X for these applications. That being said I'm wondering who has experimented/compared with GEM XL's for rears/surrounds, Studio 350's or maybe even Mythos 8's for rears or even BP6B/BP8B for rears. According to Chet @ DT (pleasure to talk to, but maybe he was trying to make me feel good about BP2X's), the rears do not fill sound like the surrounds do, which don't fill sound like the fronts/center do. So are BPX/BPVX or BPVX/P (do they still make these) wothy of upgrading to in terms of performance (feature, benefit advantage) over lower cost of BP1.2X/BP2X or even GEM XL's? I'm getting @ what OTK said comparing the BPX surrounds to the BPVX/BPVX/P about 10 Hz difference & 2 mids, even though these all appear to be great bass emitters for sound. I don't want to make anyone feel that if their setup includes these, that they overkilled. My intentionality here is to assist ourselves, by coming together & posting these concerns/problems out to fully enjoy our HT/Music/Gaming. By posting, sharing & learning WE can put ourselves in stronger buying positions in terms of recognizing what manufactures our selling/overselling(hyping) & what is needed that works for our applications/conditions. It's all about SYNERGY!

BTW My HT room measures 16 ft X 12 ft with 8 foot ceilings, HOWEVER there is an opening 8 ft wide and 9 ft deep that connects this HT LR with the dining and kitchen area. Like many, I'm going for clarity and depth, but want that occassional depth charge (U 571) chest pounding, body jolting, foundation moving experience. I would rather sacrifice some jolting for depth/clarity. Thanks to ALL, and I appreciate if you took the time to have read this. I'm looking forward to your inputs. Feel free to post or PM. And thank you!

I will answer some of you questions based on my experience. I am one of those people who have an external amp. Mine is only a 2 channel, my other 5 speakers are driven by my receiver. My receiver is rated at 130wpc, my amp is 250wpc. I did not get the external amp for the power difference. I was at a local shop to check out the new (at the time) mythos st. I liked them a lot. On te other side of the room was a pair of 7001's powerwed my a Mcintosh amp. To my ears, the Mcintosh/7001 combo sounded fantastic for music. The musical detail was very present. Some people say they can't hear the difference between a receiver and external amp. I completely believe them. I definitly do hear a difference. Enough of one to fork over over2k for a 2 channel amp. I listen to a lot of music on my system. I want to get a 5 channel amp some day but am fine for now with my Onkyo driving the other 5.

Itis good to match driver size between front and rear speakers. I had 5.25 in drivers in my center and side speakers when I upgraded to the 7001's. It didn't sound right to me. I now have 6.5'sall around. All is good.

I have two subs now. An svs powered cylinder and an earthquake supernova. If I were to get a sub now, I would be very tempted to go with the svs pb13 ultra.

Can't wait for X-Men Origins to come out on Blu-Ray to play back on our DefTechs.
I know, it will be maybe 3-4 months down the road, but just think how much extra audio engineering goes into the soundtracks nowadays and what we'll experience in a home theatre setting as a result?

Getting back to the thread, have any of you bought an Auralex Subdude or similar to mitigate the floor vibrations of your Deftech speakers or subs? I've read it's effective for wooden flooring, but not so much concrete or carpet.

Worth it or not?