Definitive Owners Thread - Page 423

ya, since its for gaming almost exclusivly (like i said 90% gaming 10% movies 0% TV/music) that was a no brainer for me.

both you and USCR mention ID subwoofers


espeically USCR's post, since he has almost my exact setup

.. whats an ID subwoofer? the brand you linked to was SVS, and between the 2 id go for the 12" version
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

is ID some kinda technology? whats it do? im really looking for more advice on what kind of sub to get here, what should i really be looking for? wattage? size? what kinda frequency response numbers do i want? hell what do those numbers even mean, if someone could explain that. I always thought the first number should be lower, but i dont know about the second number. The abyss actually had a higher first number than most other ones i was looking at
23-120 Hz ±3dB

ungh.
the pb12-nsd seems to keep coming up in a lot of threads
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

but its so much cheaper.. im worried i'll have that same muddy sound i had with the supercube, i just want it to sound as crisp as the abyss did. plus svs doesn't seem to list specs which i find odd.. not that id understand them anyway =(

also, anyone else got any coments on the whole power conditioner thing? whats the worst that would happen if i dont bother getting one, will my sound quality REALLY be effected?

Unless your experiencing some pre-existing problems with your utility service, then surge protection should suffice.

ID is in reference to internet direct. BB is big box stores and BM is brick and mortar stores.

reproducing sound at home and reproducing it in a large auditorium are 2 different things

they may use direct radiating speakers as surrounds in movie theaters but they use rows and rows and rows of them and they don't want a direct radiator speaker firing into each row of people, most people are sitting somewhere between 2 direct radiators on the sides. the best way to get that effect at home is with a bi-polar surround (or multiple rows of direct radiators)

and bi polar speakers are much different from di-polar. bi-polars function in phase like a direct radiator but offer a nice larger sound field. di-polar work out of phase (front and back arrays) to give you a more diffuse surround effect

di-polar speakers are not acceptable for multi-channel music but bi-polar surrounds can be very acceptable for SACD or DVD-A, especially if you have matching identical bi-polar towers all the way around but you're right, it all comes down to personal preference

some people only go with what THX requires witch is di-polar surrounds mounded high and to the sides (and side by side direct radiators for the rears but only if you're using THX processing to make it work right), some don't like that effect and go with bi-polar or direct radiating side surrounds and same with the rear

most people prefer in a 5.1 system a BPX type bi-polar side surround to match up with the BP towers and in 7.1 it's still up in the air about the rears, it's about 50/50 direct/bi-polar

but there are no "rules" in this hobby, it all comes down to personal preference. there are so many ways to skin a cat

thanks prog, that's pretty cool

Kenshin,
Most subs will perform quite well in your sealed bedroom, this would include the Abyss. But the PB12NSD, will perform even better than the Abyss at a significantly less cost. SVS is a Internet direct company which aids them in producing high quality audio equipment at less cost because of very low overhead.

i've been pretty lucky with the surge protectors from sears hardware. i use the heavy duty ones with the highest "joules" rating. don't think i ever spent more than 20 or 30 bucks for one

i've got electronics around the house have have been plugged in with zero protection for many years that have never gotten zapped yet and we get a lot of storms around here

i lost a DVR once and i think that came in through the 75 ohm cable when lightning hit the pole in front of my house

I had a sony tv get zapped. It was at the end of the warranty and I ended up getting a new one for free three years later. Now all my equipment gets protected with a monster cable unit.
And by the way, thanks to Chet for the new end cap for my 7002. Looks great!

I have several different kinds I use on almost everything in the house. In Florida, surge protection is absolutely imperative.

Hey guys,

Trying to figure out my next move.

Here's the current setup:
Front: 2 BP7000 powered each by a Emotiva XPA-1
Center: 1 LCR3000 powered by a Denon 2808
Rear: 2 BPVX also powered by the Denon 2808

Should I go with a Emotiva XPA-3 to power the center and rears or should I get a XPA-1 also for the center then still power the rears with he Denon?

There's no way I can get 5 XPA-1, just to expensive, heavy, and draws a lot of power...so theses are the options I came up with. I'm leaning towards he XPA-3...thoughts?

Very nice setup! I would go with the XPA-3. You'd get the plenty of nice, clean, Emotiva power to all speakers, and leave the receiver to function as your processor.

The 3000's recommended power is 20-400W, and the XPA-1 supplies 500W; I just can't see any advantage to feeding the 3000 that much power. The 200wpc provided by the XPA-3 to your 3000 and BPVXs would run them very nicely, for a very affordable price.

ah that makes sense, so those subs are all direct buy online, cool. guess that means no shopping around for better prices on them ;P

so power condioners are just total bs for a system of my size? My concern was just losing performance from noise in the lines, or a good surge protector limiting the current it could draw. Is that all just bunk?


its not the gear getting dmgd im worried about, i know surge protectors are fine for that, im concerned about losing performance, or choking my system.. again it kinda sounds like a scare tactic but i dont know it kinda makes sense that with all the electronics i have running in my room i could have problems with noise (like i said 2 tvs, 2 comps, reciever, 3 powered subs, dvd player, 4 game systems, lights, massage chair) its just a question of wether this would actually effect the sound at all. 400 bucks sounds awful steep for somethign like that

does anyone here actually USE a power conditioner?

A good conditioner shouldn't choke the power available to your system. I think this is a common misconception. It simply protects from incoming power spikes that might cause damage, and filters out some of the noise that can affect equipment performance. Particularly if the AV circuit is shared with other home appliances, lights, etc., that cause line noise, this can be helpful. (I would emphasize that I don't mean to say that such conditioning is always necessary.)


I use a power conditioner, but I must say that my principle reasons are (1) it makes for a very nice 12-outlet "power strip" integrated with my equipment stack, and (2) it provides surge protection for my AV electronics. I don't worry too much about line noise because I use dedicated circuits, but there are a few DC wall-warts involved. Also, none of my speakers run through that unit- they are fed from a separate circuit that terminates at a small in-wall surge protector/line conditioner.

FWIW, at one time I had several amps from different manufacturers powering mains, center & surrounds putting my system together over time. When I finally powered the 3000 center the same as my mains the 3 speakers became one. Prior the center just had a different sound that prevented it from blending as well. Eventually I used a lower powered same company and style amp for the surrounds, again an improvement in blending all the speakers together but minor compared to driving the center same as mains.

Guys,

I ran my Denon initial setup and it told me to check the phase on the left speaker. I checked the wireing and it looks ok. The bass does seem to lack some, but I only have the volume up to 1 oclock position. Does this seem right? Should I turn it up a bit more and try the setup again?

Thank you.

Jack

Audyssey often has some trouble with bipolars, and sometimes you have to just dismiss phase errors if you double-triple-check the cabling and know it's okay.

Just anecdotally, based on reading this thread, most people seems to have their subs dialed in somewhere between 11 and 2 o'clock. (Mine are at 11.)

It is very common for people to feel that their system lacks bass after running Audyssey. The explanation I always hear is that we are so used to excessive bass, accurate bass reproduction seems anemic by comparison. (Quite analogous to the way accurate image settings can look bland because we are so used to the excessive "pop" in most TVs' default picture settings.) If you really want to increase the bass levels, you'll probably get better, more accurate control over it by adjusting the level in your receiver rather than the dial on the speaker.

That's what I figured but even a hip hop song I tried playing seemed rather bland. It does come alive at much higher volume levels though. Also it seems like my Denon puts out a little more punchy bass then my Emovtia XPA-1s. Do you think it's worth trying to wire the highs and mids to the XPA-1 then hook the lows to the Denon? Especially it's kinda of like a bi amp, even though the lows on the BP7000s are self powered...

Overall everything still sounds really good. I think I'll reset my Denon just incase I messed anything up.

FWIW,
In my case Audyssey on the integra 9.8 with bipolars is a give & take. No problems with phase detection during any of my calibrations but in my room Audyssey seems to roll off the high end. No real problems on the low end but I calibrated at 12:00 position, then dialed them up to about 1:15. I usually keep audyssey engaged for HT but not so much for music. Ran the calibration several times, lot of trial and error. Seems like minor background noise can really skew the results. Last time I think used eight to ten test points, some points were repeated, also set a blanket over the back of my leather couch to reduce reflections too close to the microphone position, my best results so far. Audyssey along with tower placement, requires a lot of trial and error, you need to get everything else right first and use it as a final tweak not a cure all solution.

ADZ... pm sent ref AW6500's

+1

especially the level setting on the sub sections of powered towers. this is something Audyssey can not set and should be carefully calibrated with an SPL meter first before running Audyssey

with regular speakers and a separate sub, Audyssey can set the level of the subwoofer very easily but powered towers should be treated as "3-way full range speakers" that just happen to have a level adjustment on the woofer to compensate for room size and acoustics. once that level is set properly, Audyssey can now treat it like any other full range tower and do it's tweaking

Once I get a SPL meter what CD/DVD should I play to dial in the bass and volume level?

Avia has a nice feature that will send low frequency and high frequency noise to each channel so you can set the sub level on every channel

when testing each channel, avia will toggle back and forth between highs and lows

Well I think I figured out the problem. I notice I unplugged one of the towers some time ago because a storm was coming in and forgot to plug it in aftwards...duh... good news is that I wasn't able to identify it as being the issue so the lower frequencies must be blending though the room rather well lol

kind of outta the blue...

watched "benjamin button" last night...nice movie

the tugboat ride around the harbor is a little slice of deep bass heaven...crank it just a tad...and hold on!

Well I got my power/outlet issue taken care of...for now I picked up a couple of those little plug-in/on wall surge protectors and have each tower plugged into it's adjacent sidewall. Doing the math again after adding the new speakers and AVR I was actually quite a bit over the max wattage rating of the Pan4300, whoops.

Other than that - no issues so far, the 7002's are simply amazing, and I haven't done anything with the receiver yet other than setting speaker distances and crossover points. Eventually I'll pick up the SPL meter/Avia package, but haven't had time.
We had some friends over the other night and they wanted a demo so I played the first 10 mins of Master & Commander on blu ray...love all of the subtle surround effects inside the hull and then of course the ensuing battle. When that first round of cannon fire hit and the subs really kicked in they both grabbed the couch like they were about to be blown away...it was really funny.

Puppy gets here this weekend...I'll have to post a pic of the new "decor" zig-zagging across the front of the HT, lol. Picked up these cheap plastic 18" high fence links from the gardening center at Home Depot so we have some sort of barrier set up ...easier to train that way, and they are low enough to where it's not blocking any of the sound. Whatever works I guess.

I know that those little things are marketed well, and tempting, but I have literally seen one catch on fire because of too much current going through it, and they really do not do the AC filtering that you are hoping for. The transformer in the amp itself will do a much better job than that little guy.

Absolutely! The movie might not be everybody's cup o'tea (I loved it myself), but the blu-ray's audio and video are both reference quality.

It's not the Monster SW200 you may be thinking of, just a small Belkin single outlet surge protector on each wall. I don't really need them for power filtering, this was more of a temporary workaround to get 750 watts off of my Panamax, which feeds everything else. Low joules rating, but I usually unplug if we have a storm...even the best surge protectors are toast if you get a close strike.
I didn't want to plug the speakers directly into the wall outlets so hopefully this will provide some protection until I find another solution...for now I think this is better than nothing.

hmm sounds like a surge protector might be find, do conditioners really make a difference? I want to know if they'll actually improve the performance of the speakers.. somethign like this:
http://store.audioholics.com/product...iew_fullscreen

will that actually clean up the noise in the lines and give any improvment in the sound? Id think recievers and stuff should have filters for that

if its a waste of money would a regular old surge protector like this
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...121&lpage=none

be fine then? what kinda joules rating am i looking for? thats just above 2k

kenshin-dono,

I don't think you would detect any audible improvement unless you are experiencing power-related issues already.

There is, however, considerable value in protecting your gear with a good surge protector. The one at Lowe's would probably offer plenty of protection, but for not much more, something like this Tripp Lite power bar offers ten outlets, 5700 joules protection, and component insurance for life. Personally, I would find all three of these advantages worth the extra money. You can't have too many outlets in your HT, the higher level protection makes disaster less likely, and you have excellent coverage if disaster does occur.

I don't mean to push this one, in particular, as both Monster and Belkin make similar units (as do many other manufacturers).

I have the Onkyo 705 and the Def tec ProCinema setup together but when I'm hearing anything less than 10dbs I can hear a sound like listening to a blank tape, and as the volume goes up you can hear it louder. When I first set it up I ran the mic speaker auto calibration and I haven't mess with it since but it is now starting to bother me. Another thing is that I have the L and R channel hook into the sub just as recommended by Definitive Technology.

Can anyone tell what am I doing wrong?