Definitive Owners Thread - Page 511

Fairly straightforward, Mike. Generally, the best results will be achieved when you locate the tweeter at or near ear level. And, since I'm imagining you'll be seated most of the time, using that position will likely yield the best result. So, just get a ballpark measurement of the distance between the floor and your ear while seated, and mirror that onto the opposing wall/stand where the speaker will reside and position the speaker tweeter to reflect that measurement.

Now, I realize your DLP display may be a bit taller than this measurement where the 2002 is concerned, but that's ok- there's not a lot you can do about that (although "toeing" the speaker a bit up from the rear may help a bit with directivity). BUT, I would still recommend correctly placing the L and R speakers, as it will still tend to deliver the finest sound, ESPECIALLY for any stereo music listening you'll almost certainly be doing at some point.

presto.

James

In the market for a new receiver. I have a 5.1 system consisting of all Studio Monitor 450's

I need a good receiver to power all 5. I might even go to a 7.2 system of all 450's and two SVS subs. I wanna spend between 8 and $1200.00.

Can anyone help me compare the ProCenter 1000 and the Mythos Seven as center speakers? What are the differences in the technologies of these speakers and is the Mythos supposed to be a better speaker? This would be for use in a basic 5.1 set up in a large family room for tv and movies. Thanks.

that's sweet, 5 sm450's all the way around?

i've been using Denon receivers with my def tech towers for over 13 years now with no problems. i would recommend either the Denon AVR-2310CI

http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_0...CI.html?tp=179

or the Denon AVR-3310CI

http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_0...CI.html?tp=179

the 1910 is also a nice receiver at a nice price

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AV19...10.html?tp=179

what are you mains?

it's best to stick with the same brand and the same line within that brand

you want all your speakers to be as identical as possible, especially the front 3

it's important to use speakers that use the same tweeter and mid drivers to maintain a seamless transition when sound pans from channel to channel

I've gotten the approval for putting the SM350s on stands.

I was just looking on Definitive's site and the stands they have for the studio monitors are only 28.5 inches. That's just too short for my needs. Anyone know why they are so short?

And more to the point, can anyone recommend some good stands?

Ear level is about 45 inches. I was thinking of getting stands that are 36 inches since the 350s are almost 11 inches tall. I think that would put them right at ear level. Or should I go with 45 inch stands? Thoughts?

Thanks again for all of your input.

Thanks,
Mike

I (enthusiastically) second otk's vote for a Denon receiver. I love my Denon.

I haven't chosen my mains yet. If I get the procenter 1000, I will get the DT 800s as mains. If I get the Mythos Seven, I will get the Mythos Gems as my mains. What do you think?

I have a 7.1 set up using defitintive 7002s for fronts and a 2500 center, and am running into prolbems. Any one have a pioneer sc-27 and use definitive speakers and have any tips?I got a new sc-27 and everytime I try to set up it just shows my right and left speaker and says errer and then does not recornize all of my other speakers. I have tried reconnecting all the wires and have hooked up my old receiver and all my speakers work with my onkyo 805. I thought my sc-27 was broken and have sent it back, the store is sending me a new one. thanks

What about Onkyo. I hear the 807 is a good Receiver, also the 1007 seems nice as well. Anyone running theses for their Def. Tech?

Adding to this, I also have a denon (3808ci) and i've never had problems with it, denon makes great receivers.
You can always go to the nearest best buy and demo it if it has the mangolia ht room

I would be comfortable with any mid- to high-end receiver from either Onkyo or Denon powering Def Techs. I lean more toward Onkyo (have run 805(s), 876, and now a 5507 pre with my systems without issues), purely from a value standpoint (I think they offer more bang for the buck, with some tradeoffs). I use outboard amps, so the "sound" from either Denons or Onkyos is a non-issue for me.

I've got the SC-27 too, and the MCACC tends to read reverse polarity on the DTs for some reason. At first I went back and forth checking and double checking all of the wiring going through the walls, and finally just ignored the warning. When I swapped out other speakers, it was fine, so I have no doubt that the bipolar design might be effecting the mic. Just confirm the wiring then ignore it, run the cal, then tweak the settings. You will find after words that it'll sound pretty crappy, but don't dismay.

Check the EQ on just the 7002's, and you will find it rather severely cuts some of the lower frequencies - seemingly irrationally. I found my 125hz cut to about -8.5, while 63hz and 250hz was near zero. I manually adjusted the 125hz back into ave between the 63hz & 250hz and it made a big improvement. Before, the whole system sounded like hell. From there, went to the speaker channel levels and dropped the center -1.0 to set the vocals back a bit, and raised the surrounds and the rear surrounds +1.0, and I've settled in at that for while. Once the speakers get 'broken in' a bit more, I'll do the same again.

With the above, I'm finding that's about the best you'll get out of these DT's. I really didn't like them very much right after I got it set up, but I'm slooooowly warming up a bit after I've put about a month on them. They're not great, but eventually I'll replace the 7002's. I hope this helps.

Your mileage may vary.

the room is about 1100 ft2 and I'm not so concerned about SPL to be honest but more an all encompassing sound and I might be going about it all wrong. I was at a friend of a friends place not long ago and listened to his little 35w tube setup and was impressed with the clairity and separation in the sound. And the price.. wow.. tube setups aint cheap.. but the payoff is amazing..

I can't see myself going the tube route as I use the room/AVR for movies and audio and occasionally everyday tv watching and the 805 does all of that very well.. then I hear guys with power amps talk about clairity and seperation and I get all silly in the head.. I think I just have to educate myself about how a PA works and what I'll benefit from one.

you should try and audition both at a def tech dealer if you can and see which you prefer

just going by the specs, the pro center seems to offer more bang for the buck

if it were me, i'd probably go the pro route

I have the Onkyo 1007. Upgraded from the Onkyo 606. I have the BP7004's, CLR1000b and BPX's. I am very happy with the 1007. If you keep your eye on Newegg, you can find it for a very nice price. The change from the 606 to the 1007 was pretty dramatic IMO. The sound stage really opened up nicely. I chose the 1007 over the 807 because I wanted the 2 HDMI outs plus the price difference wasn't much.

I think I'm going to audition the 807, I don't need the second HDMI out, so...

Fronts: Def Tech SM350
Center: Def Tech CLR2002
Rears: BP2x
Sub: Super Cube III

Is the Denon 1610 powerful enough to power these speakers or do I need to step up to the 1910.

I would recommend turning whatever receiver you have into a preamp processor and sending the signal out to 2 channel amps. I have found that a single AVR with one power source cannot compete with multiple stereo amps in the sound quality or output capacity. I just switched over to this setup and will probably never rely on a single AVR to power all speakers again. It's possible there is one avail out there but they cost $4k+ and you could get the same quality/level of sound for 1/3 of that with separate amps.

Room size, and your listening level preference would be needed. Keep in mind that DOUBLING the power only produces another 3db's of volume. That's why making choices on AVR's based upon 20, 30 , 40 or 50 watts worth of powers seems a bit spurious to the learned rig-head.

Let's look at your room dimensions and I'll bet we'll find you can reach some pretty decent levels with the 1610. Then, if you decide you want more headroom, god bless ya.


James

[quote=ohjay;17868312]the room is about 1100 ft2 and I'm not so concerned about SPL to be honest but more an all encompassing sound and I might be going about it all wrong. I was at a friend of a friends place not long ago and listened to his little 35w tube setup and was impressed with the clairity and separation in the sound. And the price.. wow.. tube setups aint cheap.. but the payoff is amazing..

I can't see myself going the tube route as I use the room/AVR for movies and audio and occasionally everyday tv watching and the 805 does all of that very well.. then I hear guys with power amps talk about clarity and separation and I get all silly in the head.. I think I just have to educate myself about how a PA works and what I'll benefit from one.[/QUOTE

Just an opinion/confession to follow.

I am a hopeless gear-head. I realized a long, long time ago that I have a disease and, unlike most of the decisions I make in life, not all of my A/V choices are rooted in either practicality or, sadly, an abundance of irrefutable fact.

Power amps are a great example of that reality in MY experience.

First, I have owned DOZENS of hi-end AVR's and power amps. Dozens. They've varied in power output from 60 watts per channel to 600 WPC. I have no doubt spent thousands of hours listening to them with every channel of media conceivable.

And you know what? I can say that, at normal or even moderate listening levels, there was nary an audible difference between ANY of them. Now, I'll openly admit to having never owned a "tube" amp you spoke of. Although I've heard them and have always felt that some, to me anyways, OPENLY color the sound in a way that simply appears un-natural to ME. My feelings are solely built around and upon solid-state amplifier tech that represent 99% of the market.

Now, I know some will discard my aforementioned assertion and my cotton-filled ears. Good for them. I don't own everyone's ears, so I cant speak for them. All I can do is provide my own, rather extensive experience.

Now, does this mean every amplifier is equal in every regard? Of course not. Larger (or more efficiently designed) amps, with more robust power supplies and better heat dissipation (amongst other factors) will play LOUDER, likely last longer, and MAY provide a bit more punch in the area of dynamics (key word being may).

BUT, imperatively, this is usually only realized at significantly higher levels than those most humans subject themselves to 98+% of the time. And, importantly, with the power encased in many well-built AVR's these days, these "normal" (and even above normal) levels are easily achieved in most small to average sized rooms.

The science doesn't lie. In a 20X20 room (the size of a normal living room) a well-constructed AVR delivering 100 clean watts to a pair of moderately sensitive loudspeakers (like DT's) can deliver SPL's at or near 100db's ATLP.

Put it like this: there's a well-known (and despised within some hi-end circles) gentleman named Richard Clark who's had a long-standing $10,000 prize/reward to ANYONE who can detect and differentiate properly functioning, level-adjusted power amplifiers.

Thousands have taken the test.

The $10,000 is still in Richard's pocket.

DO I think those who purchase separate power amps are dunderheads?

No. I own them and I am certainly not a dunderhead. They have their place in a small percentage of home applications.

Do I think the VAST majority of the "audiophile's" money is better spent on quality source material, loudspeakers (and their configuration), and room treatments?

Absolutely.

take it for whatever it's worth.


James

The room is 10' 6" by 15" and the ceilings are 8"

The TV is on on the wall that is 10' 6"

Here is a diagram I recently posted. Sorry for the re-post.




As for the SM350s, do you guys recommend putting them on stands or should I put up small shelves on both sides of the TV? If stands, can anyone recommend good ones? I see some have mentioned stands by Sanus. The Def Tech stands are too short.

+1. And I own (and use) two Sunfire amps in my setups. I prefer outboard amps for the simple reason that they provide ample headroom for peak dynamics in soundtracks (my amps are rated at 400 watts x 7 and 205 watts x 5), and help to take some of the carrying load off of my receiver/pre-pro. I just upgraded to an Onkyo 5507 pre/pro for my dedicated theater, coupled with my Sunfire Signature Seven 400x7 amp, but prior to this I'd always used a receiver as a pre/pro. The dedicated pre/pro with the balanced outputs significantly lowered the noise floor vs. using a receiver as a preamp, which is the precise reason that I got it. Other than that, for the cost difference and power provided, my Onkyo 876, at about 1/4 the cost of my amp/pro-pro combo (which were both purchased used), is no slouch, and definitely not only 25% as good. If I had to quantify the difference, it's maybe 5%, but for me, it was worth the cost. That's the decision that everyone in this hobby has to make for themselves, as every piece of equipment has a vastly diminished return as you get up into the better quality gear.

FWIW, I ran surround setups for about 15 years with only a receiver, using a variety of speakers, and never had a problem. With very few exceptions, pretty much any modern receiver will adequately drive any modern speaker at normal volumes.

Can you wall-mount the 350's? They've got a keyhole mount in the back, and I had my 350's wall-mounted as rear surrounds with no problem prior to my theater renovation. That way you could mount them at the height you want. If cabling is an issue, you could run the speaker wire along the wall (up or down to your speaker), cover it up with one of those adhesive-strip wire covers, and paint it to match your walls.

Right schroedk.

The key word to the entire issue, is: application.

James

Lemme post a pick of my wall-mounted 450's. I used (TWO) small diameter lengths of PVC to encompass the wire, painted them the color of the wall, and, by all accounts it looks great.

I'll throw a pic up when I get home.

Ahh heck, found a not-so-good pic of my old BPX's on my laptop, but you get the idea. It looks a lot cleaner and unobtrusive than the pic indicates.

James

Does anybody know if it would be dangerous to place my receiver on a shelf right next to the active subwoofer in my 7001 tower? I am out of space and this is really the last place I have left without completely redoing almost the whole setup. Might the sound waves or magnetic field have any adverse effects on the receiver? (it's and onkyo tx-8555 if it makes any difference)

Also, is there currently or has there ever been any girls on this forum!?

^ You shouldn't encounter any issues. Thousands of arrays almost certainly have the fronts AND centers within a foot or two of the processor/receiver.

I once attempted to ascertain if there was a larger chasm between the sexes than the hi or higher end audio/video world and I came up empty.

Sports? No...not anymore really.

Ditto for cars, and, in many circles alcohol.

Maybe gambing?

If there's 6 girls who appear anywhere on AVS with any semblance of regularity I'd eat my Trinity.

James

The 350s do not have a key hole for wall mounting. Plus they seem a bit heavy from wall mounting. I have the BP2X and they have the keyhole.

Here is a pic of the back of one of my 350s...

I just picked up some slightly used BP2X speakers from 'sideofpotatoes'. They are mounted as side surrounds and I purchased a tube kit from Home Depot to hide the wires. My walls are a tan color but I have bright white trim and A/C vents. The tube kit is also bright white and the 'wife' liked the contrast look without being painted to match. the tubes just stick to the wall with double-sided tape and they have 90 deg connectors to route around stuff.