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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 588

post #17611 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

hey G are your 7001s/clr3000 crossed ?

Yup. 7001-40, 3000-50
post #17612 of 30951
Here is what audysse set my xovers at;

7001, full I have them at 40
3000, full I have it at 50
bpvx, 60 I have them at 50
bp20, 40 I have them at 40.

I placed the setup mike at my 3 recliners and the center barstool behind them. Audyssey set my sub level at -12, I have it at -6. I also used a ratshack meter to adjust the levels of each sub at the main listining position.
I know it has a harder time measuring lf but it seemed to work good in my case.
My reference audio test is "lucky man" by elp on dvd-audio. It is an incredible recording with some pretty prodigious lf.
post #17613 of 30951
When you have a 7.1 arrangement, and you're watching something in 5.1, which speakers are being used, the sides or the rear? I mean, say you have BPX's for rears in 5.1, you get the wide soundstage. SM450's for rears in 7.1, you get the directness(?) What's the best of both worlds?
post #17614 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felton007 View Post

When you have a 7.1 arrangement, and you're watching something in 5.1, which speakers are being used, the sides or the rear? I mean, say you have BPX's for rears in 5.1, you get the wide soundstage. SM450's for rears in 7.1, you get the directness(?) What's the best of both worlds?

in a 5.1 system, if you have a pair of bi-polar speakers set-up properly you can get the best of both worlds

right now i have a pair of bp30s as surrounds in a 5.1 system. the bp30s are off to the sides and slightly back from the listening position and aimed at the listening position

sound pans from side to side so seamlessly you would swear that there are speakers right behind you when the soundtrack calls for it

this is just a temp set-up. i usually run 6.1 with 3 bp2000s across the rear

now that i'm 7.1 capable i'm going to try bp2000s as my side surrounds and bp30s as my rears and see how that works out
post #17615 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felton007 View Post

When you have a 7.1 arrangement, and you're watching something in 5.1, which speakers are being used, the sides or the rear?

missed that question

it uses the sides
post #17616 of 30951
since there are no true 7.1 movies out on blu ray yet, any sound that's getting sent to the rears would be matrixed

sort of like how with pro logic you get a matrixed center from a stereo signal
post #17617 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felton007 View Post

When you have a 7.1 arrangement, and you're watching something in 5.1, which speakers are being used, the sides or the rear? I mean, say you have BPX's for rears in 5.1, you get the wide soundstage. SM450's for rears in 7.1, you get the directness(?) What's the best of both worlds?

When a 5.1 soundtrack is being played with a 7.1 setup, the side surrounds are used. While experimenting in my dedicated room, I found using bipolars (BPX originally, now BPZ/A inwalls) on the sides and direct firing (SM350s originally, now UIW75 inwalls) in the rear provides the best soundfield regardless of the soundtrack being played (5.1 or 7.1). As always, though, I recommend you experiment in your own room and setup, and your tastes may be different from mine, as well.
post #17618 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

since there are no true 7.1 movies out on blu ray yet, any sound that's getting sent to the rears would be matrixed

sort of like how with pro logic you get a matrixed center from a stereo signal

Actually, OTK, there are a number of 7.1 encoded blu-rays, but they do make up a very small percentage of the overall total. Here's a link to one list I found: http://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mov...cordingly.html

I'm not sure how up-to-date the list is.
post #17619 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by schroedk View Post

Actually, OTK, there are a number of 7.1 encoded blu-rays, but they do make up a very small percentage of the overall total. Here's a link to one list I found: http://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mov...cordingly.html

I'm not sure how up-to-date the list is.

oh thanks. did you hear any of them yet ?

i wonder where they got the rear channel info for a movie like wrath of khan 1982
post #17620 of 30951
they probably just remixed that older stuff and did the matrixing for us

is there a list of movies where the film was mixed with 7.1 in mind ?

like the haunting was put out in DTS 6.1 discrete where there's an actual 6th channel of information (not matrixed)

are there 7.1 movies with actual discrete rear channel info ?

i can't imagine star trek the original series from the 60s having any surround info at all off the master. i would think something like that was shot in mono
post #17621 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

oh thanks. did you hear any of them yet ?

i wonder where they got the rear channel info for a movie like wrath of khan 1982

Probably most of these are just matrixed from 5.1. I am not sure there are many actual mixes in 7.1. It looks better to put that on the slipcover, but probably doesn't amount to much. Of course I could be wrong, but I would highly doubt they went back in re-mastered the audio on most of those films.
post #17622 of 30951
This little website is one of my favorite gems for searching anything you can think of to search about blu ray movies...

http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php
post #17623 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakpakva View Post

Probably most of these are just matrixed from 5.1. I am not sure there are many actual mixes in 7.1. It looks better to put that on the slipcover, but probably doesn't amount to much. Of course I could be wrong, but I would highly doubt they went back in re-mastered the audio on most of those films.

Well, fine, if you want to get all technical on me...
post #17624 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by schroedk View Post

When a 5.1 soundtrack is being played with a 7.1 setup, the side surrounds are used. While experimenting in my dedicated room, I found using bipolars (BPX originally, now BPZ/A inwalls) on the sides and direct firing (SM350s originally, now UIW75 inwalls) in the rear provides the best soundfield regardless of the soundtrack being played (5.1 or 7.1). As always, though, I recommend you experiment in your own room and setup, and your tastes may be different from mine, as well.

Thanks schroedk & Otk. So the bipolars doing side duty in 7.1, do rear duty when watching something in 5.1? So in essence I would lose nothing with the SM450's in the rear, and that would actually be the best of both worlds?
post #17625 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felton007 View Post

Thanks schroedk & Otk. So the bipolars doing side duty in 7.1, do rear duty when watching something in 5.1? So in essence I would lose nothing with the SM450's in the rear, and that would actually be the best of both worlds?

You're welcome. If you have a 7.1 setup, and your receiver/prepro is decoding 5.1, then the rear speakers are simply inactive. You're not losing anything by having the SM450s in there. As OTK mentioned, you can matrix a 5.1 and utilize the rears, but it's more filler than anything. I went ahead and went with a 7.1 setup in my dedicated room, mostly because if they ever do start mixing discrete 7.1, I'll be ready. Until then, I occasionally use THX Ultra to matrix 7.1, and sometimes do straight 5.1; it simply depends on my mood.
post #17626 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felton007 View Post

Thanks schroedk & Otk. So the bipolars doing side duty in 7.1, do rear duty when watching something in 5.1? So in essence I would lose nothing with the SM450's in the rear, and that would actually be the best of both worlds?


I would answer most definitely.

Thats why in most 5.1/7.1 speaker placement diagrams the side surrounds are recommended at between 90 and 110 degrees from listening position. 90 being directly to the side of the listening position and 110 being slightly behind. Like Otk, (and due to the majority of 5.1 soundtracks) I run them closer to the 110 position yet angled at the listening position etc. At 110 and "pointed", bipolars give you the focus desired with 7.1 and the wide rear/side soundstage offered with just 5.1

Have fun

S
post #17627 of 30951
Well it looks like its going to be a couple weeks before I get my 3808CI back...so the wife actually agreed to let me move the theater set up to the main living area when we are back up and running.
Right now I have sm 350's doing the rear duties...a couple questions....They are kinda big for the up stairs are there any recommendations to go with that has a little smaller footprint ( mountable )....Also I don't use the 3808 to its potential....I really only need something to decode the hd formats so I have been thinking about getting some new equipment...and using the 3808 in another room. I like the Emotiva UMC 1 - XPA-5 idea but don't know if thats overkill as well....We just watch movies 95 % of the time and will run the tv through the main set-up as well.....BP7001SC and a CLR3000...
Thanks for the thoughts
post #17628 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdg360 View Post

Well it looks like its going to be a couple weeks before I get my 3808CI back...so the wife actually agreed to let me move the theater set up to the main living area when we are back up and running.
Right now I have sm 350's doing the rear duties...a couple questions....They are kinda big for the up stairs are there any recommendations to go with that has a little smaller footprint ( mountable )....Also I don't use the 3808 to its potential....I really only need something to decode the hd formats so I have been thinking about getting some new equipment...and using the 3808 in another room. I like the Emotiva UMC 1 - XPA-5 idea but don't know if thats overkill as well....We just watch movies 95 % of the time and will run the tv through the main set-up as well.....BP7001SC and a CLR3000...
Thanks for the thoughts

BPVX & Emotiva. Although the UMC reviews are pretty lackluster. Maybe just a lower model Denon since you are already familiar with the UI. The BPVX is a larger speaker but it's footprint is smaller(it is just taller). It is also mountable, and would be an exact match with the other speakers in your setup. Act fast though, before she changes her mind!!
post #17629 of 30951
Does anyone know if Definitive sells factory refurbished speakers? I've seen a seller on ebay selling a quantity of center channels that are "Refurbished and Sealed by the Manufacturer". I was just wondering if these are legit. (they look real to me)

I thought if they are truly refurbished by definitive, it might be worth saving a little money.
post #17630 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by drocpsu View Post

Does anyone know if Definitive sells factory refurbished speakers? I've seen a seller on ebay selling a quantity of center channels that are "Refurbished and Sealed by the Manufacturer". I was just wondering if these are legit. (they look real to me)

I thought if they are truly refurbished by definitive, it might be worth saving a little money.

If the seller name reflects "bajaw---------" He's legitimate.

Many of us, me included have done business with him.
post #17631 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

If the seller name reflects "bajaw---------" He's legitimate.

Many of us, me included have done business with him.

yea, its baja-something. Good to know he's legit. Thanks!
post #17632 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakpakva View Post

Probably most of these are just matrixed from 5.1. I am not sure there are many actual mixes in 7.1. It looks better to put that on the slipcover, but probably doesn't amount to much. Of course I could be wrong, but I would highly doubt they went back in re-mastered the audio on most of those films.

+1 Movies have been mixed in 5.1 for ages now...that's the theater standard. (Even though they have all those speakers lining the side walls, it's still a 5.1 setup.) There's no way studios are going to go all "Bladerunner remaster" for their old movie catalogs....they'd have to gather all the original audio recordings and hire audio mixers to completely remix a new audio track. Most movies wouldn't even have enough discrete channel information to formulate a 7.1 track.
post #17633 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by drocpsu View Post

yea, its baja-something. Good to know he's legit. Thanks!

bajawaverunner = DefTech

This is how they sell their refurbs, extra stock, etc.
post #17634 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felton007 View Post

Thanks schroedk & Otk. So the bipolars doing side duty in 7.1, do rear duty when watching something in 5.1? So in essence I would lose nothing with the SM450's in the rear, and that would actually be the best of both worlds?

Just be sure to identify your surrounds as 'side surround' or just Left Surround or Right Surround in your receivers speaker menus in a 5.1 setup rather than calling them rear surrounds, no matter where they are placed.
post #17635 of 30951
The bpvx configuration is excellent for side surround duty. I have a switchbox set up so I can use my bp20's as either rear surrounds or a second set of side surrounds. There is almost no 7.1 software out there. About the only time the 20's played was on some music surround modes. Seemed like a shame to have 12 drivers and 400w going to waste
post #17636 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

The bpvx configuration is excellent for side surround duty. I have a switchbox set up so I can use my bp20's as either rear surrounds or a second set of side surrounds. There is almost no 7.1 software out there. About the only time the 20's played was on some music surround modes. Seemed like a shame to have 12 drivers and 400w going to waste

damn that's pretty cool. how does it sound with both the BPVXs and the BP20s playing together as side surrounds ?
post #17637 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

...My reference audio test is "lucky man" by elp on dvd-audio. It is an incredible recording with some pretty prodigious lf.

Bartman,
What DVD is that? Always enjoyed ELP, saw a great show at the old Cleveland Stadium in the 70's.
post #17638 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by rweeb View Post

Bartman,
What DVD is that? Always enjoyed ELP, saw a great show at the old Cleveland Stadium in the 70's.

It's on a dvd-audio (5.1 music) sample disc. Been out of print for a while now.
post #17639 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

damn that's pretty cool. how does it sound with both the BPVXs and the BP20s playing together as side surrounds ?

It's pretty good. The only problem is that there is no way to increase the level to the 20's when they are in the "second side" mode so the vx's drown them out a little.
post #17640 of 30951
Well, the CLR 3000 situation is getting fixed by Def Tech, but now I have another problem.....

My Reference Supercube is putting out a low grade hum/rumble, even when nothing is being sent to it. I have about a 6' and 20' RCA coupled together, going around my room to behind my couch where the sub is placed. Then, I have a Y adapter to split off into the L/R low level inputs of the sub. That's when I get some major humming. When I take off the Y adapter and run a single RCA into the sub, there are no problems (or at least too low for me to detect). I then tried just touching the single RCA to both of the Low Level ins and immediately the hum comes back. It looks like the problem is isolated to the Low Level L/R RCA ins, but what could be the problem?

On a side note, the outlet it is plugged into also runs components for my 72 gallon aquarium, but I turned that off to test it the hum and it was still there.

Thanks
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