Definitive Owners Thread - Page 824

I certainly understand the r&d challenges of any new products. I will say that the most "missed" product is the bp30. A lot of us agree it was the value leader of the bp lineup. F definitive were to release an updated version for a reasonable msrp, you would have a hit.

What's the thought for having a SM55 and SM65 model instead of just the SM45 and SM55? Is the SM65 mainly for more output where as the SM55 will sound slightly fuller in the low end due to the larger driver?

How does the sonic character compair to the old SM350 and SM450? Will all three be available in retail chains such as best buy, etc?

Glad you dropped in. Can't wait to see some more new models. There are quite a few definitive junkies running around here. Like many of the others, I'd like to see some more large footprint powered speakers. Maybe it would get me motivated to move up from my BP 2000 and CLR 3000 set up. I'm also a big fan of the non power towers. I started with the BP-6b and dreamed about those 30s the guys in here love.

Yeah, it does seem that those BP30's get mentioned often. I haven't heard them but think it would be a cool to have a refreshed version of them with the latest Def Tech drivers

Welcome Joe! High performance audio is fun, though it has this odd side-effect of inducing upgrade-itis every 6 months or so.

FWIW, I'll add another vote to otk's excellent suggestion for a dual-opposed super tower, even if it is a wish-list item. I recently added an Epik Empire to my setup and combined with my BP2000s, I am surrounded by 360# of sealed 15" bass goodness.

Just saw a bunch of posts and wanted to welcome Joe also. I'll echo some requests and say put out another tower like the BP30s. Since you mentioned R&D time/cost is limited on a super tower with subs, an updated BP30 should more cost effective. I would definitely audition a pair if one were to come out on the first day and replace the BP30s I have now if they are better.

[quote=HD 335;21295637]Just saw a bunch of posts and wanted to welcome Joe also. I'll echo some requests and say put out another tower like the BP30s. Since you mentioned R&D time/cost is limited on a super tower with subs, an updated BP30 should more cost effective. I would definitely audition a pair if one were to come out on the first day and replace the BP30s I have now if they are better.[/QUOTE

I have 2 pair of BP30 towers for sale if anyones interested. Due to room size I replaced them with BPVX's
Shoot me a message if interested

Hello Joe. First off, welcome to the forums and thanks for the support.

I'm pretty much a rookie to the high-end audio world, and though this forum has helped me a lot it also has confused me as there are a lot of mixed opinions to my following question, and I would like to hear your take on it.

I finally took the plunge and bought the final component to complete my humble 5.1 set up.

My system consist of the following;

BP 8060ST F/L/R

CS-8060HD Center

UIW RSS II as rear Surrounds

SVS PB13-ULTRA Subwoofer

Denon AVR-3311

My question is, what should all my speakers be set up at in the receiver? Some say you should set the 8060ST to large and others to small? or should a let audyssey do all the settings on its own? What is the best way to connect them, Sub cables or speaker wire?

If others want to chime in, by all means please do.
Thanks in advance.

"by the book" the 8060ST should be set to "small" with probably a 40 or 60hz crossover maybe even 80hz

def tech has a different "book" and recommends "large"

you could try them set to large and see how they sound. you can probably run them as large with most music but if you plan on blasting some very demanding home theater material you will probably want to run them small @ 40hz as a starting point

in a "perfect" world your mains would be in the "perfect" spot for all frequencies, your svs sub would be in the "perfect" spot. measurements would be taken and crossovers set accordingly but we don't live in perfect anechoic chambers. every room has different acoustics, every set-up is different as far as gear, placement, ect. and everyone has different listening tastes so it takes a lot of listening and trial and error

run your favorite movies and music with the 8060's set to large then do it again at small @ 40hz then again @ 60hz then again at 80hz. do that over and over for months and you'll find that "sweet spot" setting that suits your ears

if i were to give a quick "off the cuff" answer i'd say run them small @ 40hz

but really you should experiment. same thing with your center. for your surrounds i would try 60hz & 80hz and see which gives you the best experience

Thanks for the reply Otk. I always enjoy reading your input.

I get that trying different settings would be the way to determine what suits my ears the best. But my main concern is that I didn't want to "overwork" the speakers and god forbids damage them in the long run. For the most part I will be doing 80/10/10 movies, games and music. I would say that I'm going to be playing it fairly loud, but then again I've never even heard equipment of this caliber (coming from a samsung HTIB) and I don't know what to expect so take my "loud" with a grain of salt. Is this even something I should be worried about?
Thanks again man.

i would check with chet at def tech but i believe any speaker or sub with a passive radiator has an internal hp (high pass) filter to protect the driver from frequencies it can not handle. some may call this a subsonic filter. any ported (or passive radiator) design should have this. let's say your port (or passive radiator) is tuned to 30hz. that means you will get maximum undistorted SPL headroom at 30hz and then below that the response will drop off quickly due to the nature of the design. if you try to plug 20 15 or lower cycles to the driver, the driver will act badly. most designers implement an hp filter to protect the driver. or in some cases like the JTR captivator (the passive model) will highly recommend that you implement one yourself at a certain frequency

i'm 99% sure def tech has such filters on their towers and subs so there's no fear of damaging them but you will be missing out on those frequencies unless you set to small and redirect to your sub

for example let's say your tower is tuned to 35-40hz range (i'm just tossing that out there it could be lower) and let's say the film you're watching on dvd or blu ray sends a 20hz sound effect to the left or right main channel. those frequencies will just be rolled of by the hp filter in the towers and "lost". setting the towers to small with a 40hz crossover will redirect those frequencies below 40hz to your svs subwoofer which can better handle them

Thanks again Otk. I def don't want to loose any of those low frequencies that my SVS can reproduce with no problems. That said, it makes sence to set the speakers to small and 40hz. But I'm still wondering why Deftech recommends to be set as large. Hopefully Joe will chime in and give some insight behind their OM.

I think some media does sound better with speakers set to small and 40hz crossover, but I always end up setting it back to large for some reason lol I wish there was a 20Hz crossover on the Denon. My Velodyne sub has a 20hz crossover switch. Maybe Def Tech can add that to the towers since AVR's appear to be lacking that low of a crossover selection.

[quote=JAMES MCHUGHES;21296624]

Hey bub, you have PM!

Hello TruWarrior, yoiu asked about "why the SM65..."
The SM 65 will have a pair of 5 1/4 surrounding the tweeter in a D'Appolito array. In a larger cabinet, with a bigger bass radiator, it will be able to go deeper in the bass, and play louder overall, than the SM 55 with a single 6 1/2 and a smaller bass radiator in a smaller box.
Sonically, you will find these to be a nice upgrade from what we designed 10 years ago! I am not sure exactly who will carry them, but you should be able to get them from any of our current dealers. Best regards, Joe

Hello HD 335, are you by chance a guitar player? Larry Carlton put a lot of those sweet licks onto Steely Dan records with a Gibby 335.

As to the many request for the BP 30... one problem is that we can't re-create that product at the kind of price that made it such a great value back then. But I hear you guys - many have talked about their love for that product, and what a good value it was. Thanks again - best, Joe

Hello ElFather, thanks for your question, and OTK, thanks for your very detailed and thoughtful answers. YES, the key is to experiment. You are right that we don't live in a perfect world, and there is no one "right way" to run these things. We suggest setting a pair of 8060's as Large, but I completely agree that with a high quality sub, depending on your program material and the physical positioning in the room, you may be happier with them set to Small with a 40 Hz x-over point. We suggest setting them to Large simply because not everyone buys a sub, and those who do may have a less bass-capable sub. The good news is that 8060's can handle some tremendous bass. You don't have to worry about blowing them up. As OTK points out, we have low-pass filters in place so that they don't get overloaded. I hope this helps - best, Joe

Nice Snoopy, OTK! I love the Schroeder song on piano.

By the way, if you guys need to send me an e mail at work, it is jfinn@definitivetech.com. Best regards, Joe

I own the 8060-St towers and its cool to hear some info on them from an insider....:-) ...thx Joe....I love my towers and its funny but when I go into best buy sometimes and look at their audio stuff and people are auditioning speakers they always comment on how they like the 8060-st's the best...:-) ...puts a smile on my face...cheers

Thanks for stopping by Joe. I appreciate your reply.

I am glad that you like those 8060's, Josh. I think they are an excellent value. Once they are broken in, they sound really, really good. Play some music on them loud and do it soon! Best, Joe

What is the best way to break them in and generally how long does it take until they've been fully broken in?

I'm in the same boat; I can't decide between the 8020's and 8040's.

I just emailed Chet some concerns but may be I can try here as well.

I went ahead and demoed the 8020 in home, but may try the 8040's to see how much better they are for the price (extra 5 hertz?).

I'm might end up going with the CS8060HD for a center, but was a bit concerned if the center will vibrate due to small built in sub.

Also, will the 8040ST bass radiator rattle? Have you had many complaints? (This is something I found with the prosub I use to have in the past).

My thoughts are to go with a 8020ST with a CS8060 center. However, I'm thinking about the 8040ST with a CS8040.

If it were you would you go with the first setup or second (more powerful center or more powerful floor speakers)?

I'm just trying to save myself a little coin, otherwise I'd go all 8040's (8040ST, CS8040).

Lastly, are the 8020 able to handle a large full bandwidth setting? I noticed the 8040 have it under the comparison chart but not the 8020's.
A/V Receiver Crossover Setting: Large, full bandwidth

Thx Joe....these are the best speakers I've ever owned and I'm glad I chose wisely...will do on the music...:-)

Cheers!

I finally wanted to post impressions of my revised setup. Work has been crazy, so I haven't been able to spend lots of time playing. Again, I went from myths st l/r, mythos 10 center, bpx surrounds and myths 4s in the rear to a pair of bp7000sc with 8080hd center, kept bpx surrounds and moved my mythos st's to the rear duty. I also have a sc reference on each side of the room for lfe.
First music: I have listened to Fiona apple, Diana Krall, seal, nine inch nails, George michael, Dave Mathews and a few other artists. First and foremost, I could not believe the strong center vocal image I was getting. I thought this was only supposed to be a strength of my st's. No sir, my bp7000's image arguablly better in my room. Secondly, everything sounds more natural, less sterile and flat than my st's - just more interesting to listen to. Music has more depth - some instruments seem closer to me, some farther back. And they play with AUTHORITY. Playing pure direct set to large -the larger built in subs are just what my room needed. The st subs just couldn't move enough air. oh, and with my st's I had to sit right in the center of my couch to get perfect imaging. My bp7000's are more forgiving and image well even when sitting off center. I was really concerned about how much brighter the older tweeters may sound vs newer ones in st and new bp 2010 series - this is a non issue for me. They sound very detailed and are not fatiguing at all.

Now Movies: have only watched LOTR two towers and new Transformers (dark side of the moon). I was very concerned how mixing old bp series with new 8080 hd center and st series would sound. Thisnturned out to also be a non issue. Everything blends really, really well. I was perfectly happy with my mythos 10, but I didn't know what I was missing. Dialogue had Authority. Gandalfs voice was amazing. The 8080 provides a more realistic theater experience. I have my 8080 set to small and crossed to 60 and also have it running slightly hot compared to 7000's. This worked perfectly. One con, on a very few scenes, the 8080 sounded slightly restricted, almost like voices were in a small cave. I think this is due to my cabinet as I am only giving it about 3" of clearance on top. The sub MAY not have enough room to breath in certain situations. This was rare though. Now the change I did not expect to yield such benefits was going from mythos 4s to st in rear. The extra height of the st's really made the back of the room come to life. and of course, the bp7000's were amazing for these movies as I expected them to be. I just have wall to wall effects now. I do feel more power than my 4311 offers may help. I felt the need to keep turning up the volume.

Gaming: just awesome. Uncharted 3 is amazing and has so much info coming from the surrounds and rears. AND having the bp7000s really made all of the different guns in mw3 really come to life. Strangely, I discovered mw3 does not take advantage of the center channel or the rears and really made it less pleasing to play. Hope they update this in the future.

Conclusion: Just awesome, couldn't be happier with the decision to go bipolar. I am definitely hooked. Listening to music, I can 't tell you how many times I initially made sure the center was not on. I just can't believe I like these speakers this much for music. I fully expected them to perform better for movies and games. Relative to my mythos st's - I just prefer the bp7000 in almost every way. And I couldn't be happier with the 8080. It's also a huge upgrade over the mythos 10. I make these comparisons not to upset current mythos owners. In my last house when my room was smaller, I thought my mythos st's were the bomb. They were also in a living area and perfectly fit the waf/sound ratio. Now that I have a large dedicated basement - well the bp7000's are definitely the way to go.

NOW for the next upgrades I am CONSIDERING (DREAMING ABOUT)- I think I would like to go with separates. I am considering outlaw model 7900 or maybe earthquake cineenova grande along with a marantz 7005 preamp. Secondly, I am considering switching out my bpx's with another pair of 7000's or bpvx's. Finally, I am thinking of adding a trinity in the back of the room or selling my sc references and getting a pair of seaton subversives. I obviously reallycant afford any of this and would probably do this over the course of another few years if I am very lucky. any suggestions on the upgrade that would make the biggest impact? I am leaning towards the idea of switching out bpxs for bp7000s. Another option is to wait for new versions of the bp7000 to come out, put them up front and move the others to surrounds. I can save some more $$ in the meantime.

Sounds like a great setup. Pics would be cool! In terms of upgrades, I know that I was very impressed when I moved from a sc reference to a trinity. And the submersive gets great reviews everywhere you look. I am a bit of a bass addict, but that's where I'd look to upgrade first.

Great yosh, sounds like we have another bipolar addict. You are on a path very similar to mine. If you could find a set of bp30's for the rear, that would be ideal IMO. The $ saved could go toward Seatons. I went to separates a few years ago and have no regrets, same with multiple subs. Bipolars are so underrated for music. I now have carver alIii's up front which are dipolar based ribbons, very similar to the dt's. Making system changes and upgrades is addictive.

Hello Mac7504, you have several questions, so I'll try to address each. It's cool that you were able to demo the BP 8020's. The 8040 is no doubt better, especially as it has the BDSS drivers which aren't found in the 8020; twice the amp power; two bass radiators and no port. Is it worth the extra money? Only you can answer that. But if you like music as much as movies, the 8040's are a good way to go. The 8020 doesn't have the same deep bass performance or authority as the 8040, which is why it costs a little more. The matching center is great, but if you go with the 8060 center, I dont' think you will be bothered by vibrations. Good luck with your purchase, and enjoy! Best, Joe

Hello Elfather, I think the best way to break speakers in (any manufacturer, not just us) is to simply play some music on "repeat" when you leave for work. Keep playing them and you are likely to notice a difference. There are a lot of opinions about how long it takes, but I have felt that I heard a difference in just the first 5-10 hours. Others say it takes more like 75-100 hours...but I think my speakers love it when I feed them my favorite rock n roll. That's just my view! Best, Joe