Definitive Owners Thread - Page 835

Yes.

This is the quote from Sean Olive:

"... not all room correction products are equal, and two of the tested products produced results that were no better, or much worse, than the unequalized loudspeaker."

So I probably misinterpreted that.

I my experience, my room does not appear to benefit from Audyssey. With any speakers.

So if your room is screwed up like yours, then I guess room correction may help.

I don't see Siegfried Linkwitz and Peter Aczel recommending the use of room correction, though. But they are not gods either.

In th end, if room correction helps, then use it. If it does not help or even worsens the SQ, then shut it off.

Don't use it just because some people love it, and don't discard it just because some people hate it.

Every room and every case is different.

If Audyssey improves your SQ, then use Audyssey.

For some of us, Audyssey does not appear to improve our SQ in our rooms.

Our DT BP7001SC's come ALIVE with OUT all the extra processing! We shut off the Audyssey MultiEQ XT32, shut off the DynVol, and shut off the DynEQ, set up the LPF for LFE at 120Hz. and Xover at 80Hz. to both fronts and the dual subs, and adjust the fronts DT SuperTowers SW's to around 11:30 o'clock -- now the World is Pure and Truely alive.


After years, I do NOT believe in all this extra processing for our room, just have to get everything straight and leveled in w/ gains per speaker, and make sure we use UnCompressed Audio sources (.flac or .wav) straight thru the Denon AVR -- Very Clean and Natural the way it was exactly recorded.

11:30 ?

how did you pull that one off

I preferred my DTs @ 10:45 myself.

No right or wrong here as well. Whatever gets you the best possible midrange clarity as well as powerful bass. Some people think 10:00 is the best sub level for that midrange clarity. But just like room corrections, every room/case is different.

I'll take a look at the manual. That "DRC & D.com" does not ring a bell at all. Never seen that on the set up menu.

As far as the LFE is set to 0db do you mean the sub under channel level trim??

The bass coming from the speakers when i tried them as large and sub set to "NO" it's actually pretty good. When I have them set to small and let the SVS take over the difference it's minimal. Barely noticeable.


Yes, I have already adjusted the trim levels. That emotiva it's a nice piece but it's def out of the question I can not afford it right now.


Thanks for the response.

If you clap your hands up by the center speaker, do you get a sharp echo? What's the chances of getting some tritraps in the corners eventually? Your denon should be fine power wise, but I did notice that the new series do have less sheer output compared to the bp700x series at the same power level.

My responses to your questions are in the box above.


Just keep telling yourself this is the fun part... :-)

PS - when performing a "SUB Crawl", I believe you want to literally place your sub in the main listening position then crawl around the room looking/listening for the best bass location. Once you find it, that's where you then place your sub. And hopefully that sweet spot isn't your kitchen table..... :-)

Cheers

Fun part? More like going crazy part! lol I'm affraid to touch anything for it's taking me a couple years to get it sounding as good as it does now, but I still would like a few more room treatments, if not a dedicated HT room

Hands down the best thing I've done are room treatments treatments.

Yes and very easily by turning the knob, 11:30AM, as the knob goes from around 7AM to around 5PM or so...

otk, you have to put your hand on the knob on the rear of the speaker and it will turn clockwise or counter-clockwise for you, do you need help turning the knob there?

Please do NOT try using your feet again on it, that is hard on your toes.

Your right on... maybe mine is at 10:49

You will notice a BIG difference as we have the 3311, and were not getting the punch we wanted, so added the Emotiva XPA-5 with it, and the world came alive w/ all the extra headroom and power per channel with all channels driven. Then we lifted the 3311 into another room, and replaced it with the Flagship 4311 Denon still driving the amp.

One thing you will notice is that the specs on a Denon AVR, and most others, are not for ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN (ACD) in power output, and we noticed that big time with the 3311 and 4311 AVR's. But once we ADDED an External Emotiva XPA-5 AMP (@200W RMS per Ch. into 8Ω) we had all the power we needed and a lot more to handle all the Peak Transients that do occur in Movies as well w/ Music. Problem Solved.

Save up some extra cash, as you will not beat their price right now on the XPA-5, Great DEAL!! Then pick up a few cables from Monoprice.com and run them from your 3311 pre-outs to the amp, and hook up your speakers right to the amp.

Been there, done that, and YOU WILL NOTICE A BIG DIFFERENCE, and it is worth the money in our Opinion.

No sharp echo, i do get an echo but not severe. I'm not against the tritraps as long as the look good and help. What exactly do they look like?


lol. I don't think my wife will be excited about a big box in the middle of the kitchen, so lets hope not.


The cone is moving like crazy and even "chuffs" or "bottoms out" to relatively low volumes. Like in the hulk scene i had the volume to about -20db and it "bluh" yet i didn't feel any chest pounding/slamming. I wish i knew the correct terminology to all these things, it will sure make it easier for me to express what i'm feeling/seeing.

I believe i've tried the LFE+MAIN but it did not allow me to change frequencies to the fronts. But i'll try again.


Thanks for the advice man. I will def keep my eyes out and maybe try to score a used 1 from audiogon or ebay.


PS.
Here is the video of what i called the sub bottoming out. Right around 22 sec.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5XEx...UxOywJ3i08ziEy

Room treatments... True, that's were I need to go next.
We have a modest dedicated theater room that sounds really good yet I know treatments could improve it. I've performed the clap test and it's not much of a return yet it's there. I'm sure at a minimum covering the first reflection areas would make a difference. My wife however thinks the idea of hanging 2 to 4 inch thick large objects on the walls would look hideous..... Not to mention she thinks it sounds perfect as is.

Cheers

If that's the case with the SVS I bet it's definitely in the wrong spot. My guess is if you do walk around the room leaving the sub where it is you will find a zone that really rumbles etc. You mentioned your space isn't that big, I actually thought by the pictures it looks pretty good size for a single sub ( and a nice space it is..). But one would think the SVS/13 would handle it. Probably just a placement issue.

I know several of us have been commenting on settings etc. I'm not a Denon expert thus by no means want to come off that way. Just trying to throw some ideas your way. :-). All of this trying/experimenting with the settings however will really help your Denon learning curve. :-). I know I had to take notes to remember how each one of my memory saves on my current Yamaha were configured. Having the different configurations saved to a specific memory position made it easier to "listen" for the best config.

Cheers

i Have walk around and the only place where it seems to rumble a bit louder its behind the sub :-/ but nothing significant, i mean i almost want to compare it to my samsung HTIB sub felt in my 17x13 Master bedroom. Yea, that bad.

I'm reading Through the manual as we speak i want to get familiar with the receiver but man this is a huge manual. Thanks for bearing with me guys, this my first ever high end audio system and it took me over a year to put all the pieces together, so if i seem a bit annoying with me questions i sincerely apologize and hope you can understand my frustration. The experience has been like waiting over a year for really bad sex lol.

I appreciate all suggestions man! thanks again.

You need to do a search for Batpig's Denon to English Dictionary on the AVR forum.

I would do a reset on your receiver and start fresh. Be sure that your SVS volume is set to about 33% volume on the Sub itself too, so you can adjust the trim in the Denon to get it better tuned in.

Also, from your youtube video, there must be something either wrong with the room or your expectations. The way that the sub is moving, you should have some great results.

So, here is what I would do from start to finish:
Digital reset on your AVR
Make sure the volume is set to 33% on the SVS
Only use speaker wire on your speakers (no LFE/RCA cables)
Run Audyssey (make sure speakers are set to small)


If you still have problems, check the Sub Forum here and the AVR forum (look for the Audyssey sticky)

I've got a quite similar setup, which includes:

F/L/R 8080ST
Center 8080HD
Surround UIW RCS II
Rear Gem XL
SVS PC-12 Plus DSP
Denon AVR 4311CI

I'm very happy with the sound quality. I've got the denon configured as below:

fronts - large
remaining speakers - small

sub mode: LFE
LPF for LFE: 120

xovers:
center 40 hz
surround 80 hz
back 150 hz

Audyssey:
MultiEQ XT 32: Flat (but "Audyssey" curve is probably better in your room)
Dynamic Eq: On
With dynamic volume I set it to either Day or Off

Audyssey is settings the trims as it needs so that 0db on your receiver is the correct "reference level" (http://ask.audyssey.com/entries/7328...eference-level). After I did the audyssey setup I checked things with my radio shack SPL meter. And I raised the sub level by 2.5 or 3 db because I like the extra bass.

I would also check that your sources are set up correctly (bitstreaming, etc.), and that you're getting the right surround modes, so that it's not some other part of the chain causing you problems.

They need to make those sub volume levels DIGITAL, instead of ANALOG.

I hate reading analog clocks.

I apologize in advance if a question similar to this has already been asked; I searched around, but I did not find anything.

I'm looking at setting up 7.1 surround in my dedicated theater room. The room dimensions are 14.5' X 26' X (tiered seating...averaged ceiling height of appx. 10').

At this point, I'm wondiering if would be ok to "mix and match" the between the 8000 series for my speakers. What I'm considering is the 8060s for the 2 fronts, either 8080 or 8060 for the center, the 8040SR for the side surrounds, and either the 8040s or the RS III's in-walls for the rears.....

Will these all match properly, or should I try to stay within the same class?

Thanks (I'm a newb).

Mixing and matching is completely fine . It is "ideal" to have the same drivers/tweeters for all speakers but this is sometimes difficult to achieve, especially for $$ and aesthetic reasons. I have many different series of Definitive's in my 7.2 setup and they all blend great together. Now.........that is a big room you have there. Are you using a dedicated sub? Which one?

At least try to use the same speakers in the front. With surrounds, you can mix it some what if you stick with the same brand. It's pretty amazing when you use the same speaker all the way around

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been tweaking around for the last couple of days and it's starting to sound much better i dunno if it's maybe because the speakers are breaking in or maybe i wasn't playing content loud enough to hear the vivid life-like sounds i want. I've been playing the blu-ray @ 0db and sounds pretty good.

The sub "issue" remains the same, I'm just not feeling it in my chest, in the sweet spot or any part of the house at that. Can my room seriously be that messed up? I don't know, it could be too that i had beyond high expectations, but based on the reviews and glorifications how could i not? I feel my room isn't big for that sub and from what i read before some people have had no problems pressurizing similar and even bigger size rooms so I'm still left baffled of why i can't feel the bass anywhere in the house. I played " i love you bass" and i literally didn't not feel the bass but felt the tremendous air movement on my pants lol. I don't get it.

I made the video so you guys can see the space isn't relatively big, only 9' ceiling with the exception of the entrance (about 13')

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A10nCdXb7EA

I wanted to try all suggestion made here before i went in the pb13 ultra thread, and i have. So i will be posting there soon.


How big is your room? and hows does the bass feels?

I went into the BD players audio setting and made sure digital output it's bitstreaming "Unprocessed" so that area is covered. Currently i only have a BD player and Playstation in my system.

Any specific reason why you set your speakers as large and not running the sub as "LFE+MAIN"? I thought that was the point of setting them as large if you already have a standalone Sub.


since i went and manually raised all my Channel levels by at least +6.0db, So does that mean all this time i've been playing movies @ 0db i technically have been playing them way beyond reference level?? if i understood correctly Manual setting overrides Audyssey's auto settings.

Why don't you try corner loading the sub in the rear by the window? Else if you want to feel the bass, put the sub up against the couch . You can get a RCA cable at radio shack to extend the cable if needed. What's the crossover set at on the subwoofer?

My room is 25' x 25' and between the 8080s and the SVS I'm happy with the bass. My room is carpeted and has some basic acoustic treatments.


There are a number of different ways to set this up, but I found this worked best for me. I'm using connection option #2 as shown in the DefTech manual. So I used a y-adapter on one of my sub-outs to connect both 8080s and have the SVS hooked up to the other sub-out. The 4311 is good in this regard as it can independently adjust two subs (though I really have three). So my SVS is getting just the LFE channel while the 8080s are getting a full-range signal. From what I've read LFE+Main isn't usually recommended, but your mileage may vary. Probably best to consult the batpig guide and the audyssey thread to get some opinions on this. You could also try DefTech online support. Chet gave me some tips as I was setting up my system.


Yes, I believe that's right. Also the dynamic EQ is making adjustments based on the absolute levels so you're changing its behavior a bit.

I'd try some of the resources I mentioned above. And I don't think you said how you have the low freq level control on the back of 8060s set. I found that with my 4311 and the LFE inputs on the back of my 8080s I had to set it pretty low-*like 9 o'clock. You should check the Audyssey curves after auto setup to see what type of equalization it is applying.

The other thing is to just work on the positioning of the towers and your SVS. I watched your video and you certainly seem to be getting some airflow out of the ports of the SVS.. maybe you need to reposition it to get the bass you are looking for.

I am in the process of searching for a pair of either BP-2000's, BP-3000's, BP-7001's or BP-8080's. If any of you guys have a pair that you would like to part with, please hit me up!

it does have some legit uses

for example if your mains are set to large and you also have an external subwoofer and you're listening to 2 channel music, your external sub will just be sitting there doing nothing. using the LFE + main option will send the bass from the main channels to your external sub as well and it doesn't have to be bloated, that's why we have a level control on our subs. the in-room response should be smoother since the bass is now coming from 3 sources instead of 2 (results will vary depending on a lot of factors)

the same with pro logic material. if your mains are set to large then your sub is just sitting there doing nothing until you hit the LFE plus mains (or double bass) option

it's a tool that most will most likely never have to use because chances are if you're using a sub then your mains are set to small and it doesn't matter

it's really for people who have a sub and like to keep their mains set to large and even then it's not for everyone as every room's acoustics, every set-up and every listening taste is different

it's all trial and error

That would be like my Klipsch RW-12d Subwoofer -- DIGITAL it is -- Klipsch got that one right on.

How about your Rythmik Servo Controlled Subs, are they DIGITAL? For the price they should be.

I know a Dealer that has a pair of BP7001SC's, used and built in 2004, will give one yr. warranty w/ them. He quoted me $1800 for the pair, but you might work that down some.

Drop me a PM if interested.