Definitive Owners Thread - Page 890

RCA cables bring out that last 1% of performance

Talking about all this RCA stuff, I've noticed that the CLR3000 mids dig lower then the BP7000SC mids. To me this doesn't create the most seamless sound stage. The BP7000SC subs do put out some upper mids but it seems like the amount will vary depending on your room size. I'd like to try crossing all the front speaker over at 125Hz, since they can all play above that, then send the bass singal to the speakers sub inputs, but I'm just not sure how to hook up my HGS-18 then. I don't want it starting at 125Hz too

2nd option is that I have a extra BP7000SC. I can try replace the CLR3000 crossover with the BP7000SC crossover...hhmm....

hi truwarrior. what are you basing that on ?

I turned down the subs then used a sine wave generator and a SPL meter about a foot from the speakers mids. I put the clr in a vertical position.

how low did the mids in the 7000s play ?

were you measuring the front or rear (sometimes people have their towers turned around to have the active subs facing out and the rear mid array is crossed higher than the front)

and how low did the clr3000 measure ?

I measured the front. The 7000's didn't go very far. They really dropped an audible amount by 100Hz compared to the clr3000, more then 3dB. I can't remember how low the clr3000 went. I think 80 but then it dropped like a rock.

Hi all. would it be a simple mod to add a switch to a bpv2x to switch between bipole and dipole or would the electronics need to be changed or added?

Jim

I'd have to play with it yet I believe either a single or two DPDT (double pole/ double throw) switch would do the trick.

Basically bipolar speakers are connected "in phase" while dipole are "out of phase".

I believe you can order a single switch that basically has 4 independent center connections and then "double throw" for each of the 4 thus 8 other independent connections (quad pole/with double throw on each). This would allow you to wire it so you have both the drivers pos and neg as well as tweeter pos and neg (of one side of the BP2X) connected to the center terminals and then both dipole and bipolar wiring coming off the outer 8 terminals etc. IE - flipping the switch would then just reverse or parallel the speakers polarity on the one side creating either bi or di speaker etc..

Depending on the crossover schematic however, a single DPDT switch may be able to be inserted easily.

Hmmmmm

Sounds like a fun mod to me...... :-)

Cheers

New HT being designed.
Dedicated room, rectangular and fully sound insulated.
Prefer an in wall setup + subs.
What's the best way to go?

Open budget....

7.1, 7.2, 9.1, 9.2 ?
In wall subs?

In-wall speaker wire is relatively inexpensive and if I was building today would wire for 11 channels minimum and maybe even more. Basically just prewire, label and zigzag behind the sheetrock where ever I feel a channel would/could be utilized.

As for in-wall speakers/subs. Definitive has a plethora of in-wall options spanning the budget.. :-) some are open speaker design and others have sealed enclosures. Depending on your construction the sealed enclosures could be best for sound isolation etc. You could easily and effectively have all channels in-wall yet I would highly suggest researching a false-wall setup/design for the front soundstage. This not only allows for much more capable speakers to span the front channels yet also allows for full size subs. All hidden behind a false wall wrapped in acoustical transparent (AT) fabric. If you are thinking a projector/screen you could even go the AT screen route and place the center channel behind the screen as well.

This discussion actually needs its own thread or at a min place it within the theater build section etc.. :-)

Let us know if you are thinking all Definitive or other speakers. Definitive does make an acceptable in wall Ref sub but they are pricey and you would probably want four of them if not two in combo with one or two dedicated ID/Internet Direct monster subs.... :-).

You have a fun road ahead of you!!

Cheers

I'm thinking all DT, that is why kept in in here.
I don't need others convincing me otherwise.

7.2: using UIW RLS II, and 2 Reference SCs.
Or would you use UIW RSS II for the surrounds/rears?

And if going to 9, or 11.2 what would you use for the 8/9 and 10/11?

Am i giving up that much sound going in walls vs floor standings for the front soundstage.
Kind of like having LCR all the same.
Also, this will be a front PJ and considering perforated screen.

hmmm. maybe def tech thought that extra 20hz would sound better in the sealed mids than the ported sub since it's a center channel and would be handling the very important dialog

i'm sure the def tech engineers had their reasoning

are you having trouble timbre matching ?

Another update:

Have the HK AVR 3600 powering 3x CLR 2002 speakers (all vertical) and the final tweak has been to disable tone control, no dolby volume. Amazing natural sound and clarity. Just need to bump up the volume a bit more to compensate for no treble/bass.

I would say so, upper range of bass guitars, upper end of bass drums, lower end of guitar's and male voices sound different between the front speakers, i.e. a deep male voice would sound deeper as it would panned from the left or right speaker to the middle. It's not a huge range, but it does make a difference. I thought I was told the crossover is at 80Hz, but it seems higher, else it's the enclosure, but I doubt it since it seems about as big as the CLR3000 mids enclosure.

I did notice that when I was playing the test tone, adjusting the subwoofer nob did make a difference in the volume of the tone from the subwoofer, but it seems like it needs to be around 12-oclock before it would get to a high enough level. I think a lot of rooms have issues with tones between 100-125Hz as far as nulls go, so maybe that's part of the issue.

Perhaps diffusers on the side walls would help, but I'm not sure what type I would need and if it would be too big or not.

What I don't really get is that when I demoed BP7002 before I decided to get the BP7000SC, they seemed to handle bass guitars better where as on the BP7000SC it gets lost a bit in the back ground. Anyone with a BP7002, I'm curious if you could check your mids and when they start to roll off. If they roll off the same, I'm curious when the subwoofer starts kicking in.

Hello Con,
Thank you for your positive comments about SM 55 - they rock! There are various opinions about break-in. The consensus here seems to be that there is a noticeable improvement after just 5-10 hours. Some also believe that there is a second jump after much more - the 50-75 that you mentioned. It may be that not all speakers react equally. Some here think that a bass radiator speaker like the SM 55 benefits more from extended break-in than a ported speaker (SM 45). Break-in of course is about getting the soft parts to flex - just like a new baseball glove. I sure would like to see an independent lab do a before and after test. Are any of you guys aware of such an independent test? Best, Joe

Hi Jim,
Thanks for buying Definitive! I am not sure about this one. In that speaker, the drivers are in the same chamber, so you'll wind up with them fighting each other. My guess is it would not sound so good. Also, you might be wandering into the warranty-voiding arena. I don't want to speak for Chet and Adam, but...this experiment may not be worth it. I hope this helps - best, Joe

Hello rr, the RLS II is a really good speaker, and integral enclosures are very helpful for a serious theater like you are planning. Those all around will make a fine theater. For surrounds, the RSS II is good, but you would have 4 1/2" drivers vs the 6" in the RLS II. Your question about giving up "that much" going for floor standing LCR vs in-wall... you'll have to answer that yourself. But certainly 2 x 4 wall studs set up a performance compromise that we don't worry about when building speakers like the BP 8000 series or the Mythos ST and STS. In-walls give you a cool cosmetic appearance though, and you are considering good ones with very good subs - so it will sound really good. PM me if you want to go deeper on that discussion, OK? Best, Joe

For anyone with surround back speakers already or considering making the 5.1 to 7.1 upgrade.........Here is a list of 7.1 blu rays I found on another forum. It appears that they keep this pretty updated....

http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/St...itle&Audio=7.1

Very informative site, Thanks.

I just upgraded to a definitive system. XTR 50 x3 and a supercube 6000. I left the previous rear surround in place, they are in wall (not sure what brand). And I added a denon 3312. So far I am very happy with the definitive sound it is crisp, clear and very non straining compared to my previous Cambridge Sony es system which was very loud but it felt like work to listen to at any length. Im still learning how to properly set up the denon and getting use to the clean sound, but it sounds great at low and high volume. Although i keep wondering if i should have bought the 60's. Just chiming in

Nice, how is the SC6000?

Joe, Do you have any advice for us with 7000 series 5.1 bipolar system who want to add wides or additional rears? Is it best to get two additonal matching CLR and use them as left and right then move the bipolar speakers to the wides or is it best to get another set of bipolar towers? Or perhaps use the additional CLR speakers as the wides? Or is it best to just go 7.1 with two more additional rears and skip the wides since bipolar speakers create a bigger sound stage? I would assume with the 8000 series, with the forward focus, the towers could be used wides and mains?

I don't see much documentation on the website for more advanced 7.1 configurations.

Thanks!

I know this is being asked of Joe but I think I can help. I have 7001's for the rears in a 7.1 configuration and think they are the way to go. Monopoles will work but it's not the same. If you have the room, that's what I would recommend. (any of the floor standing bipolars.) I tried using sm450's as height speakers (when I had the 7001's up front) but thought they did not add much to the sound field. I wound up taking them down. If I was going beyond 5.1 and were choosing between rears or high/wide, it's a no brainer. Hope that helps.

Well just thought I would share an interesting thing I tried.I own the 8060-st towers along with the matching 8060-cs center....no surrounds as of now and as a test with various crossovers I set my center at 50hz small aswell as my towers at 50hz small.I played the opening scene of star wars episode 3 and it was weird but with this setting I was really enveloped with a 3d sound stage like I never heard before.Ofcourse I did loose alot of bass because of the crossover but damn was the soundstage impressive.....I am still playing with the settings but in the long run it might benifite me to purchase a seperate sub.......Don't get me wrong the 10 inch subs in the towers are pretty darn good but that crossover setting of 50 hz was impressive.I have also found with this setting my speakers are more open and crisp...maybe because there set to small and don't have to reproduce every freq.......anyone else done this and noticed a difference?

otk,

Are you suggesting that today is not Saturday?

Run a pair of RCA cables to the subs for dedicated LFE and leave them set to small/50 - or attach those RCA cables to a pair of ID subs down the road. :-)

how would doing that be or sound different than running large with just speaker wire?...and also will using regular rca cables be ok or will i need sub cables?

It really shakes the room it's 20x20 and it's great for movies and music. I am pleased. I just got to finish setting up the harmony 1100 so it will control the sub too. Great system and it looks amazing on the wall.

I recently got to hear the SC-6000, and, it was pretty good. But very overpriced compared to the ID brands.