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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 920

post #27571 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

I replaced a procenter 1000 with a SM450 along with SM450 l/rs and felt that it was a good step up. Earlier this year I replaced that SM450 center with a CLR-3000 and felt the same way.
I bet...the ultimate goal for me is getting another 8060 tower for a center just gotta save...lol...then the 45 will move to surround duty...@wink.gif... But for now the 45 makes a great center...smile.gif
post #27572 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

edit how long are these DT speakers live expectantisty.
STB

One never knows yet,,,,
Lets just say I recently sold a pair of original BP10s from the early 90s (about 19 years old), and they still sounded like day one if not better. I'm also still using 4 BP-2000s and CLR2000 from 1996/7 and all have never missed a beat. Drivers all look, feel and sound new. I think if they are kept in a conditioned space out of direct sunlight, some of the 90s DT gear could last for 20-30 years if not more. I'm also hoping my BP-2000s are a sign of how long my BP-7000SCs will perform🎅😄
Cheers
post #27573 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

One never knows yet,,,,
Lets just say I recently sold a pair of original BP10s from the early 90s (about 19 years old), and they still sounded like day one if not better. I'm also still using 4 BP-2000s and CLR2000 from 1996/7 and all have never missed a beat. Drivers all look, feel and sound new. I think if they are kept in a conditioned space out of direct sunlight, some of the 90s DT gear could last for 20-30 years if not more. I'm also hoping my BP-2000s are a sign of how long my BP-7000SCs will perform🎅😄
Cheers

Same here. I want my BP7000SC's to last at least until the year 2040. Heck!! They will probably outlast ME. That is why I recommend putting at least 60% of the entire A/V budget into speakers. A good set of properly-used and maintained speakers can last 20 years minimum. Everything else in the room will be obsolete in 5 years. I'm still using speakers from the early 1990's in my A/V room. They are just surrounds now instead of main speakers.
post #27574 of 30930
I'm having issues with Audyssey and bass with my BP7000SC. I'm using high level inputs. When I run Audyssey, it basically removes all my bass. I was sugguested this below:

Hi,
When the internal woofers are connected with speaker-level connections they are not seen as subwoofers by the AVR. You should try connecting them via the line level connections (I assume they have a separate amp).

Best regards,
Chris Kyriakakis

Anyone notice a difference between using high level vs LFE with audyssey XT?
post #27575 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDKing View Post

Anyone?
Hi HD, let's talk crossovers! Those settings are not necessarily too low. The idea with setting crossover points is that we set up a dividing point, where frequencies above a particular point in the musical spectrum are sent to the satellites and center, and frequencies below that point are handled by the sub or subs. The reasons:
a) we don't want to blow up the mid-range and tweeters with huge low frequency information;
b) on the other hand, we don't want to overload the main speakers with deep bass that they will struggle to reproduce (causing distortion), when we instead have a dedicated speaker - the subwoofer - that is purpose built for this task. Subs have a big power source, plus a driver that is really good at reproducing deep bass;
c) we want a smooth blend between the subwoofer and the rest of the speakers. After all, if we can hear the deep bass blasting away over in the corner, and it seems completely disconnected from the main speakers... that is psychoacoustically ridiculous. When we go see the symphony, or a jazz band at a club, or Deep Purple, we never experience the bass as coming from somewhere else. It's an integrated part of the sound mix. So we always want a seamless blend between the sub and the main speakers, so that we cannot localize the sub. If we set the crossover too high, the sub will start reproducing voices and other parts of the music, and we'll be able to clearly identify where that stuff is coming from - not good. Set it too low, and it won't be able to do all that it should, and the midrange will get messed up by main speaker distortion.
But, since every room is different, and the size of the main speakers vs the size of the subwoofer can vary so widely, it pays dividends to experiment with those settings a little bit, to see what works best in your room. 80 Hz is the de facto starting point, but if you have huge subwoofers and incredibly bass capable main speakers, you will almost always set it lower than 80 Hz - or even run the mains full range. It's also ok to run physically less bass capable main speakers with the crossover up at 100 or even 120, if the mains can't get too low.
You don't want to run the mains full range if you have lesser expensive and / or physically smaller main speakers, such as the ProCinema or SM series speakers.
Having said all that, if it sounds great where Audyssey suggests - good! But don't hesitate to experiment a bit and use your ears.
Audyssey is much smarter than I am in some ways, but I have ears, and Audyssey doesn't. I hope this helps -
Best, Joe
PS Play your favorite CD tonight, OK?
Edited by joeatdefinitive - 12/10/12 at 8:28am
post #27576 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

One never knows yet,,,,
Lets just say I recently sold a pair of original BP10s from the early 90s (about 19 years old), and they still sounded like day one if not better. I'm also still using 4 BP-2000s and CLR2000 from 1996/7 and all have never missed a beat. Drivers all look, feel and sound new. I think if they are kept in a conditioned space out of direct sunlight, some of the 90s DT gear could last for 20-30 years if not more. I'm also hoping my BP-2000s are a sign of how long my BP-7000SCs will perform🎅😄
Cheers
Yes sir KJ, well designed speakers should last a long time. Gravity does cause some aging issues, but it doesn't surprise me to hear you say your 19 year old ones sound like day one or maybe better. I advocate that people who are trying to decide on one speaker vs a slightly more expensive one that they like a little better to go for it. It's not like a meal, which is gone a half-hour from now. Good speakers give a lot of years of pleasure. Best, Joe
post #27577 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Def tech says that the internal crossover is setup around 200hz. That seems a little high for my taste. I did help a buddy of mine setup some 8040's with LFE port and I thought they sounded a lot cleaner. We set the crossover to 100hz which was where he liked the sound of it best and then adjusted the volume.
Hi Brent, that means the internal crossover - ie., from the midrange speaker to the subs. It is a fixed crossover, not user adjustable. It's not meant as advice for you to set your crossover network for the system. I hope this helps, and thank you for owning DT - best, Joe
post #27578 of 30930
I'm building a floating cabinet to fit a center channel and other stuff inside and although I love my CLR3000 center, I would prefer something shorter in height and much lighter in weight. I currently have 7002 towers and BP2X surrounds and I'm about to put my CLR3000 center for sale and transition to a CS-8080HD center. I know that going down to an 8080 would essentially timbre match across the board but will the 8080 center be a downgrade? Either way, I definitely need a lighter center channel but just wanted to hear input from anyone with 7002 towers with cs-8080hd center. Thanks in advance!
post #27579 of 30930
So I received my bpx speakers and they sound awesome! My surround sound has come alive!I want to wall mount these but didn't come with the wall mount attachments. I do however, have some that came with my sm 450s. Will these work with the bpx? Any help is appreciated! Thanks
post #27580 of 30930
Would anyone use the BPX as front heights? Pro's and cons please.


Thanks in advance
post #27581 of 30930
Just received my 8060 towers tonight with the 8040 rears arriving tomorrow and the 8060 center arriving Wednesday. The good news: I see great potential for some awesome sound. The bad news: one of the towers is a dud!! The front-facing midrange driver on top has an immediately noticeable pop/hiss combination that's present whether wired as the left or right speaker. Meanwhile, the other tower sounds fine regardless of where it's wired. Total bummer, but at least the entire system doesn't arrive until Wednesday anyway. After calling Crutchfield tonight I was easily able to get them to send out a replacement unit. I swear this is just my luck with everything I eagerly anticipate. Here's to hoping round two goes better.
post #27582 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricWilliams View Post

Just received my 8060 towers tonight with the 8040 rears arriving tomorrow and the 8060 center arriving Wednesday. The good news: I see great potential for some awesome sound. The bad news: one of the towers is a dud!! The front-facing midrange driver on top has an immediately noticeable pop/hiss combination that's present whether wired as the left or right speaker. Meanwhile, the other tower sounds fine regardless of where it's wired. Total bummer, but at least the entire system doesn't arrive until Wednesday anyway. After calling Crutchfield tonight I was easily able to get them to send out a replacement unit. I swear this is just my luck with everything I eagerly anticipate. Here's to hoping round two goes better.
Hi Eric, I am sorry to hear that. The good news is that Crutchfield is there for you, as I knew they would be. Let us know how it sounds when you get hooked up. Best, Joe
post #27583 of 30930
I had to join the club by commenting on how amazing my new Def Tech speakers are. I also took advantage of the deal on the BP-8060STs at Crutchfield but decided after doing some research to go with the CS-8080HD and the SR-8080BPs. I originally was running dual Infinity PS212s and was worried that I wouldn't have enough bass without them but what I have found is completely contrary. I have a Denon AVR-4311CI and am running via an Y adapter the two 8060s off of Sub1 and the CS8080HD off of Sub2. I have set the Sub channels to send low end and LFE signals combined and with the levels on the speakers only at half this system is amazing me. I did try the speakers without the LFE connected but was more impressed with them connected. I am still in my discovery stages with setup but just felt the need to share my positive experience and excitement here.

By the way, I wanted to give a heads-up to other Denon AVR-4311CI owners in this thread. I originally wanted to run the 8060s as completely full range without the LFE connected but when looking at the setup I noticed that the front speakers only have a crossover setting only down to 40Hz. I didn't want to limit the ability of the speakers by allowing the AVR to stop at 40Hz so I went back to the LFE set up which allows me to send low end signals (crossed at 80Hz) and LFE signals through the sub outputs. I think this is why they sound better with the LFE connected. Well, on my system at least.
post #27584 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post

Would anyone use the BPX as front heights? Pro's and cons please.
Thanks in advance


My only thought on it would be that Audyssey generally recommends direct radiators for Heights and Wides.  That was why I went to the Pro Monitor 1000 for those 2 channels in my otherwise bipolar DefTechs.  I'd love to have a pair of nice towers for the Wides to go with my BP7002's, but all the towers are bipoles.

post #27585 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post


My only thought on it would be that Audyssey generally recommends direct radiators for Heights and Wides.  That was why I went to the Pro Monitor 1000 for those 2 channels in my otherwise bipolar DefTechs.  I'd love to have a pair of nice towers for the Wides to go with my BP7002's, but all the towers are bipoles.

You could probably go with a pair of CLR 2002 for the wides and flip them on their sides and put them on stands. If I had the room for wides, I would have bought a pair of CLR 3000 to go with my BP7000's. I'm good at woodworking, so I would probably remove one of the speaker caps and make a matching pedestal for the ex-center speakers. LOL
post #27586 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

I'm having issues with Audyssey and bass with my BP7000SC. I'm using high level inputs. When I run Audyssey, it basically removes all my bass. I was sugguested this below:
Hi,
When the internal woofers are connected with speaker-level connections they are not seen as subwoofers by the AVR. You should try connecting them via the line level connections (I assume they have a separate amp).
Best regards,
Chris Kyriakakis
Anyone notice a difference between using high level vs LFE with audyssey XT?

I have my 7000SC's set up with both the high-level bridge in place and an RCA cable connected to the LFE output on my receiver. It really didn't matter in my case whether I left the bridge in place or not. I'm using Audyssey XT32 with SubEQ, so I am able to tune the subs separate from the other channels. When I didn't have SubEQ, I just used a Radio Shack SPL meter to set them to 78 dB ( set receiver sub levels to 0 and run test tone -- use the knob in back of the speaker to adjust ) and then run Audyssey to see where IT set them in the receiver. If I wanted more thump, then I could adjust them manually in the receiver's speaker setup menu.
post #27587 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

I have my 7000SC's set up with both the high-level bridge in place and an RCA cable connected to the LFE output on my receiver. It really didn't matter in my case whether I left the bridge in place or not. I'm using Audyssey XT32 with SubEQ, so I am able to tune the subs separate from the other channels. When I didn't have SubEQ, I just used a Radio Shack SPL meter to set them to 78 dB ( set receiver sub levels to 0 and run test tone -- use the knob in back of the speaker to adjust ) and then run Audyssey to see where IT set them in the receiver. If I wanted more thump, then I could adjust them manually in the receiver's speaker setup menu.

Interesting, so you get decent bass? Is it about the same amount of bass with Audyssey disabled? I have very little bass after running Audyssey. I'll see if I can find some time tomorrow to dig out my RCA cables and run Audyssey again.
post #27588 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post


You could probably go with a pair of CLR 2002 for the wides and flip them on their sides and put them on stands. If I had the room for wides, I would have bought a pair of CLR 3000 to go with my BP7000's. I'm good at woodworking, so I would probably remove one of the speaker caps and make a matching pedestal for the ex-center speakers. LOL


I actually considered that at one point as I could find used CLR2002's for about the same as new Pro Monitor 1000's.  However, the specs are really close so I opted for new 1000's and mounted them mid wall with the DefTech mount.  So far, the 1000's are doing just fine and they blend well across the front soundstage.  The only non-DefTech is the sub, which is an SVS Ultra.  The AVR is a Denon 4520CI with Audyssey MultEQ XT32.  The calibration is really good, so I'm not too tempted to find a replacement for the 1000's yet.

post #27589 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricWilliams View Post

Just received my 8060 towers tonight with the 8040 rears arriving tomorrow and the 8060 center arriving Wednesday. The good news: I see great potential for some awesome sound. The bad news: one of the towers is a dud!! The front-facing midrange driver on top has an immediately noticeable pop/hiss combination that's present whether wired as the left or right speaker. Meanwhile, the other tower sounds fine regardless of where it's wired. Total bummer, but at least the entire system doesn't arrive until Wednesday anyway. After calling Crutchfield tonight I was easily able to get them to send out a replacement unit. I swear this is just my luck with everything I eagerly anticipate. Here's to hoping round two goes better.

That stinks since its like receiving gifts on Christmas Day but only to find the toy damaged when opening. I ordered my BP7002 a while back from Crutchfield and one tower did not power on. Crutchfield took care of my situation immediately and made my mind at ease. Crutchfield has been one of the best customer service experiences I've ever had so Youre in great hands. I was in the same situation as you a few years ago so I can relate to your excited albeit bummer experience. Hope the replacement unit is perfect!
post #27590 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hi Eric, I am sorry to hear that. The good news is that Crutchfield is there for you, as I knew they would be. Let us know how it sounds when you get hooked up. Best, Joe

Yep. Crutchfield rocks!
post #27591 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post


I actually considered that at one point as I could find used CLR2002's for about the same as new Pro Monitor 1000's.  However, the specs are really close so I opted for new 1000's and mounted them mid wall with the DefTech mount.  So far, the 1000's are doing just fine and they blend well across the front soundstage.  The only non-DefTech is the sub, which is an SVS Ultra.  The AVR is a Denon 4520CI with Audyssey MultEQ XT32.  The calibration is really good, so I'm not too tempted to find a replacement for the 1000's yet.

Your rig sound like mine. 7001 l/r with 3000 center. 2 svs ultra. Bpx rear with bpvx sides. Along with 4520. Very happy. Just trying to figure out the 9 and/or11 options.

The reason I asked about the bpx as front height is that I have an extra pair. I picked up the bpvx recently and trying to decide if I should sell.


Thx for the input
post #27592 of 30930
From what I have heard front height speakers should be front radiating pointing directly to the listening area. I personally use SM450s. that being said some users here use BP2X as front height and like them so you may want to try before selling them.
post #27593 of 30930
About to pull the trigger on the 8060ST deal going on right now. Heard them at Magnolia and loved them.

I have a few questions I thought this forum might help answer so I can close on the purchase at Crutchfield

I have a 18x13 media room with Onkyo receiver with 1 SUB out port.

Questions:
1. Should I stick with free 8040 center or go with the 8060 to match even if I can't run a LFE to it?
2. Worth it to upgrade the 8080 surrounds over the 8040s?
3. Since I have one Sub out port what is the best way to run the LFE line to the speakers? Run to 1 side or Y adaptor and run to both L and R 8060s? Or some other config?

This no sub option is very appealing due to limited floor space I just want the best house shaking experience I can get.

Thanks
post #27594 of 30930
Hello fellow Def Tech fans, I am quite sad to say that I have to sell my beloved SM65's and Supercube reference due to some financial... circumstances frown.gif I have threads for both in the classifieds section.
post #27595 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hi HD, let's talk crossovers! Those settings are not necessarily too low. The idea with setting crossover points is that we set up a dividing point, where frequencies above a particular point in the musical spectrum are sent to the satellites and center, and frequencies below that point are handled by the sub or subs. The reasons:
a) we don't want to blow up the mid-range and tweeters with huge low frequency information;
b) on the other hand, we don't want to overload the main speakers with deep bass that they will struggle to reproduce (causing distortion), when we instead have a dedicated speaker - the subwoofer - that is purpose built for this task. Subs have a big power source, plus a driver that is really good at reproducing deep bass;
c) we want a smooth blend between the subwoofer and the rest of the speakers. After all, if we can hear the deep bass blasting away over in the corner, and it seems completely disconnected from the main speakers... that is psychoacoustically ridiculous. When we go see the symphony, or a jazz band at a club, or Deep Purple, we never experience the bass as coming from somewhere else. It's an integrated part of the sound mix. So we always want a seamless blend between the sub and the main speakers, so that we cannot localize the sub. If we set the crossover too high, the sub will start reproducing voices and other parts of the music, and we'll be able to clearly identify where that stuff is coming from - not good. Set it too low, and it won't be able to do all that it should, and the midrange will get messed up by main speaker distortion.
But, since every room is different, and the size of the main speakers vs the size of the subwoofer can vary so widely, it pays dividends to experiment with those settings a little bit, to see what works best in your room. 80 Hz is the de facto starting point, but if you have huge subwoofers and incredibly bass capable main speakers, you will almost always set it lower than 80 Hz - or even run the mains full range. It's also ok to run physically less bass capable main speakers with the crossover up at 100 or even 120, if the mains can't get too low.
You don't want to run the mains full range if you have lesser expensive and / or physically smaller main speakers, such as the ProCinema or SM series speakers.
Having said all that, if it sounds great where Audyssey suggests - good! But don't hesitate to experiment a bit and use your ears.
Audyssey is much smarter than I am in some ways, but I have ears, and Audyssey doesn't. I hope this helps -
Best, Joe
PS Play your favorite CD tonight, OK?

Absolutely LOVE this system. Don't have the room to go 7.1, but even an upgrade from my 14 year old HTIB is enough. Dark Knight Rises really tested it out.
post #27596 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Interesting, so you get decent bass? Is it about the same amount of bass with Audyssey disabled? I have very little bass after running Audyssey. I'll see if I can find some time tomorrow to dig out my RCA cables and run Audyssey again.

Yes. I get plenty of bass -- at least enough for it not to overpower the rest of the system. The dials are about in the 10:30 position for output at about 80 dB -- which is a little above what SubEQ will let you set them at. I measured 103 dB at about 10 feet from each sub cranked all the way up. LOL The bass is a little hotter, about 82 dB, with Audyssey off. Not sure what you are giving your BP7000SC top section, but mine are powered by an Emotiva XPR-5 at 400 watts per channel, all driven.

I do remember Audyssey MultEQ XT did like to take the bass down quite a bit and is probably why I decided to have them run full-range and use the RCA cable. I set the receiver to LFE+ Front L/R and just left the crossover at 40 Hz. You could try removing the bridge from the low/high speaker input, setting crossover to 80 Hz, small speaker size, and use the RCA for LFE. I used to listen to my CD's in 2-channel ( Pure Direct ) and having the bridge in place and the RCA connected worked for me. I now pretty-much listen to all content in some form of Audyssey DSX mode, so I probably should take a look at revisiting different speaker setups myself.
post #27597 of 30930
I have a pair of def tech Sr 8080bp surrounds for sale. They are in the original packaging in perfect condition, they were taken out of the box only to test. I went with an energy rc setup, so they have just been sitting in my closet. What is a fair price to ask for these?
post #27598 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicini View Post

About to pull the trigger on the 8060ST deal going on right now. Heard them at Magnolia and loved them.
I have a few questions I thought this forum might help answer so I can close on the purchase at Crutchfield
I have a 18x13 media room with Onkyo receiver with 1 SUB out port.
Questions:
1. Should I stick with free 8040 center or go with the 8060 to match even if I can't run a LFE to it?
2. Worth it to upgrade the 8080 surrounds over the 8040s?
3. Since I have one Sub out port what is the best way to run the LFE line to the speakers? Run to 1 side or Y adaptor and run to both L and R 8060s? Or some other config?
This no sub option is very appealing due to limited floor space I just want the best house shaking experience I can get.
Thanks

(1) (2) I bought the package and had them for several weeks in a similar sized room. The center and surrounds have been satisfying; I have played almost 10 blu-rays through them so far (concerts + movies). Would the upgrades be better? Of course, but I don't think it's worth the $ and hassle of selling the ones you will get. The cost of upgrading can be better spent elsewhere.

I was in the same position earlier as you and realized that I only considered the upgrades because of the model # and not actual performance. Remember the only difference is the active vs. passive "subwoofer". I don't think having the center channel to play full bandwidth (not that it's even able to) is that beneficial anyway.

(3) I asked that question myself and have received limited responses. But my current understanding is that you don't need to run a LFE to the towers as long as you have them set as LARGE and have no separate subwoofer (if you have a separate subwoofer, no need to play LFE on the towers anyway). Setting the towers as LARGE redirects the LFE to the them. I have seen other threads mentioning that you won't hear a difference from using the LFE line.
post #27599 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDKing View Post

Absolutely LOVE this system. Don't have the room to go 7.1, but even an upgrade from my 14 year old HTIB is enough. Dark Knight Rises really tested it out.
It's great to hear that, HD! Best, Joe
post #27600 of 30930
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post


Your rig sound like mine. 7001 l/r with 3000 center. 2 svs ultra. Bpx rear with bpvx sides. Along with 4520. Very happy. Just trying to figure out the 9 and/or11 options.
The reason I asked about the bpx as front height is that I have an extra pair. I picked up the bpvx recently and trying to decide if I should sell.
Thx for the input


Best bet would be to just try it - of course, if you don't have a direct radiator to compare it to, you won't really know if it makes a significant difference.   Direct radiators are recommended for the Wides/Heights and are supposed to be toed-in or aimed at the main listening position for best effect.  That's what I did and re-ran Audyssey and it all sounds very nice.  The special track for 11.1 channels on Expendables 2 Blu-ray was interesting to use as a test, along with the movie itself, which is "optimized" for 11.1 Neo X. 

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