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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 925

post #27721 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accuphase View Post

Now that I've had the StudioMonitor 65 for a couple of weeks, I can say that these still continue to impress me with their wide open sound. I was worried at first at how bright they sounded, that sibilance would creep in, but they've instead begun to mellow out a little and are very pleasant sounding.
The low bass that they can produce is nothing short of mind-boggling, it's smooth and fat. Even at loud volumes (~90-93db at listening chair), they sound solid and thick and I notice no breakup in soundstage or vocals. Piano is clean and without any ringing whatsoever (although harmonic/modal ringing is generally attributed to room acoustics more than anything when you're using decent speakers). Money For Nothing (Dire Straits) sounds fantastic but the song points out one reality about bookshelves. I've yet to hear a set that can produce the chest pounding mid-bass like a good set of towers.
Because they're bookshelves with a pair of 5 1/4" drivers, they don't have the slam and the mid-bass punch that a tower with larger drivers would. Enabling a sub definitely helps but I've yet to listen to bookshelves (with or without a sub) that have that gut punching mid-bass at high volumes. The Denon 3312 is no slouch but perhaps mating the speakers with something like an Emotiva XPA-5 will give the speakers more authority in the mid-bass.
The mid-range and highs, however, are some of the smoothest I've heard. I keep thinking that Definitive Technology needs to come out with a set of conventional towers (not bi-pole and no built-in powered sub) that combine the SM65 and a cabinet below housing a pair or three 6 1/2" drivers crossed-over for bass.
In the meantime, I can easily say that these have met my expectations for use as mains for both music and HT. They sound great!

Did you by chance audition the 65s and compare them to the 45's or 55s? Just curious on your thoughts.
post #27722 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by likemovies View Post

Can Definitive Technology - ProMonitor 1000 5-1/4" Bookshelf Speakers be used as front speakers in a 2600vol. room? Is that not a good thing? I found them for $300pr. locally.

You could use anything, but those seem expensive. For the same price you should be able to find some 5 1/4" BP8 towers, which, along with being bipolar, should fill the room much better.
post #27723 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post

Did you by chance audition the 65s and compare them to the 45's or 55s? Just curious on your thoughts.

No, I've not listened to either the 45's or the 55's. I've read very good things about the 45's but they would just be too small for my new HT & music mains. I would take the 45's to build a nice 2 channel setup in the computer room or perhaps the dining area.

I also wanted to avoid second thoughts - if I purchased the 55's, I might've wished that I went with the 65's instead.
post #27724 of 30951
Just a quick question guys, bp8 vs sm450??? I have the sm450 but i can get the bp8 on sale just thought if it was worth the upgrade? Also procenter 2000 vs cs-8040? How much better would the new center be considering it is using smaller drivers than the procenter2000? Thanks any help appreciated!
post #27725 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by naturdoc View Post

Thanks for the offer...
I went ahead and pulled the trigger. biggrin.gif I figure for $2000 tax included with warranty I can't go wrong. Worst case scenario I should be able to get most of my investment back if I need to resell them. I'll let you know how it goes. What are you running for a center with them and what have you tried?
thanks

Congrats! I pulled the trigger on the same deal for BP7001s. I am upgrading from BP7002s which I love but I couldn't resist the price and the fact that the 7001/7000 were always my dream speakers. I just had to get them! I honestly do not expect a huge sound upgrade from my 7002s. I have two Outlaw subs so my low end is covered nicely. I'm sure the larger 6.5" drivers will be an improvement at louder volumes. I only have about 12" of space from back wall. Hope that is enough as other have indicated.

My other equipment is a CLR2000 for center and BP2X for rears. I may have to upgrade the rears some day now.

Is a Denon 4310 enough to drive the 7001s?? Anyone have experience?
post #27726 of 30951
I have some personal experience that may be relevant to your question.

In my HT I currently have your old mains, the BP 7002s. I used to drive them with a Denon 3808ci, which has very similar amplification stage as your 4310. Eventually I acquired an NHT Power5 amp, which i connected to the pre-outs of my Denon. The difference was massive. Not only did I get noticeably more sound out of my 7002s, but the detail and clarity was improved too. Now I like the speakers much more for stereo music than I ever did when they were being powered by the Denon.

Bottom line -- the 4310 may be able to drive your 7001s, but I'm confident not to their full potential.
post #27727 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder240 View Post

I have some personal experience that may be relevant to your question.
In my HT I currently have your old mains, the BP 7002s. I used to drive them with a Denon 3808ci, which has very similar amplification stage as your 4310. Eventually I acquired an NHT Power5 amp, which i connected to the pre-outs of my Denon. The difference was massive. Not only did I get noticeably more sound out of my 7002s, but the detail and clarity was improved too. Now I like the speakers much more for stereo music than I ever did when they were being powered by the Denon.
Bottom line -- the 4310 may be able to drive your 7001s, but I'm confident not to their full potential.


Thanks for your feedback. How many watts does your amp put out?

Just looked it up- 200 watts.
Edited by jvmanolis - 12/28/12 at 3:14pm
post #27728 of 30951
200 wpc
post #27729 of 30951
The difference between 130 watts from your receiver and 200 watts from a separate amp would be about a 2 dB difference. You'd be lucky to be an audible difference at max volume.
post #27730 of 30951
First of all, I don't think the Denon gives 130 true watts per channel driving 5 (or 7) channels. I believe it's substantially lower. Second, wattage only tells part of the story. It doesn't tell you how much stored energy is on tap for a sudden explosion or burst of gunfire. Capacitance is also relevant. Third, I'm reacting as much or more to the improvements in clarity and detail from using a separate amp as I am to the extra power.
post #27731 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accuphase View Post

No, I've not listened to either the 45's or the 55's. I've read very good things about the 45's but they would just be too small for my new HT & music mains. I would take the 45's to build a nice 2 channel setup in the computer room or perhaps the dining area.
I also wanted to avoid second thoughts - if I purchased the 55's, I might've wished that I went with the 65's instead.[/quote

I wonder why Definitive didnt make the book shelves to be mounted.... Anyone....Joe ?
post #27732 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

You could use anything, but those seem expensive. For the same price you should be able to find some 5 1/4" BP8 towers, which, along with being bipolar, should fill the room much better.

Yes. Indeed. Looks like Newegg is blowing out the BP8B's for $200 a piece.
post #27733 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvmanolis View Post

Congrats! I pulled the trigger on the same deal for BP7001s. I am upgrading from BP7002s which I love but I couldn't resist the price and the fact that the 7001/7000 were always my dream speakers. I just had to get them! I honestly do not expect a huge sound upgrade from my 7002s. I have two Outlaw subs so my low end is covered nicely. I'm sure the larger 6.5" drivers will be an improvement at louder volumes. I only have about 12" of space from back wall. Hope that is enough as other have indicated.
My other equipment is a CLR2000 for center and BP2X for rears. I may have to upgrade the rears some day now.
Is a Denon 4310 enough to drive the 7001s?? Anyone have experience?

Here are the HT Lab test results for Denon AVR-4310ci with 5 and 7 channels driven.
Quote:
Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 113.8 watts
1% distortion at 131.0 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 104.6 watts
1% distortion at 116.6 watts

That really isn't that bad. Good thing is it will be relatively simple to add an external amp to your 4310. I think you will be fine at normal listening levels but there isn't much headroom there. You could easily add an Emotiva XPA-3 ( 200w x 3 ) or XPA-5 ( 200w x 5 ) if/when you add more speakers/zones. I had to take mine to 400w x 5 to hear a big difference but I was coming from 142w x 7.
post #27734 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvmanolis View Post

Congrats! I pulled the trigger on the same deal for BP7001s. I am upgrading from BP7002s which I love but I couldn't resist the price and the fact that the 7001/7000 were always my dream speakers. I just had to get them! I honestly do not expect a huge sound upgrade from my 7002s. I have two Outlaw subs so my low end is covered nicely. I'm sure the larger 6.5" drivers will be an improvement at louder volumes. I only have about 12" of space from back wall. Hope that is enough as other have indicated.
My other equipment is a CLR2000 for center and BP2X for rears. I may have to upgrade the rears some day now.
Is a Denon 4310 enough to drive the 7001s?? Anyone have experience?

I am driving BP2000's with a 4311 and have never run into an issue with needing more power. Upgrade your surrounds or your subs before you do an amp... Def Techs are easy to drive and unless you plan at listening at reference or above you'll see more benefit from the aforementioned upgrades.
post #27735 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by likemovies View Post

Can Definitive Technology - ProMonitor 1000 5-1/4" Bookshelf Speakers be used as front speakers in a 2600vol. room? Is that not a good thing? I found them for $300pr. locally.

I'd personally recommend the SM45 over the 1000 for sound.
post #27736 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accuphase View Post

Now that I've had the StudioMonitor 65 for a couple of weeks, I can say that these still continue to impress me with their wide open sound. I was worried at first at how bright they sounded, that sibilance would creep in, but they've instead begun to mellow out a little and are very pleasant sounding.
The low bass that they can produce is nothing short of mind-boggling, it's smooth and fat. Even at loud volumes (~90-93db at listening chair), they sound solid and thick and I notice no breakup in soundstage or vocals. Piano is clean and without any ringing whatsoever (although harmonic/modal ringing is generally attributed to room acoustics more than anything when you're using decent speakers). Money For Nothing (Dire Straits) sounds fantastic but the song points out one reality about bookshelves. I've yet to hear a set that can produce the chest pounding mid-bass like a good set of towers.
Because they're bookshelves with a pair of 5 1/4" drivers, they don't have the slam and the mid-bass punch that a tower with larger drivers would. Enabling a sub definitely helps but I've yet to listen to bookshelves (with or without a sub) that have that gut punching mid-bass at high volumes. The Denon 3312 is no slouch but perhaps mating the speakers with something like an Emotiva XPA-5 will give the speakers more authority in the mid-bass.
The mid-range and highs, however, are some of the smoothest I've heard. I keep thinking that Definitive Technology needs to come out with a set of conventional towers (not bi-pole and no built-in powered sub) that combine the SM65 and a cabinet below housing a pair or three 6 1/2" drivers crossed-over for bass.
In the meantime, I can easily say that these have met my expectations for use as mains for both music and HT. They sound great!

I appreciated your post here (and others who chimed in on the Studio 65 Monitors). I do have some thoughts and questions and hope you are willing to comment in response.

It seems to me that the dimensions of the speaker box and the use of two 5 1/4" speakers puts it in a class of being akin to a tower sans the lower end. In your estimates would a powered center such as the 8060 be sufficient or better to go with a more traditional sub set up? I notice that some of the Def Tech towers are smaller speakers with added bass. I wonder how they compare.

My concern is that I am using a rather low wattage system and wonder if indeed it is sufficient to drive a pair of these plus a center speaker. I have a Marantz 1602 (50 per channel conservative rating). Seems from what you are saying, I would be under powering these speakers with my AVR... - is this correct?

I admit that the AON 3 seems from all reviews is impressive but the lack of a similar center speaker is a downer. Sandy G explains why the GE centers have not much ado about lower end and bass but if one pays attention, he is saying it is about the mid and the highs only and to pick up the rest of the sound with other speaker(s) that have a sub. Three AON 3 speakers would be great for front but alas, it is a tall speaker and also not rectangular (truncated pyramid).

Any thoughts you could provide would be helpful. I am rebuilding a media set up around the main items - VT50 Panasonic Plasma, Marantz 1602 with addition of a blu ray player and TiVo. I pulled out of storage my old surround system - Energy e:XL bookshelf speakers and center (16's and 15's) and hooked up only the 16's and center to the front. I want to retire these speakers along with an old Klipsch 10" sub. (Maybe sell them on line to someone who wants something above a satellite system as they are pretty decent for HT use but mediocre at best for music).


I watch TV/TiVo 40 percent, Music 40 percent and blu ray movies 20 percent.
Thanks for any input you can provide.
post #27737 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accuphase View Post

I keep thinking that Definitive Technology needs to come out with a set of conventional towers (not bi-pole and no built-in powered sub) that combine the SM65 and a cabinet below housing a pair or three 6 1/2" drivers crossed-over for bass.
They sound great!
you could stack three sm450s one on top of another.
post #27738 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrehdd View Post

I appreciated your post here (and others who chimed in on the Studio 65 Monitors). I do have some thoughts and questions and hope you are willing to comment in response.
It seems to me that the dimensions of the speaker box and the use of two 5 1/4" speakers puts it in a class of being akin to a tower sans the lower end. In your estimates would a powered center such as the 8060 be sufficient or better to go with a more traditional sub set up? I notice that some of the Def Tech towers are smaller speakers with added bass. I wonder how they compare.
My concern is that I am using a rather low wattage system and wonder if indeed it is sufficient to drive a pair of these plus a center speaker. I have a Marantz 1602 (50 per channel conservative rating). Seems from what you are saying, I would be under powering these speakers with my AVR... - is this correct?
I admit that the AON 3 seems from all reviews is impressive but the lack of a similar center speaker is a downer. Sandy G explains why the GE centers have not much ado about lower end and bass but if one pays attention, he is saying it is about the mid and the highs only and to pick up the rest of the sound with other speaker(s) that have a sub. Three AON 3 speakers would be great for front but alas, it is a tall speaker and also not rectangular (truncated pyramid).
Any thoughts you could provide would be helpful. I am rebuilding a media set up around the main items - VT50 Panasonic Plasma, Marantz 1602 with addition of a blu ray player and TiVo. I pulled out of storage my old surround system - Energy e:XL bookshelf speakers and center (16's and 15's) and hooked up only the 16's and center to the front. I want to retire these speakers along with an old Klipsch 10" sub. (Maybe sell them on line to someone who wants something above a satellite system as they are pretty decent for HT use but mediocre at best for music).
I watch TV/TiVo 40 percent, Music 40 percent and blu ray movies 20 percent.
Thanks for any input you can provide.

I'm in a similar boat of trying to decide whether to 'upgrade' to a powered center or to keep the Mythos Ten as the center channel. On the Mythos Ten, dialog and vocals (in 5.1 from Palladia TV) is clear and Saruman's Voice in Lord of the Rings has a nice gravelly sound. I can't comment on how a powered center channel would compare since I haven't heard either the 8060 or the 8080 yet. But I can assume the 8080 would be a better match for the SM65 since they both use the same pair of 5 1/4" drivers. The SM65's are huge for bookshelves, at least in how deep they are. They look silly on stands, to be honest. I've got it centered based on the front baffle being heavier than the rear - so the front of the speaker hangs about 3" from the front edge of my stand while the rear of the speaker hangs out almost 6".

For you, 8060 would be a match depending on which mains you go with, how loud you like to listen to your sources... for a smaller room (less than 15x15x8) powered by a nice 50W Marantz, the 8060 could be used with SM65 since I see no reason why your Marantz couldn't drive the 8060 and 65's to uncomfortably loud levels with similar timber. They both share the same sensitivity and range specs (for what's it worth...). Theoretically, you should be able to hit 95db from 10ft away with 50W of power, per channel, per speaker. One thing to remember, using similar drivers only takes you so far.. if the center speaker is tucked inside an enclosed TV cabinet, the sound will be considerably different than if the center was placed on it's own speaker stand. BTW, that Marantz does come with a pair of line outs so you could connect a more powerful amp to drive the front L/R speakers if that's something you'd like to experiment with.
post #27739 of 30951
I really want to get the bp8s but im not sure if they are a huge upgrade from my sm450s. Anybody has advice? Thanks
post #27740 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accuphase View Post

I'm in a similar boat of trying to decide whether to 'upgrade' to a powered center or to keep the Mythos Ten as the center channel. On the Mythos Ten, dialog and vocals (in 5.1 from Palladia TV) is clear and Saruman's Voice in Lord of the Rings has a nice gravelly sound. I can't comment on how a powered center channel would compare since I haven't heard either the 8060 or the 8080 yet. But I can assume the 8080 would be a better match for the SM65 since they both use the same pair of 5 1/4" drivers. The SM65's are huge for bookshelves, at least in how deep they are. They look silly on stands, to be honest. I've got it centered based on the front baffle being heavier than the rear - so the front of the speaker hangs about 3" from the front edge of my stand while the rear of the speaker hangs out almost 6".
For you, 8060 would be a match depending on which mains you go with, how loud you like to listen to your sources... for a smaller room (less than 15x15x8) powered by a nice 50W Marantz, the 8060 could be used with SM65 since I see no reason why your Marantz couldn't drive the 8060 and 65's to uncomfortably loud levels with similar timber. They both share the same sensitivity and range specs (for what's it worth...). Theoretically, you should be able to hit 95db from 10ft away with 50W of power, per channel, per speaker. One thing to remember, using similar drivers only takes you so far.. if the center speaker is tucked inside an enclosed TV cabinet, the sound will be considerably different than if the center was placed on it's own speaker stand. BTW, that Marantz does come with a pair of line outs so you could connect a more powerful amp to drive the front L/R speakers if that's something you'd like to experiment with.

Very good advice, especially on cabinet. You need a couple of inches of breathing room for powered sub to do its thing if you decide to go with this option. Theoretically, a center with a powered sub will be more efficient and less taxing on your receiver since sub amp is doing the heavy lifting for your amp. Since you are using 50 watts i would think the powered sub would really help. I have had both mythos 10 and 8080hd centers and the 8080hd is a considerable upgrade. Saruman will sound as if he is in a theater with 8080!
post #27741 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

I'd personally recommend the SM45 over the 1000 for sound.

I second this. For having the same drivers the 1000's sound nothing like the SM45. It seems obvious to me that the 1000s were built for their size and ease of placement whereas the SM series was designed for sound quality first and looks second which is what I prefer any day of the week.
post #27742 of 30951

I've got BP7002's for Front L/R in an all DefTech 11.2 (SVS sub) speaker setup through a Denon AVR-4520CI.  Currently, I am using ProMon 1000's as Wides in an attempt to match the 5.25" drivers in the towers.  I'm thinking of moving the 1000's to the Heights and getting a pair of Studio Monitor 65's for the Wides.  Any thoughts on whether this is a worthwhile improvement over the 1000's for mating with the 7002's and CLR 2500 Center?  This is a mostly movie setup in a very large room.  I was simply thinking the dual 5.25" drivers and better bass might be a better choice for the Wides than the 1000's, though I can't say I'm unhappy with them.  The only caveat is that I want to keep them (wides) as Direct Radiators, not bipoles.

post #27743 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

I've got BP7002's for Front L/R in an all DefTech 11.2 (SVS sub) speaker setup through a Denon AVR-4520CI.  Currently, I am using ProMon 1000's as Wides in an attempt to match the 5.25" drivers in the towers.  I'm thinking of moving the 1000's to the Heights and getting a pair of Studio Monitor 65's for the Wides.  Any thoughts on whether this is a worthwhile improvement over the 1000's for mating with the 7002's and CLR 2500 Center?  This is a mostly movie setup in a very large room.  I was simply thinking the dual 5.25" drivers and better bass might be a better choice for the Wides than the 1000's, though I can't say I'm unhappy with them.  The only caveat is that I want to keep them (wides) as Direct Radiators, not bipoles.
Buy bp7000s and move 7002 to wides:D
post #27744 of 30951
Need help with a center guys. I own the StudioMonitor45s. No sub. I am getting a center and it will have to sit on the mantle. I was considering the ProCenter2000 because it has the same driver size. I went to hear the PC2000 but also heard the mythos7 and was more impressed with it. Just wondering if I would be making a bad decision going with the mythos?
post #27745 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollie83 View Post

Just a quick question guys, bp8 vs sm450??? I have the sm450 but i can get the bp8 on sale just thought if it was worth the upgrade? Also procenter 2000 vs cs-8040? How much better would the new center be considering it is using smaller drivers than the procenter2000? Thanks any help appreciated!

I just got the BP8Bs from Newegg (should arrive 1/4). Earlier in this thread I was advised the matching center is the C/L/R 2002. I called DefTech and they concurred that the C/L/R 2002 is the "best" match for the BP8Bs. I was able to pick up a CLR2002 from bajawaverunner on ebay ($285). He may still have some.

That said, the CS-8040 is what Def Tech has listed as the recommended (currently shipping) center for the BP8Bs.

Hope this helps.
post #27746 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

I've got BP7002's for Front L/R in an all DefTech 11.2 (SVS sub) speaker setup through a Denon AVR-4520CI.  Currently, I am using ProMon 1000's as Wides in an attempt to match the 5.25" drivers in the towers.  I'm thinking of moving the 1000's to the Heights and getting a pair of Studio Monitor 65's for the Wides.  Any thoughts on whether this is a worthwhile improvement over the 1000's for mating with the 7002's and CLR 2500 Center?  This is a mostly movie setup in a very large room.  I was simply thinking the dual 5.25" drivers and better bass might be a better choice for the Wides than the 1000's, though I can't say I'm unhappy with them.  The only caveat is that I want to keep them (wides) as Direct Radiators, not bipoles.


Flint, it is highly recommend that if you are going to use wides, you should try and match them as closly to the mains (L+R) as you possibly can, and preferably they should be the exact same model. If I were in your shoes, I would look for a pair of BP-8b's as I believe that they have the necessary 5&1/4 inch mids and the same tweeter as the BP-7002. Another big upgrade would be to go with a better center. Most people continually harp on how the LCR's should all be matched in terms of drivers, and while this is generally true, the Def Techs are all voiced the same, and I highly doubt that the differences between the C/L/R-2000 and the C/L/R-2500 would be negative. I would look for a used pair of BP-8b's and a used C/L/R-2000.
post #27747 of 30951

Thanks for the suggestions.  The only downside to them is that they are bipoles and Wides, while recommended to closely match the fronts, are also strongly recommended to be Direct Radiators - not bipoles.  I think the direct radiator is more important for the effect than an exact match of bipoles which may diffuse the sound too much.  I'm not unhappy with my current setup, just thinking about improvements (as always).  It would be nice to be able to do a comparison in-room, but that is difficult to arrange obviously.  I'll keep looking into it and thanks again for the suggestions.

post #27748 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post

I second this. For having the same drivers the 1000's sound nothing like the SM45. It seems obvious to me that the 1000s were built for their size and ease of placement whereas the SM series was designed for sound quality first and looks second which is what I prefer any day of the week.

It might be the same size driver, but it's not the same driver. The new drivers have the larger phase plugs. I'll take the SQ as well smile.gif After more listening the other day, I did notice that the BP8060's are a little more forward in the mid- lower mids then the SM45. Both sounded great, so I guess it's down to preference. I'd love to compair the SM45, SM55, and SM65 all on stands cool.gif I'd love to compare the BP8080 to the BP8060's again too since I don't think something was right the first time I've heard the BP8080's.

Joe, do yo have any thoughts on the difference in sound between the BP8060's and the BP8080's?
Edited by truwarrior22 - 12/30/12 at 9:09am
post #27749 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

Thanks for the suggestions.  The only downside to them is that they are bipoles and Wides, while recommended to closely match the fronts, are also strongly recommended to be Direct Radiators - not bipoles.  I think the direct radiator is more important for the effect than an exact match of bipoles which may diffuse the sound too much.  I'm not unhappy with my current setup, just thinking about improvements (as always).  It would be nice to be able to do a comparison in-room, but that is difficult to arrange obviously.  I'll keep looking into it and thanks again for the suggestions.

I'm n the same boat. Trying to decide if the SM65s would be good wides to my 7001s.
post #27750 of 30951
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post

I'm n the same boat. Trying to decide if the SM65s would be good wides to my 7001s.

SM65s dont' really match in any way except being the same brand, I don't think. They use 5 1/4" mids that are a different style and a different tweeter. I would guess that the SM450s would be a much better match with the same size and style of drivers, and they'd be much cheaper.
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