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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 926

post #27751 of 29423
12/30/12 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollie83 View Post

I really want to get the bp8s but im not sure if they are a huge upgrade from my sm450s. Anybody has advice? Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

SM65s dont' really match in any way except being the same brand, I don't think. They use 5 1/4" mids that are a different style and a different tweeter. I would guess that the SM450s would be a much better match with the same size and style of drivers, and they'd be much cheaper.

at one time i had 450's for back surround duty and 7001's up front...

one bad weather weekend, on a whim, i moved the 450's up front, set each one atop a trinity and crossed them at 80hz...

they did not equal the soundstage thrown by the 7001's but i tell ya they sounded outstanding! i've not heard deftechs new line of monitors, but in my experience the 450's were the best bang for the buck speaker made by deftech...
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #27752 of 29423
12/30/12 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

Thanks for the suggestions.  The only downside to them is that they are bipoles and Wides, while recommended to closely match the fronts, are also strongly recommended to be Direct Radiators - not bipoles.  I think the direct radiator is more important for the effect than an exact match of bipoles which may diffuse the sound too much.  I'm not unhappy with my current setup, just thinking about improvements (as always).  It would be nice to be able to do a comparison in-room, but that is difficult to arrange obviously.  I'll keep looking into it and thanks again for the suggestions.

I believe the Studio Monitor 350's use the same drivers. Those would be a closer match than the newer studio monitors.
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post #27753 of 29423
12/30/12 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

It might be the same size driver, but it's not the same driver. The new drivers have the larger phase plugs. I'll take the SQ as well smile.gif After more listening the other day, I did notice that the BP8060's are a little more forward in the mid- lower mids then the SM45. Both sounded great, so I guess it's down to preference. I'd love to compair the SM45, SM55, and SM65 all on stands cool.gif I'd love to compare the BP8080 to the BP8060's again too since I don't think something was right the first time I've heard the BP8080's.
Joe, do yo have any thoughts on the difference in sound between the BP8060's and the BP8080's?

I am sure the studio monitors are fantastic for bookshelf speakers, but the towers should technically outperform them. First, because they are towers, they have larger cabinets which give them more air to move and allow the drivers to perform at a higher level. Secondly, the built in subs handle the low end, allowing the drivers do what they do best......handle the midrange. The passive radiators in the SM's will help, but there are limitations. The built in subs in the towers effectively put less stress on the drivers. It will allow the towers to play lower in a more accurate fashion and also be easier to blend with a stand alone sub in terms of having a flexible crossover - giving your speaker a bit of breathing room. (I even cross my BP7000's at 60 because I have high performing/qualtiy stand alone subs-but could obviously run them "large" if I wanted to) Finally, you have an extra driver on the rear of the towers which provides a much wider and deeper soundstage than a direct firing bookshelf monitor. This is not a knock against the SM series as they have been very well reviewed and are no doubt fantastic as for a monitor type speaker, but they should not perform as well as the towers for the reason I previously stated.

I have auditioned the 8060's and they did sound very nice. But again, the 8080's will outperform them due to physics. Larger drivers, bigger sub, bigger sub amp, larger cabinet. Also, it has been my experience with Definitive that the larger the mid-range drivers, the sweeter the mid-range and vocals sound. A lot of this is just physics, and the physical limitation of size. Size of woofers, size of drivers, size of cabinets, and size of amps. The magic with definitive is that they put high quality, high performing materials in very small, attractive cabinets and are able to obtain results that are just awesome. But size can have limitations. That's ok though because rooms and wives and budgets have limitations too, so sometimes its ok to go with the smaller or mid-level more attractive speakers. Now there is a reason you may prefer the SM series more than the towers.......you may prefer direct radiating speakers more. This is not unusual. If this is the case, and you prefer direct radiating speakers (and $ is not an issue), then PLEASE audition the Mythos ST's. They are absolutely stunning.

If the 8080's did not sound as good as the 8060's in an a/b comparison, it could have very well been that they were not setup properly. Placement is very key with BP speakers. Also, in many stores, the sales people are careless with the sub volume controls and they can be out of whack. If it's possilbe, go back and take your time with your own source material and make sure everything is setup properly. But still, it's very difficult until you get them in your own room to hear the final product. In all honesty, I never heard the BP7000's live until they were in my basement, but I had heard the 3000's, 7002's, 7004's, 7006's, etc and knew what they should have been capable of and of course they have surpassed all of my expectations. If you work with a good dealer, they should let you return a speaker that does not work in your room.

In the end, your bound to be happy. All of these speakers are great. In some cases we are just splitting hairs.....but that's the fun of this hobby.

Hope this helps....I am sure Joe will have much to add....
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post #27754 of 29423
12/30/12 at 9:08pm
Low-profile speaker mounting options?

Hello,

I hope this is the correct board for such a question, if not please let me know.

I've got the ProCinema 600 System and I'm deciding how to mount the front L/R speakers. I have a media console base with a media panel which I've mounted an LED TV to (like this: http://www.ethanallen.com/product?productId=6291&categoryId=8022 ).

I have the ProMount 90, and if the speakers are mounted on the front surface of the media panel then the speakers stick out much farther than the TV and it doesn't look good, because the LED is so thin. The alternative is to mount the speakers on the side surfaces of the media panel (it is about 3" thick), and bend them 90 degrees so they face the correct way, which makes them more or less flush with the TV, although it will make the media panel look like it has "ears"!

The only other alternative I can think of is to drill a 4" bolt from the back of the media panel all the way through, and mount the speaker directly onto this bolt. It would not be articulating like the ProMount 90, but would be flush and a clean look. I'm leaning toward this, unless there is something wrong with this idea that I am overlooking.

Thanks for any suggestions.
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post #27755 of 29423
12/30/12 at 10:14pm
If the media console is located against a wall, I'd look at mounting them on the wall with the ProMount or use some stands to place them on beside the console. Looks like you'd have a rather small sound stage with the L/R mounted on the console.
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post #27756 of 29423
12/30/12 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grinny View Post

Low-profile speaker mounting options?
Hello,
I hope this is the correct board for such a question, if not please let me know.
I've got the ProCinema 600 System and I'm deciding how to mount the front L/R speakers. I have a media console base with a media panel which I've mounted an LED TV to (like this: http://www.ethanallen.com/product?productId=6291&categoryId=8022 ).
I have the ProMount 90, and if the speakers are mounted on the front surface of the media panel then the speakers stick out much farther than the TV and it doesn't look good, because the LED is so thin. The alternative is to mount the speakers on the side surfaces of the media panel (it is about 3" thick), and bend them 90 degrees so they face the correct way, which makes them more or less flush with the TV, although it will make the media panel look like it has "ears"!
The only other alternative I can think of is to drill a 4" bolt from the back of the media panel all the way through, and mount the speaker directly onto this bolt. It would not be articulating like the ProMount 90, but would be flush and a clean look. I'm leaning toward this, unless there is something wrong with this idea that I am overlooking.
Thanks for any suggestions.

I don't think you will get proper imaging if you mount your left and right speakers so close together -- unless you are sitting 3 1/2 to 5 feet away from your TV. You can calculate the proper placement of your front speakers from each other pretty easily since you know that the front speakers should be placed ±22° to ±30° from the centerline of your seating position. All you have to do is measure the distance between your seating position and the center of your TV.

You can use this calculator. It will give you the length of the opposite side of a right triangle with variable angles of the opposite and adjacent angles.

http://easycalculation.com/trigonometry/triangle-angles.php

Use it by selecting Opposite Side and Hypotenuse Side in the " I want to calculate " fields. Enter the measured distance from your seating position to your TV in the " Adjacent Side " field. Enter a number from 22 to 30 in the " Angle q " field. The Angle b field will automatically be filled in when you click " Calculate. " The " Opposite Side " number will represent the distance from the center of your TV to the center of your left or right speaker cone. Double this number to get the total distance between the left and right speakers.

The surround speaker placement is done in a similar manner but the distance from your ears to the tweeter cone isn't as critical. Dolby recommends ±90° to ±110° from the centerline, meaning perpendicular to your ears to slightly in back of your ears, for your surround speakers. The surround back speakers are ±135° to ±150° from centerline with an optimal distance of about 48 inches to 72 inches from each other depending on room size and placement angles. All speakers should be, more or less, angled towards your seating position. The ProMount 90 would be good to use for the front and/or surrounds if you wish to follow proper speaker placement since they can be easily adjusted to increase the size of the " sound bubble. "
Edited by jevans64 - 12/30/12 at 10:57pm
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post #27757 of 29423
12/31/12 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thSeal View Post

If the media console is located against a wall, I'd look at mounting them on the wall with the ProMount or use some stands to place them on beside the console. Looks like you'd have a rather small sound stage with the L/R mounted on the console.

No, it's not against the wall. Stands aren't really an option as another main restraint is the need to keep it away from a curious toddler who loves to knock things down! smile.gif
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post #27758 of 29423
12/31/12 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

I don't think you will get proper imaging if you mount your left and right speakers so close together -- unless you are sitting 3 1/2 to 5 feet away from your TV. You can calculate the proper placement of your front speakers from each other pretty easily since you know that the front speakers should be placed ±22° to ±30° from the centerline of your seating position. All you have to do is measure the distance between your seating position and the center of your TV.
You can use this calculator. It will give you the length of the opposite side of a right triangle with variable angles of the opposite and adjacent angles.
http://easycalculation.com/trigonometry/triangle-angles.php
Use it by selecting Opposite Side and Hypotenuse Side in the " I want to calculate " fields. Enter the measured distance from your seating position to your TV in the " Adjacent Side " field. Enter a number from 22 to 30 in the " Angle q " field. The Angle b field will automatically be filled in when you click " Calculate. " The " Opposite Side " number will represent the distance from the center of your TV to the center of your left or right speaker cone. Double this number to get the total distance between the left and right speakers.
The surround speaker placement is done in a similar manner but the distance from your ears to the tweeter cone isn't as critical. Dolby recommends ±90° to ±110° from the centerline, meaning perpendicular to your ears to slightly in back of your ears, for your surround speakers. The surround back speakers are ±135° to ±150° from centerline with an optimal distance of about 48 inches to 72 inches from each other depending on room size and placement angles. All speakers should be, more or less, angled towards your seating position. The ProMount 90 would be good to use for the front and/or surrounds if you wish to follow proper speaker placement since they can be easily adjusted to increase the size of the " sound bubble. "

Very cool info, thanks. Unfortunately for me, the calculator asks for >120" between L/R for my main viewing distance of 12', but the media console is only 60" wide. Given the room I have there isn't much flexibility. That said, the sound seems great to me, and better than what I had before. But I will keep this in mind the next time I buy a living room! smile.gif
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post #27759 of 29423
12/31/12 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grinny View Post

Very cool info, thanks. Unfortunately for me, the calculator asks for >120" between L/R for my main viewing distance of 12', but the media console is only 60" wide. Given the room I have there isn't much flexibility. That said, the sound seems great to me, and better than what I had before. But I will keep this in mind the next time I buy a living room! smile.gif

If you are married, you probably don't have the flexibility, but 12' away is a LONG way away from a normal sized HDTV. Of course the difference between a media room and a living room is that the living room is designed primarily for LIVING while the media room is designed primarily for media viewing/listening. It is all a balancing act between screen size, speaker placement, and seating distance - and unless you have a dedicated room it is next to impossible to get it all 'right'. In my media room, everything is pretty close to 'right' as I can make it (but still needs more work). In my living room, it is all wrong, but I do the best I can with what I have to work around (including the wife's input).

And yes, wrong with good speakers is preferable to wrong with lousy speakers.
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post #27760 of 29423
12/31/12 at 9:04am
My seating area is 12' away and I have my L/R spaced at 118". The back wall is 5' behind seating and provides a good place to mark a spot on the wall directly behind centered seating. I line the tweeters of L/R up with this mark as a starting point and it gets me very close to desired angle of L/R turned inward. Surrounds at 90 degree 1ft above ear level and surround rears at 135 degrees at 3ft above ear level, angled and tilted as desired.

Speaker stands or floorspeakers provides a lot of flexibility for positioning L/R but yeah toddlers and speaker stands don't really mix well. biggrin.gif
Edited by 7thSeal - 12/31/12 at 9:15am
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post #27761 of 29423
12/31/12 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

I am sure the studio monitors are fantastic for bookshelf speakers, but the towers should technically outperform them. First, because they are towers, they have larger cabinets which give them more air to move and allow the drivers to perform at a higher level. Secondly, the built in subs handle the low end, allowing the drivers do what they do best......handle the midrange. The passive radiators in the SM's will help, but there are limitations. The built in subs in the towers effectively put less stress on the drivers. It will allow the towers to play lower in a more accurate fashion and also be easier to blend with a stand alone sub in terms of having a flexible crossover - giving your speaker a bit of breathing room. (I even cross my BP7000's at 60 because I have high performing/qualtiy stand alone subs-but could obviously run them "large" if I wanted to) Finally, you have an extra driver on the rear of the towers which provides a much wider and deeper soundstage than a direct firing bookshelf monitor. This is not a knock against the SM series as they have been very well reviewed and are no doubt fantastic as for a monitor type speaker, but they should not perform as well as the towers for the reason I previously stated.
I have auditioned the 8060's and they did sound very nice. But again, the 8080's will outperform them due to physics. Larger drivers, bigger sub, bigger sub amp, larger cabinet. Also, it has been my experience with Definitive that the larger the mid-range drivers, the sweeter the mid-range and vocals sound. A lot of this is just physics, and the physical limitation of size. Size of woofers, size of drivers, size of cabinets, and size of amps. The magic with definitive is that they put high quality, high performing materials in very small, attractive cabinets and are able to obtain results that are just awesome. But size can have limitations. That's ok though because rooms and wives and budgets have limitations too, so sometimes its ok to go with the smaller or mid-level more attractive speakers. Now there is a reason you may prefer the SM series more than the towers.......you may prefer direct radiating speakers more. This is not unusual. If this is the case, and you prefer direct radiating speakers (and $ is not an issue), then PLEASE audition the Mythos ST's. They are absolutely stunning.
If the 8080's did not sound as good as the 8060's in an a/b comparison, it could have very well been that they were not setup properly. Placement is very key with BP speakers. Also, in many stores, the sales people are careless with the sub volume controls and they can be out of whack. If it's possilbe, go back and take your time with your own source material and make sure everything is setup properly. But still, it's very difficult until you get them in your own room to hear the final product. In all honesty, I never heard the BP7000's live until they were in my basement, but I had heard the 3000's, 7002's, 7004's, 7006's, etc and knew what they should have been capable of and of course they have surpassed all of my expectations. If you work with a good dealer, they should let you return a speaker that does not work in your room.
In the end, your bound to be happy. All of these speakers are great. In some cases we are just splitting hairs.....but that's the fun of this hobby.
Hope this helps....I am sure Joe will have much to add....

Yosh that was rather an interesting and thoughtful comment on your part. I do have some thoughts and welcome a response -

Many folks feel that the best place for a sub may not be exactly where the front left and right speakers are located. Given this, what really is better - all in one like the 8060/8080 or say sub with a pair of studio monitors?

Internal capacity of a speaker box - The Studio 65 is a rather large box and and the 8060 is tall and narrow. Is there that much difference in the internal volume of air to move? Are the speakers in the towers given internal boxes (encapsulated) to reside in and what are those volumes? Seems that a Studio 65 plus external sub might be of similar air volumes to an 8060. - Your thoughts?

You mention speaker drivers et cetera - Studio 65 speaker drivers are larger than the 8060 (sans woofer) - your thoughts again.

Hopefully, you understand I am going with what you have mentioned which has a good logic to it but admittedly I see where you favour the towers over the Studio speakers.
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post #27762 of 29423
12/31/12 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

I am sure the studio monitors are fantastic for bookshelf speakers, but the towers should technically outperform them. First, because they are towers, they have larger cabinets which give them more air to move and allow the drivers to perform at a higher level. Secondly, the built in subs handle the low end, allowing the drivers do what they do best......handle the midrange. The passive radiators in the SM's will help, but there are limitations. The built in subs in the towers effectively put less stress on the drivers. It will allow the towers to play lower in a more accurate fashion and also be easier to blend with a stand alone sub in terms of having a flexible crossover - giving your speaker a bit of breathing room. (I even cross my BP7000's at 60 because I have high performing/qualtiy stand alone subs-but could obviously run them "large" if I wanted to) Finally, you have an extra driver on the rear of the towers which provides a much wider and deeper soundstage than a direct firing bookshelf monitor. This is not a knock against the SM series as they have been very well reviewed and are no doubt fantastic as for a monitor type speaker, but they should not perform as well as the towers for the reason I previously stated.

I wouldn't be so sure, of course the bigger towers will move more air and have more bass, and if you're trying to get by without a sub they may be the best option for you. BUT I listened to the SM45s and compared them to the 8040 and 8060 towers (and everything else in the Magnolia room at best buy) with an 80hz crossover and these little speakers sounded better than anything in the room. Of course they don't have earth shattering bass but for people who are just looking for awesome sound without any boominess, resonations or coloration to the sound they are amazing. Most people use a powered subwoofer with their systems regardless of having towers or bookshelfs so to me the extra bass doesn't matter even though the SM45 puts out surprising bass for their size, the SM65 supposedly put a ridiculous amount of bass out for their size but I have yet to hear them.

But anyway I hear your point about physics and all that but I think it's better to just listen to them and let your ears decide, if you're into a ton of bass you may prefer the towers but if you listen to anything but rap or hip hop I think you'll be very surprised by the SM series.
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post #27763 of 29423
12/31/12 at 3:09pm
I am currently waiting on a pair 8060s, back ordered. Got the bundle with the 8040 center and surrounds. I already own a ProSub 1000 so I plan on running the 8060s as a full range speaker. I was wondering if someone could recommend a setting for the powered woofer that would closely approximate a flat setting for the speaker. Basically a starting point before I run Audyssey on my Denon AVR. Thanks.
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post #27764 of 29423
12/31/12 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrehdd View Post

Yosh that was rather an interesting and thoughtful comment on your part. I do have some thoughts and welcome a response -
Many folks feel that the best place for a sub may not be exactly where the front left and right speakers are located. Given this, what really is better - all in one like the 8060/8080 or say sub with a pair of studio monitors?

What's 'better' is a full size speaker WITHOUT the sub built in, like my BP30s. I'm sorry to say, but the current Def-Tech lineup just doesn't have anything I would want in my media room - but I LOVE my 'old school' Def Tech setup.
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post #27765 of 29423
12/31/12 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartMan01 View Post

What's 'better' is a full size speaker WITHOUT the sub built in, like my BP30s. I'm sorry to say, but the current Def-Tech lineup just doesn't have anything I would want in my media room - but I LOVE my 'old school' Def Tech setup.

Bart, that was a fair and honest answer.

Sometimes I wonder about the physics or rather dynamics of some speaker enclosures. I have seen tall narrow and shallow speakers, shorter more cube like speakers and all have their own sound pros and weaknesses.

Sadly, the last time I really dealt with any speakers in a more than passing fashion was in the late 70's and early 80's. Things have changed quite a bit given that at that time no one would have given serious consideration to speakers that have a midrange driver at 4-5 inches. Today we see plenty and even as some call Bass coming out of those smaller drivers. We also see superior materials used today that afford those smaller drivers/cones etc the ability to really move air in a superior fashion to days of yore.

As for my comments about tower internal air vs the Studio 65 -





Tweeters - probably similar in output.
High, medium and low mids - might have to consider the monitor to be as good or better given air volume and being larger than the tower's offering
Bass - hard to discern given that many today seem to blend/mix/confuse with sub sonics. However, I would say one needs more likely to listen to know which is better between the two.

Sub - this is the crux of it all. Does the tower provide not only a decent sub but the location of the sub work for most set ups. With either the tower or the monitor, one can easily add 1-2 sub separates.

If any of the above is not accurate, I am open to correction. Again, it has been several years for me and yes, I was one of those youths that did build some speakers with some (at that time) amazing and some mediocre.
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post #27766 of 29423
12/31/12 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrehdd View Post


You mention speaker drivers et cetera - Studio 65 speaker drivers are larger than the 8060 (sans woofer) - your thoughts again.

I'd go with the SR 8080HD with the SM65. You'll probably get more low end than you need but that can easily be adjusted with the gain knob on back. Having basically the same array of 1" and 5.25" drivers in the front three would give you way more evenness than going with something smaller, like the 8060HD. Not saying the 8060HD would sound horrible but you would notice the difference when running Audyssey or test tones.
Quote:
High, medium and low mids - might have to consider the monitor to be as good or better given air volume and being larger than the tower's offering
Bass - hard to discern given that many today seem to blend/mix/confuse with sub sonics. However, I would say one needs more likely to listen to know which is better between the two.
Sub - this is the crux of it all. Does the tower provide not only a decent sub but the location of the sub work for most set ups. With either the tower or the monitor, one can easily add 1-2 sub separates.
If any of the above is not accurate, I am open to correction. Again, it has been several years for me and yes, I was one of those youths that did build some speakers with some (at that time) amazing and some mediocre.

I think the built-in sub-woofers in the 8xxx series are rather weak compared to the 7xxx line. I think DefTech realized that a lot of folks were STILL going out and buying external subs with their 7xxx line. The built-in subs make sense for music but bi-pole does not. The built-in subs don't make sense for movies but bi-pole does. I think DefTech is just trying to cover all of the bases with a balanced speaker. They have backed off on the back array to make them better for music but still make them good for movies. I'm satisfied with mine with both movies and music but I also hardly ever play music in just 2-channel mode. I'm actually using Audyssey DSX for my CD collection. Some stuff sounds good, like Classical, instrumental, or live concerts, and some, not so, particularly Hard Rock or Metal.

I'd have to rate my setup as B- for movies and C+ for music, with uber-systems with $100,000 speakers in treated rooms getting an A or A+ and HTiB's getting F or D-. Bose gets a ZERO. biggrin.gif
Edited by jevans64 - 12/31/12 at 5:00pm
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post #27767 of 29423
12/31/12 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrehdd View Post

Yosh that was rather an interesting and thoughtful comment on your part. I do have some thoughts and welcome a response -
Many folks feel that the best place for a sub may not be exactly where the front left and right speakers are located. Given this, what really is better - all in one like the 8060/8080 or say sub with a pair of studio monitors?
Internal capacity of a speaker box - The Studio 65 is a rather large box and and the 8060 is tall and narrow. Is there that much difference in the internal volume of air to move? Are the speakers in the towers given internal boxes (encapsulated) to reside in and what are those volumes? Seems that a Studio 65 plus external sub might be of similar air volumes to an 8060. - Your thoughts?
You mention speaker drivers et cetera - Studio 65 speaker drivers are larger than the 8060 (sans woofer) - your thoughts again.
Hopefully, you understand I am going with what you have mentioned which has a good logic to it but admittedly I see where you favour the towers over the Studio speakers.

To me, the advantage of having the sub built-in the speaker isn't necessarily not needing an external stand -alone sub (I personally prefer a separate sub or two for the heavy lifting down low). Having the built in sub gives the capability of being (nearly) full range speakers. Having full range speakers times 5 or 7 in a home theater is a huge advantage. Then a stand-alone sub becomes truly specific to the LFE channel. I choose to cross my full range towers at 40 or 60 so that they are almost full range, but my stand alone subs are handling the LFE plus the very, very bottom octaves. A bookshelf speaker is DEPENDENT on a stand alone sub and is "tuned" to go only so low with it's passive radiator. Push a bookshelf too hard (War of the Worlds pod scene for example) and it will distort or simply be unable to play the notes. Crossing a bookshelf becomes a necessity and if you have to cross too high then it becomes harder to blend with a stand alone sub. Localization and a handful of blending issues can occur. A full range tower does not theoretically need to be crossed to a stand alone sub ---but I choose to. Now if I choose to cross at 60 for example, 60 is not a hard full stop. The speaker may still receive some spill over lower than 60 and I know it is capable of handling it since it is full range. Also with Definitive towers, there is no experimentation with figuring out the ideal crossover point as you would with monitors, because definitive has already figured this out for you and the towers built-in crossovers decide what the active sub portion should receive. Since I cross my towers so low, blending is a snap (but room characteristics are a different story for a different thread). Room characteristics play a much larger role blending a sub with monitors than it does with blending a sub with full range towers.

Also having full range towers gives a little flexibility. If I am critically listening to 2 channel music, I can choose to listen "direct" and take the coloration of my stand-alone subs out of the picture and know that I am still hearing full-range music and the speaker is deciding what info the internal subs do/don't receive. If I want to have a bit more fun, then I can add in the external subs to beef things up a bit more down low. As pointed out earlier in the thread, there are some limitations on how much air a built-in tower sub can move. It may be "full range" but may not have the "impact" that some desire. This is another reason I choose to have external subs.

I would think the 8060 has a bigger cabinet volume than the Studio 65 ----may require a call to Chet or Adam at DefTech. Even if it does have a smaller cabinet, it still has an active woofer to compensate for any shortcomings.

I certainly don't mean or want to ruffle any feathers out there. I LOVE definitive and am truly a fanboy. I have been through Mythos ST's, Mythos 4's, Mythos 10, 2 SC References, BPX, BPVX, BP7000's, 8080HD etc in some combinations along the way. I am a nut. There are others with "upgraditis" much worse than mine on this thread. And they have far more experience and knowldege than me. I am simply sharing my opinions. I hope Joe bails me out here as I think I am certainly upsetting a few folks here. Sorry. There is a reason Definitive offers so many choices......because everyone's ears are a bit different.

I would certainly be more than happy using/owning the Studio Monitor series for critical 2 channel listening in a den or as wides or heights in a medium/large home theater situation or as mains in a moderate/small theater. I simply prefer the towers for most applications as it is simply my preference as I feel they are much more capable (full range) and given the price and capabilities, present a better value ---especially for home theater or a mixed use situation.

As I mentioned before, much depends on budget, wife, room size and limitations, neighbors, and speaker preference (bipolar vs direct), etc.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE ON THE THREAD! BE SAFE
I WILL BE HAVING A GLASS (OR BOTTLE) OF LIBATION IN DURING A NICE BLURAY WITH THE FAMILY AND A LITTLE HALO 4 OR FIONA APPLE AFTER
ENJOY!smile.gifcool.gif
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post #27768 of 29423
12/31/12 at 5:27pm
For a processor I have a dennon 3808ci and a Yamaha Aventage RX-A3020
For Amplification I have B&K reference 7.1 (200wpc) and a Emotiva XPA 5 channel
I have an Oppo BDP 95

I also bought a pair of Monitor Audio GX300's to do a small scale speaker shootout between the 2 and my current custom Salk/HEIL towers.. I heard the monitor GX200's and was REALLY impressed for music
Should be fun!
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post #27769 of 29423
12/31/12 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartMan01 View Post

What's 'better' is a full size speaker WITHOUT the sub built in, like my BP30s. I'm sorry to say, but the current Def-Tech lineup just doesn't have anything I would want in my media room - but I LOVE my 'old school' Def Tech setup.

I 2nd that I still have a set of bp30's in garage along with my 2 SVS subs that are going to be so hard to see go and that setup rocks. Bp30's i will never be able to let go
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post #27770 of 29423
12/31/12 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

To me, the advantage of having the sub built-in the speaker isn't necessarily not needing an external stand -alone sub (I personally prefer a separate sub or two for the heavy lifting down low). Having the built in sub gives the capability of being (nearly) full range speakers. Having full range speakers times 5 or 7 in a home theater is a huge advantage. Then a stand-alone sub becomes truly specific to the LFE channel. I choose to cross my full range towers at 40 or 60 so that they are almost full range, but my stand alone subs are handling the LFE plus the very, very bottom octaves. A bookshelf speaker is DEPENDENT on a stand alone sub and is "tuned" to go only so low with it's passive radiator. Push a bookshelf too hard (War of the Worlds pod scene for example) and it will distort or simply be unable to play the notes. Crossing a bookshelf becomes a necessity and if you have to cross too high then it becomes harder to blend with a stand alone sub. Localization and a handful of blending issues can occur. A full range tower does not theoretically need to be crossed to a stand alone sub ---but I choose to. Now if I choose to cross at 60 for example, 60 is not a hard full stop. The speaker may still receive some spill over lower than 60 and I know it is capable of handling it since it is full range. Also with Definitive towers, there is no experimentation with figuring out the ideal crossover point as you would with monitors, because definitive has already figured this out for you and the towers built-in crossovers decide what the active sub portion should receive. Since I cross my towers so low, blending is a snap (but room characteristics are a different story for a different thread). Room characteristics play a much larger role blending a sub with monitors than it does with blending a sub with full range towers.
Also having full range towers gives a little flexibility. If I am critically listening to 2 channel music, I can choose to listen "direct" and take the coloration of my stand-alone subs out of the picture and know that I am still hearing full-range music and the speaker is deciding what info the internal subs do/don't receive. If I want to have a bit more fun, then I can add in the external subs to beef things up a bit more down low. As pointed out earlier in the thread, there are some limitations on how much air a built-in tower sub can move. It may be "full range" but may not have the "impact" that some desire. This is another reason I choose to have external subs.
I would think the 8060 has a bigger cabinet volume than the Studio 65 ----may require a call to Chet or Adam at DefTech. Even if it does have a smaller cabinet, it still has an active woofer to compensate for any shortcomings.
I certainly don't mean or want to ruffle any feathers out there. I LOVE definitive and am truly a fanboy. I have been through Mythos ST's, Mythos 4's, Mythos 10, 2 SC References, BPX, BPVX, BP7000's, 8080HD etc in some combinations along the way. I am a nut. There are others with "upgraditis" much worse than mine on this thread. And they have far more experience and knowldege than me. I am simply sharing my opinions. I hope Joe bails me out here as I think I am certainly upsetting a few folks here. Sorry. There is a reason Definitive offers so many choices......because everyone's ears are a bit different.
I would certainly be more than happy using/owning the Studio Monitor series for critical 2 channel listening in a den or as wides or heights in a medium/large home theater situation or as mains in a moderate/small theater. I simply prefer the towers for most applications as it is simply my preference as I feel they are much more capable (full range) and given the price and capabilities, present a better value ---especially for home theater or a mixed use situation.

As I mentioned before, much depends on budget, wife, room size and limitations, neighbors, and speaker preference (bipolar vs direct), etc.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE ON THE THREAD! BE SAFE
I WILL BE HAVING A GLASS (OR BOTTLE) OF LIBATION IN DURING A NICE BLURAY WITH THE FAMILY AND A LITTLE HALO 4 OR FIONA APPLE AFTER
ENJOY!smile.gifcool.gif

I appreciate the exchange here with you and Jevan. Nice to see a civil discussion on speakers and in particular a touchy topic.

It would seem to be quite a plus to have tower speakers that really covered the full gambit of "above sub-sonic" sound with a thoughtful presence. That would be my first pick and then a sub added to the mix or two. I found the 8060 and 8080 to be good speakers for HT purposes when matched with surrounds. I say this from a couple of demos I was fortunate enough to experience. For music, they were okay and my guess is if I had them, I would adapt to the flavour of sound they put out and psycho-accoustics (slightly over used term). Based on the design of the 8080 and 8060, I want to say that the SM 65 does have more air available to push. The short coming of course is the lack of the lower end. Seems that one could in theory get a couple of SM 65's and place below them properly some smaller subs that don't reach as low but do well in the upper end of bass and give the combination a full range sound. - Perhaps a quality front firing 8 or 10 inch powered sub with ability to get the right cross over that meshes with the monitors. In fact, done properly it would probably exceed the sound quality of the 80xx towers.

As I consider 2013 the year for upgrades, I had to rethink things quite a bit and realize that music is a bit more important to me than HT sound. In fact, at times I wish I could keep dialogue up and tone down some of the sound effects. Myself and a few friends often scratch our heads wondering who the H3LL mixes these movies when some effects are so much louder yet have no reason to be. Yes, explosions and more might be good candidates but other sounds not so much. I guess "WOW" factor of a cheap nature is more en vogue that some sense of realism. Hmmm

Again thanks both of you for your opinions. I live in a flat that doesn't lend it self for super loud audio (neighbors share walls). With this in mind, getting a good sound stage with minimal "boom" is a must. I want some "boom" but at a lesser volume so I simply get the sense of it rather than be thrown out of my chair. My view of the SM 65 had more to do with music than HT. I wanted to start with a 3.x system and then add later surrounds. There doesn't seem to be any really useful reviews (yet) on the SM 65's -- only one or two perhaps have value.
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post #27771 of 29423
1/1/13 at 12:20am
Well I have been reading and reviewing myself to death for weeks. I pulled the trigger and bought the 8060 towers, 8040 center, 8040 surrounds. They are in transit to my local store I get from. In a few weeks I will add a HSU VTF-15H subwoofer. I also bought a pair of Pro Monitor 1000's for my from high, or rear surround on my 6-7 assignable channels. I got those off Audiogan.
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post #27772 of 29423
1/1/13 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Well I have been reading and reviewing myself to death for weeks. I pulled the trigger and bought the 8060 towers, 8040 center, 8040 surrounds. They are in transit to my local store I get from. In a few weeks I will add a HSU VTF-15H subwoofer. I also bought a pair of Pro Monitor 1000's for my from high, or rear surround on my 6-7 assignable channels. I got those off Audiogan.

Nice man! I also just got that speaker package and have been enjoying it since Christmas Eve...I think you will love it. Please let me know what you think of the HSU VTF 15. I'm considering it for a future upgrade. Thinking I may go with SM 45's for my surrounds and presence speakers in the future...not really sure which direction I should go for those speakers. Any suggestions? I currently have the 8040 surrounds setup behind my couch on the walls that run perpendicular to the couch. My theater area is open in the rear and there isn't really a spot to put rear surrounds unless I hang them off the ceiling with some type of custom mount.
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post #27773 of 29423
1/1/13 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnake21 View Post

Nice man! I also just got that speaker package and have been enjoying it since Christmas Eve...I think you will love it. Please let me know what you think of the HSU VTF 15. I'm considering it for a future upgrade. Thinking I may go with SM 45's for my surrounds and presence speakers in the future...not really sure which direction I should go for those speakers. Any suggestions? I currently have the 8040 surrounds setup behind my couch on the walls that run perpendicular to the couch. My theater area is open in the rear and there isn't really a spot to put rear surrounds unless I hang them off the ceiling with some type of custom mount.

Well optimally You want your surrounds about ear level standing which obviously sits above when sitting. But layouts of rooms only have so many options. Until we all have our own custom theater rooms of course! I think mounted in the corner of the wall/ceiling or ceiling isn't so bad. Audissey setup will locate the speaker. I was thinking about going for SM55's for my other fronts but I found super good deal on a pair of Pro Monitor 1000's. And the are easy to mount and angle with definitive's mounts. My receiver is 7.2 and the extra two speaker channels are assignable to front high or back surround. I decided since music is pretty important to me I wanted to go with extra front high speakers out a little wider than the towers. I think it will open up the soundstage even more with the bipolars. But too your question, I think off ceiling is fine. You might raise your 8040's a little. You could also 'somehow' Hang it a little with an angle down. Like this

Obviously this is big and there is nowhere to attach to SM45 but it's a starting point.
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post #27774 of 29423
1/1/13 at 2:00pm
Hello,

I need help in selecting good speakers for a 3.1 system for 50/50 music/movie. Store guys suggested 3.1 instead of 5.1 with wireless surround. I have a Sony STR-DN-1020 receiver and the room is 15' x 25' x 8'. After some research Def Tech seems to be a good choice and here's the current list:

Front: Currently there are good deals on Mythos Five, Mythos Four, BP8B, BP7006 as they seem to be older models. Would these serve as good fronts?

Center: Mythos Three

Sub: Don't know yet and will probably purchase in a few months.

Here are a few questions:
1. The BP8B seems to be current low end technology and has 2 5.25" bass/mid + 2 1" tweeters while the Mythos 4/5 are older technology but have more driver units. BP8B has a lower frequency response compared to the Mythos. Should I pick newer and fewer or older and more? The BP8B is significantly cheaper than the rest. I could put those savings is a better sub.
2. Would this be better than the ProCinema 600/800/1000 deals? Demos on floorstanding BP models definitely sound better than the 800/1000s.
3. Any thoughts on the center and recommendations for the sub?
4. How about recommendations for decent quality speaker wires?
5. Since the BP7006 has 8" built-in sub, does that eliminate the need for a sub? Or if everything is combined into one unit, does it result in lower quality or greater likelihood of problems?

Thank you for your help.
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post #27775 of 29423
1/1/13 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJCamarillo View Post

4. How about recommendations for decent quality speaker wires?

Figure the gauge you want/need for the distance you need, and then go to your local big box store and buy stranded copper wire in that gauge. Here is a good guideline for minimum gauge to use: http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/speaker-cable-gauge
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post #27776 of 29423
1/1/13 at 6:59pm
Hey guys. When I first started my research for my HT upgrade I was interested in DefTech after hearing my friend's Sm45 speakers. I want towers though and noticed that the towers are bi-pole. How do you work around this when dealing with room treatments? I had planned on putting acoustic panels behind my towers to avoid reflection. seems like this would be a bad idea with bi-polar speakers. Thoughts?
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post #27777 of 29423
1/1/13 at 6:59pm
Hey guys. When I first started my research for my HT upgrade I was interested in DefTech after hearing my friend's Sm45 speakers. I want towers though and noticed that the towers are bi-pole. How do you work around this when dealing with room treatments? I had planned on putting acoustic panels behind my towers to avoid reflection. seems like this would be a bad idea with bi-polar speakers. Thoughts?
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post #27778 of 29423
1/1/13 at 7:00pm
Hey guys. When I first started my research for my HT upgrade I was interested in DefTech after hearing my friend's Sm45 speakers. I want towers though and noticed that the towers are bi-pole. How do you work around this when dealing with room treatments? I had planned on putting acoustic panels behind my towers to avoid reflection. seems like this would be a bad idea with bi-polar speakers. Thoughts?
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post #27779 of 29423
1/1/13 at 7:00pm
Hmmm. not sure what happened there. sorry for the multiple posts.
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post #27780 of 29423
1/1/13 at 9:05pm
I was hoping to get some insight from all of the DefTech owners here, I am looking to change my current setup and sell my B&W CM8 towers and switch to something from DefTech. It would be mostly for theater use, and I am debating between the Mythos ST or the BP700SC's. I can get a pair of new Mythos ST for about $1,200 and a New Pair of BP700SC for $1,600. Any suggestions/ thoughts on the two speakers? I am using a Pioneer Elite SC-57 to drive my system currently.
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