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post #27991 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

I don't know if you want to use Audyssey with BP7001SCs. I used it in my room with BP7000SCs and it just killed the bass in the room. It was weak and just sounded awful, however, when I unplugged my towers it did excellent job with my HGS-18 sealed sub, it was actually pretty amazing!

Why wouldn't you want to use Audyssey? Are your speakers going to catch on fire and burn down your house if you do?

Try Audyssey and if you don't like it...turn it off. Suggesting that someone should not use Audyssey because it didn’t work for you is bad advice.

I use Audyssey on my 7001s and they sound great. It took some trial-and-error to get it right, but once I got it right, I’ve been very pleased with the results.

Using Audyssey takes some knowledge for proper calibration. If you do it right, it should improve the sound. If you do it wrong...the sound will suck!

Spend a little time at the Audyssey thread and learn how to do it correctly. It takes more than setting the mic in the room and pushing a button.

There is so much misinformation on this thread it's scary.

Why do you want to crossover your speakers with built-in subs below 80hz? The towers are built with internal 80hz crossovers already. Crossing them again above or below 80hz is called "cascading"
Quote:
Cascading crossovers cause a number of problems, possible large DB loss in bass level. Using your processor/receiver's crossover to filter out unwanted frequencies before sending the signal to your sub, you don't want to use the sub's built-in crossover on top of that (cascading crossovers). If your sub has a LFE bypass input, it is recommended to use this input instead of normal low-level inputs. The LFE bypass will bypass the sub's built-in crossover.
The bottom line is, avoid cascading crossovers.
.
The same principle applies to speakers with built-in subs. There is a crossover in the tower that is engineered to produce the best results.

From Def Tech...
Quote:
Each BP7001SC combines a built-in 10" SuperCube® subwoofer driven by a 1500-Watt class D amp.
Linkwitz-Riley crossover networks do a superlative job of seamlessly blending the drivers for totally homogeneous sonic output as if radiating from a full-range pulsating sphere.
Audiophiles often spend dozens of hours moving and adjusting their subwoofers' crossover and phasing controls in pursuit of perfect subwoofer to main speaker "blending." With the BP7001SC you won't have to go through that kind of hassle to get audio perfection. Definitive's engineers have perfectly adjusted the crossover and phase between the subwoofer and main speaker sections to achieve seamless blending and life-like sound. All you have to do is set the bass volume to match your room and taste then sit back and enjoy audio perfection.

http://www.definitivetech.com/products/bp7001sc



The only way to bypass the built-in crossovers is by using the LFE inputs on the towers, which is what I do. Then, I let Audyssey EQ the built-in subs as though they were stand-alones. You won't be able to completely negate the effect of the internal crossovers since there will be some roll-off below 80hz, but the harm will be much less than cascading crossovers.

I don’t care where Audyssey sets my crossovers because I change them back to 80hz which is the closest match to the Linkwitz-Riley crossovers that are already in the towers, and according to Def Tech, will do the least amount of harm to the overall sound.

Some folks like this approach and some don’t. It is strictly personal preference.

But, using the receiver’s bass management to change the crossovers to anything other than 80hz when using speaker wire, will most likely do more harm than good.

I apologize in advance for the snarky tone of this post, but holy crap!...those of us lucky enough to own
Def Tech speakers shouldn’t make suggestions that will take great speakers and make them mediocre.
post #27992 of 29313
Hello I have an older setup of 2x7004s, clr2002 and 2xbp2x. I also picked up 2 Rythmik 12" subs. This system is good and has served me for many years. Also, IMO I have found the Definitive speakers to be very good for both Music and HT. I was looking to upgrade my three front speakers and I saw a special featuring the 8060s. Should I consider buying the 8060s and move the 7004s to the back of the room? (would they go together?) Or maybe get towers with "better" high and mid-range, since I have the separate subs. Thanks for your feedback.

Before I go, I do want to give a shout out to Definitive for their customer service. I had one of the 7004 amps go bad not too long ago. I gave Definitive a call and, even though my speakers were out of warranty, they sent me a new part with no questions asked.
post #27993 of 29313
^^^Well, no snarkiness intended either yet setting a pair of DTs at 40hz will not hurt a thing let alone make them "mediocre" sounding... Many individuals have been experimenting with AVR crossover settings on DTs from inception from early to mid 90s with "personal" configuration success.
On that note I would also go on by saying this thread is far from being the "scary" thread horror show due to misinformation.. There is a huge difference between misinformation and opinion/preference. And this thread/group is probably one of the best in differentiating between fact and what is personal preference with their DT speaker use/configuration. If you go back and read the several posts prior to yours you may realize that even the tone and language used was personal preference/suggestive in nature, individuals own experience etc.

Yes "crossover cascading" can cause issues if applied inappropriately. In most cases, cascading crossover settings close to the same freq can be worse than two set with a wide birth. The fact Audyssey set the above gents DTs at 40hz isn't an issue rather a very probable indication that the speaker will perform best if limited to 40hz and above.

We will now return to our regular broadcast day: Rocky Mountain Horror Picture "Thread". :-)

JMHO with a bit of humor thrown in.

Cheers
post #27994 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot20 View Post

Why wouldn't you want to use Audyssey? Are your speakers going to catch on fire and burn down your house if you do?

Try Audyssey and if you don't like it...turn it off. Suggesting that someone should not use Audyssey because it didn’t work for you is bad advice.

I use Audyssey on my 7001s and they sound great. It took some trial-and-error to get it right, but once I got it right, I’ve been very pleased with the results.

Using Audyssey takes some knowledge for proper calibration. If you do it right, it should improve the sound. If you do it wrong...the sound will suck!

Spend a little time at the Audyssey thread and learn how to do it correctly. It takes more than setting the mic in the room and pushing a button.

There is so much misinformation on this thread it's scary.

Why do you want to crossover your speakers with built-in subs below 80hz? The towers are built with internal 80hz crossovers already. Crossing them again above or below 80hz is called "cascading"
.
The same principle applies to speakers with built-in subs. There is a crossover in the tower that is engineered to produce the best results.

From Def Tech...
http://www.definitivetech.com/products/bp7001sc



The only way to bypass the built-in crossovers is by using the LFE inputs on the towers, which is what I do. Then, I let Audyssey EQ the built-in subs as though they were stand-alones. You won't be able to completely negate the effect of the internal crossovers since there will be some roll-off below 80hz, but the harm will be much less than cascading crossovers.

I don’t care where Audyssey sets my crossovers because I change them back to 80hz which is the closest match to the Linkwitz-Riley crossovers that are already in the towers, and according to Def Tech, will do the least amount of harm to the overall sound.

Some folks like this approach and some don’t. It is strictly personal preference.

But, using the receiver’s bass management to change the crossovers to anything other than 80hz when using speaker wire, will most likely do more harm than good.

I apologize in advance for the snarky tone of this post, but holy crap!...those of us lucky enough to own
Def Tech speakers shouldn’t make suggestions that will take great speakers and make them mediocre.

Are you using Audyssey XT or XT32? If I can get my BP7000SC sounding like my HGS-18 with Audyssey , I'd be a happy camper. Without Audyssey they actually sounds almost the same in the room.
post #27995 of 29313
Thanks for the input guys!

I did up the crossover for the BPX & Di6.5S to 80hz (same as my bedroom which has 5 Di6.5R). I'm just thinking should I up the crossover for the BP7001SC to 60hz as the SVS should provide better bass than the built-in in the 7001SC? But then again, isn't I'm defecting the purpose of having the "SC"? I have no problem with the ultra low end as the SVS shake my room without any problem. It's the mid-bass that I wanna see which will do better.

Btw, I do have XT32 if that matters.
post #27996 of 29313
I posted a question regarding the 8060ST bundle but pulling it as I answered it on my trip to bb. Not sure they'll work better in my current setup.

However, regarding the 8040BPs as rears. The guy might have just been swaying me to another speaker but made it sound like a bad idea for me to go with those as my rears. The room is 16 feet, the back row will be inches from the wall. I was kind of hoping to either do in walls or get something like these guys instead of my bulky bookcases that are difficult to point to the seats. He suggested in ceiling which is doable but makes me think eh, doesn't seem like something I want to do for rears.
Edited by ArthurVandelay - 1/16/13 at 10:12am
post #27997 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Thanks for the input guys!

I did up the crossover for the BPX & Di6.5S to 80hz (same as my bedroom which has 5 Di6.5R). I'm just thinking should I up the crossover for the BP7001SC to 60hz as the SVS should provide better bass than the built-in in the 7001SC? But then again, isn't I'm defecting the purpose of having the "SC"? I have no problem with the ultra low end as the SVS shake my room without any problem. It's the mid-bass that I wanna see which will do better.

Btw, I do have XT32 if that matters.

I would just turn off your SVS and perform an SC only test between a 40 and 60hz setting. What you may find is a further tightening of the SCs low end crossed at 60hz. You may also not hear a difference - only your ears and preference is required. :-) Even set at 60 you would probably still get a bit of roll-off into the 50s. Give it a shot and let us know what you think.
cherrs
post #27998 of 29313
I bought a Pioneer VSX-1022-K 7.2 channel receiver because my home came with 8 in-ceiling mounted speakers (2 in each of 4 rooms) and my old 5.1 receiver was outdated and was not powerful enough to drive all 8 speakers. However, even though there is some improvement, the speakers still aren't able to get loud enough to enjoy in all 4 rooms (I have a 4-way switchbox and even with 1-2 rooms turned on, the sound is still just not as powerful as I would expect). I suspect the extra long length cheap quality speaker wires don't help. What do you suggest I do to help resolve this? I was thinking of buying an amplifier to help fortify & strengthen the power to the speakers. Not sure what kind to get, but I only can spare a couple hundred towards a used amp. Your suggestions & feedback would be most appreciated! Thanks!
post #27999 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by RICH531 View Post

I bought a Pioneer VSX-1022-K 7.2 channel receiver because my home came with 8 in-ceiling mounted speakers (2 in each of 4 rooms) and my old 5.1 receiver was outdated and was not powerful enough to drive all 8 speakers. However, even though there is some improvement, the speakers still aren't able to get loud enough to enjoy in all 4 rooms (I have a 4-way switchbox and even with 1-2 rooms turned on, the sound is still just not as powerful as I would expect). I suspect the extra long length cheap quality speaker wires don't help. What do you suggest I do to help resolve this? I was thinking of buying an amplifier to help fortify & strengthen the power to the speakers. Not sure what kind to get, but I only can spare a couple hundred towards a used amp. Your suggestions & feedback would be most appreciated! Thanks!
LINK I have several of these throughout the house running anywhere from 2 to 8 ceiling/wall mounted speakers. I will even be using one for four bass shakers mounted under my couches. They have been awesome for the last year that I have owned them and drive all the speakers I have connected to them way louder than I could ever listen to them.
post #28000 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by RICH531 View Post

I suspect the extra long length cheap quality speaker wires don't help. What do you suggest I do to help resolve this? I was thinking of buying an amplifier to help fortify & strengthen the power to the speakers.

Good info on what gauge wire you need for what distances. FYI - my surrounds are wired with 'too small' a wire per this chart but they are fine and have to be trimmed down some when calibrated, but bottom line is for really long runs you need really thick wire.
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/speaker-cable-gauge

The other thing you should try to do is get the amps as close as possible to the speakers.
post #28001 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurVandelay View Post

I posted a question regarding the 8060ST bundle but pulling it as I answered it on my trip to bb. Not sure they'll work better in my current setup.

However, regarding the 8040BPs as rears. The guy might have just been swaying me to another speaker but made it sound like a bad idea for me to go with those as my rears. The room is 16 feet, the back row will be inches from the wall. I was kind of hoping to either do in walls or get something like these guys instead of my bulky bookcases that are difficult to point to the seats. He suggested in ceiling which is doable but makes me think eh, doesn't seem like something I want to do for rears.
Hello Art Vandelay, I love your handle, as I am a big Seinfeld fan. Actually the 8040's should work great as rear speakers. If you aren't able to get them more than a couple of inches from the back wall, they won't image as well as if you are able to pull them away a little farther. But having said that, they will still have a broader, more diffuse sonic image than a forward firing speake wouldr. Also the bass will be far, far better than a simple pair of in-ceiling speakers. When the jets fly overhead, they won't turn into little turbo-props when they get to the rear.
BTW I got confused by your earlier comment regarding the BP 8060 ST bundle, which I think is a great value. Just my 2 cents! Best regards, Joe
post #28002 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Well my 8040 center and surrounds came in to the shop I ordered from but not the 8060 towers yet...Got mixed up from their main warehouse or something. Very legit place so I'm not worried. Also going to order the HSU VTF-15H this week too. So now I have pm 1000's as left/right for a couple days till towers come in. Better then no speaks.
Hello JLP, I am sorry that your BP 8060 ST's have not shown up yet. We not only ran through the overstocks that we had last fall, but we have been building them since, and haven't been able to keep up with the demand. I hope that you get yours soon and let us know how they sound! Best, Joe
post #28003 of 29313
SM45 vs SM55 vs SM65 with a Mythos 9 or 10 as center.

I am thinking of getting some Deftech speakers for my front 3 channels. The left and right will go on bookshelves and the center on a mantle under an LCD. For the center this would be a Mythos 9 or 10. For the left and right I am looking at the various studio monitors. The progression from SM45 to SM55 to SM65 seems interesting to me. The 45 and 65 both have the same 5-1/4" driver (the 65 has two of them) but the mid-priced model SM55 has the largest driver at 6-1/2", but only one. The 55 and 65 also have a "top-mounted racetrack bass radiator" which I am not sure I need and wonder if it will rattle inside a bookshelf. What are the pros/cons of these various three models? I will be using this with a sub and mostly for home theater. Thoughts? Anyone have this setup?
Edited by rileychris - 1/16/13 at 7:12pm
post #28004 of 29313
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84

Well my 8040 center and surrounds came in to the shop I ordered from but not the 8060 towers yet...Got mixed up from their main warehouse or something. Very legit place so I'm not worried. Also going to order the HSU VTF-15H this week too. So now I have pm 1000's as left/right for a couple days till towers come in. Better then no speaks.
Hello JLP, I am sorry that your BP 8060 ST's have not shown up yet. We not only ran through the overstocks that we had last fall, but we have been building them since, and haven't been able to keep up with the demand. I hope that you get yours soon and let us know how they sound! Best, Joe

Glad to see your back from Vegas. How was the show? Up for a $12,000 tv from LG? Just kidding. My towers showed up tuesday. I set them up and when they played I grinned big! So far I have only listened to music as life can get busy. I like two channel with the towers. My hsu sub will be here friday so I figured I would just wait and eq everything at once for movies. Joe, what is your view on having a standalone sub with the superpowers? What crossover settings? I am only a few months old in my home theater life. There is certainly lots of information and opinions out there. Dr. Hsu told me to set towers at 80hz and let sub handle low hz.
post #28005 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Thanks for the input guys!

I did up the crossover for the BPX & Di6.5S to 80hz (same as my bedroom which has 5 Di6.5R). I'm just thinking should I up the crossover for the BP7001SC to 60hz as the SVS should provide better bass than the built-in in the 7001SC? But then again, isn't I'm defecting the purpose of having the "SC"? I have no problem with the ultra low end as the SVS shake my room without any problem. It's the mid-bass that I wanna see which will do better.

Btw, I do have XT32 if that matters.


Land shark I would still set your 7001's at 40Hz the SC "subs" built in are fantastic as mid bass subs and can be very tight and loud with room filling bass and although your SVS can easily handle mid bass I would assume you would want to use both your towers and subs to the best of their abilities. The towers can easily handle down to 40Hz and roll off down to 30Hz with no issues whatsoever and your SVS will still be handling some mid bass but will be more effective with the sub 40Hz frequencies. I have found by placing my SVS opposite my towers my entire awkward shaped room gets overall fantastic bass response that seems to come from all over not just the front of the room ( when I had my sub in the front of my room). In fact my room with just the sub and older non DT speakers would have tremendous null voids which is why I bought the 7001's so I could use the built in "subs" to get overall bass response from all over by placing my SVS elsewhere than near my towers.
post #28006 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

BTW I got confused by your earlier comment regarding the BP 8060 ST bundle, which I think is a great value. Just my 2 cents! Best regards, Joe
Thanks Joe! Well, first off, they appear to be sold out everywhere which is the biggest problem. However, looks like they need to be off the wall a little wheras the Infinitys I have now seem to be designed for that corner and I'm going to try to build some columns on the sides of the screen and tuck them in there and have bass traps above them to the soffit. I know some say dah but the towers I have still sound really nice and are shaped for the corner and fire out the front and I don't think i'll take a noticeable hit but I'll see and if so then no soup for the infinity speakers and I'll bail on the columns and look at those 8060s if they're ever available again smile.gif.
post #28007 of 29313
Man Joe, I was at CES for three days and didnt even see Def Tech there! Im sad I missed you guys! Next year I guess!
post #28008 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by rileychris View Post

SM45 vs SM55 vs SM65 with a Mythos 9 or 10 as center.

I am thinking of getting some Deftech speakers for my front 3 channels. The left and right will go on bookshelves and the center on a mantle under an LCD. For the center this would be a Mythos 9 or 10. For the left and right I am looking at the various studio monitors. The progression from SM45 to SM55 to SM65 seems interesting to me. The 45 and 65 both have the same 5-1/4" driver (the 65 has two of them) but the mid-priced model SM55 has the largest driver at 6-1/2", but only one. The 55 and 65 also have a "top-mounted racetrack bass radiator" which I am not sure I need and wonder if it will rattle inside a bookshelf. What are the pros/cons of these various three models? I will be using this with a sub and mostly for home theater. Thoughts? Anyone have this setup?

I just purchased 55s for the front and 45s for the rears and using the a 65 as a center and couldn't be happier. Still trying to break them in so im not sure how much better they will get, but i honestly couldn't imagine this setup getting any better than what it is.
post #28009 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by rileychris View Post

SM45 vs SM55 vs SM65 with a Mythos 9 or 10 as center.

I am thinking of getting some Deftech speakers for my front 3 channels. The left and right will go on bookshelves and the center on a mantle under an LCD. For the center this would be a Mythos 9 or 10. For the left and right I am looking at the various studio monitors. The progression from SM45 to SM55 to SM65 seems interesting to me. The 45 and 65 both have the same 5-1/4" driver (the 65 has two of them) but the mid-priced model SM55 has the largest driver at 6-1/2", but only one. The 55 and 65 also have a "top-mounted racetrack bass radiator" which I am not sure I need and wonder if it will rattle inside a bookshelf. What are the pros/cons of these various three models? I will be using this with a sub and mostly for home theater. Thoughts? Anyone have this setup?

I'm running a pair of SM65's up front on 26" stands with a Mythos Ten center. I even picked up a 3rd SM65 to try as a center channel but found that the shape was too distracting to look at. Sounded great, but in the end, I couldn't place a clearly vertically-oriented speaker (not like traditional LCR speakers) on its side because it just looked wrong. I would use it as my center, however, if I had the option of keeping it vertically. Running Gem XL's on 30" stands as surround by the way.

The SM65's have a very spacious soundstage and smooth midrange. They have excellent imaging, produce a silly amount of bass for bookshelves (for 2channel music), and have a very understated look when the grills are on. If you're planning on using an actual bookshelf to place these speakers, I would suggest that the front baffle hangs a bit over the edge of the shelf if at all possible to help keep the soundstage open. I have heard the 45's at a stereo shop but in less than desirable setup - just a pair among rows of others on a high shelf.

Pros:
  • Very wide soundstage - sound is wider than where the speakers are mounted
  • smooth midrange - vocals are pleasant, even high female voices
  • dig deep - the speakers have a very full range sound if you're into 2 channel music
  • can go from a very understated look with the grills on or Shiny! with the grills off

Cons:
  • audible difference between grill on or off - upper frequencies more pronounced with grill off
  • size - very deep and tall for a bookshelf speaker
post #28010 of 29313
Thanks Accu. That helps a lot.
post #28011 of 29313
Well as we are as of today


post #28012 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Well as we are as of today


8060's look great...how do you like them so far?...I love mine!...since its tax time I'm going to get a few goodies for my system...first thing is some nice anti cables for my towers...wink.gif...enjoy your speakers!
post #28013 of 29313
Quote:
8060's look great...how do you like them so far?...I love mine!...since its tax time I'm going to get a few goodies for my system...first thing is some nice anti cables for my towers......enjoy your speakers!

Yes they are nice for sure! Receiver and a tv stand is next for me. what are anti cables?
post #28014 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yes they are nice for sure! Receiver and a tv stand is next for me. what are anti cables?

http://anticables.com/
I'm a tweaker and I've been wanting to try them for a while...smile.gif...they get great reviews
post #28015 of 29313
L/R= Mythos ST
C= currently porcenter 1000 upgrading tomorrow to the 8040HD got a great deal
Surrounds= Pro-Monitor 1000
Sub= Both Mythos ST on a LFE channel
Receive= Pioneer Elite VSX-32
r
post #28016 of 29313
Here an update for my new center bp7001SC
Love it


post #28017 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMES MCHUGHES View Post

Here an update for my new center bp7001SC
Love it


Dude, that's sick dies it really work good? I just got a third bp8b for a center but I'm placing it standing up hopefully its better than my pro center 2000!?biggrin.gif
post #28018 of 29313
Just looked to offset so centered to entertainment moved out wides and go back to heights I guess I will try this for a bit biggrin.gif:D
post #28019 of 29313
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollie83 View Post

Dude, that's sick dies it really work good? I just got a third bp8b for a center but I'm placing it standing up hopefully its better than my pro center 2000!?biggrin.gif

Yes im loving it. Its a BP7001SC I had a CLR3000 took it down so with 2 more drivers 2 tweeters and 2 passives with the 10'' supercube sub very big sound
post #28020 of 29313
CLR 2002 vs CLR 1000b?

Greetings fellow Def-heads. I have a CLR 2002 as the center to go along w/my (awesome) BP-2000 fronts and BP-6b rears and everything sounds great. Locally I see a deal on a 1000b, and can't help but wonder the difference between the 5.25" vs 6.5" drivers between the two centers, so that the front stage is the same size all the way around. Has anyone been able to compare the two centers?
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