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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 940

post #28171 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Could you post a pic of the room?

Here is a thread i started not too long ago and it has some pics of the room:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450100/new-audio-theater-setup-help-needed#post_22818016
post #28172 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

Here is a thread i started not too long ago and it has some pics of the room:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450100/new-audio-theater-setup-help-needed#post_22818016
Thx...I think the 8060's will do great in that room...I own them and they can get louder than you can stand..but like others stated if you want true thump then a dedicated sub will help...wink.gif
post #28173 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Thx...I think the 8060's will do great in that room...I own them and they can get louder than you can stand..but like others stated if you want true thump then a dedicated sub will help...wink.gif

Thank you so much! Do you know much about the Polk LSi series and if these are better, on par, etc.? also, for the money with the 5.1 setup being 2k on amazon right now, can you find anything better, in your opinion of course smile.gif I dont have a lot of high end shops around me to demo stuff. Minnesota only has Best Buy Magnolia rooms. Lucky me, right! haha
post #28174 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

Thank you so much! Do you know much about the Polk LSi series and if these are better, on par, etc.? also, for the money with the 5.1 setup being 2k on amazon right now, can you find anything better, in your opinion of course smile.gif I dont have a lot of high end shops around me to demo stuff. Minnesota only has Best Buy Magnolia rooms. Lucky me, right! haha

I've never heard the Polk LSI speakers but the definitive are 92 db sensitive so they are very easy to drive and there 10 inch sub puts out really nice thump...plus the bipolar aspect really fills a room.With the deal for 5 speakers for 2000 that really is a great deal...but regarding which is better?...that really depends on you and what YOU like...but rest easy as the deftech's are hard to beat in there class...smile.gif
post #28175 of 30965
Thank you! I'm looking at the pioneer 1222k. Will thatbe pplenty for these? Will I eventually want a external amp? Such decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

I've never heard the Polk LSI speakers but the definitive are 92 db sensitive so they are very easy to drive and there 10 inch sub puts out really nice thump...plus the bipolar aspect really fills a room.With the deal for 5 speakers for 2000 that really is a great deal...but regarding which is better?...that really depends on you and what YOU like...but rest easy as the deftech's are hard to beat in there class...smile.gif
post #28176 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

Thank you! I'm looking at the pioneer 1222k. Will thatbe pplenty for these? Will I eventually want a external amp? Such decisions.
The pioneer should be fine
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/SC-1222-K

And as for sub people really rave about HSU
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html

One of the nice things about the 8060 setup is the subs in them are great for the front so a seperate sub in your system will give you more placement options around the room to find a good spot for it.If you decide to get a sub that is...wink.gif
post #28177 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

The pioneer should be fine
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/SC-1222-K

And as for sub people really rave about HSU
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html

One of the nice things about the 8060 setup is the subs in them are great for the front so a seperate sub in your system will give you more placement options around the room to find a good spot for it.

thank you, i was looking at that HSU. My one quesiton or concern is the global xo. For example, the specs on the 8060 fronts say set them to large. Everything I read says to set all speakers besides the sub to small. With the xo if i set it at lets say 100 (That seems to be the limitation of the rears/center) am I missing out on all the goodness from the front l/r of the def tech and their dedicated sub in lets say the 30-100 range. I know the HSU will handle the low 20s but I dont want it to handle 20-100, i would like the fronts to do that job. Thoughts? Thank you again for your help on this

http://www.definitivetech.com/products/BP-8060ST-CS-8040HD-System
Edited by MNaudioguy - 1/26/13 at 8:05am
post #28178 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

If she is a factor the 15h may be an issue then. I think the sc 4000 performs well in a compact size. hsu also makes smaller ones too. Best of luck in your search!

Well unless anyone stops me I am going to go with the SVS PC12-NSD http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/cylinder/pc12-nsd#.UQP-RydX2So
Its 3ft high but the other half like the fact that it takes up less floor space as its not as deep :-)
Going to speak to SVS on Monday but its pretty much a done deal in my mind :-) Hopefully it will work well for movies and music.
post #28179 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerednai View Post

Well unless anyone stops me I am going to go with the SVS PC12-NSD http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/cylinder/pc12-nsd#.UQP-RydX2So
Its 3ft high but the other half like the fact that it takes up less floor space as its not as deep :-)
Going to speak to SVS on Monday but its pretty much a done deal in my mind :-) Hopefully it will work well for movies and music.

Im not stopping you smile.gif I am jealous! Tell us how it goes
post #28180 of 30965
The one thing about the definitive towers is they are unique from other speakers because they do have powered subs in them.I run mine large myself with no problems.I have a pioneer elite vsx-60 90 wpc and in my settings when you setup your speakers and say your fronts are large there is a setting to have the sub set to on and plus.With the plus option lfe will goto the towers plus your external sub.I run my system flat myself as in no eq settings except for distance and I enjoy it better that way but to get a sub to handle what you want just set its crossover where you need it.
post #28181 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

The one thing about the definitive towers is they are unique from other speakers because they do have powered subs in them.I run mine large myself with no problems.I have a pioneer elite vsx-60 90 wpc and in my settings when you setup your speakers and say your fronts are large there is a setting to have the sub set to on and plus.With the plus option lfe will goto the towers plus your external sub.I run my system flat myself as in no eq settings except for distance and I enjoy it better that way but to get a sub to handle what you want just set its crossover where you need it.

So lets say i set the fronts to Large, how would i be able to still add a dedicated sub (Lets say HSU 15) and have the fronts still pick up the 50 range and the sub do the work from 20-50? Am I going about this all wrong?
post #28182 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

So lets say i set the fronts to Large, how would i be able to still add a dedicated sub (Lets say HSU 15) and have the fronts still pick up the 50 range and the sub do the work from 20-50? Am I going about this all wrong?
With your towers set to large and hooked up speaker wire only the towers will get the full audio spectrum...and let's say your other speakers center and surrounds you set small with an 80hz crossover and then hook your sub up to reciever via lfe you would then set sub crossover to 50 hz to handle that and below.I am pretty sure thats how it works...lol...I havent owned a sub for a while but I think thats right.Like I said in your avr settings set sub to plus so the external sub plays.Then I think you are good to go...smile.gif
post #28183 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

With your towers set to large and hooked up speaker wire only the towers will get the full audio spectrum...and let's say your other speakers center and surrounds you set small with an 80hz crossover and then hook your sub up to reciever via lfe you would then set sub crossover to 50 hz to handle that and below.I am pretty sure thats how it works...lol...I havent owned a sub for a while but I think thats right.Like I said in your avr settings set sub to plus so the external sub plays.Then I think you are good to go...smile.gif

You are very informative smile.gif This is making sense. So, i just wouldnt utilize the LFE settings on the front L/R if i had a dedicated sub? Do i miss out on anything by doing that. Also, I am considering the Pioneer 1222k and that AVR only has a global xo. So is this an issue where i couldnt set a seperate sub xo at 50Hz? That is what i would be concerned about.
post #28184 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

You are very informative smile.gif This is making sense. So, i just wouldnt utilize the LFE settings on the front L/R if i had a dedicated sub? Do i miss out on anything by doing that. Also, I am considering the Pioneer 1222k and that AVR only has a global xo. So is this an issue where i couldnt set a seperate sub xo at 50Hz? That is what i would be concerned about.
Thanks...I try..smile.gif...and no you won't miss anything...having the towers large and with just a speaker wire hookup they will get the full signal and the crossovers in the towers will handle the blending for themselves.I think all pioneers have a global crossover...mine does.Also the only reason to hook lfe up to towers would be if you didn't have a seperate sub so you could treat the towers subs as external.Like I said with the towers large and with the center and surrounds small with an 80 hz global crossover you would then set sub to on or plus and set the sub crossover where you need it.
post #28185 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Thanks...I try..smile.gif...and no you won't miss anything...having the towers large and with just a speaker wire hookup they will get the full signal and the crossovers in the towers will handle the blending for themselves.I think all pioneers have a global crossover...mine does.Also the only reason to hook lfe up to towers would be if you didn't have a seperate sub so you could treat the towers subs as external.Like I said with the towers large and with the center and surrounds small with an 80 hz global crossover you would then set sub to on or plus and set the sub crossover where you need it.

so even with pioneer and a global xo, you can still set the xo for the sub to lets say 50 so anything going below 50 will divert from the Large fronts to the sub?
post #28186 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurolicious View Post

The Direct or Pure Direct modes do not change the speakers to full range. These modes simply eliminate any processing such as EQ and Standing Wave. If your speakers are set to Small with a crossover, the Direct and Pure Direct modes just use the Channel Level, Speaker Distance and Crossover setting that was selected during the initial set up. The only way to get full range is to manually go into the System Setup menu and change the speakers to Large.

Interesting because when I hit Pure Direct on my Onkyo 805 my external sub shuts off and the subs in my mains kick on.

Those wanting to use their powered towers as Full Range speakers be very careful to listen carefully. Depending on the room your tower "subs" may sound bloated which is why many of us set to small with a 40-60Hz crossover and an outboard sub. But many have found their towers work quite well as full range speakers. Think it all has to do with the shape of the room and acoustics. YRMV.
post #28187 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

so even with pioneer and a global xo, ywll set the xo for the sub to lets say 50 so anything going below 50 will divert from the Large fronts to the sub?
No the fronts will get the full signal but the sub will kick in where you set its crossover to...there is a gain knob on the towers for the bass to increase or decrease the signal.
post #28188 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

No the fronts will get the full signal but the sub will kick in where you set its crossover to...there is a gain knob on the towers for the bass to increase or decrease the signal.

So on the pioneer is there a seperate xo for the sub even though they say it has a global xo? If not, how would i diver anything below 50 to the sub if i have the global xo set to lets say 80 so i can preserve the centers/surrounds.
post #28189 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

so even with pioneer and a global xo, you can still set the xo for the sub to lets say 50 so anything going below 50 will divert from the Large fronts to the sub?

Only use the global crossover for what your smallest speaker can handle. If you set to 50Hz and your rear speakers can only get down to 100Hz you'll be overdriving them and introducing distortion. If all your speakers can handle 50Hz than by all means go for it. Global crossovers are the one downfall of Pioneer when people rarely have matching speakers all around.
post #28190 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

So on the pioneer is there a seperate xo for the sub even though they say it has a global xo? If not, how would i diver anything below 50 to the sub if i have the global xo set to lets say 80 so i can preserve the centers/surrounds.

You can't if you set to 80Hz all your speakers will send everything below 80Hz to the sub ( which btw is what THX recommends). Your only alternative is to buy a receiver with the ability to adjust each speakers crossover point like Denon and Onkyo.
post #28191 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post

Only use the global crossover for what your smallest speaker can handle. If you set to 50Hz and your rear speakers can only get down to 100Hz you'll be overdriving them and introducing distortion. If all your speakers can handle 50Hz than by all means go for it. Global crossovers are the one downfall of Pioneer when people rarely have matching speakers all around.
Thanks for your input...the global crossover it the only thing I dislike about pioneer...makes it tough to find a good blend but doable the more you experiment..wink.gif
post #28192 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post

You can't if you set to 80Hz all your speakers will send everything below 80Hz to the sub ( which btw is what THX recommends). Your only alternative is to buy a receiver with the ability to adjust each speakers crossover point like Denon and Onkyo.

Thanks for this. So am i purchasing too much speaker by getting the 8060 fronts and an external sub? I want to leverage their capability in the 50-80 range while having a external sub do its job lower 20-50. Maybe I will be just fine and get plenty of punch/bass from the 8060 towers even if i set the xo at 80Hz.. I just want to get my moneys worth out of the subs on the 8060s but i know my room is large enough (6500 cubic ft) where i should probably at some pt get a external sub. Would i still keep them set to "large" if i had an external sub? thanks all for the help. Can i mail you all a beer? haha
post #28193 of 30965
uote name="MNaudioguy" url="/t/625807/definitive-owners-thread/28170#post_22882242"]
Thanks for this. So am i purchasing too much speaker by getting the 8060 fronts and an external sub? I want to leverage their capability in the 50-80 range while having a external sub do its job lower 20-50. Maybe I will be just fine and get plenty of punch/bass from the 8060 towers even if i set the xo at 80Hz.. I just want to get my moneys worth out of the subs on the 8060s but i know my room is large enough (6500 cubic ft) where i should probably at some pt get a external sub. Would i still keep them set to "large" if i had an external sub? thanks all for the help. Can i mail you all a beer? haha[/quote]
Lol...beer sounds good...wink.gif... But really I would first get the speakers and test them out for a while...if you then decide you want a sub then go for it but you might like the bass from the towers and wait a bit for a sub...here is a fun vid I made with my system a while ago...;)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KkNHKOZTbI
post #28194 of 30965
Quote:
Thanks...I try.....and no you won't miss anything...having the towers large and with just a speaker wire hookup they will get the full signal and the crossovers in the towers will handle the blending for themselves.I think all pioneers have a global crossover...mine does.Also the only reason to hook lfe up to towers would be if you didn't have a seperate sub so you could treat the towers subs as external.Like I said with the towers large and with the center and surrounds small with an 80 hz global crossover you would then set sub to on or plus and set the sub crossover where you need it.

With the towers set to 'full band,' does it take the bass and then direct it to both the towers and the sub then? Rather then just the sub?
I did this and I feel like I took the restricter plates off of my towers! I was using the PL2 Music setting for music. I always noticed my towers were playing around 12db lower than the center. I even toyed with the equalizer with plus and minus db's to compensate when I had the crossovers on them between 60-80hz. I set them to full band and it sounds like I let them out of prison! The now dominate! Logically it seems they would not change in volume just allow to play lower than the crossover setting. But they are obviously louder. I did bump up my sub to -5db from -9db. I also dialed the gain knob on the towers back from 1 o'clock to 11 o'clock.
post #28195 of 30965
Quote:
But really I would first get the speakers and test them out for a while...if you then decide you want a sub then go for it but you might like the bass from the towers and wait a bit for a sub...

I agree with this. My towers came in on a tuesday. I brought them home and thought, 'why did I order a vtf-15h?' Because the bass was pretty good. I even played 'bass head' from 'bass nectar,' and I could hear the bass in the middle of my street. Of course now I have it all blended, well still toying...
post #28196 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I agree with this. My towers came in on a tuesday. I brought them home and thought, 'why did I order a vtf-15h?' Because the bass was pretty good. I even played 'bass head' from 'bass nectar,' and I could hear the bass in the middle of my street. Of course now I have it all blended, well still toying...

I think this is the first time i have seen someone on this forum recommend i NOT spend more money, haha. Thank you for that and you are probably right. In that case, would I utilize the LFE and speaker wire on the 8060 towers? That way, if i set the crossover to 80Hz, I will still get the subs to kick in on the towers below that range?
post #28197 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

I think this is the first time i have seen someone on this forum recommend i NOT spend more money, haha. Thank you for that and you are probably right. In that case, would I utilize the LFE and speaker wire on the 8060 towers? That way, if i set the crossover to 80Hz, I will still get the subs to kick in on the towers below that range?

Try it both ways and see what is more pleasing to the ears. From what I understand the built in subs are best used as mid bass subs (40-80Hz) and not really for bass below 30Hz if you use the LFE input you'll be sending everything below your set crossover to the towers and external sub. Your external sub will be able to handle the bass way better than the built in subs in the towers. But as mentions your results may vary. I have the BP7001's which have way better sub response than the 8060's and I would never send them a full range signal as the bass from the towers becomes muddy sounding as compared to the tight well controlled bass when I set the speakers to small with a 40Hz crossover.

Jlpowell to get bass from the towers and sub both you need to set your receiver not to "Full Band" but "Full Band Plus" if you set to Full your towers will get the full signal and send nothing from the front speakers to the sub. But on Full Band Plus it will send whatever bass your sending to the mains also to your sub.
post #28198 of 30965
One thing I'm not sure about is...I read that, for audyssey, it's ok to raise the crossover setting but not lower it. Thoughts? I know some of you said you have Pioneer receivers. Perhaps setting it to full band is ok.
post #28199 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post

Try it both ways and see what is more pleasing to the ears. From what I understand the built in subs are best used as mid bass subs (40-80Hz) and not really for bass below 30Hz if you use the LFE input you'll be sending everything below your set crossover to the towers and external sub. Your external sub will be able to handle the bass way better than the built in subs in the towers. But as mentions your results may vary. I have the BP7001's which have way better sub response than the 8060's and I would never send them a full range signal as the bass from the towers becomes muddy sounding as compared to the tight well controlled bass when I set the speakers to small with a 40Hz crossover.

Jlpowell to get bass from the towers and sub both you need to set your receiver not to "Full Band" but "Full Band Plus" if you set to Full your towers will get the full signal and send nothing from the front speakers to the sub. But on Full Band Plus it will send whatever bass your sending to the mains also to your sub.

So if i don't get an external sub right away and see if i like the bass from the towers, what is the best way to do this 5.1 setup? Do i not use LFE? For example:

8060 fronts: Set to Large, no LFE only use L/R speaker wire
8040 center: Small
8040 surrounds: small
Pioneer 1222k: set cross over to 80Hz?

In order to get that mid (40Hz - 80Hz) out of the towers, would I need to use the LFE but risk the bass becoming muddy when it tries to handle 20-30?
post #28200 of 30965
Quote:
Jlpowell to get bass from the towers and sub both you need to set your receiver not to "Full Band" but "Full Band Plus" if you set to Full your towers will get the full signal and send nothing from the front speakers to the sub. But on Full Band Plus it will send whatever bass your sending to the mains also to your sub.

Well right now I the 8060's set to full band and it's definitely sending to the sub. I have the speakers connected via speaker wire and my HSU VTF-15H connected via LFE. I tested out the opening scene on the 'Hurt Locker." The 15H was insane, almost too much. I don't have a logical answer for this but the towers mid's and tweeter's are playing louder since changing to full band. I did dial the gain knobs on the towers back to 11 o'clock. Any thoughts?
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