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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 948

post #28411 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I just did drywall screws in the keyhole. At first I thought they were too heavy for that but it holds fine.
Vibration over time may prove otherwise.
THIS is what I used...
post #28412 of 30965
Thanks, I didn't know if these were heavy duty enough. Glad they work for you, I actually have those so it would save me a trip
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Vibration over time may prove otherwise.
THIS is what I used...
post #28413 of 30965
Thanks, I didn't know if these were heavy duty enough. Glad they work for you, I actually have those so it would save me a trip
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Vibration over time may prove otherwise.
THIS is what I used...
post #28414 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I just did drywall screws in the keyhole. At first I thought they were too heavy for that but it holds fine.
There should be a weight limit on the drywall screw so just make sure you are within that limit. Personally I use the drywall screw that will hold more than the weight of the item to be doubly sure its going to hold.
post #28415 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerednai View Post

There should be a weight limit on the drywall screw so just make sure you are within that limit. Personally I use the drywall screw that will hold more than the weight of the item to be doubly sure its going to hold.

The weight holding capability of the screw is not the issue, it's the drywall. More grip area at the drywall will hold better, longer...
post #28416 of 30965
I would never use a drywall anchor to hang a speaker. There are other easy solutions. If the speakers are on the same wall, for example, fasten a nicely finished piece of wood trim, like a chair rail, across the whole wall, firmly screwed to studs. Then you can hang the speakers (and other, decorative things) from anywhere on the trim.

If I were forced to hang a speaker on drywall without a stud underneath, I'd use a molly bolt. I've seen those plastic anchors pull out of drywall many times.

JM2c
post #28417 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

I would never use a drywall anchor to hang a speaker. There are other easy solutions. If the speakers are on the same wall, for example, fasten a nicely finished piece of wood trim, like a chair rail, across the whole wall, firmly screwed to studs. Then you can hang the speakers (and other, decorative things) from anywhere on the trim.

If I were forced to hang a speaker on drywall without a stud underneath, I'd use a molly bolt. I've seen those plastic anchors pull out of drywall many times.

JM2c

I use toggle drywall screws. They screw right into the drywall without needing to pre-drill and, once in, flip down 90° to provide about 2.5" of flat surface behind the drywall. Each toggle is rated in excess of 100 pounds and I generally use 4 of them for my mounting. Of course, I doubt the drywall itself could hold that much. They ARE expensive though and usually run $8 to $10 for two toggles. A cheaper solution would be those metal ones that flip out to form wings once in the drywall. They are permanent though and cannot be retrieved and reused. The toggles can be easily removed by unscrewing and rotating 180° to get the toggle post straight. That would STILL be my last option if speaker placement couldn't land on a stud.
post #28418 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNaudioguy View Post

Thank you all for the great help! I finally got my 8040 surrounds in the mail today. Now i just need to have monoprice deliver my wire, etc. I should be up and running by some point next week. One thing I noticed is the 8040s didnt come with any mounting hardware. What are people using to mount theirs speakers? I saw one person use a toggle bolt. Is everyone making sure they mount it to a wall stud or are others using other mounting options?

One of my surrounds hit a stud, the other I used the heavy duty drywall anchor and a drywall screw. I have larger, more heavy surrounds that you and I have never had an issue with it. It is not going anywhere.
post #28419 of 30965
Curious DT owners. Studio Monitor 65 vs super towers (any 80 somethings or mythos). I have been doing a great deal of research on home theater in general. Most of it within sound quality and finding the best sound through speakers, receivers, external amplification, and of course the all important Audyssey calibration. I currently own a Denon 3313ci AVR, 8060 towers, 8040 center, 8040 surrounds, and pro monitor 1000's I actually just took down from their front height position. Also I own an HSU VTF-15H subwoofer. I have not yet come to a conclusion but rather thinking out loud. If one is not going to have a dedicated subwoofer then the powered towers are an obvious choice. If one is only going to have a 2 channel setup why would you not get the super towers? But with a setup like mine why do I have the super towers rather than the studio monitors? Would not the bigger midrange drivers provide a more even EQ line? and better sound? You learn as you go along...

I have also thought, no the towers are better. If I cross them over at 80hz then I have my 15H doing the heavy lifting down deep, the subs in the towers from 80hz to 150-200hz (I called DT to ask where the crossover is set and thats the answer I got, "I am not sure, somewhere between 150 and 200.") then the midranges, then the tweeters covering the whole sonic spectrum. why would this not be better than the 15H to the studio monitor mids then tweets?
post #28420 of 30965
JL I own Bp7001's and bought them strictly for the fact they had powered subs because my rooms shape created a tremendous null if I placed the sub up front the null was in back and vice versa. So I bought the 7001's to give me more bass up front and spent quite a bit of money. Looking back I should've bought the studio monitor 450's and two SVS NSD12's as my mains and saved a fortune and gotten better results.
post #28421 of 30965
Hello out there. i'm currently looking to update my center channel . what i have now is DEF TECH Procenter 1000. i have 2 in mind DT Procenter 2000 or DT mythos ten. which of these 2 center channel would go better my BP 7006 towers for front and promonitor 800 as sorrounds. this its been run with an onkyo Receiver T X- NR809 135 watts per channel. I know there's a huge deference in price but I just looking for the best match. Also if I go with mythos will the receiver run it just fine? any advice would be highly appreciated . Thanks
post #28422 of 30965
Hello out there. i'm currently looking to update my center channel . what i have now is DEF TECH Procenter 1000. i have 2 in mind DT Procenter 2000 or DT mythos ten. which of these 2 center channel would go better my BP 7006 towers for front and promonitor 800 as sorrounds. this its been run with an onkyo Receiver T X- NR809 135 watts per channel. I know there's a huge deference in price but I just looking for the best match. Also if I go with mythos will the receiver run it just fine? any advice would be highly appreciated . Thanks
post #28423 of 30965
ST-8060, CS-8040HD are large according to Definitive Technology...

With all due respect to the many knowledgable forum members here, I think that I found the definitive (no pun intended) answer to the often posed question, "Do I set them to large or small?"

Back in August, 2012, I started migrating my Denon 1910/Klipsch/SVS PB12 Plus setup in my dedicated home theater over to a full Definitive Technology 8040 setup keeping the SVS PB12 Plus. As much as I liked the Klipsch all these years, the Def Techs are even better. I am speaking in terms of home theater. I am sure that they do fine for music, but might not necessarily be the best for music—can’t say—don’t care.

I have been reading comments in the Definitive Technology owner’s thread all the way from the beginning regarding setup of these speakers. I have also run down and read every single review that I can find about the 8080, 8060, 8040, and even the 8020 series of speakers.

It seems that within this forum, the recommendation almost universally is to run the fronts, center, and surrounds on “small” whether using Audyssey or doing a manual setup.

I now believe that is an error whether run with a subwoofer or not.

I had followed that convention using a manual setup, not Audyssey. No matter how I tweaked it, I found it lacking somehow—sort of the middle spectrum of sound not being quite all there...

In the past couple of days, I found a video on Crutchfield from September 29, 2010. It is a presentation of the new (at that time) Bipolar Power Tower series by Michael Lang, a Definitive Technology trainer and regional manager. He was showing and discussing the ST-8060BP, CS-8040HD, and SR-8040BP. I transcribed the portion of it below...talking specifically about the CS-8040HD...the underlining is mine.

“Most people will acknowledge that the center channel speaker is the most important speaker in any home theater setup. Anywhere from 50 to maybe as much as 80 percent of the information can go through this. It is not just a dialogue speaker. So, you want to have the same kind of dynamics and clarity and output that you do with a main speaker like this [he gestures to the ST8060BP that is beside him in the video].

When you have to set a speaker on a ‘small’ [he makes quotation marks in the air] setting because they have small drivers that’s a challenge in getting that performance level up to where you want it to be.

So, we do a couple of different things. Besides our driver quality components and building good cabinets, we have also put some drivers in the top. In the case of this one [gestures to the CS-8040HD], it is not an active driver that is powered, but is a big high-mass passive bass radiator that gives us the ability to set this on a large setting so you get all of the dynamics and power that you need to get out of that center.

We have two models above this that use a powered woofer in the top of the product that exaggerate that effect even further. The bottom line benefit is you get a full-range center channel experience that can keep up dynamically with big loudspeakers like this [gestures again to the ST8060BP beside him] in any presentation.”

That is about as close to being “...straight from the horse’s mouth...” as I expect to find.

My fronts and center are now set to “large”. My surrounds are still set to small. I am happy now.
post #28424 of 30965
Does anyone have a good recommendation on good in-ceiling rear surrounds to go with Mythos XTR-50s up front? I was looking at UIW RSS IIIs, but wonder if just an aimable single-pole speaker would be better.
post #28425 of 30965
Dvdwilly using two 5.25" drivers with a passive radiator is in no way going to get you sub 60Hz bass without adding a lot of distortion. The passive radiator at best should be treated as a port plug and not a separate driver. It's still just using the two drivers to get you mid bass and even then not great depths at mid bass. Even though the techs at DefTech claim my BP7001's can achieve 18Hz that's in an enclosed acoustic chamber with a high sensitive microphone picking up a signal the human ear can't hear. Real world testing puts the powered 1500 watt 10" driver at 27Hz before dropping like a anvil. I've tried my 7001's as Large and the bass response was bloated and muddy sounding and introduced distortion yet set to small and crossed at 40hz sounded tight and well controlled. My 7001's btw have far better bass response than the 8060's can ever achieve.

Personally I would rather have my speakers set to play tight and loud without straining the drivers harder than they can handle. An outboard sub is designed to handle extreme low frequencies without issue as compared to a way smaller driver or in the centers case two 5.25" drivers and a passive radiator. But if wanting your drivers to be pushed harder than they are designed for and you want to set to Large than by all means knock yourself out but even those who own the LCR3000 with the powered 150 watt 10" driver are smart enough to set to small with a 40 or even 60Hz crossover.

I have a separate Prosub1000 hooked up to my LCR2002 and even I won't set to Large as my Prosub with its 300 watt amp 10" driver and 10" passive radiator is only good to 37Hz so why strain the sub by asking it to produce 20-37Hz frequencies it can't handle and overdrive my sub. I set to small and cross to 40Hz knowing full well that the sub can handle those frequencies easily and then let my SVS sub handle anything below 40Hz.
post #28426 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post

Dvdwilly using two 5.25" drivers with a passive radiator is in no way going to get you sub 60Hz bass without adding a lot of distortion. The passive radiator at best should be treated as a port plug and not a separate driver. It's still just using the two drivers to get you mid bass and even then not great depths at mid bass. Even though the techs at DefTech claim my BP7001's can achieve 18Hz that's in an enclosed acoustic chamber with a high sensitive microphone picking up a signal the human ear can't hear. Real world testing puts the powered 1500 watt 10" driver at 27Hz before dropping like a anvil. I've tried my 7001's as Large and the bass response was bloated and muddy sounding and introduced distortion yet set to small and crossed at 40hz sounded tight and well controlled. My 7001's btw have far better bass response than the 8060's can ever achieve.

Personally I would rather have my speakers set to play tight and loud without straining the drivers harder than they can handle. An outboard sub is designed to handle extreme low frequencies without issue as compared to a way smaller driver or in the centers case two 5.25" drivers and a passive radiator. But if wanting your drivers to be pushed harder than they are designed for and you want to set to Large than by all means knock yourself out but even those who own the LCR3000 with the powered 150 watt 10" driver are smart enough to set to small with a 40 or even 60Hz crossover.

I have a separate Prosub1000 hooked up to my LCR2002 and even I won't set to Large as my Prosub with its 300 watt amp 10" driver and 10" passive radiator is only good to 37Hz so why strain the sub by asking it to produce 20-37Hz frequencies it can't handle and overdrive my sub. I set to small and cross to 40Hz knowing full well that the sub can handle those frequencies easily and then let my SVS sub handle anything below 40Hz.
Have you listened or tested the 8060-st's?
post #28427 of 30965
I'm interested to see the subject of speaker 'size' and crossover settings coming up as I recently upgraded my Harman Kardon HKTS-15 5.1 HTIB Front/Center channels (3.5" driver 1/2" tweeter in the satellites, Dual 3.5" Driver 1/2" tweeter in the center) with a ProCenter 2000 and 2x SM350 bookshelf speakers.

The HK stuff was all set to 100hz Crossover by my Harman Kardon AVR 247 EzSet EQ a while back. Plugged in the DefTech speakers expecting a huge difference and was kind of underwhelmed. I remembered to changed the crossover settings down to the recommended by DefTech (not THX) to 60hz and notice slightly tighter midrange.

My whole goal was to make it so I did less volume management while watching movies - raising the volume to hear the dialogue, then turning it back down when action scenes would happen. I have a 3year old so the only time I really get to watch 'daddy movies' is when he's asleep upstairs.

After doing some research I came across articles like this one:

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/

It seems like the speakers aren't to fault - it's due to the way a 5.1 system works, the theory is to let the sub handle the bass and everything else goes out to the other 5 speakers. Kind of a bummer and makes me wonder why people buy huge speakers if you're going to have a sub - unless you plan to do the 2 channel stereo thing and listen to only the two speakers.

I've listened to my SM350s in 2channel stereo and they do sound better by themselves than the old 3.5" driver HKS9 satellites I had, but if you turn the sub back on it's honestly hard to hear a difference. The speakers are getting broken in a bit now - have had them for a couple of weeks.

Not faulting the DefTech speakers at all. They sound very good for what they are. My old cheap 6.5" driver Aiwas out in the garage have a lot more bass - maybe a little boomy and not necessarily as good of highs, but they're 20 year old cheapies that have survived 4 moves and a flooded NYC basement. smile.gif

My original dialogue problem isn't really solved - I've tried changing distance settings etc. The center dialogue sound isn't as 'harsh' when certain things like gunshots happen. But I still have to turn it up and down depending on the scene. Maybe I'm just getting old and deaf. smile.gif

I've tried setting my crossovers to 80hz but it got closer to the sound of my original system. Put it at 100hz and it sounded a lot like my old HKTS system. If I did that I'd just sell the new ones and put my old speakers back in place.

I guess I'm curious as to why people would spend a bunch of money to get huge speakers when running a 5.1 or 5.2 or 7.1/7.2 system. If you're just going to toss out the ability to play those lower frequencies to a sub, why even bother? Just get a sub(s) and small satellites, right? I guess that's why the surround sound systems are so popular?

Sure am glad I didn't go on a shopping spree. I was about to get some floor standing speakers with larger drivers/subs. Unless the mid range is that much better I think I would have supposedly set them to small crossover set to 60 (or 80 if following THX recommendation), then just had drivers sitting in a floor standing speaker barely doing anything while the sub in the corner does all the work. confused.gif

Again not faulting DefTech. It's just the way surround sound systems work. Just wish I would have read up on it a bit more before purchasing.

Maybe I need to find some time and try to do some A/B testing. Perhaps there's a more drastic difference than I remember.
Edited by boondongle - 2/8/13 at 4:55pm
post #28428 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by web05hitz View Post

Does anyone have a good recommendation on good in-ceiling rear surrounds to go with Mythos XTR-50s up front? I was looking at UIW RSS IIIs, but wonder if just an aimable single-pole speaker would be better.

I'm using UIW RSS IIs as surrounds with 8080s up front. The in-ceilings are excellent.
post #28429 of 30965
Quote:
It seems that within this forum, the recommendation almost universally is to run the fronts, center, and surrounds on “small” whether using Audyssey or doing a manual setup.

Setting a speaker to small doesn't mean your AVR thinks its small. Nor does it magically somehow send a 'smaller' sound to the speaker. All this means is that the AVR will will not try and send the full sonic spectrum of 20hz-20,000hz to that speaker and will send above what the crossover is set at. If you set the crossover at 80hz on your center then the 100hz sound will be exactly the same as if you had no crossover setting on it. Further if you have your speaker set to large, full band, full range or whatever your AVR calls it then your low bass frequencies will be divided and sent out to the sub and whatever speakers are set to large. Why would you do this if the sub is built for these exact low frequencies? Furthermore your comments reveal that you really don't know how Audyssey actually works. The only way you would set your super towers to large is if you didn't have a dedicated subwoofer. My 8060 towers I think sound good at full range. But I have a HSU VTF-15H subwoofer that can rattle the windows. So I set them to small and crossover at 80hz.
Quote:
When you have to set a speaker on a ‘small’ [he makes quotation marks in the air] setting because they have small drivers that’s a challenge in getting that performance level up to where you want it to be.

This quote must be taken out of context because anyone that knows even the basics knows that setting a speaker to small changes absolutely nothing in the performance of that speaker. In fact you could set your center channel to large for scenario one. And also set it to small, scenario two, and cross it over at 20hz and get the exact same performance. Either way this speaker will go nowhere near 20hz. Even if you have a powered 8060 or 8080 center you wouldn't want to set it at 20 hz, they are not made to replicate those frequencies in an accurate manner. Besides the powered speakers with built in subs have built in crossovers that take all those low frequencies away from the midrange drivers and sent them to the subs. The best you could do to try and get these frequencies to the midrange drivers would be to use the Studio Monitors DT makes.
post #28430 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by web05hitz View Post

Does anyone have a good recommendation on good in-ceiling rear surrounds to go with Mythos XTR-50s up front? I was looking at UIW RSS IIIs, but wonder if just an aimable single-pole speaker would be better.

I have UIW RSS III's in the media room and Speakercraft AIM series monopole speakers upstairs in the family room and I find the Deftech speakers much more dynamic (clearer, better bass, better range) if that helps. I also strongly recommend buying a speaker that has an engineered enclosure.
post #28431 of 30965
Small vs Large argument per Harmon:
http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...ndRoomsPt3.pdf
Quote:
When a full-range signal is panned to each of the loudspeakers in turn, and measurements are made at the listening position, we find hugely different bass responses for each of the loudspeakers. The differences are as large as 40dB in this room, and the biggest ones are all at low frequencies. The reason, the woofers each have very different acoustical “coupling” to the room resonances because they are in different locations. This will be different for every different room. Again, referring back to the “circle of confusion” the bass that was heard in the control room will not be the same as that heard at home. It cannot be.

Attempting to improve the situation by panning the bass to pairs of loudspeakers changes things, but does not remove the problem. Anybody think that an “ideal” room can help this? An anechoic room would, but none of us would wish to live in one.

And this is why bass management and subwoofers make sense. Now we can place the woofers where they perform optimally for a specific room with a specific listening position. We can place the satellites (a term that seems inappropriate for some of the large capable loudspeakers that we use in the high-passed channels) where they need to be for directional and imaging effects. In other words, we design the low-frequency portion of the system separately because rooms force us to do so. This is the only way that we can get good bass in any room, and have any hope of having similarly good bass in different rooms. Remember about preserving the art?

Folks if you have a capable subwoofer, set your speakers to small and use proper bass management. Aside from the above, you are likely driving your speakers to distortion if you try to send low frequency bass to them, and you are certainly making your receiver work much harder and possibly having phase issues at the same time..

My Deftech speakers are rated to 22hz, and I have tried setting them to 40hz, 50hz, 60hz, etc. I have settled on 80hz as I have four capable 15" subwoofers in my room that can play flat to the low teens. I really like my Deftech speakers, but asking them to handle low frequency bass is too much..
post #28432 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Small vs Large argument per Harmon:
http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...ndRoomsPt3.pdf
Folks if you have a capable subwoofer, set your speakers to small and use proper bass management. Aside from the above, you are likely driving your speakers to distortion if you try to send low frequency bass to them, and you are certainly making your receiver work much harder and possibly having phase issues at the same time..

My Deftech speakers are rated to 22hz, and I have tried setting them to 40hz, 50hz, 60hz, etc. I have settled on 80hz as I have four capable 15" subwoofers in my room that can play flat to the low teens. I really like my Deftech speakers, but asking them to handle low frequency bass is too much..

Do you want to build me a sub? I will pay ya smile.gif I am jealous of your 4 DIYs!
post #28433 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by boondongle View Post

I'm interested to see the subject of speaker 'size' and crossover settings coming up as I recently upgraded my Harman Kardon HKTS-15 5.1 HTIB Front/Center channels (3.5" driver 1/2" tweeter in the satellites, Dual 3.5" Driver 1/2" tweeter in the center) with a ProCenter 2000 and 2x SM350 bookshelf speakers.

The HK stuff was all set to 100hz Crossover by my Harman Kardon AVR 247 EzSet EQ a while back. Plugged in the DefTech speakers expecting a huge difference and was kind of underwhelmed. I remembered to changed the crossover settings down to the recommended by DefTech (not THX) to 60hz and notice slightly tighter midrange.

My whole goal was to make it so I did less volume management while watching movies - raising the volume to hear the dialogue, then turning it back down when action scenes would happen. I have a 3year old so the only time I really get to watch 'daddy movies' is when he's asleep upstairs.

After doing some research I came across articles like this one:

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/

It seems like the speakers aren't to fault - it's due to the way a 5.1 system works, the theory is to let the sub handle the bass and everything else goes out to the other 5 speakers. Kind of a bummer and makes me wonder why people buy huge speakers if you're going to have a sub - unless you plan to do the 2 channel stereo thing and listen to only the two speakers.

I've listened to my SM350s in 2channel stereo and they do sound better by themselves than the old 3.5" driver HKS9 satellites I had, but if you turn the sub back on it's honestly hard to hear a difference. The speakers are getting broken in a bit now - have had them for a couple of weeks.

Not faulting the DefTech speakers at all. They sound very good for what they are. My old cheap 6.5" driver Aiwas out in the garage have a lot more bass - maybe a little boomy and not necessarily as good of highs, but they're 20 year old cheapies that have survived 4 moves and a flooded NYC basement. smile.gif

My original dialogue problem isn't really solved - I've tried changing distance settings etc. The center dialogue sound isn't as 'harsh' when certain things like gunshots happen. But I still have to turn it up and down depending on the scene. Maybe I'm just getting old and deaf. smile.gif

I've tried setting my crossovers to 80hz but it got closer to the sound of my original system. Put it at 100hz and it sounded a lot like my old HKTS system. If I did that I'd just sell the new ones and put my old speakers back in place.

I guess I'm curious as to why people would spend a bunch of money to get huge speakers when running a 5.1 or 5.2 or 7.1/7.2 system. If you're just going to toss out the ability to play those lower frequencies to a sub, why even bother? Just get a sub(s) and small satellites, right? I guess that's why the surround sound systems are so popular?

Sure am glad I didn't go on a shopping spree. I was about to get some floor standing speakers with larger drivers/subs. Unless the mid range is that much better I think I would have supposedly set them to small crossover set to 60 (or 80 if following THX recommendation), then just had drivers sitting in a floor standing speaker barely doing anything while the sub in the corner does all the work. confused.gif

Again not faulting DefTech. It's just the way surround sound systems work. Just wish I would have read up on it a bit more before purchasing.

Maybe I need to find some time and try to do some A/B testing. Perhaps there's a more drastic difference than I remember.


Boondongle the reason for towers is obviously lower bass extension that bookshelves can't handle. In my case because of my null voids and placement of my SVS I needed the assistance of the powered towers to help fill those null voids. Also in my case when listening to stereo music my mains are automatically set to Large and the sub is shut off unless I manually go to the receiver and adjust the sound to use the sub and smaller crossover but in most cases I just want music in stereo and not surround sound using the sub. There are benefits to using towers and also to using bookshelves and a sub. It's dependent on what works for you and your room.
post #28434 of 30965
Quote:
My original dialogue problem isn't really solved - I've tried changing distance settings etc. The center dialogue sound isn't as 'harsh' when certain things like gunshots happen. But I still have to turn it up and down depending on the scene. Maybe I'm just getting old and deaf.

What AVR do you have? My Denon can turn dialogue up or down. it does make a drastic difference.
post #28435 of 30965
^also you can get Audyssey with Denon. Its like having a turbo charged motor capable of great power and boost. But none of this will happen without a proper tune to the engine computer management system. The tune is important.
post #28436 of 30965
I have a Harman Kardon AVR 247. Works ok. smile.gif

It's only rated at 50w per channel but with very low distortion. Considering I rarely get the chance to really open it up the power is good enough. For now. I've tried turning the center channel up and that sort of works but the overall seems out of balance. My Sub is set for LFE. I get plenty of non directional bass. My rear surrounds are still set to 100hz. I've got the left rear set to 4 feet, right rear to 3 ft (it's a little closer), front left/right at 9feet and center channel set to 10 feet (it's really only 8 feet away from the viewing position).

I was hoping a larger center would help. And it does a little. Not dramatically to my ears but somewhat.

He fronts are at +3, center at +4 (or 5), surrounds at +2, sub at 0. I vary these depending on source media.

I understand having large floorstanding speakers for 2 channel stereo. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but, for the 5.1 (and up) systems, it seems like everyone agrees all surrounds should generally be set to 80hz. If so, how much low end is a floor standing speaker with a powered sub going to output if it's set to crossover at 80hz? Is it less of a "hard cutoff" at 80hz and more of a gradual roll off of 80hz? So that way you can still take advantage of the low end abilities of those speakers?

I'm not an expert (obviously) so I'm really trying to understand.

And I have to say when I get the chance to really turn it up to around -15db or more the Def Techs do sound. much better than the satellites they replaced. Just have to turn em up to get there. Not so cool for Daddy time at night. smile.gif

Thanks,
The village idiot
Edited by boondongle - 2/8/13 at 11:53pm
post #28437 of 30965
Quote:
I have a Harman Kardon AVR 247. Works ok.

It's only rated at 50w per channel but with very low distortion. Considering I rarely get the chance to really open it up the power is good enough. For now. I've tried turning the center channel up and that sort of works but the overall seems out of balance. My Sub is set for LFE. I get plenty of non directional bass. My rear surrounds are still set to 100hz. I've got the left rear set to 4 feet, right rear to 3 ft (it's a little closer), front left/right at 9feet and center channel set to 10 feet (it's really only 8 feet away from the viewing position).

I was hoping a larger center would help. And it does a little. Not dramatically to my ears but somewhat.

He fronts are at +3, center at +4 (or 5), surrounds at +2, sub at 0. I vary these depending on source media.

I understand having large floorstanding speakers for 2 channel stereo. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but, for the 5.1 (and up) systems, it seems like everyone agrees all surrounds should generally be set to 80hz. If so, how much low end is a floor standing speaker with a powered sub going to output if it's set to crossover at 80hz? Is it less of a "hard cutoff" at 80hz and more of a gradual roll off of 80hz? So that way you can still take advantage of the low end abilities of those speakers?

I'm not an expert (obviously) so I'm really trying to understand.

And I have to say when I get the chance to really turn it up to around -15db or more the Def Techs do sound. much better than the satellites they replaced. Just have to turn em up to get there. Not so cool for Daddy time at night.

Thanks,
The village idiot

Don't feel inadequate. We all have to learn and are all somewhere on the spectrum of what we have learned. I am somewhat new in my learning process but I have spent a ridiculous amount of time learning a few topics on this forum. I have the 8060 towers and a dedicated sub. Also 8040 center, 8040 rears. If it's rated at 50w a channel thats at 2 channels driven. For example my Denon 3313 is rated at 125 a channel with 2 channels driven. But it gets about 80 a channel with seven driven. I am going to add an emotiva amp next month for even more power. I just honestly became a believer in Audyssey after learning about it and how it works. And when testing it out it does sound good. I will post a link for the quick audyssey tour for you. I cross my towers at 80hz. They have a built in crossover around 150-200. So essentially your tower subs will act at midbass subs from 80-150ish if you cross them at 80, set them to small and have a dedicated sub. This is fine. A true subwoofer has three main points. the enclosure, woofer size and amplification. Ideally a decent size enclosure (a small mini fridge size), bigger woofer (mine is 15inch) and decent amp power is what makes good clean undistorted bass. My sub can make the windows rattle literally and I can't even tell it's moving sometimes if I take the grill off!

You may be getting a bad EQ line that dips and spikes. Ideally flat and smooth is good. this can be how the sound interacts with your room. Check out Audyssey tour. Some say the powered towers and Audyssey don't work together very good but I have it going just fine.

http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/tour
post #28438 of 30965
It's ironic how many "large"', "small", sub, no sub, RCA cable, speaker cable only, 120,100, 80, 60, 40 Hz discussions we have on the DT forum. 😄 In very similar situations and configurations there is bound to be some factual right and wrongs answers/settings. But for most it truly just comes down to the room, equipment and playing around until you find what works best for your ears/listening preference.

I purchased my first pair of DTs (the original BP10s) in the early 90s. Purchased another pair of 10b's along with a pair of BP2000s, a CLR2000 and a pair of BP2Xs in 97 - configured my first 7.2 setup in a dedicated theater/family room. I've owned / configured several powered DT towers, BP30s etc in my theater rooms over the years and always preferred it over small speakers / dedicated sub(s). JMHO of course. One of the main things I have liked with the powered DT towers is they provide options that allow me to configure/connect them in ways other speakers don't. Some may dislike or critique my configuration and given the many discussions and options one can respect their thoughts/opinions, but at the end of the day (or better yet when I put down my iPad/DT forum) it's just me and the family that needs to like what we have. The options and applicable settings are not limitless folks, play around and deside what sounds best to you within your space. It is truly part of the fun/hobby. 😄

I still own my original BP2000s (sold all the other towers - one only has so much storage 😢). The wife actually allowed me to place them in the large living room on either side of our large built in and 60 inch Panny. Above the TV rests a hidden CLR2000. Far to the side/rear are BP2Xs. 16 years later and they still look and sound new. The theater room has 4 BP7000s, CLR3000, a pair of UIW75s and 4 BP2Xs for wide/height effects in a 11.2 setup.
Currently I do utilize all 4 of the 7000s 14 inch powered drivers as dedicated subs via RCA, 2 left and 2 right config. This is a modest dedicated theater thus music listening is extremely rare etc. I've played around much but settled on a "small" setting for all speakers, I believe 80Hz for all with exception to the center which is speaker wire only and 40Hz. I have been trying to get myself to build a pair of Rythmiks and probably will this summer at which time they will utilize the left, right LFE/RCAs and the towers will go speaker wire only, stay "small", yet 40Hz. It will be overkill yet I do like building and playing while enjoying this hobby.

You guys/gals enjoy your DTs. They are some of the best speakers for the money. And I can personally vouch for their / "the" best customer service that hasn't waivered in the 19/20 years that I have been a DT owner!

Sorry for my Sat morning rambling.... Time for some coffee. 😄

Cheers
post #28439 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensignlee View Post

New member here.

Got two Definitive Studio Monitor 65's used from an ex-Magnolia employee who is here at avsforum for $650 including Sanus stands, and then picked up a Definitive Supercube I for another $500. Paired it up with a Denon 890/2310 . Sounds good to me so far. biggrin.gif

I don't seem to notice the difference between using Audyssey and not, but maybe that's just me being dumb? :?

Thinking of going to a 3.1 . Any recommended center speakers? Was thinking the ProCenter 2000 but it's a little too tall and would slightly obstruct my view of the television. Maybe a Definitive Mythos 7?

Anybody?
post #28440 of 30965
Thanks JL. No inadequacy feelings. At least not in regards to speaker size. smile.gif

Just a little confusion about the benefits of having speakers able to output low frequencies, then hamstringing them by disabling their abilities to create those low frequencies by setting them to crossover at 80hz. But there must be a good reason for it because people keep doing it. smile.gif

I double checked my AVR and it's 65W x 2 and 50x7 at 0.07% distortion - not much different that I thought but slightly. I like Denon receivers. My previous receiver was a Denon - still have it out in the garage. A co-worker just picked up the Denon 2113. They're very nice. I was tempted to get a new AVR - one with HDMI 1.4a, standby passthrough, and DTS-MA etc. Some newer features. - since mine only has HDMI 1.3, DTS, etc.

But I decided to upgrade speakers a little first. My logic was something like - I could get a new AVR, but I'd still be speaker limited - with small speakers, so try a new center and some bookshelves. I can always move the bookshelves to the rears down the road if I want larger fronts.

Have considered getting an amp but I rarely get a chance to turn it up. Either the family is watching their stuff or is asleep. I rarely get the house to myself anymore. smile.gif Woe is me. smile.gif

If nothing else it's fun to experiment. And, I agree 100% about DefTech customer service. I've only been a customer for a month or so now but have been very impressed in that regard.

Cheers,
-sb
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