Definitive Owners Thread - Page 96

just watched king kong today in hi def on HBO

at the very end when the planes were going after kong on the empire state building, that was such an awesome scene !!!!!!!!!

the planes were zipping around from speaker to speaker, this one time, one of the planes went from the front left channel to right rear and it sounded like it went right through my head, the panning of sound was just seamless and incredible

Not sure if you have seen the Audio Theory, setup and chat section, but the sticky threads at the top are awesome reads. Your setup sounds like it will be very nice for that size room. My side surrounds are 5'8" to the center, which puts them about 2ft above ear level. (I have a 6" riser). The rear surrounds are higher than the sides, tilted slightly inward and directed down. I am not using them anymore, and they were direct, rather than bi-poles. Let me know how the BPX's work in the rear position. Have you considered a sub, or are you going to let the 7002's handle the LFE and redirected bass from the BPX's?

sounds like you're going to have an incredible theater

you got all the tweeters and 5 1/4" mids matched up perfectly

some people tend to like the surrounds a bit higher.

my leather chairs are pretty low to the ground and my towers are pretty tall, when i turn around, i'm looking up at them and as far as surround sound goes, i like having all the tweeters on an equal plane, especially for multi-channel music

i used to have BP-10's as my surround speakers and i kept them up on little tables to get them up high enough but when i switched over to bp-2000's as my surrounds, i found that just keeping them on the floor was perfect

i guess it does come down to personal taste

5 feet would be too high for me on the surrounds but someone else might enjoy them up that high

ok, this is scary bakpakva, we both responded to the same post at 7:36

you know what, now that i think about it, 5 feet wouldn't be all that high for the BPX's

it sounds just about right

for some reason, i was thinking 5 feet was a lot taller than it is

King Kong was super in HD, but man did it drag on for me. I wish they would have cut out about 45 minutes. It was just too long! I got the HD DVD with the 360 add-on and only managed to get through it once by myself, and once with a group of friends. It makes good demo material, but it is torturous for me to sit through again.

I watched parts of "War of the Worlds" this afternoon and that movie has some of the lowest bass I have ever put through my system. I really have to fine tune the buttkickers when watching it, or else they will bottom out. We also watched "The Warriors" which was a decent flick for its day. (1979). The LCR blended nicely in this dialog intensive movie. Not much in the way of surrounds, but the music was good.

At this point I am going to have the 7002s handel the LFE bass. I will test it and see how it sounds. Most sales people say I wont need a separate sub. If I need more bass I will get a separate sub later. Anyone think I will need a separate sub? What is the best way to set up these speakers large or small? I was thinking of setting them all to large. Any suggestions?

king kong is very long, i've still not seen the whole movie straight through, LOL

war of the worlds is talked about a lot in the subwoofer forum

the lightning scene has some serious LFE going on, very very low frequencies and then right after that scene when the aliens come up out of the ground, some sick LFE

link to the war of the worlds thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=813514

At least for me, the best thing was to try a lot of different options for the settings, and see what you like best. You can always add on later if you need to. A lot of it is personal preference, and the type of movies that you like to watch. I tend to get wrapped up in the high explosion type movies, and not so much for drama's. I don't think anyone can tell you that you really need one, although I know I need a few and even that isn't enough.

I did update my blog pictures to give you an idea of how high the surrounds are when mounted to the wall. It is very hard to even see my front speakers which makes it tough to photograph, but excellent when viewing a movie. Never mind the lack of cable management, as I am still moving things around. I will tiddy that up when everything is in place in another year or so....

The BPX's alway show up as SMALL with a cross-over of 80 Hz when I use auto equalization on my receiver. Since anything below 80 Hz should be non-directional for the most part, you should be able to set them to small and redirect frequencies lower than 80 Hz to the 7002's. You can try them set to LARGE but I think you will loose some of the bass. The 2002's are rated to 30 Hz, so it could go either way, but I would try LARGE first to see how you like it. I notice a lack of bass in the center the easiest when listening to dialog. Do the male voices sound full or are they shallow? Switch between large and small and see if the voices change. You may notice that voices are more intelligible on one setting or the other. What amp/receiver are you using to drive the system? Depending on how much control you have over the speaker sizes, delays, and trims, you can fiddle as much as you like until you find out what you like best.

What center speaker are you using? I have been torn between the 2002 and the 2500. The only difference I see is a sub on the 2500 extending the bass just 11 more Hz. I'm not to sure about having a sub in my center speaker.


At this point I have a Sony 555ES. I am going to be upgrading my system as soon as the new receivers come out with 1.3 switching and the new HD lossess support. Any suggestions? I have looked at the new Onkyos. I have read about the new Denons but they have not reached store shelves. I have listened to my setup at the store threw a Sony 5200ES. It sounded great. Plenty of bass for me just threw the 7002s even without the LFE plugged in. I can just imagine how it will sound with it plugged in.

At this point I have a Sony 555ES. I am going to be upgrading my system as soon as the new receivers come out with 1.3 switching and the new HD lossess support. Any suggestions? I have looked at the new Onkyos. I have read about the new Denons but they have not reached store shelves. I have listened to my setup at the store threw a Sony 5200ES. It sounded great. Plenty of bass for me just threw the 7002s even without the LFE plugged in. I can just imagine how it will sound with it plugged in.[/quote]

I will be getting my onkyo ts-xr 805 tomorrow. I will report back after I have had a chance to set it up and let it run. I have heard the denons will cost a lot more. btw you will not get more bass from your 7002's with lfe plugged in.

Someone that has done a side by side of the 2002 and the 2500 will have to comment on the actual differences, as the spec's from most companies are a tad exaggerated. The main thing is that it sounded great to you. Personally I would wait until you have everything set up in your house before starting to add things on. I have a hard time comparing speakers in a store, as they usually don't have them set up properly (heights, spacing, trims, etc).

After you have your system set up, and have calibrated everything the way you like it, then you can make a determination as to what additional equipment may give you the biggest improvement. I think your 7002's will do a fine job of handling the bass for the center and surrounds for your room size, just make sure you balance everything once the speakers are in place.

Your approach to wait a while on the new receiver is also wise. They still have a few bugs to work out on the HDMI 1.3 interface. You are going to enjoy the new speakers, so unless you want to be on the bleeding edge and are willing to work through the issues of receiver and sources, it is best to wait a while. Check out the threads for receivers you are interested in, and find posts by people that have similar setups that you have.

For now, I am sticking to analog or digital (coax or optical) until things shake out a bit.

War of the Worlds was unwatchable at my standard listening levels without my bass traps. After only a couple of days of them being gone, I had to do something about the standing waves and bass reflection in my theater. Today I stuffed a couple of the rock wool panels in large black garbage bags and sat them in the back of the room. After recalibration, the bass was much better. I will have to build new ones sometime when I am ready for the mess and itchiness.

After they were back in place, everything evened out again and I could watch the movie. Without them, the bass was so boomy and muddy, and the occasional standing wave made the whole room shake. I am definitely a believer in room treatments now after that little experiment. I think that adding the CLR-3000, the extra sub in the rear, really exaggerated the issue. With the bass traps in place, there was almost a 6 dB attenuation compared to without.

This little experiment makes me a bit cautious in giving advice to how a system will sound in someone else's theater, or if they need an extra sub, etc, etc. I definitely will not go back to a trap-less room, and in fact I am thinking of putting up a few more since I like the effects so much.

So I got a new TV stand that's a little bigger, including depth. Finally my wife is letting me set up my BP10b fronts at an appropriate distance from the wall (she hated it when I tried to move them forward of the TV stand). It is amazing how much smoother the response is across the spectrum now. I had them set up as best as I could given the WAF, but I was still getting a lot of blooming at around 60hz. I finally set up the crossover at 80hz rather than run them full, which helped, but now I can run the fronts full with the sub (double bass setting on my Onkyo receiver).

Also, a question. I have a CLR 2300, since it was the only one that could fit in my previous stand. It's response has improved with the new stand, since now I have about 2" of clearance above. Ideally, I would get the CLR 3000 for a closer voice match to my BP10b's, but my shelves are only 8 1/4" high (I couldn't find any suitable stands with higher shelf height). Would I gain anything by upgrading to the CLR 2500 over my CLR 2300? Right now my speakers are level-matched, and with pans I don't hear a tone shift; it's pretty smooth panning from left to center to right. Any advice would be appreciated.

the front 3 channels are the most important to "timbre match"

your BP-10's have 6 1/2" mids, the CLR-2500 has 5 1/4, the CLR-2300 has 4 1/2

if you can't fit the CLR-3000, the CLR-2500 would be a closer match to the BP-10's

even better would be if you could get your hands on an old CLR-2000 or CLR-1000b (that is if you can't get the CLR-3000)

i'm a hard core believer is getting every single tweeter and mid to perfectly match in every channel

did you ever try no center?

point the BP-10's in toward your listening position and tell your receiver you have no center and it will create a "phantom" center. if your mains can image well which the BP-10's can, it will create a very nice "phantom center" channel

point the right BP-10 at your left ear and the left BP-10 at your right ear

give it a try, it's free !!!!!!!!!

i use my system like this all the time when it's just me watching

you may also wish to try a studio monitor 450

actually with the BP-10 which only has a single 6 1/2 mid front and back, the studio monitor 450 would be a perfect match to the BP-10 if you could run it vertical

i'm not sure if you can run the studio monitor's horizontal, i would email chet at def tech and ask him and tell him you have the BP-10's

i'm thinking now the studio monitor 450 would be an incredible match to the BP-10's

I find it odd that they don't make a non-powered version of the CLR-3000. Surely DT doesn't think everyone needs another powered sub if they have full range towers. Anyone know why they dropped the 1000 and 2000 models? If the center can reach 80Hz on the low end, then any other sub in your system should be able to take over from there.

Thanks for the response. I just e-mailed Chet to see what he thinks.

I have tried a phantom center with the BP10's, and it sounded okay, but I prefer a dedicated center channel speaker. Although, now that I've been able to move my speakers to a more ideal room position, I'll try phantom again and see if it's better.

I completely forgot about the CLR 2000. It would be a tight fit, but I think I could get it in the top shelf, and I wouldn't have to worry about a top-firing sub. I'll have to keep my eyes open to snag one

The StudioMonitor 450 would be a great match to the BP10b's, but you're right, it would have to be set vertically, and I don't have that option unfortunately.

I think my best option is the 2000. My wife is always yelling at me about the bass just from my BP10s and SuperCube, so the 3000 is not crucial from that perspective. But I would love to timbre match the front three.

If anybody hears of a CLR 2000 in black for sale, please PM me.

I have teh SM350's... Chet advised me to NOT run them horizontal.

i can't understand why def tech dropped a lot of their speakers

the BP-30's, the PowerMonitor 900's, the CLR-2000 & 1000

the CLR-2000 and CLR-1000b are pretty much the same speaker except that the CLR-2000 comes with the piano end caps and the famous black sock. the CLR-1000b is a basic box with a press-on front grill, also the 2000 can be bi-wired, the 1000b can't. They are almost the same size but i think the CLR-2000's box is a tiny bit larger which is why i guess they rated it with a slightly lower frequency response. I own both and don't hear much of a difference. I've actually used the 2000 and 1000b as a stereo pair for a while in my den

just a note and i've posted this before, the CLR-1000 has the first generation tweeter, the CLR-1000b has the new one

i was thinking the same thing. now that you moved your BP-10's out, they will definitely image better

removing the end caps on the CLR-2000 might help it fit better

thanks steve

i would never do that anyway, i don't even like running my CLR's horizontal

i'm dying to set up a system with 5 sm-450's and a sub or 2

i'm also dying to try one out as a vertical center

Anyone go from the 1000 center to a 2000? Is it that much better? Also what are you using to mount your center in place?

hi there--

I am trading in my towers and looking at the Def Tech Mythos solo XL. Has anyone had any experience with this speaker? Do you still get good separation between L/C/R? How is the sound? I love the Def Tech sound and hope they capture this in the single enclosure L/C/R speaker. My plasma will be a wall mounted 50" and the Solo XL will run the entire width of the TV.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

I have the 3000, which is much heavier than the 1000 or 2000. I used a table from Ikea that is 18" high, 24" wide, and 24" deep to set the center on. I covered the table with cheap black velvet curtain material that I picked up at Value City. It blends in well with the wall and speaker so that you don't notice it is even there with the lights out. It just looks like one big speaker.

Okay, how does this solution to my center channel space quandary sound? I measured my new stand, and the top shelf is precisely 8 1/4" high, and both the CLR 2000 and 3000 are 8 5/16" high. So I've now decided to go with a CLR 2500 to replace my 2300, and then eventually replace my BP10b's with BP7002's. Since I already have the BPX surrounds, this would give me 5 1/2" drivers all around. Is this probably the best solution? I'm really pleased with my BP10's; how do the BP7002's compare? I have no doubt that I'll be happy with an upgrade of my CLR 2300 from what I've read. Does this sound like the best option for me, given my space constraints?

Sounds like a good plan to me. Most agree that matching mids all the way around is the best way to go. I think that it is more important in the LCR and it is less noticeable in the surrounds. You definitely do not want the center to be tight in the shelf, otherwise the speaker will couple with the stand which would not be a good thing. The 3000 has a top firing sub, so it has to have room above it, and room behind for the port.

Is there a store around you that allows for in-home trials? A side by side comparison in your own room would be the best to decide if the upgrade to the 7002's are worth it. You can always try just upgrading the center for a few weeks and see how that sounds to you and upgrade the mains later.

Yeah, that was my plan last night, to do the center first then the mains. However, I was perusing audiogon this morning (I need to stop doing that), and there's a pair of 7002's for $1199 shipped, which is a very good deal. I've got to start exercising some self-control. I really am still happy with my sound, so I don't need to upgrade TODAY! (repeat to self until urge to upgrade subsides....)

Yep, I know all about those urges. If you buy things a little at a time, you get to have something "new" more times than if you buy it all at once. You might decide that it isn't worth the upgrade to the 7002's after you hear the new center. If you do change your mind, you are still good to go with the 2500 as your center.