or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Definitive Owners Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Definitive Owners Thread - Page 954

post #28591 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I would like to pose a question for all of the Def Tech gurus out there...


How should room treatments be implemented with regards to using Def Tech bipolar speakers in a theater room? I do of course know that you should never use absorb panels on the front wall behind a bipolar speaker, but being that the whole point of using bipolar speakers is to bounce the sound waves off the room boundries, should any absorbt panels be used at all? Are the first reflection points ideal for this? Have any of you guys ever measured a pair of Def Tech bipolars? I woulds imagine that they would measure horrible. It just seems to me that the benefits to using Def Tech bi-poles are to get that emerging, deep sound stage that is commonly associated with these due to their bi-polar nature, and that using room treatments is a delicate task in trying not to mess with the emergence factor of the speakers. No one buys these speakers for their clarity, or detail, or even their mid-range lushness, or lack there of. NO! What people buy these speakers for is that great home theater bass feeling and the emergence factor that puts you right there in the middle of the action!

I would like to hear some more opinions from you guys on how yall feel about these things.



Marty

Martycool, interesting! I am approaching the same task as I finish converting my "listening basement" to a true theater room. AND I am flying blind as I too have decided not to do any measurements for now. We really should buy an omnimic, but from everything I have been reading on the internet extensive corner/room bass trapping will be nothing but beneficial. Since this may take away some of the bi-polarness, (by putting broadband absorbers in the front corners behind bi-polar speakers) I have found a company that builds a scatter board in front of the trap to help maintain the higher frequency air in the room.

Here is a fantastic article on acoustic treatments that has helped me a ton....http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Here is what I am looking at for the corners....http://gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-tri-trap/ (with the built in scatter board for some of them) and for some of the other areas of the room....http://gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-monster-bass-trap/ They seem reasonably priced and have the option of adding the built-in diffusers so that (hopefully) they will not diminish the "bi-polarness" of the front image. I plan on being as generous as I can afford with the broadband bass traps around the room.

I have also looked at Auralex (just decided I didn't like the look of the foam and have read that it may not be as effective as the alternatives) and have also looked at DIY Owens Corning 703 or 705 fiber boards.

Because I am in the middle of buying carpet, and hopefully a projector and screen I may not get to go as nuts as I want. I have a feeling carpet my negate my need for acoustic panels for the mid and high frequency control but this may not be the case. I may just do it in steps as well so that I can hear the differences as I go along. After bass trapping I will determine if I need acoustic panels for the side walls and with bi-polar speakers, I may add some additional diffusion to the side and rear walls.

Best of luck on everything. Bottom line....Ethan's article above is very informative and should give you a good start. AND like you, I am avoiding putting anything on the front and rear walls (other than maybe diffusion and bass trapping in corners) so that I avoid losing the "bi-polarness" that I enjoy.
post #28592 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

No one buys these speakers for their clarity, or detail, or even their mid-range lushness, or lack there of. NO! What people buy these speakers for is that great home theater bass feeling and the emergence factor that puts you right there in the middle of the action!
Marty

Well,, that should generate some opinions for ya Marty..

Room treatments. I'm in that boat: dedicated theater room - modest approximately 18' wide by 16' deep 10+' ceiling, large fixed screen-PJ, four 7000 towers, CLR, IW rears and BP2X presence speakers high/wide in all 4 corners with soon to be dual subs. Myself and all who have witnessed think it already sounds quite good yet I know I have minor/normal echo issues. The WAF has been the delay yet I have been wanting to install three 2'x4' two inch thick panels down the side walls and then one each on the back of the double doors that enter the theater between the IW rears. Then possibly several panels on the ceiling. As you stated, all on the first reflection points that don't involve placing a panel anywhere near/behind any of the towers.
From everything I have read that would be about the best I could do. But part of me also thinks I should just contract an expert to come out, analyze my room and point me down a more specific path... One of those, I may spend more on the expert yet save on treatments and overall sound outcome etc..

Cheers
post #28593 of 30965
Marty you are correct that acoustic panels should not be used behind the bipolar speaker but the rear facing speakers will have very little effect on the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling. The rear facing speakers will actually travel along that wall giving you that "immersive" sound across the front. I recommend placing acoustic paneling on all other walls (that use direct firing speakers) to tame the rest of the room.
post #28594 of 30965
Does anyone know where to get tall speaker stands. I seen some on Craigslist awhile back that went up to 56 inches. Best I can find is about 45 which is too low for side or rear surrounds
post #28595 of 30965
post #28596 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

I am sorry Bam, what's your question? I am off to visit customers in Asia for the next 12 days so I will be on here very sporadically. You can always e mail info@definitivetech.com and TJ, Adam and Chet will get with you, or just call and ask for them at 800-228-7148. Best, Joe

Joe thanks for your reply, I know you are extremely busy. Here is my scenario.
I am installing UIW BPA L/R and DI 5.5 for center. The room adjacent to where my speakers are being installed is going through a major renovation so all the drywall will be removed thus exposing the inside of the "speaker wall" and allowing me to do any alterations or modifications necessary. Do you recommend filling this wall with insulation and adding insulation behind the speakers? I would like to help reduce the amount of sound heard in the adjacent room but I don't want to diminish the quality of sound. One additional note, the wall where the speakers are being installed is a thin panel so I am concerned about a boomy hollow sound and I thought filling the wall with regular pink insulation would help reduce this. Opportunities to change the interior of a wall don't come around very often so I want to take full advantage of it. Thanks!
post #28597 of 30965
I just got an email from Newegg today with a coupon for 40% off select speakers, including BP-8060STs and 8 other Definitive speakers. The code is linked to your email though, but the 8060s would only be $1200 new.
post #28598 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

I just got an email from Newegg today with a coupon for 40% off select speakers, including BP-8060STs and 8 other Definitive speakers. The code is linked to your email though, but the 8060s would only be $1200 new.
Sounds like a great deal to me...like paying retail for the 8020's and getting a big upgrade...smile.gif...go for it...smile.gif
post #28599 of 30965
Actually got the same email, decided to finally take the plunge.
Two 8060's for less than 1200 brand new, can't go wrong there!
post #28600 of 30965
Wow that is a very decent deal! Lucky you guys!
post #28601 of 30965
I've been checking the echos of my HT setup. The right side is causing an echo with its rear speakers that will leave you thinking its coming out of the front right. I've been reading a lot of Ethan's (pretty likeable guy) posts lately and agree with him halfway on the byproduct thing now. I see no problem with my mains being bipolar but with the side speakers its effects aren't exactly desirable in my room - especially that right side speaker!
post #28602 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_r_ View Post

Wow that is a very decent deal! Lucky you guys!

Doesn't need luck, just needs you to sign up for Newegg's email ads. Worthwhile for anyone who shops for electronics, IMO.
post #28603 of 30965
Recently i came across a clr2002 so im thinking about getting it . I wonder how it will go against my third bp8b as a center. Reason is why im thinking of getting it is cause the bp8b that im using as a center, while great, is giving me problems as far as not being able to fit an entertaintment center between my speakers. From all the reviews ive heard, the clr 2002 is awesone so im thinking of trying it. Im sure the clr2002 is similar and would match my bp8s. Any input is appreciated!
post #28604 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

Doesn't need luck, just needs you to sign up for Newegg's email ads. Worthwhile for anyone who shops for electronics, IMO.
I was referring to those who could buy and use the 8060s as being lucky. Due to design limitations in my house I had to go the Mythos XTR route since I could not do floor standing.
post #28605 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollie83 View Post

Recently i came across a clr2002 so im thinking about getting it . I wonder how it will go against my third bp8b as a center. Reason is why im thinking of getting it is cause the bp8b that im using as a center, while great, is giving me problems as far as not being able to fit an entertaintment center between my speakers. From all the reviews ive heard, the clr 2002 is awesone so im thinking of trying it. Im sure the clr2002 is similar and would match my bp8s. Any input is appreciated!

Rollie the LCR2002 would be a perfect match. Using a bipolar for me is never a good idea for a center so the 2002 is a perfect choice. I use a 2002 with my 7001's and its awesome.
post #28606 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

Martycool, interesting! I am approaching the same task as I finish converting my "listening basement" to a true theater room. AND I am flying blind as I too have decided not to do any measurements for now. We really should buy an omnimic, but from everything I have been reading on the internet extensive corner/room bass trapping will be nothing but beneficial. Since this may take away some of the bi-polarness, (by putting broadband absorbers in the front corners behind bi-polar speakers) I have found a company that builds a scatter board in front of the trap to help maintain the higher frequency air in the room.

Here is a fantastic article on acoustic treatments that has helped me a ton....http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Here is what I am looking at for the corners....http://gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-tri-trap/ (with the built in scatter board for some of them) and for some of the other areas of the room....http://gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-monster-bass-trap/ They seem reasonably priced and have the option of adding the built-in diffusers so that (hopefully) they will not diminish the "bi-polarness" of the front image. I plan on being as generous as I can afford with the broadband bass traps around the room.

I have also looked at Auralex (just decided I didn't like the look of the foam and have read that it may not be as effective as the alternatives) and have also looked at DIY Owens Corning 703 or 705 fiber boards.

Because I am in the middle of buying carpet, and hopefully a projector and screen I may not get to go as nuts as I want. I have a feeling carpet my negate my need for acoustic panels for the mid and high frequency control but this may not be the case. I may just do it in steps as well so that I can hear the differences as I go along. After bass trapping I will determine if I need acoustic panels for the side walls and with bi-polar speakers, I may add some additional diffusion to the side and rear walls.

Best of luck on everything. Bottom line....Ethan's article above is very informative and should give you a good start. AND like you, I am avoiding putting anything on the front and rear walls (other than maybe diffusion and bass trapping in corners) so that I avoid losing the "bi-polarness" that I enjoy.

Yosh- I do not recommend spending all that money on those expensive bass traps with the "scatter" blocks in front or what ever. You can achieve the same thing with OC703, and either some 6mil plastic shething or some denser fabric from the likes of Hancoc Fabric or Hobby Lobby.
post #28607 of 30965
Hey Marty,

Take a look at how I placed my acoustic panels in my room. None are behind my 7002's but placed around them with fantastic results. Hope this helps.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1227548/new-definitive-technology-setup-by-bigham16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I would like to pose a question for all of the Def Tech gurus out there...


How should room treatments be implemented with regards to using Def Tech bipolar speakers in a theater room? I do of course know that you should never use absorb panels on the front wall behind a bipolar speaker, but being that the whole point of using bipolar speakers is to bounce the sound waves off the room boundries, should any absorbt panels be used at all? Are the first reflection points ideal for this? Have any of you guys ever measured a pair of Def Tech bipolars? I woulds imagine that they would measure horrible. It just seems to me that the benefits to using Def Tech bi-poles are to get that emerging, deep sound stage that is commonly associated with these due to their bi-polar nature, and that using room treatments is a delicate task in trying not to mess with the emergence factor of the speakers. No one buys these speakers for their clarity, or detail, or even their mid-range lushness, or lack there of. NO! What people buy these speakers for is that great home theater bass feeling and the emergence factor that puts you right there in the middle of the action!

I would like to hear some more opinions from you guys on how yall feel about these things.



Marty
post #28608 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigham16 View Post

Hey Marty,

Take a look at how I placed my acoustic panels in my room. None are behind my 7002's but placed around them with fantastic results. Hope this helps.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1227548/new-definitive-technology-setup-by-bigham16

Your room looks great. What type of fabric did you use to cover the panels?
post #28609 of 30965
Hi all,
New to posting in these boards, although I've used it as a reference to just about every A/V purchase I've made in the last 5 years. I haven't purchased a set in a while and just got a killer deal on (2) 8020's and the CS8040HD. But if i remember correctly when I purchased my 7002's, they were specifically L & R. I noticed the 8000 series didn't seem to be matched like that. My dealer checked his inventory and none of his stock were specifically labeled L or R. Is this correct? This thought just occurred to me as I was setting them up and i figured i'd ask you all before I shoot an email over to DefTech. Thanks for any help.
post #28610 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by badbadleroybrown View Post

Hi all,
New to posting in these boards, although I've used it as a reference to just about every A/V purchase I've made in the last 5 years. I haven't purchased a set in a while and just got a killer deal on (2) 8020's and the CS8040HD. But if i remember correctly when I purchased my 7002's, they were specifically L & R. I noticed the 8000 series didn't seem to be matched like that. My dealer checked his inventory and none of his stock were specifically labeled L or R. Is this correct? This thought just occurred to me as I was setting them up and i figured i'd ask you all before I shoot an email over to DefTech. Thanks for any help.
You are correct...doesn't matter as both sub drivers will face the same way no matter what you use for L and R...smile.gif...congrats on the purchase!
post #28611 of 30965
Thanks bradthebold88!!! I got them from ATSAcoustics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

Your room looks great. What type of fabric did you use to cover the panels?
post #28612 of 30965
Thanks! I should've gotten active sooner as this thread is massive. I'm really enjoying the topics being discussed, such as the room treatment which is now current. Again thanks for the help.
post #28613 of 30965
I went to Home Depot to get a look at the OC703 or 705 and they didn't have any. The stuff is like 2" foam boards right? They did have stuff like that but it didn't look porous. It was like a shiney plastic shell, not the aluminum shelled stuff. It looked like it would be more reflective than absorbtive.
post #28614 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I would like to pose a question for all of the Def Tech gurus out there...


How should room treatments be implemented with regards to using Def Tech bipolar speakers in a theater room? I do of course know that you should never use absorb panels on the front wall behind a bipolar speaker, but being that the whole point of using bipolar speakers is to bounce the sound waves off the room boundries, should any absorbt panels be used at all? Are the first reflection points ideal for this? Have any of you guys ever measured a pair of Def Tech bipolars? I woulds imagine that they would measure horrible. It just seems to me that the benefits to using Def Tech bi-poles are to get that emerging, deep sound stage that is commonly associated with these due to their bi-polar nature, and that using room treatments is a delicate task in trying not to mess with the emergence factor of the speakers. No one buys these speakers for their clarity, or detail, or even their mid-range lushness, or lack there of. NO! What people buy these speakers for is that great home theater bass feeling and the emergence factor that puts you right there in the middle of the action!

I would like to hear some more opinions from you guys on how yall feel about these things.



Marty

I'll have a bite of this. smile.gif According to the experts, if you don't block the first reflection points than the treatments are pointless. rolleyes.gif
What I've found with these speakers is that they are able to play low volumes nicely with music you can feel, but lack warmth and can be quite edgy.
They will rock a large house at higher volumes but you wouldn't want to be in the same room as them. The highs will clash like cymbals and be quite fatiguing.
Louder? The large drivers will show no signs of letting up. The highs will wildly distort, the lengthly hisses and metallic sounds will cause blood to quickly poor from your ears, eyes and nose.

Nice for home theater and gaming.

Disclaimer: maybe its my receiver/ room or both.
post #28615 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleatusCat View Post

I went to Home Depot to get a look at the OC703 or 705 and they didn't have any. The stuff is like 2" foam boards right? They did have stuff like that but it didn't look porous. It was like a shiney plastic shell, not the aluminum shelled stuff. It looked like it would be more reflective than absorbtive.

Look for local insulation supply companies for the rigid fiberglass in either OC or Johns Manville brands.

Bill
post #28616 of 30965
Hello Gentlemen:

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here in need of your expert advice and guidance.

I will soon be moving to Japan and would like to bring a 7.1 system with me. My budget is around $1700, although of course the less spent, the better.

I'll install the receiver + speakers in an open-floor plan combination living/dining/kitchen. Total space is around 20 square meters (about 215 square feet), in a rectangular configuration. Floors are wood (heating elements underneath) and walls are a combination of gyp board (non-load bearing) and concrete (load bearing). Windows are along one side. We'll have the usual assortment of furniture (dining table and chairs, couch, coffee table, club chair, a few cabinets or bookcases, etc.).

For the receiver, I've been considering either a Denon AVR-2113CI or AVR-1913; for the speakers Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 800s (6 of them) plus Pro Center 1000 plus Pro Sub 800 OR Pro Monitor 1000s (6 of them) plus Pro Center 2000 plus Pro Sub 1000. The system will be used to watch movies (40%), TV (mostly sports, 30%), music (20%), and video games (PS3, 10%). My questions:

1. Is the 1913 enough, or am I better off with the superior features of the 2113? Or is there another model I should instead be considering?
2. Is the 800 set-up (with Pro Center 1000) going to properly fill the space, or should I upgrade to the 1000s (with Pro Center 2000)?
3. If I go with the 800 set-up, should I upgrade the center to the Pro Center 2000? (I've seen this mentioned in a few threads here as being advantageous for movie dialog.)
4. What about dual sub woofers? Is there any advantage to these in the type of space I've described?
5. Anything else that you all in your infinite wisdom can suggest, or that I'm not thinking about but should?

Thanks in advance!
post #28617 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by threepwood View Post

Hello Gentlemen:

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here in need of your expert advice and guidance.

I will soon be moving to Japan and would like to bring a 7.1 system with me. My budget is around $1700, although of course the less spent, the better.

I'll install the receiver + speakers in an open-floor plan combination living/dining/kitchen. Total space is around 20 square meters (about 215 square feet), in a rectangular configuration. Floors are wood (heating elements underneath) and walls are a combination of gyp board (non-load bearing) and concrete (load bearing). Windows are along one side. We'll have the usual assortment of furniture (dining table and chairs, couch, coffee table, club chair, a few cabinets or bookcases, etc.).

For the receiver, I've been considering either a Denon AVR-2113CI or AVR-1913; for the speakers Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 800s (6 of them) plus Pro Center 1000 plus Pro Sub 800 OR Pro Monitor 1000s (6 of them) plus Pro Center 2000 plus Pro Sub 1000. The system will be used to watch movies (40%), TV (mostly sports, 30%), music (20%), and video games (PS3, 10%). My questions:

1. Is the 1913 enough, or am I better off with the superior features of the 2113? Or is there another model I should instead be considering?
2. Is the 800 set-up (with Pro Center 1000) going to properly fill the space, or should I upgrade to the 1000s (with Pro Center 2000)?
3. If I go with the 800 set-up, should I upgrade the center to the Pro Center 2000? (I've seen this mentioned in a few threads here as being advantageous for movie dialog.)
4. What about dual sub woofers? Is there any advantage to these in the type of space I've described?
5. Anything else that you all in your infinite wisdom can suggest, or that I'm not thinking about but should?

Thanks in advance!

I went with the AVR 1713 and am very happy with it. I chose 1713 over 1913 as the 1713 has Audessey XT (as does the 2113) but the 1913 only Audessey non-XT.

With my Mythos 8's above the fireplace, I am currently auditioning a procenter 1000 (wife/placement issues) and have not been impressed yet but I'm giving it a chance to break in -- my initial REW measurements show > 10db drop in output below 150hz but Audessey set the crossover at 120hz. Once I get my sub I'll see if localization is an issue with such a high crossover with the sub in the rear.
post #28618 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

I just got an email from Newegg today with a coupon for 40% off select speakers, including BP-8060STs and 8 other Definitive speakers. The code is linked to your email though, but the 8060s would only be $1200 new.
I just signed up for newegg email subscription. Any chance I will be offered the same deal? With that price, might be all I need to pull the trigger.
post #28619 of 30965
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorFla View Post

I just signed up for newegg email subscription. Any chance I will be offered the same deal? With that price, might be all I need to pull the trigger.

It was only for 24 hours, so the sale has ended already.
post #28620 of 30965
Wow thats quick! Thanks for prompt reply!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Definitive Owners Thread