Definitive Owners Thread - Page 956

Originally Posted by TenTonBass 

If you set the receiver crossover at 50hz, does the subwoofer still play all the LFE signals sent to it at all frequencies? Because LFE is specifically engineered for subwoofers correct? Or no?

Originally Posted by TenTonBass 

If you set the receiver crossover at 50hz, does the subwoofer still play all the LFE signals sent to it at all frequencies? Because LFE is specifically engineered for subwoofers correct? Or no?

Originally Posted by KJSmitty 

Some prefer the single driver to the front. Not to mention its easier to get at the amp controls.
Looks great too

Originally Posted by TenTonBass 

Yeah I just dont think it's gonna work. Even at 6 inches they will still be blocking my tv for the people sitting on my side couch. So I'm thinking its either the Monitor 65s or the STS towers which I can place basically as close to the wall as they will go. STS is a quite a bump in price though,

Originally Posted by rdclark 

There's no question that the Mythos Gem surrounds and SM65 mains should be set to "small" with maybe an 80Hz crossover. The installer who recommended "large" is an idiot, not to be trusted in the future, because he clearly does not understand how bass management in a multichannel HT system works.

I also question the choice of an AVR (any Pioneer) that uses a universal crossover frequency, when combined with such a variety of different speakers. An unusually wide variety, in fact. Pioneer's MCACC system is intended for use with speakers that are all similar (Pioneer even says so in their technical literature).

The only real question here is whether to set the center to small or large. And there's really no question, because while the 8060 is capable of excellent bass for something its size, it's still not a full-range speaker that requires no bass management. Would you teally want to *not* have the center channel bass frequencies the 8060 can't handle sent to the Supercube?

So while it seems like a waste of the 8060's bass capabilities, setting it to small is the way to go, IMO. You'd get more out of it with a receiver that could set the CC crossover to a lower frequency, but with the Pioneer you can't do that.

Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive 

Hi Bad Leroy, you are correct that the L/R are no longer labeled that way. These can be used as L/C/R with no issue. Best regards, Joe

Originally Posted by badbadleroybrown 

Thanks! i actually called you guys on Friday because one of the towers had a metal plate where the sub was supposed to be. Found out that some of them had a covering over the sub.

Originally Posted by CleatusCat 

I'll have a bite of this. According to the experts, if you don't block the first reflection points than the treatments are pointless.
What I've found with these speakers is that they are able to play low volumes nicely with music you can feel, but lack warmth and can be quite edgy.
They will rock a large house at higher volumes but you wouldn't want to be in the same room as them. The highs will clash like cymbals and be quite fatiguing.
Louder? The large drivers will show no signs of letting up. The highs will wildly distort, the lengthly hisses and metallic sounds will cause blood to quickly poor from your ears, eyes and nose.

Nice for home theater and gaming.

Disclaimer: maybe its my receiver/ room or both.[/quote











I have to retract as I have finally had some free time to spend tweaking settings on the receiver to make these the sound more welcoming at loud levels. What I found is that MCACC was setting up the speakers at very clashy, harsh, bright levels due to its effort to control the bass reverb. I reset the receiver and put in some earplugs, played nothing but thrash music ( I don't listen to) and tuned the rough edges off. I still have a long way to go but these speakers have now become quite comfortable playing music at loud levels now

Originally Posted by CleatusCat 


I have Pioneer Elite SC-25 and I can atest that they are very bright on the highs requiring some tweaking. The best thing to do is lower the X-Curve in the receiver setting to at least -2db or more. This takes some of the harshness of the really high frequencies.

Originally Posted by josh6113 

What speakers do you have cleatuscat?...I have a pioneer elite vsx-60 and my 8060 towers would exhibit this trait when I ran MCACC.That is why I run my towersflat with no EQ except for setting the distance and they play loud and clear now....no harshness up top...like you I still mess around with the settings but for now I'm very pleased.

I see 3000tl's....didn't look at your Sig...

Originally Posted by TenTonBass 

I have Pioneer Elite SC-25 and I can atest that they are very bright on the highs requiring some tweaking. The best thing to do is lower the X-Curve in the receiver setting to at least -2db or more. This takes some of the harshness of the really high frequencies.

Originally Posted by TenTonBass 

If you set the receiver crossover at 50hz, does the subwoofer still play all the LFE signals sent to it at all frequencies? Because LFE is specifically engineered for subwoofers correct? Or no?

Originally Posted by Kurolicious 

Another thing to remember is that with Pioneer AVR's, when all speakers are set to Small and a crossover is applied, it takes the bass from all the speakers plus the LFE channel and THEN applies the crossover. So, if you set the crossover to 50hz, you'll be cutting off the upper end of the LFE channel. 80hz or 100hz would almost always be the better choice.

Ten ton bass, Hi all, just wondering what is the closest that the BP tower speakers can be placed from a wall and still get the sound dispersion. I'm looking at the BP-10s, dont need built in subs, already have a 15" sub. Thanks guys!

Originally Posted by rdclark 

I'd be interested in seeing a source for this. Since LFE is not redirected to any other speakers when they are set to "small," and since LFE can contain sound well above 50 (or 80 or 100) Hz, such a design would result in information present in the program not being reproduced at all. That would be, IMO, a fatal design flaw in a surround processor, and one I would have expected to have heard about before now.

Originally Posted by Kurolicious 

Understandable and I felt the same way until I asked this question and received this response from Macfan424 post #14003.

"With Pioneer (and many other brands), the crossover setting does affect LFE. The bass directed from the "Small" speakers is mixed with the LFE in the subwoofer channel, then the crossover is applied to the sub channel. The LFE above the crossover is not redirected to the mains, either. It is gone. So Kurolicious' ears are not deceiving him. With a 50Hz crossover on his Pioneer VSX-92TXH, he is losing LFE above 50Hz. (Again, this design decision is not unique to Pioneer, and it is supported by some valid theoretic arguments better suited to a different thread.)".

Originally Posted by jjcook 

I was planning to install my in-ceiling surround speakers (for 5.1) today in my finished living room but have run into an issue regarding orientation that I could use your input on. I will also be emailing deftech and will post their response but thought I'd get your input today (and with luck maybe Joe@DefTech will respond today):

I picked up a pair of RSS II in-ceiling bipolar speakers and regarding orienting the speaker the manual states:

"If ceiling-mounting these speakers directly on either side of the main listening position, the speakers should be oriented so that one set of drivers shoots at the listening position and the other set shoots away from the listening position."

Unfortunately due to my 12" on-center ceiling joists and their orientation, I can not orient the RSS II's as recommended in the manual -- only 90 degrees to the listener instead. Because of this, I started looking at their other in-ceiling speakers and am considering either the DI 6.5R or the DI 5.5 BPS. Upon looking at the manual for the 5.5 BPS, I see what appears to be the opposite recommendation for the orientation; below is a shot from the manual, where the drivers are oriented 90 degrees to the listening position.



I presume this orientation is recommended as the tweeter in the 5.5 BPS is aimable (both rotation and axis change) -- is this the reason for the opposite recommendation (which again is what is compatible with my finished ceiling).

Here is the floorplan of my living room; I'm not even sure if the bipolar will work as well as they should since one speaker will be effectively in the middle of the room with not much of a reflection surface while the other is near a corner where either orientation would have a reflecting surface. I've inserted the 5.5 BPS as red boxes in the floorplan.



FYI, for my fronts, I am running L/R as Mythos 8 and currently have a ProCenter 1000 that I'll be upgrading to a Mythos 8 or 9.

What is your input on orienting the RSS II's as surrounds at 90 degrees to the MLP as is recommended for the DI 5.5 BPS?

Lastly, here is a panoramic of the room:

Originally Posted by KJSmitty 

First and foremost,, I'm not doubting "you" or anything personal like that. But that definitely comes off as very strange. Obviously the "freqs at/below the crossover setting are directed to the sub/LFE output, but I have never read (or would have even "thought" - nor do I now,,) that the crossover effected the discrete "LFE" channel. That makes little since to me - even if it does only involve small portions of the intended sound track within the LFE.

Now, I do know that my AVR allows me to direct both "Bass freqs" and "LFE" (yet are they clipped by the CO..?). Either way, I feel like the monkey with my eyes and ears covered saying "I don't hear you..."

"Supported by some valid theoretic arguments better suited to a different thread"

I say let it be heard here!

Thanks/Cheers

Originally Posted by josh6113 

?...this sounds weird...have any pics...strange that it would make it all the way to you like that.

Originally Posted by Kurolicious 

When I first got my DefTech's I was excited at the idea that I would be able to set my crossover much lower than 80hz. However, when I set the crossover at 50hz and played some bass heavy movies, I quickly noticed something sounded "off". I could tell there was some bass missing vs. the 80hz crossover so, there must be some truth to this. I imagine there is some reasoning by the engineers at Pioneer for doing this but we may never know what that reasoning is.

Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive 

Hello Josh and BadLeroy, this is intentional Our latest production runs of BP 8080 ST, BP 8020 ST, and CS 8060 HD have metal mesh grilles covering the woofers and bass radiators. Acoustically they are unchanged - best, Joe

Originally Posted by josh6113 

Hmm...why was it decided to add them?...what purpose do they serve?...I'll be interested to hear...

Originally Posted by Ratified 

More protection for a speaker, the better; well atleast till it effects the sound. Had some older JBL towers with titanium dome tweeters that kept getting in the way of my daughter's, niece's, and nephew's little fingers. Replaced several of those things before actually made some mesh grilles to cover them.