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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 969

post #29041 of 30941
Once again guys thanks for all of your input. I will be experimenting more and more with this setup. I was bored this morning and set my towers back to large putsub off and center on large. Popped in a bluray dark night rises set the yamaha 1020 reciever to -20 and played the first scene w the airplane 3 times. Changed my configration on the speakers towers to small and plugged in the LFE s and set the center to small. I found a dramatic jump in the lows from the LFEs and the mids and highs sounded great. I went back and changed my center to large and played the scene 3 times. I felt it :rolleyes:was the perfect balance my towers feel like they are producing a more cinamatic feel to it like I was at the theaters. My surrounds the 6.5 lcr's blended in better with more low end from the towers w the LFE outs w sub on in my configuration. Nice sound.
post #29042 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

Very true.

And in the past several weeks from when I started my sub build I have read more about Audyssey and speaker configuration theories than I have in the 30+ years I have been in this hobby (and I don't even utilize Audyssey - but its excellent info regardless smile.gif ). The one conclusion I have come to is there really is no "correct way" in the typical users multipurpose space. And JL I quoted your post and am using your "correct way" comment but my thoughts are no way shape or form directed at you. This is just me rambling over a cup of coffee. biggrin.gif
My humble opinion is that in a perfectly designed listening space, two channel or HT, with a standard speaker type/design a "correct way" to achieve perfect EQ of sound is completely valid. In the real world where most are dealing with multi-use spaces, open floor plans and decor ideas that typically never include acoustic treatments, subwoofers and "significant others" in the same sentence,,, I feel the only "correct way" is that which sounds best to the user. My gut tells me if there was a set standard and/or right way AVR manufacturers would not continue to give us the flexibility and user defined speaker/sound management that they continue to refine with tools like Audyssey, YPAO and MCACC. Same with speaker and sub manufacturers (like DT). And even more important - like JL mentioned, each one of us may have a different idea of what sounds best or what we like in regards to tight and/or boomy bass etc.

Bottom line, I'm just glad equipment is designed like it is to allow users flexibility to experiment and find what sounds best to them within their space. Because, I do agree with JL that there are "correct ways" yet whether it's just my own preferences and/or not so perfect or challenging spaces, I've always ended up choosing something just outside the box etc.

Again, "it's all good". biggrin.gif
Hello all, yep - it's all good if you are happy! A lesson that I learned early in my stereo sales career is that customers have different likes and dislikes. Not only is each acoustical space a bit different - and Smitty's comments about open floor plans and significant others are good - but even our own tastes can change over time. "And even more important - like JL mentioned, each one of us may have a different idea of what sounds best or what we like in regards to tight and/or boomy bass etc". Frequently folks wind up dialing the bass back a bit once they have lived with a system for a while. So we each have a slightly different take on "correct", and that can change.
Still, the original idea of THX was: How do we standardize things so that we are not just taking a stab in the dark? There are objective ways to measure the off axis response of a system, or whether the center channel dialog is true to the director's / producer's intent, etc. It's really a mix of getting as close to an objective standard of correct as we can, and allowing for the fact that rooms and tastes are variables and not fixed. Best, Joe
post #29043 of 30941
To recent discussion:). My context of "correct way," was to that of a flat EQ line without spikes and dips throughout the frequency range. Of course there are different ways to do this although I wouldn't put Audyssey, YPAO and MCACC in the same boat for the simple fact that Audyssey is the only one that deals with the lower end subwoofer frequencies, where its needed most.
post #29044 of 30941
I was fortunate to be at the right place at the right time at a local Best Buy and came across my new speaker system on clearance. Great shape and nothing wrong. Not a normal clearance item. Just had way too much inventory and were desperate to get rid of open box items. I actually got them to come off the clearance price by 50 percent so an absolute amazing deal or I wouldn't have done it because I wasn't really looking as I had an old setup that was good, but told myself if I ever had an amazing deal I would upgrade.

I will list

CS-8040HD center
BP-8060ST Main Floor Speakers
SR-8040BP Surrounds

I currently have an old MK sub so I am running full range only on the 8060s and got a really good blend with MK sub. After doing some tweaking it is really sounding great. The only area I would like to improve upon is the center channel. I would like the CS-8080HD and wonder if that would be overkill. That one speaker will almost cost me what I paid for all 5 other speakers combined. I wish BB had one I could test, but they don't carry that model. I just don't wanna pay that kind of price even though I know I am way ahead of the cost curve here. Love some thoughts here...
post #29045 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by darynm View Post

I was fortunate to be at the right place at the right time at a local Best Buy and came across my new speaker system on clearance. Great shape and nothing wrong. Not a normal clearance item. Just had way too much inventory and were desperate to get rid of open box items. I actually got them to come off the clearance price by 50 percent so an absolute amazing deal or I wouldn't have done it because I wasn't really looking as I had an old setup that was good, but told myself if I ever had an amazing deal I would upgrade.

I will list

CS-8040HD center
BP-8060ST Main Floor Speakers
SR-8040BP Surrounds

I currently have an old MK sub so I am running full range only on the 8060s and got a really good blend with MK sub. After doing some tweaking it is really sounding great. The only area I would like to improve upon is the center channel. I would like the CS-8080HD and wonder if that would be overkill. That one speaker will almost cost me what I paid for all 5 other speakers combined. I wish BB had one I could test, but they don't carry that model. I just don't wanna pay that kind of price even though I know I am way ahead of the cost curve here. Love some thoughts here...
Hi Daryn, yes, the CS 8080 HD is a really good center channel. One option for upgrading your center is to keep your CS 8040, buy a subwoofer with speaker level in and out (i.e., ProSub 800 or 1000), and connect the sub to the center. You'll have to find a spot for the sub, so it isn't as elegant a solution, but one thing people love about the CS 8080 is the strong low frequency performance. So this is a cost-effective way to get better center channel audio. I hope this helps - best, Joe
post #29046 of 30941
That's not a bad idea, but just money I would rather spend to the right solution and just figure out how to get an CS 8080 for a great price. I would be interested in a used one if anyone wants to get rid of theirs for a reasonable price. I have seen them on ebay for $730.00 but my bank is still busted. Damn this hobby! smile.gif I suppose if I was able to sell my CS 8040 for the right price or do some trade. Anyone interested let me know...
post #29047 of 30941
Darynm, Joe gave you a great idea. It's one I've been doing for years now. I have BP7001's and noticed when planes would fly across the screen the center ( CLR2002 ) could never keep up with the bass of the towers. So I added a Prosub 1000 and after calibrating my center sounds awesome and no more mismatched mid bass ( my towers and center with Prosub are all crossed at 40Hz to my SVS sub ). It's also fairly cheap as Prosubs go for pennies on eBay.
post #29048 of 30941
A question. Should I be concerned about the long term reliability and sound quality of a speaker that is wired internally out of phase i.e. marked as + is actually - and vice versa? Speaker is 8040 surround. They have been out of stock for Amazon Prime customers if you buy direct from Amazon for at least 10 days. Getting impatient, I bought 2 from another seller which Amazon fulfilled under Prime. One speaker was faulty as mentioned above and the other had sound levels 10db less than out of phase one and terrible sound quality. Latter is going back today when UPS delivers a replacement. Thanks
post #29049 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

A question. Should I be concerned about the long term reliability and sound quality of a speaker that is wired internally out of phase i.e. marked as + is actually - and vice versa? Speaker is 8040 surround. They have been out of stock for Amazon Prime customers if you buy direct from Amazon for at least 10 days. Getting impatient, I bought 2 from another seller which Amazon fulfilled under Prime. One speaker was faulty as mentioned above and the other had sound levels 10db less than out of phase one and terrible sound quality. Latter is going back today when UPS delivers a replacement. Thanks


Well, manufacturing issues do happen thus hopefully you will soon be delivered a pair you are happy with etc. Big picture however is Definitive stands behind their products thus they have your back better than many others out there.

Curious, how are you determining that they are truly wired out of phase?

Cheers
post #29050 of 30941
Room correction can randomly say a DT speaker is out of phase.
post #29051 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleatusCat View Post

Room correction can randomly say a DT speaker is out of phase.
Exactly, I was just curious if that was the source or if it was determined via a physical inspection at the crossover/driver connections etc..
post #29052 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

Well, manufacturing issues do happen thus hopefully you will soon be delivered a pair you are happy with etc. Big picture however is Definitive stands behind their products thus they have your back better than many others out there.

Curious, how are you determining that they are truly wired out of phase?

Cheers

Yamaha YPAO results. I am very careful to identify my speaker wire +&- correctly and follow thru from speaker to AVR. Have had 3 Yamaha's with Ypao and never a problem before. In this case the wires for the surrounds had been used and tested with 2 other sets of speakers from the same receiver in the same locations before connecting the 8040 surrounds. No problem. The 8040 replacement arrived today. Replaced the old Bose (forgive me I have sinned) center channel that was used overnight. (Bose had no phase problem). Connected the new 8040 the same +/- way and YPAO said it was out of phase also. Switched wires and ran it again. Again YPAO said it was out of phase. Switched back to original +/- connection that failed the first time and it passed when YPAO was run again!!!!!

Despite all this @#$^% the latest speaker sounds good and level/distance results indicate it's sound output is equal to the other 8040 surround. They blend in well with my 8060 towers, 8040 center and Promonitor 800's that I am using for presence speakers.

I take it from your response that you don't think that an internal wiring screw up (+ and - reversed on speaker terminals) is a long term reliability problem.
post #29053 of 30941
can anyone offer any advice on this speaker cable

http://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Speaker-Cable-Banana-Plugs/dp/B0056BEL1W

less than half the price that if I were to purchase same length cable from blue jeans ($40)

I know blue jeans has great reputation for quality cables at good prices, so I was wondering if the sewell cable might be crap given that its so much cheaper ($16)
post #29054 of 30941
Does anyone have a component cabinet that has room for an CS-8080HD in the cabinet? Or know of one? I currently have it sitting on top of my cabinet but the cabinet I have is a number of years old and the left and right sides aren't wide enough for most HT equipment. I have no idea why I didn't think about this when I bought it originally but, to be fair, my equipment has changed drastically since I purchased it so I probably just wasn't thinking about future equipment compatibility at the time. I have seen a number of DIY cabinets on this forum and have done some rough sketches to determine dimensions but, while I love to do DIY projects and am very capable at doing them, I do prefer a quality, crafted cabinet that is aesthetically pleasing and fits into my décor. I just haven't found anything yet that has the dimensions to fit the hoss. It is 23.5" wide and is 6.75" tall but requires a minimum of 1" headroom. I haven't checked on the depth since most cabinets made for such things are usually plenty deep. Anyhow, if anybody has any recommendations I sure would be appreciative.
post #29055 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Yamaha YPAO results.

I take it from your response that you don't think that an internal wiring screw up (+ and - reversed on speaker terminals) is a long term reliability problem.

Now, I'm not being a smart arse yet no, I don't. I also am near 99.99% sure you do not and/or did not have a reversed internal wiring issue. This is a very common issue with YPAO, Audyssey as well as MCACC especially with dipole and bipolar speakers and powered speakers like the DT's. Trust me, I could have sworn my first CLR3000 center was wired wrong as well.. Same with my BP2000s as well as BP7000SC's. A minor gain adjustment on the powered speakers usually proves it. Same with your 8040 surrounds - its just the way YPAO and others get confused sometimes given the bipolar design and reflections. I guarantee your Yamaha manual will have a "Caution" or "Note" that will tell you the exact same in regards to YPAO phase errors and not to worry about them - it does not effect the other readings/settings.

Now, for the 8040 that was 10db low, that is peculiar if the same channel and a different 8040 sounds greatly different. I would have questioned that as well.

Cheers
post #29056 of 30941
Sorry to post here, but thought it might be of interest to someone.

Looking to move a set of PowerMonitor 900 and a CLR3000 in Los Angeles area. Working 100%

Also have 3x XTR-50 that have never been plugged in. The XTRs have boxes and I can ship if needed.

Feel free to PM if interested and we can discuss price.

Thanks,
Brian
post #29057 of 30941
Any opinions welcome...currently have a nine speaker dt setup with bp2000 fronts, clr3000, sm450 side surrounds, bp30 rear surrounds, and clr2000 heights. Been mulling selling the 2000's, moving the 30's up front to clear some floor space, and then putting either 450's or bpvx as the rears. My question is are the bpvx ~$300 better than the sm450's for rear surrounds? Any thoughts welcome....
post #29058 of 30941
IMO, the bpx series is better suited to being placed on side rather than rear walls. So if you are talking about rear placement, the 450's should be fine.
post #29059 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

Now, I'm not being a smart arse yet no, I don't. I also am near 99.99% sure you do not and/or did not have a reversed internal wiring issue. This is a very common issue with YPAO, Audyssey as well as MCACC especially with dipole and bipolar speakers and powered speakers like the DT's. Trust me, I could have sworn my first CLR3000 center was wired wrong as well.. Same with my BP2000s as well as BP7000SC's. A minor gain adjustment on the powered speakers usually proves it. Same with your 8040 surrounds - its just the way YPAO and others get confused sometimes given the bipolar design and reflections. I guarantee your Yamaha manual will have a "Caution" or "Note" that will tell you the exact same in regards to YPAO phase errors and not to worry about them - it does not effect the other readings/settings.

Now, for the 8040 that was 10db low, that is peculiar if the same channel and a different 8040 sounds greatly different. I would have questioned that as well.

Cheers

You are correct. Seems like I should have read the DT owners manual before installation! It says to ignore YPAO etc. results and just make sure you have + to + and - to -. Turns out that is the final result anyway. The one I returned definitely had something wrong with it. Sounded like crap.

Latest issue is whether the 8040s were a good choice for my less than ideal layout. Surrounds have to go onto shelf of end tables for seating area (sofa) with large open space behind. With 8040s half of sound goes into open space and half to front. Although YPAO has db level and distance the same as 2 Orb per side that I experimented with before, the sound level and surround effect seems less than with the Orbs. Advice would be welcome. Orbs currently being used as rear surrounds (1x3 per side).
post #29060 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hi Daryn, yes, the CS 8080 HD is a really good center channel. One option for upgrading your center is to keep your CS 8040, buy a subwoofer with speaker level in and out (i.e., ProSub 800 or 1000), and connect the sub to the center. You'll have to find a spot for the sub, so it isn't as elegant a solution, but one thing people love about the CS 8080 is the strong low frequency performance. So this is a cost-effective way to get better center channel audio. I hope this helps - best, Joe

Can I do this with a my Mythos 10 center channel also? Just wondering cause I have a ProSub 1000 that's not being used. And will soon have 2 SC II laying around till my new dual subs arrive. smile.gif
post #29061 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by endsleigh View Post

Due to budget constraints (married with four kids = far less irresponsible spending than I'd like!), I'm very slowly building my sound system. I don't need movie theater power, since I don't envision ever filling a space larger than an average-sized living room, but I am trying to achieve sound that's high enough quality to satisfy a classically-trained musician who can tell the difference between $20 Arctic computer speakers and the BP8Bs that are currently sitting in my living room biggrin.gif.

All I have at the moment in the speaker department are the L+R BP8Bs. They're powered by a Harman Kardon AVR 1565. The sound is gorgeous, but I'm finding that for movies, the voices sometimes are not as dominant as I'd like them to be. Also, I'd like a subwoofer to round out the amazing mid and high-range soundstage created by the DefTechs. I don't need (and my wife doesn't want) bass that can shatter glass or make dogs howl, but I do want to fill out the lower registers. When I play Pink Floyd, I don't just want to hear Roger Water's guitar, I want to feel it.

So, long story short: are there any recommendations for center channel and subwoofer add-ons to my setup? I would be willing to spend up to ~$300-$400 on each (like I said, budget constraints...). As with the rest of my equipment, I'm generally more focused on quality sound than insane power levels.

Thanks!

I just upgraded to a klipsch rw-12d,for $279 shipped from Newegg and I am very satisfied.
as far as setup goes, I went with 3 center channels as the C/L/R. Got it for an amazing price from electronics expo. Call and talk to Rich there.
post #29062 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

Can I do this with a my Mythos 10 center channel also? Just wondering cause I have a ProSub 1000 that's not being used. And will soon have 2 SC II laying around till my new dual subs arrive. smile.gif

Another way of looking at it is that any sub with speaker-level inputs can turn any speaker (or pair of speakers) into a full-range speaker, as long as the ranges of the two overlap.

Whether you consider it to be a subwoofer in this application, vs simply being the woofer in a three-way speaker, is mostly how you spin it.
post #29063 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

Another way of looking at it is that any sub with speaker-level inputs can turn any speaker (or pair of speakers) into a full-range speaker, as long as the ranges of the two overlap.

Whether you consider it to be a subwoofer in this application, vs simply being the woofer in a three-way speaker, is mostly how you spin it.

If I connect the sub to the center channel does it have to be set to large on the receiver? Right now I have all my speakers set to small. Including my front L/R Mythos ST. And all channels 80 hz x over.
post #29064 of 30941
Need some help with my 6.5 lcr. I want to know which db level to set on these speakers. I did the ypo and it set it to +1 on both is that good?
post #29065 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by j5woods1 View Post

Need some help with my 6.5 lcr. I want to know which db level to set on these speakers. I did the ypo and it set it to +1 on both is that good?
Im assuming your referencing the "speaker level".? YPAO typically gets them pretty close. Unless you have a sound/pressure meter to compare and set all channels it's hard to say.
post #29066 of 30941
Rhed no it doesn't need to be set to Large I am using line inputs with my LCR2002 center with a Prosub 1000. I have my receiver center set to small with a 40Hz crossover. What this does is my receiver will only send 40hz and up via the line level to my Prosub 1000, the Prosub using line level has a built in crossover at 80Hz so everything 40-80Hz is processed by the Prosub. Everything above 80Hz goes to my LCR2002 and everything below 40Hz is sent to my dedicated SVS sub via the receiver.

I have the same setup on my back channel speakers Mythos Gems and a Prosub 800. Doing this I get great mid bass out of my center and rear channel speakers ( I have BP 7001's as my mains crossed at 40Hz) so great mid bass sound all around and my SVS sub just handles bass below 40Hz. Sounds awesome.
post #29067 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post

Rhed no it doesn't need to be set to Large I am using line inputs with my LCR2002 center with a Prosub 1000. I have my receiver center set to small with a 40Hz crossover. What this does is my receiver will only send 40hz and up via the line level to my Prosub 1000, the Prosub using line level has a built in crossover at 80Hz so everything 40-80Hz is processed by the Prosub. Everything above 80Hz goes to my LCR2002 and everything below 40Hz is sent to my dedicated SVS sub via the receiver.

I have the same setup on my back channel speakers Mythos Gems and a Prosub 800. Doing this I get great mid bass out of my center and rear channel speakers ( I have BP 7001's as my mains crossed at 40Hz) so great mid bass sound all around and my SVS sub just handles bass below 40Hz. Sounds awesome.

Ok thanks bro.. One more thing I have a 5 yr old Pioneer receiver and it only does x over for all speakers in stead of individually. The receiver goes from 50,80,100,150.and 200. Guess ill try 50 and see how that sounds. Do I have to run calibration with the SPL meter again after I hook up the sub?
post #29068 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

Ok thanks bro.. One more thing I have a 5 yr old Pioneer receiver and it only does x over for all speakers in stead of individually. The receiver goes from 50,80,100,150.and 200. Guess ill try 50 and see how that sounds. Do I have to run calibration with the SPL meter again after I hook up the sub?

Anytime you change your speaker configuration you should rerun the calibration...
post #29069 of 30941
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

If I connect the sub to the center channel does it have to be set to large on the receiver? Right now I have all my speakers set to small. Including my front L/R Mythos ST. And all channels 80 hz x over.

If you set it to small with an 80Hz crossover you will negate most of the benefit of adding the sub to the CC. If all five of your speakers can handle a lower crossover, then the benefit will increase the lower the crossover goes. If your other speakers work better with a higher crossover, it would be worth trying setting just the CC to large when using a sub with it.
post #29070 of 30941
Greetings all,
I was prepping my patio for summer today and part of that is returning two outdoor speakers to the planters. I have four Definitive AW6500 speakers. Two under the patio area that never see direct water/elements. The other two are on the other side of the pool one each in six foot diameter planters. These two have seen everything from the sprinklers to baseball size hail over the last three years. Anyway, the reason I am posting is one of the planter 6500s sounded like it was blown - very weak cracking sound/music etc. First I swapped speakers to eliminate the wiring - all good. I figured what could it hurt and I pulled the speaker apart.

For anyone using AW5500 or 6500s if you ever have one sound like its blown or inoperative. Pull the cover off and check the connections. I found rust and corrosion on near all of them. Cleaned everything up with scotchbrite and WD40 then lubed everything up well prior to putting everything back together. Worked like new. biggrin.gif

Just an FYI and quick fix for anyone that may abuse a pair of Definitive AW5500 or 6500 outdoor speakers.

Cheers
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