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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 971

post #29101 of 30949
I know it's not recommended not to use room correction with the BP7000SC, but does anyone know which form of room correction may work the best? I love what Audyssey XT does for my center, rear, and velodyne subwoofer, but it doesn't play well with the subwoofers in the BP7000SC. I'm thinking my best option is to just bypass the front mains from the room EQ and run the Velodyne subwoofer as LFE only. I wonder if XT32 or another form of room correction would work better then my current 2808 which only has XT for it has more filters. Sadly I think the DSP in the BP7000SC is my biggest hurdle. I guess it's great is you don't have a AVR with a EQ sytem, but kinda of a pain if you do.
post #29102 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

I know it's not recommended not to use room correction with the BP7000SC, but does anyone know which form of room correction may work the best? I love what Audyssey XT does for my center, rear, and velodyne subwoofer, but it doesn't play well with the subwoofers in the BP7000SC. I'm thinking my best option is to just bypass the front mains from the room EQ and run the Velodyne subwoofer as LFE only. I wonder if XT32 or another form of room correction would work better then my current 2808 which only has XT for it has more filters. Sadly I think the DSP in the BP7000SC is my biggest hurdle. I guess it's great is you don't have a AVR with a EQ sytem, but kinda of a pain if you do.

This is what Audyssey XT does for me:


I'm looking to upgrade to XT32 and hoping more filters will be able to do a better job smoothing it out. XT seems to only do big scale adjustments. With more filters, it does a much better job on my subs though, so I'm hoping more filters will do a better job fine tuning the towers as well.

That said, XT still seems to work better than not for me.
Edited by bradthebold88 - 4/22/13 at 10:23am
post #29103 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post

No I didn't paint them. Although my ceiling is a few shades darker than the bezel the white was okay as it's similar to the can light bezels. I'm not sure why the grille isn't the same unpainted color as the bezel though -- I may paint the grills, haven't decided yet -- I don't have a sprayer to do it right

I'm going to Lowe's today to check out paint sprayers. The grills are noticeably a different color and the RLS grills are even less color matched than RSS. I may keep my in-ceilings stock color, but two of the RLS have to be painted wall color and one of them trim white.
post #29104 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

I've taken mine apart. Are you looking for parts or specs?

Wiring diagrams/wiring connection information, and where do the high level amp and crossover assemblies reside in the cabinet?
post #29105 of 30949
Hi all. I'm in the market to upgrade my speakers to pair with my VSX 1121. I was set on Klipsch rf62ii floor standers but the size was a little large for my front room (width/depth). I came across the Mythos 4s but can't seem to find much in terms of reviews even with searches. My concern is these speakers were released in 2004 making them almost 10 years old. I know speaker technology doesn't advance super quick but I'm wondering about the quality compared to recent releases. I can get two Mythos 4s at $500 and add a center next month. Of course I'd like the wall mounted Def Techs but $600+ per speaker isn't in the cards yet. These are replacing an Infinity TS 1200 set from about 5 years ago. Thoughts?
post #29106 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

This is what Audyssey XT does for me:


I'm looking to upgrade to XT32 and hoping more filters will be able to do a better job smoothing it out. XT seems to only do big scale adjustments. With more filters, it does a much better job on my subs though, so I'm hoping more filters will do a better job fine tuning the towers as well.

That said, XT still seems to work better than not for me.

Ya that's interesting. Since there is a dsp in the bp7000sc I'm a bit concerned again the processing delay causing issues with the measurements even with xt32.
post #29107 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Ya that's interesting. Since there is a dsp in the bp7000sc I'm a bit concerned again the processing delay causing issues with the measurements even with xt32.

I don't seem to hear or see any issues using Audyssey. If you are having issues though, I agree XT32 would probably not be any different.
post #29108 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

I don't seem to hear or see any issues using Audyssey. If you are having issues though, I agree XT32 would probably not be any different.

I have issues with measuring distance sometimes which I think maybe due to the DSP processing for the subwoofers. When I use the LFE for the subwoofer, it thinks my subwoofer is 20feet away when it's really 10 feet.
post #29109 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

When I use the LFE for the subwoofer, it thinks my subwoofer is 20feet away when it's really 10 feet.

And that could actually be exactly what Audyssey wants it set at. It may be trying to overcome phase or timing issues by adding distance etc. This is common yet not always "twice" the actual distance etc.
post #29110 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

I have issues with measuring distance sometimes which I think maybe due to the DSP processing for the subwoofers. When I use the LFE for the subwoofer, it thinks my subwoofer is 20feet away when it's really 10 feet.

Also depends if it is XT or lower or XT 32. XT 32 will EQ seperate subwoofers at unbalanced locations. XT and multi EQ think you have one sub no matter how many lfe connections you have. I have a Denon 3313 witch has XT. If I get another HSU sub then I will need to have them in a symmetrical manner from the MLP.
post #29111 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Also depends if it is XT or lower or XT 32. XT 32 will EQ seperate subwoofers at unbalanced locations. XT and multi EQ think you have one sub no matter how many lfe connections you have. I have a Denon 3313 witch has XT. If I get another HSU sub then I will need to have them in a symmetrical manner from the MLP.

That's not how XT32 works, is it? Doesn't Sub EQ HT just set the levels and distances separately, then XT32 EQ's them as a single sub, just like lower levels of Audyssey? So a receiver like the Onkyo 818 without Sub EQ HT will treat multiple subs as 1 just like lower levels of Audyssey without any separate treatment?
Edited by bradthebold88 - 4/23/13 at 8:24pm
post #29112 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

That's not how XT32 works, is it? Doesn't Sub EQ HT just set the levels and distances separately, then XT32 EQ's them as a single sub, just like lower levels of Audyssey? So a receiver like the Onkyo 818 without Sub EQ HT will treat multiple subs as 1 just like lower levels of Audyssey without any separate treatment?

I think your correct, but if I'm using speaker wire, I'm not sure how it would react to my woofers being "farther away" then the mids and tweeters due to the DSP delay. I rather just use my HGS-18 for LFE and the lower frequencies if I cross over the mains.
post #29113 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

I think your correct, but if I'm using speaker wire, I'm not sure how it would react to my woofers being "farther away" then the mids and tweeters due to the DSP delay. I rather just use my HGS-18 for LFE and the lower frequencies if I cross over the mains.

I would think that Audyssey would factor in any delay and properly set the mids and subs. It doesn't really matter what the DSP is doing or how far away they actually are, Audyssey just measures the time between when it generates the signal and when the mic picks it up and adjusts things accordingly.
post #29114 of 30949
^poor descriptions, I apologize. Simplified you could have one sub behind couch and another in the corner with XT 32. But with XT they should be equal to MLP because no sub EQ ht.
post #29115 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

I would think that Audyssey would factor in any delay and properly set the mids and subs. It doesn't really matter what the DSP is doing or how far away they actually are, Audyssey just measures the time between when it generates the signal and when the mic picks it up and adjusts things accordingly.

Gotcha. I'll have to tinker some more. 75% of the time, the bass seems off to me. I have to really adjust the volume dial just right on the back of the speaker so it's not to low or high before running the setup. I think the hardest part is positioning the speakers in a spot where the mids and woofers blend the best before running setup as well. Curious how it will work out once a get a couple more room treatments and eventually XT32.
post #29116 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Gotcha. I'll have to tinker some more. 75% of the time, the bass seems off to me. I have to really adjust the volume dial just right on the back of the speaker so it's not to low or high before running the setup. I think the hardest part is positioning the speakers in a spot where the mids and woofers blend the best before running setup as well. Curious how it will work out once a get a couple more room treatments and eventually XT32.

Setting the gain on the back was definitely the hardest for me to figure out. Just guessing where to set it never worked for me. If the gain is too high, Audyssey cuts the bass which also cut some mids for me and sounded bad. If it's set too low, then Audyssey will cross it over really high (like 120Hz). The best thing I figured out is to turn Audyssey and any other EQ off and use the REW signal generator to set the levels. I would unhook 1 speaker to do each individually. I would use the speaker pink noise to set the output to 75db, then I would use the sub pink noise and adjust the gain until it was 75dB too. Once the sub matched the mids output level, I would run Audyssey and that is the best results I've gotten.
post #29117 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

Setting the gain on the back was definitely the hardest for me to figure out. Just guessing where to set it never worked for me. If the gain is too high, Audyssey cuts the bass which also cut some mids for me and sounded bad. If it's set too low, then Audyssey will cross it over really high (like 120Hz). The best thing I figured out is to turn Audyssey and any other EQ off and use the REW signal generator to set the levels. I would unhook 1 speaker to do each individually. I would use the speaker pink noise to set the output to 75db, then I would use the sub pink noise and adjust the gain until it was 75dB too. Once the sub matched the mids output level, I would run Audyssey and that is the best results I've gotten.

Gotcha, that makes sence. Hm, do you know if the siginal generator in most AVR's are white noise or pink noise? I'll have to try with REW's pink noise. I just replaced a bad amp in one of the towers so I'll have to work on retuning everything again. Not sure when the amp went bad since it still worked, was just very quite commoned to the other tower.
post #29118 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Gotcha, that makes sence. Hm, do you know if the siginal generator in most AVR's are white noise or pink noise? I'll have to try with REW's pink noise. I just replaced a bad amp in one of the towers so I'll have to work on retuning everything again. Not sure when the amp went bad since it still worked, was just very quite commoned to the other tower.

I think all speaker calibration noise is pink noise. I'm not sure what white noise is even for.
post #29119 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

I think all speaker calibration noise is pink noise. I'm not sure what white noise is even for.
White noise has equal power density across the spectrum. Music doesn't, it drops by 3dB with each octave increase in frequency. Pink noise does the same, so it closely duplicates a music signal for testing purposes.
post #29120 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

I think all speaker calibration noise is pink noise. I'm not sure what white noise is even for.

Curious how you like the BP7000SC compaired to the BP30?
post #29121 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

White noise has equal power density across the spectrum. Music doesn't, it drops by 3dB with each octave increase in frequency. Pink noise does the same, so it closely duplicates a music signal for testing purposes.

Would this mean that is testing/setting levels by ear, use pink noise, if by SPL meter, use white noise?
post #29122 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Would this mean that is testing/setting levels by ear, use pink noise, if by SPL meter, use white noise?

I think you use pink noise for everything and the AVR uses pink noise.

Right now I have BP7000s, BP2000TLs, and BP30s. Testing in my smaller rectangular bedroom, the mids/highs all sounded the same to me and my brother. The BP30s have a good amount of bass for not having a sub, but the other two had insane bass in the bedroom. The BP2000s hit 120dB peaks during music and the 7000s hit 123dB, though that's not a very scientific measurement. In my larger, open, stupid shaped living room, the 7000s can only hit 106dB during the same song, the same level that my 15" subs can hit.

I only played with the BP30s in the living room once and only ran Audyssey once, but I preferred the mids on the 2000s and 7000s for some reason. Maybe because they are a little taller and it puts the mids/tweeter is a little better vertical position, I'm not sure. The 2000s and 7000s sound about the same at normal listening levels though. If you turn them up loud, then the bass on the 7000s sounds better. For what they cost though, I would never pick 7000s over the much cheaper 2000s.

My plan now is to build 4 18" subs which should outperform my current 15's and the 7000s by ~10-12dB, so I would have no need for the powered towers, not that I need them now. So I'm going to sell the 7000s and either use the 2000TLs in the living room (just because I got them for ridiculously cheap), or sell those as well and get another pair of BP30s. The difference in price between BP30s and BP2000s is pretty small though, so having the sealed mids and 15" sub to help blend my low end might be worth keeping the 2000s.
post #29123 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

I think you use pink noise for everything and the AVR uses pink noise.
+1.
post #29124 of 30949
Wow, great info. Thank you. I'm a bit surprised you didn't find the highs on the bp7000sc to be brighter or more detailed. I think def tech reworked the crossovers for the bp7000sc.
post #29125 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Wow, great info. Thank you. I'm a bit surprised you didn't find the highs on the bp7000sc to be brighter or more detailed. I think def tech reworked the crossovers for the bp7000sc.

Yeah, I didn't seem to notice anything different. There was probably 15 mins at least between comparisons though, moving the one set out and the other set in and running Audyssey again. It may be different if I A/B'd them at the same time.
post #29126 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

Yeah, I didn't seem to notice anything different. There was probably 15 mins at least between comparisons though, moving the one set out and the other set in and running Audyssey again. It may be different if I A/B'd them at the same time.

OK, if you ran Audyssey on them it's possible if it could have tweaked the sound some compaired to pure direct.
post #29127 of 30949
I've been looking for new speakers and came across a sale from newegg for Mythos Two's for $149.00 with free shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882325029

It seems like a good deal but I'm in need of a full 5.0 (or 7.0) system and I'm not finding the Mythos Three readily available anywhere for a center channel? Are there other Mythos center channels that have the same tweeter and would mate well with the Mythos Two's? What about surrounds?

I'd like to keep budget in the $800 range. So the Two's from newegg seem great, I'm just not sure I can find a center and surrounds to go with them in the right price range.

WAF comes into play to a large degree so the form factor of the Mythos is appealing and the price on the Two's seems good. Unfortunately I don't think using Two's for surrounds will work either due to WAF... I need something smaller or horizontal I think.

These will be mated with a Klipsch RW-12D and driven by a Pioneer SC-1522-K.


Thanks for the help and opinions.
post #29128 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

Wiring diagrams/wiring connection information, and where do the high level amp and crossover assemblies reside in the cabinet?

I was able to find wiring diagrams on the CLR3000 as well as the BP7001's that I'm building. I'm still trying to figure out where the physical locations for the low level amp and crossover are on the CLR3000 however. It looks like the brace that's in the center is about the only place the amp can go, but it's not clear where the crossover attaches. Anybody had there 3000 apart?
post #29129 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

I was able to find wiring diagrams on the CLR3000 as well as the BP7001's that I'm building. I'm still trying to figure out where the physical locations for the low level amp and crossover are on the CLR3000 however. It looks like the brace that's in the center is about the only place the amp can go, but it's not clear where the crossover attaches. Anybody had there 3000 apart?

My 3000 is currently apart, coming up on a month for Definitive's incredibly slow amp repair. I can look and see where the crossover is and take some pics later tonight. The one amp is on the brace right behind the amp panel held in with 4 screws I think.
post #29130 of 30949
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

I was able to find wiring diagrams on the CLR3000 as well as the BP7001's that I'm building. I'm still trying to figure out where the physical locations for the low level amp and crossover are on the CLR3000 however. It looks like the brace that's in the center is about the only place the amp can go, but it's not clear where the crossover attaches. Anybody had there 3000 apart?

Finally got the amp back from repair 25 days later. Here are some pics of where the amp goes and the crossover.

http://imgur.com/a/jN7Bm

Edit: The amp is still defective too, great.
Edited by bradthebold88 - 4/25/13 at 5:45pm
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