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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 973

post #29161 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by tibz35 View Post

You guys at Def Tech are truly amazing. Customer service goes such a long way in my book because most companies do not understand it...

So I took apart my BP7006 tower and had this awful scratching sound coming out of one 4.5" speaker. I took the speaker out, tested it separately and it worked fine. Figured it was wiring or the crossover. I actually tried the rear 4.5" driver separately and found out that it was the one that was either blown or defective. So I found the issue...I then examined my left side tower and found it wasn't as loud as the one I was just working on...I spent some time trying to figure it out, and noticed that one of those drivers were also pooched...So I called TJ @ Def Tech and he helped me out with replacements...

Hopefully I get these in a few days and I'll be back up and running : ) I've had a TON of speakers before and haven't blown any, so would you happen to know what to watch out for in the future if this was actually my doing?

I'm using a Denon AVR-989 which is about 110w per channel, and I thought this would be enough power...I've contemplated going with a 5x200w amp for the whole system to avoid any clipping...
Hi Tibz, all kinds of things can result in blown speakers, but it's usually a case of over-driving. It is always hard to say how much power someone needs, because room sizes and individuall customer preferences (i.e., how loud is loud?) play a part. More clean power can be a good thing, as distortion from an amp is bad for drivers, and it should sound better too... but more power doesn't guarantee that you'll never have issues with blown drivers. I hope this helps - best, Joe
post #29162 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hello Brad, I am sorry that you haven’t had a good experience with our efforts to help you. We strive for great customer service and we are proud of our track record. As KJS and others have noted, there is an audible thumping sound on turn on / turn off with some of the older products, including the CLR 3000. It isn’t characteristic of most of our designs (and isn't found in any of our designs of the past 5 years or so). Having spoken to our customer service team, I believe that they legitimately thought you had a defective amp when they suggested you send it in.
But after extensive testing our techs could not replicate the problem you spoke of while it was on our tech bench. Electronics occasionally display “situational” or environmental issues; that is, problems unique to that environment, which are notoriously hard to fix. They now believe that you may have an outlet that isn’t grounded properly, causing that thud, thud. Regardless, Adam will contact you, and I believe we can get this worked through so that you are a happy customer again. Thanks again Brad – best regards, Joe

Thanks for the followup Joe. The interference was actually from my wireless router, so trying another outlet just moved it away from the router. When I unplugged the router where the speaker normally is, the constantly little thuds stopped. So I would guess the repair tech wouldn't have even been able to replicate that symptom. The loud pair of thuds when the amp automatically turns on and off occurs on every outlet I've tested though with the amp hooked up multiple ways and when it isn't hooked to anything at all. If this is normal, I don't know what the tech tried to repair then. I haven't talked to Adam yet, but he seemed to have no experience with the CLR3000. The thuds are loud enough you can feel them through the ground and couch when it happens and are startling if you aren't paying attention. A quiet audible sound would be mildly irritating, but tolerable. Being so loud that it is tactile seems like an issue, or at best a very confusing/poor design choice. My girlfriend refuses to allow it in the living room because it is too loud.
post #29163 of 30932
I just got an email from Adam actually. He said the tech thought the problem was intermittent (despite my included note exactly describing what happens), so he just went ahead and refurbished it hoping that would fix the problem. He said Definitive would refund my money for the repair, as well as pay for shipping back to the tech to perform a free modification on the low level panel that should help address the 'normal' thudding volume. He also said it would be a higher priority, so the turn around would hopefully be less than a month this time.

So despite being without my amp for a month and having a disappointing repair process and result, Definitive offered more than I expected to help take care of it. Hopefully the modification will make the on/off sounds tolerable so I can actually use the center.

That said, I would still be surprised if it was normal to thud so loud you could feel it through the floor.
post #29164 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

I just got an email from Adam actually. He said the tech thought the problem was intermittent (despite my included note exactly describing what happens), so he just went ahead and refurbished it hoping that would fix the problem. He said Definitive would refund my money for the repair, as well as pay for shipping back to the tech to perform a free modification on the low level panel that should help address the 'normal' thudding volume. He also said it would be a higher priority, so the turn around would hopefully be less than a month this time.

So despite being without my amp for a month and having a disappointing repair process and result, Definitive offered more than I expected to help take care of it. Hopefully the modification will make the on/off sounds tolerable so I can actually use the center.

That said, I would still be surprised if it was normal to thud so loud you could feel it through the floor.
Hi Brad, it's good to hear that we are making progress. Again, it's a discontinued product that may have been manufactured in the range of 10 - 13 years ago. Our design and manufacturing methods have come a long way since then. Even though you carefully noted what you experienced, every tech dreads the problem that he cannot seem to replicate once it's on his bench. It's so much easier when something is just plain broken, nada, no-workie! I am glad we have offered more than you expected, and I hope you'll be back in action soon. Best, Joe
post #29165 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

Does anyone know when the amp design changed for the CLR 3000? I bought two new ones towards the end of the production but I have the older rectangular plates. So I am assuming what I got wasn't actually new but old stock and possibly used. I bought them in Sept of 2010.

Greetings Toknow,
I don't have an answer for you yet am curious as well - I have one of each.
Ironically (and I'm a bit embarrassed to admit), given the years between looking at their rears, I never knew/remembered they were actually different. Just noticed it this year... biggrin.gif

I thought about sending the serial numbers to DT support to see if they could give me the ~production dates etc.

Cheers
post #29166 of 30932
Joe its customer service like this which is why I always recommend DT to family and friends.
post #29167 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post

Joe its customer service like this which is why I always recommend DT to family and friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

Greetings Toknow,
I don't have an answer for you yet am curious as well - I have one of each.
Ironically (and I'm a bit embarrassed to admit), given the years between looking at their rears, I never knew/remembered they were actually different. Just noticed it this year... biggrin.gif

I thought about sending the serial numbers to DT support to see if they could give me the ~production dates etc.

Cheers
I am glad to hear it U of A smile.gif
KJ, I have found out that the square amps were last manufactured around 2001 / 2002, and the amps became rectangular at that point. I hope this helps - best, Joe
post #29168 of 30932
-BP7006 for front left and right
-CLR2300 for center

Would there be any benefit (Or would it even matter) if you hooked up the the sub from each of the above speakers to the respective pre-out from the receiver? For example I have a denon AVR-989 which has pre-outs for each channel. Would it make any difference by having the line go from the receiver pre-out (Front left, Front Right and Center) to the speakers? This compared to splitting the sub channel 2 or 3 ways.
post #29169 of 30932
Joe,

So the rectangular amps are the newer version? I thought it was the other way around and the square ones were the newer design. Thanks for the information.

Still loving my DefTech setup. My last upgrade was was replacing my BP2Xs with UIW RLS IIIs. The room was narrow and it was a tight fit walking between the speakers and seats in the aisle.

I am running 3-CLR3000s in the front, UIW RLS IIIs for the side surrounds and ProMonitor 100 MKIIs for the rears.
post #29170 of 30932
Hello just wanted to post this in room before deciding to put on Craigslist or Ebay but just bought myself a Onkyo 5009 and selling my Onkyo 3007 receiver its in mint condition not a mark on it. Comes with all original packing manual microphone remote original box etc.Its a beast of a reciever. Only reason selling is could not pass up the price on 5009. If someone would like pictures or more info just send me a message.

Also have a pair of BP7001's for sale
post #29171 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post


I am glad to hear it U of A smile.gif
KJ, I have found out that the square amps were last manufactured around 2001 / 2002, and the amps became rectangular at that point. I hope this helps - best, Joe

Just checked-The complete CLR3000 in my HT that I bought from Baja a couple years ago has a rectangle amp plate. The cabinet and amps I just bought from Baja to build a second one have the smaller more square size plate. I had it backwards apparently-Thought the parts I just bought were for the later models. Brad that had to send his off for repair has the newer style, so it looks like DT has only the older complete amps available anymore.
Edited by StevenC56 - 5/1/13 at 9:40pm
post #29172 of 30932
That is strange, though I had just assumed the rectangular ones were older because they no longer had those amps. An update on my repair as well, they decided to just modify a high level amp they had and send it to me so I wouldn't have to deal with shipping mine back and forth again. They are really making up for how this repair started.
post #29173 of 30932
FYI y'all Denon has released their new AVRs. The X4000 can process 9 channels, 7 are amped. Audyssey XT 32! Retail price is 1299 but one could find better. This woul be a great reason to buy some more DT speakers !
post #29174 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by tibz35 View Post

-BP7006 for front left and right
-CLR2300 for center

Would there be any benefit (Or would it even matter) if you hooked up the the sub from each of the above speakers to the respective pre-out from the receiver? For example I have a denon AVR-989 which has pre-outs for each channel. Would it make any difference by having the line go from the receiver pre-out (Front left, Front Right and Center) to the speakers? This compared to splitting the sub channel 2 or 3 ways.

i have BP7001sc's and CLR 3000 and run this configuration to my speakers. I have never ran just speaker wire to my powered towers. i had a powered sub hooked up to my mains for awhile before getting the 7001's. I never liked the way the sub sounded when i had it hooked up with speaker wire, so i ran it using the left and right main pre out. With speaker wire the sub sounded real boomy. I carried this over when i got the powered towers. best you can do is try both and see what sounds better to you.
I like the idea of having a FULL range speaker for each channel. I also have a supercube for LFE. I purchased towers with powered subs for the purpose of having a powered subwoofer for the distinct channel. someday i will round out my system and get powered towers for surround.
Edited by ntculenuf - 5/2/13 at 6:48pm
post #29175 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntculenuf View Post

i have BP7001sc's and CLR 3000 and run this configuration to my speakers. I have never ran just speaker wire to my powered towers. i had a powered sub hooked up to my mains for awhile before getting the 7001's. I never liked the way the sub sounded when i had it hooked up with speaker wire, so i ran it using the left and right main pre out. With speaker wire the sub sounded real boomy. I carried this over when i got the powered towers. best you can do is try both and see what sounds better to you.
I like the idea of having a FULL range speaker for each channel. I also have a supercube for LFE. I purchased towers with powered subs for the purpose of having a powered subwoofer for the distinct channel. someday i will round out my system and make get powered towers for surround.

So how do you have them setup? Large or small and what crossover frequency?
post #29176 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

That is strange, though I had just assumed the rectangular ones were older because they no longer had those amps. An update on my repair as well, they decided to just modify a high level amp they had and send it to me so I wouldn't have to deal with shipping mine back and forth again. They are really making up for how this repair started.
I'm guessing that they didn't mass produce the newer amp since the CLR 3000 was not a large volume unit. It's a great speaker but it was expensive for its application.
post #29177 of 30932
I have the BP8060 toweres. Cs8060 and sr8040-bp. I have them connected to a onkyo nr818. I currently have them hooked up with no lfe. Should they be set up with lfe or without.
post #29178 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by tibz35 View Post

So how do you have them setup? Large or small and what crossover frequency?


i let audyssey do it's thing. it crossed the left, center, right at 40hz. Everything sounds great. at first i thought i should change it so they were full range but after doing some reading on this form i left it at 40. I have a nice seamless sound from front to back and subwoofer.
post #29179 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

FYI y'all Denon has released their new AVRs. The X4000 can process 9 channels, 7 are amped. Audyssey XT 32! Retail price is 1299 but one could find better. This woul be a great reason to buy some more DT speakers !

Stoked! I have a denon 2808 with XT and its grown on me. Especially for bass eq. Can't wait to see what xt32 can do.
post #29180 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post


I am glad to hear it U of A smile.gif
KJ, I have found out that the square amps were last manufactured around 2001 / 2002, and the amps became rectangular at that point. I hope this helps - best, Joe

That's truly funny in that I would have bet the farm that the square was the newer design.... biggrin.gif. I did notice however the other day that the rectangular amp has the newer looking serial number stamp.

The square amp/CLR3000 has 250watts. The rectangular amp CLR3000 has 350watts.

Thanks Joe!
Edited by KJSmitty - 5/2/13 at 8:46pm
post #29181 of 30932
Really? Is that what's on the amp itself? 350? Sweet!
post #29182 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Really? Is that what's on the amp itself? 350? Sweet!

Yes,
But I did have to correct my post above however. The square amp actually has 250watts.

Cheers
post #29183 of 30932
The DT website specs and owners manual lists the CLR3000 subwoofer amp as 150 watts. The watt rating on them I believe is the A/C current draw which is a UL requirement.
post #29184 of 30932
I decided to return the denon 2313ci and pre-order x4000. I cant wait for it to come out! Double the price, but what sold me was the ability to EQ two subs and have MultEQ® XT32. As a plus it has Audyssey LFC (Low Frequency Containment).

I think this AVR will be a better match for my DT 8000 series speakers.
post #29185 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carminus View Post

I decided to return the denon 2313ci and pre-order x4000. I cant wait for it to come out! Double the price, but what sold me was the ability to EQ two subs and have MultEQ® XT32. As a plus it has Audyssey LFC (Low Frequency Containment).

I think this AVR will be a better match for my DT 8000 series speakers.

Sweet, did you order from Denon's site? Let me know how it is. I'm interested in that AVR as well. So many inputs and outputs, but Audyssey XT32 is probably my main want smile.gif How are you going to wire the sub outputs?
post #29186 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Sweet, did you order from Denon's site? Let me know how it is. I'm interested in that AVR as well. So many inputs and outputs, but Audyssey XT32 is probably my main want smile.gif How are you going to wire the sub outputs?

Well I will try out a few things. jlpowell84 has given me a lot insight on where to start with the DT 8000's. Still rather new to these type of speakers. My last set were clr2002's

First trial will be:

Just wires on the cs-8060hd.
Assign each sub pre-out to the bp-8040st's lfe port
run a round of audyssey

Second trial will be

3x lfe
Use a Y on sub out 1 for the 8040st
Use a slm meter to lvl match on the 8040st (test each speaker sub one at a time from main listening spot) 72db
Connect sub 2 for the cs-8060hd
run a round of audyssey

I pre-ordered from crutch.
post #29187 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carminus View Post

Well I will try out a few things. jlpowell84 has given me a lot insight on where to start with the DT 8000's. Still rather new to these type of speakers. My last set were clr2002's

First trial will be:

Just wires on the cs-8060hd.
Assign each sub pre-out to the bp-8040st's lfe port
run a round of audyssey

Second trial will be

3x lfe
Use a Y on sub out 1 for the 8040st
Use a slm meter to lvl match on the 8040st (test each speaker sub one at a time from main listening spot) 72db
Connect sub 2 for the cs-8060hd
run a round of audyssey

I pre-ordered from crutch.
post #29188 of 30932
And the difference for a y splitter to the two towers and the other lfe out to the center would be the Denon X4000 has Sub EQ HT which is for setup of more than one sub (technically Audyssey will think the two towers connected y splitter via lfe are one sub. Which is why it's important to level match). This is an advantage over the 2313 if you wanted to run all front 3 lfe because the L/R towers will be a greater distance than the center to the MLP.
post #29189 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

And the difference for a y splitter to the two towers and the other lfe out to the center would be the Denon X4000 has Sub EQ HT which is for setup of more than one sub (technically Audyssey will think the two towers connected y splitter via lfe are one sub. Which is why it's important to level match). This is an advantage over the 2313 if you wanted to run all front 3 lfe because the L/R towers will be a greater distance than the center to the MLP.

The towers should be the same distance from the listening position though, so they would get set with the same delay anyways, so it shouldn't be different than any other version of Audyssey. If for some reason they are different distances, then it could have a positive effect. I don't know why you would run LFE to the center either, it doesn't sound like a good idea and Definitive specifically says not to. If you did run LFE to the center, then it could delay it different than the towers.

Properly setting the speakers up, Sub EQ should have no effect if you don't have dedicated subwoofers and are just using equal distant towers for LFE. The center has a small, lower power sub that is only meant to help extend the frequency response of that channel, not act as a dedicated LFE channel. Getting Sub EQ specifically for this reason would most likely just make your system sound worse. Trying to push LFE though the center will just cause it to distort and sound bad, and with no high pass filter, I would guess it could damage it. If you're running it hot and send a <20Hz signal to it, I'm sure it wouldn't be happy.
post #29190 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

The towers should be the same distance from the listening position though, so they would get set with the same delay anyways, so it shouldn't be different than any other version of Audyssey. If for some reason they are different distances, then it could have a positive effect. I don't know why you would run LFE to the center either, it doesn't sound like a good idea and Definitive specifically says not to. If you did run LFE to the center, then it could delay it different than the towers.

Properly setting the speakers up, Sub EQ should have no effect if you don't have dedicated subwoofers and are just using equal distant towers for LFE. The center has a small, lower power sub that is only meant to help extend the frequency response of that channel, not act as a dedicated LFE channel. Getting Sub EQ specifically for this reason would most likely just make your system sound worse. Trying to push LFE though the center will just cause it to distort and sound bad, and with no high pass filter, I would guess it could damage it. If you're running it hot and send a <20Hz signal to it, I'm sure it wouldn't be happy.

One other thing: since Audyssey XT32 has the same 512x resolution for both speakers and subs (unlike earlier versions of Audyssey), you don't need to run your towers though LFE connections either. You can run all three speakers on speaker wire, and XT32 will give them individual delay settings and trims.

Having said that, getting a Denon with XT32 is definitely an upgrade over a MultiEQ XT version of Audyssey, even if you don't neccessarily need Sub HT for the towers. OTOH, if Carminus also has two standalone subs (or may down the road, if he finds the towers lower bass doesn't reach down far enough), Sub EQ HT is useful for the independent sub inputs allowing them to also have fhe independent delay amd trim as well.

Regardless, having the towers level matched (and more to the point, the 'sub' and 'non-sub' sections of each tower and the center) is good advice.
Edited by sdrucker - 5/4/13 at 9:00am
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