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Definitive Owners Thread - Page 979

post #29341 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

For the new prices, I don't think it's worth it. But if the difference between a pair of BP30s and a pair of BP2000's is only $200-300, then the idea is a lot more appealing. For the $1000 price difference between SM65's and 8060 towers isn't worth it for just the sub, but the SM's aren't bipolar either though, so there's even more difference between them.

If there were a sub-less tower, that would be a better comparison I think.

Oh yea I forgot the bipolar aspect. This is my first quality setup, actually my first setup. So I really don't know how it would be without bipolar speakers. Although I have been making it a point to listen for the expanded soundstage recently. There used to be a small business here in Eugene, OR called the tweeter brothers. They would custom build for for fairly decent prices. But after materials and labor you could just buy a set of powered ones probably.
post #29342 of 30932
I would be interested to hear the output differences and sound between the SM 65's and 8060 st....if anyone does this report back...smile.gif
post #29343 of 30932
I have been reading about bipolar speakers and the difficulty to place them. what had been your experience?

Here is the layout of the room. Please ignore the front L/R speaker markings, it will be much closer to the Tv and away from the back wall by atleast 2 feet.

Do you think the promonitor 1000 would be a good surround speakers for this size room.

post #29344 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

I would be interested to hear the output differences and sound between the SM 65's and 8060 st....if anyone does this report back...smile.gif
Hi Josh, JLP and friends, yes, the SM 65 is a great product for the money, and we're doing really well with it. Yes, the BP 8060 is roughly 2 x the money at $1999 for the pair. But it has huge market share at it's price point, because the difference is not simply that it has more bass than the SM 65 due to the powered sub in each tower. It also has substantially better midrange and mid-bass output. The bipolar technology also creates an absolutely wonderful sound stage, and you won't miss that in an A / B comparison. "Is it worth the extra money"? Only you can answer that question, same as only you know whether a $35,000 retail car is worth twice what a $18,000 retail car would cost. But there's no question from a performance standpoint that the BP 8060 ST is a better product, and one of the best sellers in our history. I hope this helps - best, Joe
PS - sorry that I have been absent from the site for a while! I've been traveling like a crazy man smile.gif
post #29345 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post

I have been reading about bipolar speakers and the difficulty to place them. what had been your experience?

Here is the layout of the room. Please ignore the front L/R speaker markings, it will be much closer to the Tv and away from the back wall by atleast 2 feet.

Do you think the promonitor 1000 would be a good surround speakers for this size room.

Hello Sid, thanks for posting this. The ProCinema 1000 is a great value, but it is not a bipolar speaker system. Bipolar towers are not much more difficult to place than other high quality tower speakers. If you butt any tower directly up against the wall, it won't give you the soundstage and imaging that it is capable of. Ideally you'd like towers to be pulled out at least 6" to a foot away from the wall, and that's also true of our bipolar towers. The ProCinema 1000 system sounds great - but you have effectively a very large room here, because of the open floor plan. If you can, visit a few stores with one of your favorite CD's and / or DVD's (music videos are usually good demos), and hear the systems for yourself. ProMonitor 1000 are popular choices for the rear speakers, but you might also take a look at SR 8040 BP surrounds, which are dedicated surround models and not too much more money. I hope this helps - Best, Joe
post #29346 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post

I have been reading about bipolar speakers and the difficulty to place them. what had been your experience?

Here is the layout of the room. Please ignore the front L/R speaker markings, it will be much closer to the Tv and away from the back wall by atleast 2 feet.

Do you think the promonitor 1000 would be a good surround speakers for this size room.


I just put mine on a wall about 7 ft apart toed in directly at the MLP. About 12 inches off the wall. I have an open dining room to the left. I didn't experience any trouble. I did have them slightly tied in at first. When I toed them in to fire directly at the MLP I had better sound
post #29347 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hello Sid, thanks for posting this. The ProCinema 1000 is a great value, but it is not a bipolar speaker system. Bipolar towers are not much more difficult to place than other high quality tower speakers. If you butt any tower directly up against the wall, it won't give you the soundstage and imaging that it is capable of. Ideally you'd like towers to be pulled out at least 6" to a foot away from the wall, and that's also true of our bipolar towers. The ProCinema 1000 system sounds great - but you have effectively a very large room here, because of the open floor plan. If you can, visit a few stores with one of your favorite CD's and / or DVD's (music videos are usually good demos), and hear the systems for yourself. ProMonitor 1000 are popular choices for the rear speakers, but you might also take a look at SR 8040 BP surrounds, which are dedicated surround models and not too much more money. I hope this helps - Best, Joe

i can't mound any speakers on the wall, thats a NO NO from wife. so I have to get a book shelve type speakers than be mounted on a stand.

Any suggestions
post #29348 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post

I went to listen to the BP8040ST and BP8060ST yesterday and I liked the sound, but when I switched between the B&W 684, I think the B&W684 sounded a little more open.

I turned down the bass on the BP8040 and still the B&W684 had a slight edge in terms of clear and open sound. I also found that the BP8060ST to be comparable to the 8040.

I am now interested to listen to the mythos STS and see how they sound but there is no store in my area which carries them. All they have are the Mythos XTR, are these comparable to the STS. or do the STS sound completely different.
Hello Sid, the Mythos STS are tower speakers, whereas the XTR is our plasma-flanking, on wall product. They are in very different categories and sound quite a bit different from each other. Take a look at the products part of our web site and let me know if I can help further - best, Joe http://www.definitivetech.com/products/
post #29349 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post

i can't mound any speakers on the wall, thats a NO NO from wife. so I have to get a book shelve type speakers than be mounted on a stand.

Any suggestions
Hi Sid, have you taken a look at our SM 65, 55 and 45 bookshelf speakers? They are getting great reviews and audio buffs really love them. They are bookshelf types, so they fit relatively easily. Let me know if I can help further - best, Joe http://www.definitivetech.com/products/bookshelf-speakers/
post #29350 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakulsk View Post

Got a question not sure this is the right place.

I am building a media room in my basement. it is not a dedicated room, but a corner of the basement. Need to choose some speakers. I love Def Tech, have them in my living room. That said should I do

LCR with UIW RLS III and the 4 surrounds with UIW BP/A with IW Sub 10/10 + Sub Amp 600

OR

Martin Logan ElectroMotion IW for LCR and 4 ElectroMotion IC surrounds with Dynamo 1000 Sub that a local deal recomended?

Also anyone purchased from designeraudiovideo.com? Their prices seem too good to be true. Can you recommend a good online dealer?
Hi Nakulsk, I'd recommend the Definitive system... but of course, I am biased smile.gif. Call or e mail if you want to discuss further - 800-228-7148 or info@definitivetech.com. Best, Joe
post #29351 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

If you are going to get an HSU sub you might look into some non powered towers which unfortunately DT doesn't offer with the newer driver components. So maybe some studio monitors? With a dedicated sub the powered towers IMO are unnecessary money spent. I know the sound is a little different with the towers but crossing them at 80 hz really renders the towers subs as super expensive upper bass subs. You would get a little action between 80-150 ish hz with roll offs. I just happened to jump on a good deal, and I decided on my sub afterward. And I have learned tons since then.
Hello JLP, Josh, and others who have commented on the powered vs. non-powered idea, I want to offer some thoughts from my own experience. There seems to be much confusion about how crossovers work, and whether a powered tower without the sub - but with an external sub added - would sound just the same as the powered tower with subs added.
The confusion I think comes from not realizing that crossovers are not brick-wall filters, allowing no frequencies above their operating range... not at all! Crossovers are instead frequency points, above which frequencies are gradually rolled off. Without graphing it, think of the difference between the ledge on your window as having a 90 degree drop-off at the point where it meets the wall. A ball rolled along that ledge will drop like a stone as soon as it crosses the edge.
Crossover networks instead roll off like hills that gradually descend to the valley. A powered woofer that is crossed over at, say, 80 Hz is having LOTS of effect from the 80 - 150 or so range, with harmonics way up above that. I am regularly astonished at how a good subwoofer, blended correctly, can make the mid-range tones, and even the imaging, of a speaker sound better. Why? Because the sub, when blended properly with the mid-bass drivers, is working WITH them, not against them. One advantage of powered towers is that the engineers have already blended the performance characteristics of the mid-bass and the powered woofer in a way that they play well together.
Also, because the amp and driver ship in the same box as the rest of the speaker, you get great value.
A pair of BP 8040 ST's retails for $1,600. But the same speakers without the amp / sub combination, with a pair of separate powered subwoofers, would retail somewhere in the $2,500 range. That's not to say that separate subs aren't also a wonderful thing, especially in a larger room and / or for consumers who love to play it loud - which I do! But the cost efficiencies in manufacturing and shipping two cartons rather than four works in the consumer's favor with powered towers, if they're done right. I hope this helps - best, Joe
Edited by joeatdefinitive - 5/24/13 at 10:18am
post #29352 of 30932
Thanks for the clarification Joe...smile.gif....I still love my 8060-ST's and could never part with them...smile.gif.... There just too good!
post #29353 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hello JLP, Josh, and others who have commented on the powered vs. non-powered idea, I want to offer some thoughts from my own experience. There seems to be much confusion about how crossovers work, and whether a powered tower without the sub - but with an external sub added - would sound just the same as the powered tower with subs added.
The confusion I think comes from not realizing that crossovers are not brick-wall filters, allowing no frequencies above their operating range... not at all! Crossovers are instead frequency points, above which frequencies are gradually rolled off. Without graphing it, think of the difference between the ledge on your window as having a 90 degree drop-off at the point where it meets the wall. A ball rolled along that ledge will drop like a stone as soon as it crosses the edge.
Crossover networks instead roll off like hills that gradually descend to the valley. A powered woofer that is crossed over at, say, 80 Hz is having LOTS of effect from the 80 - 150 or so range, with harmonics way up above that. I am regularly astonished at how a good subwoofer, blended correctly, can make the mid-range tones, and even the imaging, of a speaker sound better. Why? Because the sub, when blended properly with the mid-bass drivers, is working WITH them, not against them. One advantage of powered towers is that the engineers have already blended the performance characteristics of the mid-bass and the powered woofer in a way that they play well together.
Also, because the amp and driver ship in the same box as the rest of the speaker, you get great value.
A pair of BP 8040 ST's retails for $1,600. But the same speakers without the amp / sub combination, with a pair of separate powered subwoofers, would retail somewhere in the $2,500 range. That's not to say that separate subs aren't also a wonderful thing, especially in a larger room and / or for consumers who love to play it loud - which I do! But the cost efficiencies in manufacturing and shipping two cartons rather than four works in the consumer's favor with powered towers, if they're done right. I hope this helps - best, Joe

First, I understand how the roll offs work. I even think if money were not an issue blending powered towers crossed at 80hz with dedicated subs may offer better frequency responses vs non powered towers or studio monitors. But all that is simply opinion unless we did some actual comparison measurements. We do know great responses have been measured from studio monitor to sub transitions. Who knows the standard for the best sound experience in 20 years may be powered towers with dedicated subs with the transitions from sub to tower sub to midrange to tweeters.

Also everybody is different. One may be satisfied with the woofers in powered towers and the next may want dual seaton subversives. Lets not kid ourselves though. The quality of bass and the flattened response below 40hz of some quality of separate subs is levels above just built in tower subs. Many don't know because few have experienced a response flattened to 10hz.
post #29354 of 30932
Again I will say the 8060 towers are the best value on the market if a separate sub is not sought after. I will still keep mine for the blending reasons described above regardless. Unless future measurements prove otherwise.
post #29355 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hi Sid, have you taken a look at our SM 65, 55 and 45 bookshelf speakers? They are getting great reviews and audio buffs really love them. They are bookshelf types, so they fit relatively easily. Let me know if I can help further - best, Joe http://www.definitivetech.com/products/bookshelf-speakers/

Since the SM45 etc are not BP speakers would they all sound well in a 5.1 with the BP8060 and center in the front?
post #29356 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

eBay/Bajawaverunner "IS" an AUTHORIZED Definitive store for factory new and remanufactured Definitive speakers and parts/electronics.

It's not listed here: http://www.definitivetech.com/dealers/online.
post #29357 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivatech View Post

It's not listed here: http://www.definitivetech.com/dealers/online.

No argument there... biggrin.gif. That's because he isn't a "Retailer". He doesnt sell retail packaged items. But he is an authorized Definitive seller for the Definitive parts, pieces and complete speakers that he does sell. If he has something you need/want you can rest assured its a genuine Definitive piece. His customer service has been excellent as well.

Cheers
post #29358 of 30932
Yes, I looked the refurb and they don't have the 8060ST, do they ever have them?

Newegg is also running a deal on the BP8B, but not sure how these compare to the BP8040 or the BP8060 series.

I think if i go with def tech I have figured out the front - BP8060ST

Don't know about which center to get and which surround. I bet the surrounds have to be BP as well to have an even match all across the speakers?

these speakers are expensive, almost close to Paradigm Studio 60 which is the other brand I am looking at? Anyone did any comparison and if so what did you find?
post #29359 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivatech View Post

It's not listed here: http://www.definitivetech.com/dealers/online.

No argument there... biggrin.gif. That's because he isn't a "Retailer". He doesnt sell retail packaged items. But he is an authorized Definitive seller for the Definitive parts, pieces and complete speakers that he does sell. If he has something you need/want you can rest assured its a genuine Definitive piece. His customer service has been excellent as well.

In the interest of absolute clarity, from bajawaverunner's page:

"These speakers are not covered by a manufacturer warranty (Definitive Technology will not validate any warranty regarding speakers sold through bajawaverunner). We do offer a 30 day exchange policy from time of purchase; if items are defective (meaning: dead on arrival or electronic components malfunctioning) or not as described (meaning: Major Cosmetic flaw)."

You can get some great prices here, but be clear that you will have no warranty support from DT. I can attest that this vendor keeps its promises regarding replacement of defective merchandise (they expedited the swap of a DOA SCIII, shipping the replacement immediately without getting the bad one back first), but if you go this route be prepared to diagnose, source replacement parts, and repair your own speakers if necessary.
post #29360 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

In the interest of absolute clarity, from bajawaverunner's page:

"These speakers are not covered by a manufacturer warranty (Definitive Technology will not validate any warranty regarding speakers sold through bajawaverunner). We do offer a 30 day exchange policy from time of purchase; if items are defective (meaning: dead on arrival or electronic components malfunctioning) or not as described (meaning: Major Cosmetic flaw)."

You can get some great prices here, but be clear that you will have no warranty support from DT. I can attest that this vendor keeps its promises regarding replacement of defective merchandise (they expedited the swap of a DOA SCIII, shipping the replacement immediately without getting the bad one back first), but if you go this route be prepared to diagnose, source replacement parts, and repair your own speakers if necessary.

Thanks, I was planning on saving some $$ and buying from him, thinking that like other manufacturer Polk etc sell their refurb and have at least 2 year warranty. I am surprised that the refurb def tech don't have any warranty.

Will have to wait longer now to save more $$$$ to buy these DF speakers.
post #29361 of 30932
Here's a question for some of you: my current setup is 3.1 with sm350 and c/l/r 2002. I was planning that my upgrade to a 5.1 system would be purchasing bp-2x from craigslist. However, with the sm350 at $200 on newegg, should I consider just getting a pair of these for surrounds?
post #29362 of 30932
I've got SM350s as surrounds and I love them! I got mine for $179/pr at newegg about 5 months ago. You should consider them for sure!
post #29363 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post

Yes, I looked the refurb and they don't have the 8060ST, do they ever have them?

Newegg is also running a deal on the BP8B, but not sure how these compare to the BP8040 or the BP8060 series.

I think if i go with def tech I have figured out the front - BP8060ST

Don't know about which center to get and which surround. I bet the surrounds have to be BP as well to have an even match all across the speakers?

these speakers are expensive, almost close to Paradigm Studio 60 which is the other brand I am looking at? Anyone did any comparison and if so what did you find?
Hello Sid, just to clarify, the BP 8 is a discontinued model and is an older design than the BP 8000 series products. They are still very good sounding though.
The 8060's are wonderful front speakers and you will love them.
The surrounds do not necessarily have to be bipolar. But lots of folks love using bipolar for the rear speakers, because you get a diffuse sound quality that can help to avoid localization effects. We sell lots of SR-8080 and 8040 BP surrounds to folks who don't have bipolar front speakers. They work really well. I hope this helps - best, Joe
post #29364 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hello Sid, just to clarify, the BP 8 is a discontinued model and is an older design than the BP 8000 series products. They are still very good sounding though.
The 8060's are wonderful front speakers and you will love them.
The surrounds do not necessarily have to be bipolar. But lots of folks love using bipolar for the rear speakers, because you get a diffuse sound quality that can help to avoid localization effects. We sell lots of SR-8080 and 8040 BP surrounds to folks who don't have bipolar front speakers. They work really well. I hope this helps - best, Joe

Thanks Joe, its great to see someone from the company actually responding directly to customers/forum members,

Yes i just found out def tech having a sale on their BP8060 package where you could get the center and the surround free for the price of the speakers. I hope they run the same kind of sale soon, else I will have to wait until year end to buy them when they have that sale again.

I think crutchfield also ran the sale last year, will have to keep an eye out for the sale. Does anyone know this a yearly thing for them to have a Def tech sale or did it only happen last year.
post #29365 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post

Thanks Joe, its great to see someone from the company actually responding directly to customers/forum members,

Yes i just found out def tech having a sale on their BP8060 package where you could get the center and the surround free for the price of the speakers. I hope they run the same kind of sale soon, else I will have to wait until year end to buy them when they have that sale again.

I think crutchfield also ran the sale last year, will have to keep an eye out for the sale. Does anyone know this a yearly thing for them to have a Def tech sale or did it only happen last year.

From what I understand it didn't happen before and that DT doesn't do sales very much
post #29366 of 30932
i have my sm 350s for surrounds in my new ascend system they sound great.
post #29367 of 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjaurelio View Post

Here's a question for some of you: my current setup is 3.1 with sm350 and c/l/r 2002. I was planning that my upgrade to a 5.1 system would be purchasing bp-2x from craigslist. However, with the sm350 at $200 on newegg, should I consider just getting a pair of these for surrounds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swallan View Post

i have my sm 350s for surrounds in my new ascend system they sound great.

Yep, the 350's are a stout little speaker, still have a pair of them along with a CLR2002 in the kids garage setup.

post #29368 of 30932
Anyone ever hear from otk? It has been a long time since he has been on AVS, and this main DT thread. I've pm'd him and have never heard from him, as we shared many a pm over the years. I really hope he is okay, yet it makes one wonder after all the years he was on here and then nothing.......frown.gif I was floored when I heard about Kosty, so I'm hoping all is well with our DT guru otk.
post #29369 of 30932
i still have my clr 2002 great speaker for the money had it paired with the sm 350s for my front soundstage had the setup for about 10 years when we got the ascend system we moved the sm 350s for surrounds put the clr 2002 away because we got the horizon center from ascend.
post #29370 of 30932
Anyone looking for some towers im selling a couple pairs there in mint condition well taken care of send me a message.
BP7001's
BP7002's
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