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CES News: Panasonic SA-XR57 (7.1 ch) - Page 2

post #31 of 459
Now I'm confused...I thought the only difference between the XR55 and the XR70 was the HDMI? Obviously not....so what's the difference between the XR57 and the XR70 now?
post #32 of 459
eurgh sorry - made a comparison table, but messed it all up.

the XR70 is 6.1, has a lowest 100Hz crossover point and a single HDMI I/O
post #33 of 459
Hrmm, this is a very interesting receiver, might make me wait to upgrade. I'd need to know if it did upconversion first.
post #34 of 459
Any info leak if this has more than 2 HDMI and if it will do HDMI upconversion/transcoding - whatever you wanna call it.

I also found this, I don't think anyone mentioned before...

http://www.gadgetreview.com/2006/01/...iver-with.html
post #35 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriuslyCold View Post

bdbaba,

dual amp on XR55 works on single-wired speakers



its the triple-amp that needs biwired speakers


So in theory, in dual-amp mode does that mean we are getting 200wpc at 6 ohms, and in triple-amp mode we are getting 300wpc?

Just curious. I have my Ascend 340s bi-amped now and noticed a small but not really earth-shaking difference.
post #36 of 459
Wish they would come out with a model that had discrete settings for different sources. For instance I like to listen to CDs with my mains on "large" and the subwoofer setting lower than when watching DVDs where I prefer the mains to be on "small" and ramp up the sub a little.
post #37 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by edster922 View Post

So in theory, in dual-amp mode does that mean we are getting 200wpc at 6 ohms, and in triple-amp mode we are getting 300wpc?

Just curious. I have my Ascend 340s bi-amped now and noticed a small but not really earth-shaking difference.

you know, no one's come right out and said that you get a summed total of 100W per amp - not anywhere on the Panny manuals either. maybe someone should take some measurements.
post #38 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriuslyCold View Post

you know, no one's come right out and said that you get a summed total of 100W per amp - not anywhere on the Panny manuals either. maybe someone should take some measurements.

here's some numbers on the xr70, don't know if that helps:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...&page_number=2
post #39 of 459
Any more specs on this? It certainly looks like it adds more then just hdmi to the xr-55, though the CES post doesn't prove that it has hdmi switching (ie. 2 in, one out) as the pics only show two cables (could be one in, one out, ala xr-70). Of course, the hdmi controller tech would be somewhat less useful if you could only connect one device.
post #40 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by edster922 View Post

So in theory, in dual-amp mode does that mean we are getting 200wpc at 6 ohms, and in triple-amp mode we are getting 300wpc?


Not really. The amplifiers are in parallel so the voltage to the speaker is the same. Assuming the speaker impedance is the same, it's the same power to the speakers (V*V/R).

In principle the extra current provided by parallel amps could enable the use of lower impedance speakers but these class D amps have passive output filters and the impedance range is still 6 to 8 ohms. Claims of improved sound quality in Dual-Amp mode could be attributed to many things (e.g. different phasing of the PWM signal to each half of the parallel output stage, extra current at high volume, ...).
post #41 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddjob View Post

Not really. The amplifiers are in parallel so the voltage to the speaker is the same. Assuming the speaker impedance is the same, it's the same power to the speakers (V*V/R).

In principle the extra current provided by parallel amps could enable the use of lower impedance speakers but these class D amps have passive output filters and the impedance range is still 6 to 8 ohms. Claims of improved sound quality in Dual-Amp mode could be attributed to many things (e.g. different phasing of the PWM signal to each half of the parallel output stage, extra current at high volume, ...).

Passive output filters...hm, not sure I even know what that is but your statement seems to imply that there is such a thing as ACTIVE output filters?

In terms of internal parts, what in your opinion would a more audiophile-oriented digital Panny look like? Just curious.

So far from what little we've seen of this xr57, it appears that Panasonic is just adding a few marketing-driven bells and whistles rather than anything substantial.
post #42 of 459
... ought to appease those who complain about the lack of features!

looks like HDMI switching is going to be pretty much standard on all receivers coming out this year
post #43 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by edster922 View Post

Passive output filters...hm, not sure I even know what that is but your statement seems to imply that there is such a thing as ACTIVE output filters?

In terms of internal parts, what in your opinion would a more audiophile-oriented digital Panny look like? Just curious.


The comparison is between analog amplifers such as class A or B which have no requirement for any output filter (although there is typically some passive components to ensure stability) and class D which has to remove the switching frequency from the output, that being 384KHz or 352.8KHz (44.1K CD) for the XR-55. TI recommends an LC filter at the output, and their data sheets give examples.

Analog amplifiers - no output filter
Class D amplifiers - passive output filter

The thing about the Texas Instrument class D implementation on which the XR-nn series is based is that it is highly integrated and there is only so much you can do external to the chipset. The biggest problem for me is that 100W into 6 ohms is not enough power for my large room. Real improvements will come from newer generations of the chipsets. I linked to an article in Electronic Design in another thread that mentioned some specs for the next generation TI chipsets e.g. 0.004% THD+N full power, a monolithic 240W into 4 ohm design, ... The future looks very good for TI class D.
post #44 of 459
240W into 4Ω! wooo!

we forgot to tell GED while at the CES to corner a Panasonic engineer and give him our list of demands.
post #45 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriuslyCold View Post

240W into 4Ω! wooo!
we forgot to tell GED while at the CES to corner a Panasonic engineer and give him our list of demands.

And he could have added that our "demands" are non-negotiable.

David
post #46 of 459
I meant to say 'kidnap'. Maybe if it was the lady in press release...
post #47 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddjob View Post

I linked to an article in Electronic Design in another thread that mentioned some specs for the next generation TI chipsets e.g. 0.004% THD+N full power, a monolithic 240W into 4 ohm design, ...

drool, drool, drool...
post #48 of 459
seriously, anyone have some more info on this thing?
post #49 of 459
Has anyone figured out
a) if it has multiple HDMI inputs
b) when it will hit the streets and what the MSRP is expected to be?
c) what the XR-7? is or may be? I thought I saw a thread on the XR-7? but can't find it anymore
post #50 of 459
someone should translate the word "promotion" into japanese and try to explain the concecpt to panasonic. Heck, they've announced this thing, perhaps if they provided a few details they might not loose so many sales to folks who aren't willing to wait for something with uncertain features. Really, between letting pioneer lap them with model releases and a total lack of communication to the consumer, panasonic is basically asking me to go buy an HK instead.
post #51 of 459
jsm88,

The XR55 is still selling very well, and Panasonic probably wants to keep it that way. The XR57 was announced for June availability, which is some months off.

Quote:


a) if it has multiple HDMI inputs
b) when it will hit the streets and what the MSRP is expected to be?

The XR57 has two HDMI inputs. Announced MSRP is $399, or $100 more than the XR55 -- street pricing will probably be in the $300-$320 range.
post #52 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

The XR57 has two HDMI inputs.


You 100% on that? the only picture we have only shows 2 ports. My $$$ would be on an XR70 equivalent of 1 in, 1 out.
post #53 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by hancox View Post

You 100% on that? the only picture we have only shows 2 ports. My $$$ would be on an XR70 equivalent of 1 in, 1 out.

At CES I could not get a great look at the back of the XR57, but I also agree, that I seem to remember the panny booth guy saying that it was one in and one out.
post #54 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by dm View Post

At CES I could not get a great look at the back of the XR57, but I also agree, that I seem to remember the panny booth guy saying that it was one in and one out.


Exactly my point, bfdtv - there's no way to know the answer to an important question like this. The xr55 is long in the tooth and has no provision for hdmi. The xr70 is a first gen product with kid-toy speaker-connectors (like my xr-45) both were fine a couple of years ago, but woefully out of date now (even if they still sound beautiful) and Panasonic is basically asking folks to buy from someone else with their foot dragging on releases and lack of information to consumers.
post #55 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

The XR55 is still selling very well, and Panasonic probably wants to keep it that way.

anybody have any sales numbers on the xr55?

Just curious how it compares to other popular AVRs in sales volume since it's not advertising-promoted or widely available in retail shops...
post #56 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88 View Post

The xr55 is long in the tooth and has no provision for hdmi.

"Long in the tooth?" Panasonic had a target audience and priced the 55 accordingly. Panasonic is not chasing the same customers as HK or even Pioneer. Will they at some point? I hope so but I don't expect it for some time. Some folks want Panasonic to be something they're not and that's unrealistic. Maybe one of the companies that do cater to us will pick up on the buzz and give us what we want. It won't be Panasonic anytime soon.

David
post #57 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikedorian View Post

"Long in the tooth?" Panasonic had a target audience and priced the 55 accordingly. Panasonic is not chasing the same customers as HK or even Pioneer. Will they at some point? I hope so but I don't expect it for some time. Some folks want Panasonic to be something they're not and that's unrealistic. Maybe one of the companies that do cater to us will pick up on the buzz and give us what we want. It won't be Panasonic anytime soon.

David


I could not have said it better! and probably panasonic too!
post #58 of 459
Quote:


Maybe one of the companies that do cater to us will pick up on the buzz and give us what we want. It won't be Panasonic anytime soon.

I'm thinking JVC is trying awfully hard with the 402/702, just not sure if it's "there" yet.
post #59 of 459
I'm still confused. I can't find any substantial upgrade from my xr70 if the xr57 only has one HDMI port... Well, with the exception of 7.1 support.
post #60 of 459
Is there any type of avenue for getting this info for Panasonic? It's not like there are authorized dealers who are getting details which trickle down to us
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