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Samsung 2006 DLP HDTV Discussion --- HLSxxxxW Models - Page 2

post #31 of 4534
1/7/06 at 1:13am
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I don't know if all of these claims are true, but if they are, the new LED based unit will have a non-wobulated 1080p DLP chip in it. CLICK HERE
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post #32 of 4534
1/7/06 at 1:19am
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Here is the stock photo of the HLS5679W. There is a very high resolution copy of this photo (5 MB) on the Samsung website in the HLS5679W press release. I think that the real units have a shiny bezel.

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post #33 of 4534
1/7/06 at 1:26am
Thread Starter 
I wonder what effect dropping the size of the wobulated 1080p DLP chip from the xHD4's size of .85" to the new xHD5's .65" will cause?
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post #34 of 4534
1/7/06 at 6:49am
Wouldn't you want it smaller if it's non wobulated so there is less space between the pixels?

Are all the new models using the non wobulated chip?
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post #35 of 4534
1/7/06 at 7:39am
Samsung's press releases have "CinemaSmooth" for all three DLP lines so I doubt any of them are non-wobulated. Also, the datasheet for HP's 1080p LED DLP explicitly says it's using a "wobulated" chip.
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post #36 of 4534
1/7/06 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

Here is the stock photo of the HLS5679W.

It looks like 4:3 TVs are making a comeback!!
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post #37 of 4534
1/7/06 at 10:49am
Just back from CES (wow, what an experience). Thoughts re Sammy: I do think all the 1080p chips on the new sets are wobulated. (The only product I saw that used a 'full' 1080p chip was a SIM2 front projector, a single chip FP that they say will probably sell for $10 to 15K; and it gave an impressive pic!) But the Sammy rep I talked to said they took 1080p input over HDMI, though I was not totally convinced she knew what she was talking about. I think both of these points need confirmation.

Re cosmetics, I think the new (HLS) sets looked very nice. They have an all black cabinet, and the 56" and 61" (1080p) sets have a thin bezel--yes, it's back, and all black! I'm sure many people will really like this. The 7178 has a wider bezel, about like in the present sets, and again all black; thought it looked very nice. And wonder of wonders, the screen of the 7178 is back to the traditional Sammy-type, i.e., NOT the glass screen of the hlr7178. I asked the reps I could talk to why in the world did they put the glass screen on the hlr7178--and told them that I might have bought it otherwise (though I am very pleased with the Mits I now have)--but they all professed not to know anything about it (and in this I think they were correct!)

I posted some thoughts about other products I saw on another thread (titled something like "Are you happy with RPTV or thinking about something else ...") that you can find if interested.
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post #38 of 4534
1/7/06 at 11:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Just back from CES (wow, what an experience). Thoughts re Sammy: I do think all the 1080p chips on the new sets are wobulated. (The only product I saw that used a 'full' 1080p chip was a SIM2 front projector, a single chip FP that they say will probably sell for $10 to 15K; and it gave an impressive pic!) But the Sammy rep I talked to said they took 1080p input over HDMI, though I was not totally convinced she knew what she was talking about. I think both of these points need confirmation.

Re cosmetics, I think the new (HLS) sets looked very nice. They have an all black cabinet, and the 56" and 61" (1080p) sets have a thin bezel--yes, it's back, and all black! I'm sure many people will really like this. The 7178 has a wider bezel, about like in the present sets, and again all black; thought it looked very nice. And wonder of wonders, the screen of the 7178 is back to the traditional Sammy-type, i.e., NOT the glass screen of the hlr7178. I asked the reps I could talk to why in the world did they put the glass screen on the hlr7178--and told them that I might have bought it otherwise (though I am very pleased with the Mits I now have)--but they all professed not to know anything about it (and in this I think they were correct!)

I posted some thoughts about other products I saw on another thread (titled something like "Are you happy with RPTV or thinking about something else ...") that you can find if interested.

How did the standard lamp 1080p models compare to this year's 68/78 series in terms of general PQ? Was the new LED set noticably better than the lamp based sets? What differences in PQ did you notice between the lamp based and LED based systems?

Thanks for the positive feedback on the cabinets, they didn't seem as attractive as the 2005 model cabinets in the few pictures that we have. It is nice to know that they may look better in person.
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post #39 of 4534
1/7/06 at 11:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyG View Post

It looks like 4:3 TVs are making a comeback!!

Hopefully, we will start to get some great pictures from the show once people start to return home.
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post #40 of 4534
1/7/06 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

How did the standard lamp 1080p models compare to this year's 68/78 series in terms of general PQ? Was the new LED set noticably better than the lamp based sets? What differences in PQ did you notice between the lamp based and LED based systems?

Thanks for the positive feedback on the cabinets, they didn't seem as attractive as the 2005 model cabinets in the few pictures that we have. It is nice to know that they may look better in person.

Bill, the rep I talked to said the new (HLS) sets--the 'standard' 1080p ones--have brigthter lamps (130 wt). There were not HLR xx68 or 78 models alongside the new ones, so it's hard to give anything more than a vage impression of their reletive PQ; neverthesless, I would venture that the PQ was somewhat nicer--not dramatic, but a good step forward. I imagine that the most descriminating of our AVS colleagues will be very pleased. I am perhaps not discriminating enough to say that the LED-DLP set had better PQ than the new 'standard' 1080p sets; perhaps yes, but it is beginning to really split hairs at this point.

I like the all black cabinets, but there may be others who would have preferred some (all?) sliver/aluminum. Mayber they will just alternate this each year so people have at least some cause to buy a new one (like tail fins on cars--remember?)
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post #41 of 4534
1/7/06 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

Here is the stock photo of the HLS5679W. There is a very high resolution copy of this photo (5 MB) on the Samsung website in the HLS5679W press release. I think that the real units have a shiny bezel.

Gotta love Photoshop, eh? The photo you uploaded for post #30 shows the shiny bezel ... millerwill, can you confirm one way or the other?

Although many people may not like the reflective qualities of a black lacquer bezel, the combination of lacquer bezel and matte grille below would probably explain why millerwill liked their aesthetics at the show -- very stylish.

ps. Just noticed this, but it looks like the grille style below the bezel of the new LED set matches the '05 78 series, with the mitered edges and flat face. The sets behind that one in your photo on post #30 look as if they may have black lacquer all the way down to the bottom, with a new horizontal slit to hide the speakers -- a design cue similar to that on the Sony A10 series, I believe. Interesting.
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post #42 of 4534
1/7/06 at 1:00pm
... and fins on my Maxima would be sweet! That'll surely be the next rage with the tuning crowd.
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post #43 of 4534
1/7/06 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Bill, the rep I talked to said the new (HLS) sets--the 'standard' 1080p ones--have brigthter lamps (130 wt).

Of course the difference between a 120 and 130 watt lamp would be very small.
Quote:


I am perhaps not discriminating enough to say that the LED-DLP set had better PQ than the new 'standard' 1080p sets; perhaps yes, but it is beginning to really split hairs at this point.

With only a tricolored LED array, the color gamut may not be as large as a 6 or 7 segment color wheel. LEDs are "spike-ey" in their wavelength. LEDs are not as bright yet as a Xeon bulb so that is perhaps why the LED set is a smaller screen size. It would be too dark at a 60 or 70 inch screen size.

I don't know if the possible rainbow effect would be diminished since the mirrors need to oscillate just like in a color wheel set and produce individual color images.
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post #44 of 4534
1/7/06 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by calbert View Post

Gotta love Photoshop, eh? The photo you uploaded for post #30 shows the shiny bezel ... millerwill, can you confirm one way or the other?

Although many people may not like the reflective qualities of a black lacquer bezel, the combination of lacquer bezel and matte grille below would probably explain why millerwill liked their aesthetics at the show -- very stylish.

ps. Just noticed this, but it looks like the grille style below the bezel of the new LED set matches the '05 78 series, with the mitered edges and flat face. The sets behind that one in your photo on post #30 look as if they may have black lacquer all the way down to the bottom, with a new horizontal slit to hide the speakers -- a design cue similar to that on the Sony A10 series, I believe. Interesting.

As I'm remembering, the black bezel on all the new 'standard' 1080p sets was shiny, but not overly shiny (like the black plastic on the present hlrxx78 sets). I believe it was black aluminum.

Another thing I remember the rep saying (and which is mentioned in some of the press releases, I believe) is that the color wheel on the new 1080p sets has 2 extra colors (in addition to R, G, and B) that give a more precise coler rendition. (But I may have some of this screwed up!)
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post #45 of 4534
1/7/06 at 1:34pm
Thread Starter 
The HLS6187W stock photo:

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post #46 of 4534
1/7/06 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

The HLS6187W stock photo:


Bill, Is this by any chance a 720p model? It seems like I remember the 720p sets having this whitish color to the inset below the screen, as this pic shows, while the 1080p sets had the same inset but that it was black.
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post #47 of 4534
1/7/06 at 2:32pm
Does anyone know what the physical dimensions of the HL-S5679W are? I'm really
curious to know how deep it is compared to the previous generation.

I've read on engadget that the new LED sets offer true 1080p without wobulation. Do
you think Samsung will still have the wobulation to make the pic look like 2160p?

So far this set is the frontrunner for my next television. Toshiba's SED is running second
if they actually come out with the 55" 100,000:1 contrast version by this year.
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post #48 of 4534
1/7/06 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Bill, Is this by any chance a 720p model? It seems like I remember the 720p sets having this whitish color to the inset below the screen, as this pic shows, while the 1080p sets had the same inset but that it was black.

The photo above was from the 1080p press release package for the HLS6187W 1080p. Here is what I think the HLS6186W 61" 720p set will look like (from press release package):



We really need some photos from the show ... if someone has some, but does not know how to post them, email them to me (10mb limit / email) and I will post them.
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post #49 of 4534
1/7/06 at 3:17pm
Thread Starter 
This year's styling lives on in the HLS4666W 46" 720p model:

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post #50 of 4534
1/7/06 at 3:19pm
I thought their 2005 floating screen design was the most attractive of all the TVs out there. Its too bad they seem to be going away from that.
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post #51 of 4534
1/7/06 at 3:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello 1 View Post

Does anyone know what the physical dimensions of the HL-S5679W are? I'm really curious to know how deep it is compared to the previous generation.

I've read on engadget that the new LED sets offer true 1080p without wobulation. Do you think Samsung will still have the wobulation to make the pic look like 2160p?

It is a little early to talk about dimensions. We really need more show attendees to submit photos and comments before we can start to develop the full picture, but it looks like this years HLR5678W cabinet to me. I don't think we have confirmed that the HLS5679W will use a non-wobulated chip at this point in time.
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post #52 of 4534
1/7/06 at 5:49pm
Has anyone heard if they will be having any models soon with 2 ATSC digital tuners as some of the Mits do. To get the PIP etc. to work when analog goes down, wont we eventually need 2 ATSC types to continue using the PIP or POP.

Thanks, Bill
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post #53 of 4534
1/8/06 at 1:52am
Apparently, the HL-S5679 is wobulated. See this comment on the Engadget post. Also unnoticed is the fact that the color-wheel sets have RGBCMY 6-color wheels.

17. I'm a DLP employee at CES at the moment and thought I'd set things straight a bit on the Samsung and LED DLP in general.



Samsung's LED TV here is in fact wobulated -- it's the same 1080p chip used in all the DLP 1080p sets on the market at the moment, although this is in fact true 1080p of course. I know there's some idealogical objection out there to SmoothPicture, but honestly I believe it makes a better picture. To me it looks like more like smooth film. Non-SmoothPicture does make sense in our projectors where computer graphics are more the norm.



On the LED system, of course color is still sequential since we use a single panel, but with LEDs, the colors can be switched far far more quickly than a colorwheel's speed -- it's the equivalent of something like a 48x colorwheel. I'd challenge anybody to see any rainbow in that.



We're also starting to take further advantage of our single panel display with the color-wheel based systems. If you're at the show, you can see the other TV we're showing next to the Samsung. It's a 70" 1080p system using a 6-color (RGBCMY) colorwheel that gives it a really awesome looking color gamut. The 3LCD guys are going to be pretty angry when everybody realizes that having to use 3 panels means you can't have more than 3 colors.



Finally, in response to mirror flipping causing some kind of low-level flicker, the DLP panel's switching speed is so fast that there is absolutely no way that anyone could perceive it.



Oh and the dimensions of the LED Samsung are about the same as their standard set.



Hope this helped clear up any confusion.

I was really hoping for no wobulation ...
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post #54 of 4534
1/8/06 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

Here is a press release from TWICE ... it outlines the DLP product line for 2006:

Samsung Stresses Strong Features In HDTV Line

By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 12/28/2005 11:10:00 AM
In many LCD models this year, Samsung will move from one HDMI input in 2005 to two HDMI inputs, and will add to all 23W-inch and larger models a new Game Mode feature, which eliminates image delay by bypassing video processing circuitry for "near instantaneous response" from video game controller to screen. In addition, the mode enhances sound and boosts detail in dark areas.
[/b]

In other words, the DNie crap will be bypassed to allow for 1:1 pixel mapping. The digital input will also be calibrated to PC (0-255) levels.

Pause for 21 gun salute and thanks go to the Chinese.

Is Samsung actually becoming intelligent?
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post #55 of 4534
1/8/06 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmurphy88 View Post

Apparently, the HL-S5679 is wobulated. See this comment on the Engadget post. Also unnoticed is the fact that the color-wheel sets have RGBCMY 6-color wheels.

We're also starting to take further advantage of our single panel display with the color-wheel based systems. If you're at the show, you can see the other TV we're showing next to the Samsung. It's a 70" 1080p system using a 6-color (RGBCMY) colorwheel that gives it a really awesome looking color gamut. The 3LCD guys are going to be pretty angry when everybody realizes that having to use 3 panels means you can't have more than 3 colors.

Warning: Six colors may look good at first but is it accurate color? Does it follow the color standards?

Remember many people hyperventilate over new technology, whether or not it is better. Don't make any decision without seeing the picture repeately over several weeks first.
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post #56 of 4534
1/8/06 at 6:50am
FYI - Samsung is a Korean company.
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post #57 of 4534
1/8/06 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Warning: Six colors may look good at first but is it accurate color? Does it follow the color standards?

It's just like a ink jet printer using six colors instead of three. Six gives you a wider color gamut so you can reproduce more colors.

Pantone colors are made from 13 different inks. Their Hexachrome process (six colors) "expands the range of colors that can be printed using conventional printing presses and improves the realism and vividness of color reproduction."

Yes. Six is really better than three.
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post #58 of 4534
1/8/06 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmurphy88 View Post

I was really hoping for no wobulation ...

Why? What would the extra cost bring you?

From my friend Mark Schubin:

"Now let's try human vision. Under television-viewing conditions, it maxes out at about 30 cycles per degree. If you sit nine feet from a display, it therefore needs to be at least 70 inches in diagonal to be able to show you 1920 active pixels per line -- and that's if the finest detail has an enormous contrast ratio, which it probably doesn't because diffraction (if nothing else) in the camera/lens optics will prevent it from having that high a contrast ratio. On a 31-inch 16:9 TV, it's essentially impossible to perceive any more than standard-definition resolution, regardless of how much resolution the display has. Given the foibles of human vision, it's highly unlikely that you can perceive more than standard definition resolution at nine feet even on a 42-inch 16:9 screen."

So if you have a screen LESS then 70 inches and sit MORE than nine feet away, you'll never see 1920x1080, wobulation or not.
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post #59 of 4534
1/8/06 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Videopark View Post

It's just like a ink jet printer using six colors instead of three. Six gives you a wider color gamut so you can reproduce more colors.

Pantone colors are made from 13 different inks. Their Hexachrome process (six colors) "expands the range of colors that can be printed using conventional printing presses and improves the realism and vividness of color reproduction."

Yes. Six is really better than three.

VIDEOPARK...Would the 2005 7-segment Samsung 1080p DLP's provide more accurate & richer colors than the 2006 3-LED 1080p's?
Also, as far as RBE, it seems that a either a Samsung or TI rep claims that with the higher refresh rate of LCD, he challenges anyone to see RBE. Sounds similar to the RBE claims of my Samsung 1080p!
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post #60 of 4534
1/8/06 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Videopark View Post

It's just like a ink jet printer using six colors instead of three. Six gives you a wider color gamut so you can reproduce more colors.

Pantone colors are made from 13 different inks. Their Hexachrome process (six colors) "expands the range of colors that can be printed using conventional printing presses and improves the realism and vividness of color reproduction."

Yes. Six is really better than three.

The CIE color NTSC/PAL standards define, green and blue points as a triangle on the black body chart. Pure red, green and blue should precisely match these points in both saturation and hue.
Sony got the consumers juices going with the SXRD, and many here gladly fell for the oversaturated colors (something never experienced before). Now it is the DLP camps turn using new hardware (6 color ASIC processing) and also LED light sources.

My concern is that the display should accurately reproduce what the camera captured. But for many others, the new fantasy colors will provide a much needed escape from the real world.
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