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Optoma HD81 1080p DLP official discussion - Page 3

post #61 of 4811
Ken,

"I'd probably sell the included scaler and think of it as a rebate. Should fetch more than $2k on the open market? It's pretty much bleeding edge."

Depends upon how flexible it is. If it has say just a fixed 1080p output (what the Optoma needs) then it would be less useful to others as a scaler.

Shawn
post #62 of 4811
Dang I have the H77 and was waiting until the H81 to upgrade. However, I have my screen mounted only a few inches down from the ceiling and no lense **** puts me out too. Hopefully they will have an H82 soon and include lense shift on that model. I love optoma and if no lense shift in the next year I will have to look at the new sharp 20000
post #63 of 4811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Ok, I've created a sample installation so that people could get an idea of what 27% offset will mean in real life. I am going to use a standard 8' (96") ceiling for my example, and I am going to assume that I am able to build a "hugger" ceiling mount for the projector in order to get it within 4" of the ceiling. Also, I am going to use my actual screen, a 16:9 100" X 56" wall mount (114" diagonal) with 1.5" frame all around. Here's how it fits:

96" total height
92" high is center of lens (4" down from ceiling)
77" high is top of viewable screen (I rounded off 15.12" to 15" - top of frame would be 78.5" high)
21" high is bottom of viewable screen
19.5" high is bottom of frame

Using a 114" diagonal screen in an 8' room, "hugging" the ceiling with the projector would then leave you with 19.5" below your screen to place your center speaker, or you could mount it above the screen since your screen will be 78.5" down from the ceiling, giving you 17.5" above to work with.

Now, if you increase the size of the screen, don't forget that the screen will need to mount lower on the wall, as the 27% of screen height offset will increase as the screen gets larger.

If you use a more normal mount with a drop of 8" instead of 4", shift everything down 4".

You can also "fudge" things a bit by tilting the projector in order to mount the screen up higher and/or use a larger screen, but make sure you have a fairly wide black border to absorb the slightly trapezoidal image that will result from tilting the projector.

I have provided this example just so that people can get a feel for how this projector will or will not fit into their particular plans.

I have a 7' ceiling and my center speaker speaker measures 72" X 18" X 18" (yes, it really is that huge!), so unfortunately the HD81 won't work for me.

One additional point to add: if you buy that eye level should be about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom, then this puts eye level at 39.67" (not too bad with a decent couch/chair). If you drop the mount 4", then you start looking for bean bags or those Recaro-wannabe gaming seats.

Later,
Bill
post #64 of 4811
The large offset makes it unworkable for me as well.

TzungILin, I imagine Optoma is already at work on a model that will allow upgrading from H7x.

Will it retain the powered zoom/focus (I hope so)?

Can you say when it might ship?

Thanks
post #65 of 4811
I thought the Optoma was the best thing to be seen at the show. Everyone walked away stunned at the power of the image, the blacks and the great colors, the color being very strong and especially natural in facel tone/hues. The Narida clip was simply amazing and I reveled in the tone hues in the actors faces. Nice3 job (Tz) on the color and good to meet you.

The color wheel is at a new speed, 180hz which Wing says puts it over 6x's speed. Rainbows could not be seen period. Both the H81 and the H80 use the Gennum chip and the RGB/RGB-1Dark-green segments.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h81nardia1.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h81nardia2.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h81.jpg

Pictures don't show it but this PJ was extremelty bright with vivid color and deep blacks. Action scenes with panning were rendered very fast and smooth. I don't think the people looking for trailing pan problems will have any trouble.

Actually a couple of other demo's I saw showed odd combing during pans. Not sure if it was the giant SXRD at Sony or some of the LCD's I saw. The Hitachi, Sanyo, Epson.

I'm sorry to say the LCD's all showed what I'll call a high crammed dot image. A problem if you're looking for smooth film type video. These are extremely low priced machines so it could be ok. Shows fill is very important.
post #66 of 4811
noah katz said:
Quote:


Will it retain the powered zoom/focus (I hope so)?

Probably so.

Quote:


Can you say when it might ship?

Probably not.
post #67 of 4811
Tom,

"The color wheel is at a new speed, 180hz which Wing says puts it over 6x's speed. Rainbows could not be seen period."

If you're not susceptible to RBE, this doesn't mean much.

Were there normally susceptible people there who didn't see it?

Thanks
post #68 of 4811
As far as the offset, it will work easy for me. I have average 8' ceilings, with my cheif mount that puts the screen right in the sweet spot.

The other projectors.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/otpomagroup.jpg

The H72 looked very good, the H80 looked twice as good.
The h72 will be a super deal for HD resolution. It does have brillant color and Faroudja processing. The 768 vertical res can be used for a taller classic 4.3 image but you'll need a motorized screen to line up the 4.3 image tighter.

The 72 can be used with 16.9 screens displaying in typical fashion. 16.9 and normal 4.3 with black bars on the sides. I have an electric screen so I could utilize the larger 4.3 image and still retain natural 16.9 also.

This other machine taking over for the H79 is a two item deal. The projector uses the Dark chip 3 comes with the Gennum processor seperate box HDMI swither scaler which has extra goodies. The MSRP is $6k.

If I got the prices right the -
H81 $9999
H80 not sure, we need to know the stand alone H80 msrp? My guess $7999
HT7300 $5999
H72 $3999

You must know the street levels by now so prices across the board look very nice. Too cheap I think.
post #69 of 4811
Tom,

The HD81 brochure says the wheel is RGBCYM. Is this not true?

Thanks,
Ken
post #70 of 4811
Nope defeintely RGB/RGB/Green
post #71 of 4811
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h81nardia1.jpg

The polar bears' fur looks green to me. Hopefully that's an artifact from the camera.
post #72 of 4811
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Tom,

"The color wheel is at a new speed, 180hz which Wing says puts it over 6x's speed. Rainbows could not be seen period."

If you're not susceptible to RBE, this doesn't mean much.

Were there normally susceptible people there who didn't see it?

Thanks

True I'm not bothered buy the rainbow effect but I could bring them out with projectors if I tried. Same for Wing, he tried also. I'm not sure if this will help people that get eyestrain. Chances of reports from rainbow people are a low percentage prop.

Oh, I didn't gamble much but beat Winn's new Casino for a clean $1200, thx Mr. Winn.

Wing and Tz, I'm not rude at not showing at your party, thanks for the invite. I was there on line to go in but I travel in Las Vegas with running shoes on. They threw me off the line (no sneaker guys allowed) Sorry. But I did hit thier Casino for the $1200.
post #73 of 4811
Bob, glad you came back in to quiet all the excitement about a "negative" offset and no lens shift...
My first question would have been... "has anyone ever seen a projector with a negative offset?" What would be the purpose of this design... and who was it designed for?


Second as Tzun told us from the gitgo that the housing was stolen from a business projector, just think about a business presentation... you always have the portable projector on the conference table projecting an image up where everyone in the room can see it.

I agree that this was a "warp-speed" effort by Optoma to counter the Ruby threat.... what amazed me was just what a terrific job Optoma did! This thing is just drop dead gorgeous!

I am sure Optoma will be following this with more cool stuff and hopefully they will be able to address the needs of folks with low ceilings..... but at least they have a great performing platform to work from!
post #74 of 4811
Quote:


My first question would have been... "has anyone ever seen a projector with a negative offset?" What would be the purpose of this design... and who was it designed for?

TI's reference designs have all been fixed negative offsets, haven't they? And they've appeared in projectors like the Infocus line I know.
post #75 of 4811
Don't Panamorphs or ISCOs change the native offsets of projectors? If so, would they help or hurt in this situation... maybe the HD81 could be a perfect 2.35 setup for some.
-Matt
post #76 of 4811
Isn't the most accurate part of the lens the center. I know a lot of people with the Dwin TV3 had problems with ghosting when the lens was shifted more. I guess this may have been caused by stray light reflecting off the sides of the optical chamber or poor design.

I'm just wondering if a lens shift may complicate things a bit versus just a straight shoot through the middle.
post #77 of 4811
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I thought the Optoma was the best thing to be seen at the show. Everyone walked away stunned at the power of the image, the blacks and the great colors, the color being very strong and especially natural in facel tone/hues. The Narida clip was simply amazing and I reveled in the tone hues in the actors faces. Nice3 job (Tz) on the color and good to meet you.

The color wheel is at a new speed, 180hz which Wing says puts it over 6x's speed. Rainbows could not be seen period. Both the H81 and the H80 use the Gennum chip and the RGB/RGB-1Dark-green segments.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h81nardia1.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h81nardia2.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h81.jpg

Pictures don't show it but this PJ was extremelty bright with vivid color and deep blacks. Action scenes with panning were rendered very fast and smooth. I don't think the people looking for trailing pan problems will have any trouble.

Actually a couple of other demo's I saw showed odd combing during pans. Not sure if it was the giant SXRD at Sony or some of the LCD's I saw. The Hitachi, Sanyo, Epson.

I'm sorry to say the LCD's all showed what I'll call a high crammed dot image. A problem if you're looking for smooth film type video. These are extremely low priced machines so it could be ok. Shows fill is very important.

Tom,

Do you have any pix of the HD81/Narnia scene from the dark portions, like when they were just walking to the wardrobe??? The background walls were full of noise when I saw the demo, just curious if someone else saw this? I'm sure this will be worked out in production.
post #78 of 4811
So then what is the official model number for the PJ that is replacing the H79 that runs for 6,000? Is it the HT7300? Does it not have lens shift either? And is it 1080p?
post #79 of 4811
I would like to come back to Matt's point: Is an Isco nearly mandatory for such a model, isn't it ? It would sharten the throw ratio to a usable format (1.8-2.2 is simply to long for me) when using 1:2.35 and can help to give some kind of lens shift.
post #80 of 4811
"and can help to give some kind of lens shift. "

Not really. You can move the image up/down by tilting the ISCO but in doing so you increase geometric distortion top and bottom on the picture. With a lens shift that doesn't occur.

The tilt and vertical positioning of the ISCO is basically used to minimize distortion. You align the projector with the screen then setup the ISCO for the same alignment with the least distortion.

Shawn
post #81 of 4811
The offset kills it for me too A shame.

TM
post #82 of 4811
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

The RS-232 is a DB9 connector on the Scaler. The interface from the Scaler to the projector is HDMI. I've got their color brochure with a photo of the Scaler connections. The IR extension and the 12V triggers are on the Scaler as well as an AV receiver loop on HDMI. Hope this helps.

Could you can and post this brochure for all to see?

Thanks
post #83 of 4811
Well done, given this it will work for me after all, my screen is slightly smaller at 106" diagonal and I currently have the center channel on the floor and point slightly upward. Future plans did include a riser for the rear seats for a 'mini stadium' view over those in front... could work out fine.

What was the throw for this going to be like, my room is about 21' long

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Ok, I've created a sample installation so that people could get an idea of what 27% offset will mean in real life. I am going to use a standard 8' (96") ceiling for my example, and I am going to assume that I am able to build a "hugger" ceiling mount for the projector in order to get it within 4" of the ceiling. Also, I am going to use my actual screen, a 16:9 100" X 56" wall mount (114" diagonal) with 1.5" frame all around. Here's how it fits:

96" total height
92" high is center of lens (4" down from ceiling)
77" high is top of viewable screen (I rounded off 15.12" to 15" - top of frame would be 78.5" high)
21" high is bottom of viewable screen
19.5" high is bottom of frame

Using a 114" diagonal screen in an 8' room, "hugging" the ceiling with the projector would then leave you with 19.5" below your screen to place your center speaker, or you could mount it above the screen since your screen will be 78.5" down from the ceiling (Edit: oops, that's 78.5" up from the floor), giving you 17.5" above to work with.

Now, if you increase the size of the screen, don't forget that the screen will need to mount lower on the wall, as the 27% of screen height offset will increase as the screen gets larger.

If you use a more normal mount with a drop of 8" instead of 4", shift everything down 4".

You can also "fudge" things a bit by tilting the projector in order to mount the screen up higher and/or use a larger screen, but make sure you have a fairly wide black border to absorb the slightly trapezoidal image that will result from tilting the projector.

I have provided this example just so that people can get a feel for how this projector will or will not fit into their particular plans.

I have a 7' ceiling and my center speaker speaker measures 72" X 18" X 18" (yes, it really is that huge!), so unfortunately the HD81 won't work for me.
post #84 of 4811
I have a 120.5" screen and an eight foot ceiling. I have roughly 15-16 inches from the ceiling to where my screen starts (past black border). Center channel is below the screen. So with my screen being 59 inches tall, does this mean this PJ will NOT work for me as well?
post #85 of 4811
From my CES Report:

Best Front Projection 1080p -- Optoma H81: Without a doubt the best front projector demo that beat the six-figure competitors. I don't know if someone had fully tweaked both the projector and the source material, but all in our group agreed that the Optoma H81 blew away all other demos of DLP projectors. Amazing black levels, color saturation, and most of all, smooth and detailed picture resolution.

Good News - Bad News: In March, Toshiba will release two HD-DVD players at $499 and $799 MSRP. A number of movies will be released at this time. The bad news is that due to HDMI compatibility issues, the movies will be released in the 1080i format. Since most people have digital displays at native 720p, or hope to someday have a 1080p display device, the use of 1080i is disappointing but it seems a necessary evil to ensure that HD-DVD will play on as many systems as possible.
post #86 of 4811
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

Bob, glad you came back in to quiet all the excitement about a "negative" offset and no lens shift...
My first question would have been... "has anyone ever seen a projector with a negative offset?" What would be the purpose of this design... and who was it designed for?

Some of the JVC projectors had a 40% offset, IIRC (SX21, HX1/2, HD2K?). The way JVC measured offset, this put the bottom 10% of the image below the lens centerline. Also, I think the Panasonic LCD projectors also had this as well, before Panasonic got lens shift religion with the AE500 (?).

I am another of the H7x owners who, it looks like, Optoma no longer wants as a customer (need that lens shift!). So, hopefully the Sharp won't be absurdly priced, nor have an excessively short throw.

Later,
Bill
post #87 of 4811
Bill I don't think Optoma is trying to "dis" there current 7x customer base by leaving out the lens shift.... rather the business projector they used as a basis for the H81 was probably the only box currently available that could handle the DMD size and lens they needed to use.

It is undoubtably a series of compromises to get the machine on the market to blunt the Ruby freight train. We all speculated that the DLP manufacturers had to do something to respond to Ruby as Sony definitely caught TI in napping mode. It seems that Optoma was the manufacturer that was able to respond the quickest and as such will be rewarded with a bunch of sales that would have otherwise gone to the Ruby... Is it a perfect solution... nope, but I am guessing that Tzun and company already have a team assigned and working hard to bring out the next model that will use this DMD and the Brilliant color technology.

And I Carnac jr. proclaim it WILL have lens shift.........!! Of course now if I could predict when it would show up... then I would be a true prognosticator!
post #88 of 4811
Quote:


It is undoubtably a series of compromises to get the machine on the market to blunt the Ruby freight train.

Steve, it is one thing to try to capture some sales that would otherwise go to the Ruby, but it is also quite another to alienate their already loyal following. Optoma customers are used to having lens shift. If they take that very important feature away by putting the new DMD into a presentation frame/light engine, they will probably sell some of these to their business customers, but they are leaving a bad taste in the mouths of the loyal home theater crowd. Sure, some people will be able to use the presentation offset, but many will be left out in the cold. At first I blamed TI for getting caught with their pants down, but the more I think about it, the more I have to agree with an earlier poster who mentioned that Optoma must have at least known the size of the DMD well in advance of its release. I have to believe that they have had at least a year to prepare some sort of light engine for the new DMD and not have to resort to using a presentation engine. Maybe I'm wrong. Where is Tzung?

I don't know how many people are in the same boat as I, but I was waiting to find out what showed up at CES before making my next purchase. I had high hopes for the HD81, and I would even consider waiting as long as March to buy one if I could possibly use it in my theater. Seeing that no one else seems to be releasing anything any sooner, it looks like I will be buying a Ruby, warts and all, simply because I don't have any other option other than waiting and hoping. If I buy a Ruby now, at least I can get a year or maybe more of 1080p enjoyment before the DLP people get settled with 1080p offerings. What I really long for is a 3 chip 1080p DLP, and based on how long it is taking just for the single chippers, I fear that affordable 3 chippers will be at least a year away, probably a lot longer. So do I wait a year or whatever for Optoma to release a lens shift version of the HD81 or do I buy a Ruby now?

Please don't take this as Optoma bashing and/or Ruby praising. I have no particular affection towards Sony and their products, but unless Optoma offers a lens shift version OR can at least drastically reduce the offset (if that could be done without a major redesign), I am FORCED to look elsewhere. I would prefer to buy an Optoma if they would offer one I could use!
post #89 of 4811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

I have no particular affection towards Sony and their products

I would think that EVERY HT enthusiast would have affection towards Sony right now, if only for completely redefining the price/performance curve! I suspect that a Ruby is not in my future (too long for my shelf mount needs), but I do send warm, positive thoughts towards that billion dollar plant in Pittsburgh that necessitated Sony pursuing a mass-market strategy with SXRD.

As for knowing the dimensions of the 1080p chip, I'm not sure we can actually say what the manufacturers knew and when. In reality, they had a few basic issues:
  • Pulling together a processing solution that can deal with 1080p
  • Tweaking the reference motherboard design to fit their needs
  • Deciding between dropping the chip into an existing light engine and having a much shorter throw as a result (Sharp 20K?), or cutting new glass to maintain/extend the throw range (Optoma and PD kind of cheated here by having SXGA models already)
  • Hitting a $10k MSRP that allows them to be profitable in the first year, knowing that Sony will have almost a year's head start on them, with discounted pricing to follow.

Basically, I agree that Optoma chose the best route available to hit TTM (time-to-market) considerations. By the time the HD82 (or whatnot) shows up, with lens shift, it will probably be CEDIA, at the earliest. I'm just not going to be in the market for an Optoma machine until the lens shift makes it back in. Fortunately for them, most of my HT budget for the year is already slated for HD-DVD/BDA source components and software.

Later,
Bill
post #90 of 4811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Expletive, good points! Since the scaler is a totally separate unit connected vis standard HDMI, why not add the lens shift back and make the scaler an option? I know that this is self serving, but I'll bet that a LOT of people would prefer this route, if the HD81's release configuration is not already written in stone. Just food for thought...

Completely agreed. A lot of customers who are in the market for a $10K projector will already have a scaler, but the lack of lens shift rules this projector out entirely--scaler or no scaler--for a lot of people (including me). Oh well.
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