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rajdude's Ampro 4200 setup and troubleshooting threads - Page 3

post #61 of 464
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

Congrats, Rajiv. I'll have to come see it soon.

Did you replace the glycol? In all tubes or just the worst one(s)?
Did you replace the c-element(s) or just clean them?
What resolution did you end up at? What sources? What screen and size?
Did you build the unistrut ceiling mount?

Hi Clarence,
sorry for the delay, no time for working on the PJ. I'm sure you will be dissapointed by my replied here...

No I did not replace the Glycol yet. I do have the bottles, though.

No I did not replace the C-elements either

I ran it a 1024x768 from a HTPC. I have a 64"x48" da-lite screen .It is portable with 2.2 gain. I need to replace it. Why so small...well the room is not too wide and my speakers take up too much space.

No I did not build the unistrut yet. It is just setup on a wooden box.


Of course no one in the family wants to watch it. I really need to set it up properly. Now only if I can get the outdoor projects done before winter really sets in

Cheers!
Rajiv
post #62 of 464
When you get around to it, I have the old green c-element from my G90. It had a slight scratch on it that cast a shadow onto the phosphor when I shined a flashlight through the lens. I'm not sure how much the scratch impacts the projected image, but you're welcomed to it for free if you want to replace your Ampro's clear c-element when you defungus it and change the glycol.
post #63 of 464
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

When you get around to it, I have the old green c-element from my G90. It had a slight scratch on it that cast a shadow onto the phosphor when I shined a flashlight through the lens. I'm not sure how much the scratch impacts the projected image, but you're welcomed to it for free if you want to replace your Ampro's clear c-element when you defungus it and change the glycol.


Thanks Clarence, I'll take it.

so when is the open house?

-Rajiv
post #64 of 464
Thread Starter 
OK Folks,
I FINALLY made some progress yesterday evening. I cut open the ceiling to hang the PJ. I will post the pics soon, I could not find the CF card reader today.

I am counting on the Ampro SIP program for the distancee to the screen. I have also double checked it by projecting an image onto the screen, I think it is fairly accurate. I have to use the smallest screen setting the program will allow - 72 inches. The room is too small.

I have an issue though..

How do I max out the image on the raster?

Even when I have maxed out the image width setting on the remote control of my Ampro, the image is still not maxed out on the raster....around half an inch remains dark on th sides. What to do ?


Please help!

-Rajiv
post #65 of 464
Quote:


I have to use the smallest screen setting the program will allow - 72 inches.

Is that 72" wide or diagonal?
post #66 of 464
Rajiv,

There is a "Width" pot on the HOT board that will help. That's the large board mounted on the right side of the projector. It's just to the left and below the input fuse on the upper right side of the board.

Ray
post #67 of 464
Amazing how an Ampro makes grown men cry - just like women.
post #68 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Photo View Post

Amazing how an Ampro makes grown men cry - just like women.

Yep, when you see one set up correctly, the image just brings tears to your eyes

Chip
post #69 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefuel View Post

Yep, when you see one set up correctly, the image just brings tears to your eyes

Chip


Will have to see it to believe it.

I mean a working Ampro that is .
post #70 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

Will have to see it to believe it.

I mean a working Ampro that is .


My Ampro 4200 has been cranking out glorius movies on a 10.5' wide screen for over 4 years with nary a hitch. I love my Ampro(s)....

Ray
post #71 of 464
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan halvorson View Post

Is that 72" wide or diagonal?


Hi Alan,
It is 72 " wide.

I know some people will tell me...why bother with a front CRT PJ with such a small screen...just get a CRT RPTV and be done with it !!
HA HA !

Well these things are fun right?

-Rajiv
post #72 of 464
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Cendroski View Post

Rajiv,

There is a "Width" pot on the HOT board that will help. That's the large board mounted on the right side of the projector. It's just to the left and below the input fuse on the upper right side of the board.

Ray


Thanks for the tip , Ray.

Hey I remember it has been discussed here, but looks like it is a bad idea to adjust that pot. I guess it makes the PJ run hotter and it may fail or become unreliable. UNLESS the neckboard heatsinks are NOT running hot (am I getting it right?)

What is your take on that?

I guess by this time you have had a lot of experience running your PJ with maxed out rasters? I'd like to know a "long term testers" opinion on this.

Also, other people's comments?

Rajiv
post #73 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post

Also, other people's comments?

Ray's info is always extremely helpful, and Walter Allen from Ampro has also stated that he would recommend maxing out the rasters on the Ampro just as with any other CRT PJ. I've noticed the same thing being posted here repeatedly, however, regarding the seeming lack of capability on the Ampros to max out the raster without using the width pot. As we've seen posted repeatedly, primarily in NEC threads, adjusting the width pot frequently causes problems often leading to a component failure shortly after. Since tse used to work at the Ampro factory, I'd be very interested in hearing any feedback they can offer on all of this. Hopefully a missing piece or two of the puzzle may come to light.
post #74 of 464
Thread Starter 
so I went to Lowes to buy parts for the ceiling mount yesterday night. I was surprised I spent 2 hrs trying to find all the various nuts and bolts and washers there! I go the grade 8 ones..hardened and looks like they can take a good load.

Anyway, I am curious how much load can these bolts (5/16"-18) can hold.

Are they strong enough? Look pretty tiny to me!


They are the ones which screw right into the chasis of the PJ at the bottom. There are only 4 of them (although I see 4 more 2 of which do not align properly and 2 are at the extreme rear of the PJ)

Others, are you using just these 4 bolts to hang the PJ?
post #75 of 464
R-

It is funny how often this comes up. But yes most of the PJ I have seen have only 4 tiny screws attaching the rail to the case.

These screws are in tension and are rated (Annealed 304SS is 95K psi) for a lot more than the PJ weighs.

Honestly the threads in the aluminum frame will fail first.

Pete
post #76 of 464
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Photo View Post

R-

It is funny how often this comes up. But yes most of the PJ I have seen have only 4 tiny screws attaching the rail to the case.

These screws are in tension and are rated (Annealed 304SS is 95K psi) for a lot more than the PJ weighs.

Honestly the threads in the aluminum frame will fail first.

Pete

HI Pete,
Thanks.....Now I am trying to understand what kip means so that I can visualize it in lyman's terms....something like ....."how much load can this take before it breaks"

from www.onlineconversion.com I see that
for grade 1 bolts 60 kip/square inch = 30 ton/square inch [short]
for grade 8 bolts 150 kip/square inch = 75 ton/square inch [short]

(I can get grade 8 bolts in Lowes.)

Bolt ratings taken from http://www.unified-eng.com/scitech/bolt/boltmarks.html

So if I calculate the cross-sectional area of this 9/16" bolt it is around 0.24" so does it mean that it will take 18 tons on this bolt to shear it!

Sounds wrong to me ! How come such a tiny bolt be shear-load rated at around 18 tons !

Unless my math is all wrong (most likely)

-Rajiv

Ps I agree that those threads will fail first!
post #77 of 464
R-

You should see what high strength steel will do.....

The cross sectional is actually a bit smaller and there are load knock downs due to the machining of the threads.

That is not the shear load it is the ultimate tensile load - the bolt (assembly) will fail before that. meaning that the threads will elongated and fail.

regardless - the bolts will sustain a significant load - much more that the static weight of the ampro....
post #78 of 464
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danstone View Post

Ray's info is always extremely helpful, and Walter Allen from Ampro has also stated that he would recommend maxing out the rasters on the Ampro just as with any other CRT PJ. I've noticed the same thing being posted here repeatedly, however, regarding the seeming lack of capability on the Ampros to max out the raster without using the width pot. As we've seen posted repeatedly, primarily in NEC threads, adjusting the width pot frequently causes problems often leading to a component failure shortly after. Since tse used to work at the Ampro factory, I'd be very interested in hearing any feedback they can offer on all of this. Hopefully a missing piece or two of the puzzle may come to light.


guys, tse, anyone???
I am still looking for input on whether I should touch that width pot or not.

At this point I have almost 0.75 inch or more of unused tube at right and left sides.

I do not want to beat a dead horse but if anyone has a good experience running an Ampro at full width...I'll appreciate hearing from him....actually otherwise too.

Thanks
Rajiv
post #79 of 464
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

When you get around to it, I have the old green c-element from my G90. It had a slight scratch on it that cast a shadow onto the phosphor when I shined a flashlight through the lens. I'm not sure how much the scratch impacts the projected image, but you're welcomed to it for free if you want to replace your Ampro's clear c-element when you defungus it and change the glycol.


Hi Clarence,
I had the lenses off and noticed that maybe the PJ already has a green C element. Or is the Glycol colored? Anyway, the green tube sure does appear green in color.

Does that mean that I do not need a green C-element ?

OR do these c-elements vary (in color or color-density)

Thanks
Rajiv
post #80 of 464
AFAIK, there are 4 c-elements:
- clear
- dark green (Marquee)
- lighter green (Sony)
- red

The lighter green is brighter, but the darker green is truer. I replaced my G90's light green with the darker green.

I'm guessing the Ampro has the lighter green (which would be the same as the one I can give to you).

The only CRTs that I can recall with OEM colored glycol is the ECP. You can't use colored glycol with LC because the depth of the glycol chamber isn't the same across the surface of the lense.
post #81 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post

guys, tse, anyone???
I am still looking for input on whether I should touch that width pot or not.

At this point I have almost 0.75 inch or more of unused tube at right and left sides.

I do not want to beat a dead horse but if anyone has a good experience running an Ampro at full width...I'll appreciate hearing from him....actually otherwise too.

Thanks
Rajiv

Messing with the pot can be ok or not. It depends on a few things.

First, is the picture alot smaller than the raster? If the raster is alot wider then you need to change the retrace time.

What are you using for a video source and what resolution are you running?

Which HOT board do you have? It's the one far to the right that is bolted to the chassis. Is it like more than a foot long or less?
post #82 of 464
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

AFAIK, there are 4 c-elements:
- clear
- dark green (Marquee)
- lighter green (Sony)
- red

The lighter green is brighter, but the darker green is truer. I replaced my G90's light green with the darker green.

I'm guessing the Ampro has the lighter green (which would be the same as the one I can give to you).

The only CRTs that I can recall with OEM colored glycol is the ECP. You can't use colored glycol with LC because the depth of the glycol chamber isn't the same across the surface of the lense.


Thanks for the info Clarence.
Hey, if I post a pic of the green C element can you tell me if it it the light green or the dark green one?

I just do not want to order a green c-element if I really don't need it.

-Rajiv
post #83 of 464
Thread Starter 
Thanks for responding here tse! I will try to answer all your questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tse View Post

First, is the picture alot smaller than the raster? If the raster is alot wider then you need to change the retrace time.

Not too sure about this one, I will check the raster tonight and report back. At this point all I know is that the image is pretty small in width. at 1024x768 I have around an inch of black space on the left and right sides.

That black space increases if I feed it 1920 x 1440.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tse View Post

What are you using for a video source and what resolution are you running?

I am using a HTPC and trying to set it up for two resolutions:
1024 x 768 and
1920 x 1440
Both at 60 Hz refresh (for starters)

I also have a DVDO Ultra, which outputs only 480p. With that rez too there is a lot of black space on the sides. The master image width is maxed out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tse View Post

Which HOT board do you have? It's the one far to the right that is bolted to the chassis. Is it like more than a foot long or less?

I will check it tonight and post a pic too.

Thanks again!
Rajiv
post #84 of 464
Thread Starter 
On my PJ I do not see any scan lines at almost any resolution (not tried 640x480 yet). I have tried focusing (both optical and EM), setting astigmatism, beam centeringeverything but the image is still not sharp.

Also while doing the stig, I get triangular blobsnot perfectly round. If I defocus the beam (electromagnetically) AND adjust the 2-pole and 4 pole CPC magnets.then at one position of the CPC magnets I can get a reasonably round blob. But then the bright dot is at a corner!!

Does this mean my stig is way off, right? How do I get it right?

No matter which way I twist and turn the CPC magnets the bright dot does not want to come in the center of the blob. It just remains in the corner.



Later, when I focus the beam again I get little triangles with a bright round dot which I can position in the center of the triangle using the CPC magnets.

I do not see any scan lines at 1024 x 768. But the image is reasonable. At 1920 x 1440 the image is very soft. I can't read any text on the screen.

Please help me!


Here is my setup:
PJ = Ampro 4200G
Source = HTPC
Rez = 1024 x 768 and 1920 x 1440 @ 60 Hz
Image = Nokia test pattern (dots)

Thanks in advance
Rajiv
post #85 of 464
Until an expert wades in:

1920x1440 is pushing it. 1024x768 seems sensible.

With respect to focussing- turn the contrast down and look into the lenses. This will get rid of optical issues and enable you to see what the spot size is doing (without being over driven).
post #86 of 464
Thread Starter 
John,
I was trying to set it up for 1920 x 1440 for 1080p.
I calculate that the 4:3 version of 1080p is this resolution, right?

What do others here feed the PJ is they want to display 1080p?
Do they feed straight 1920 x 1080 to the PJ ???

Rajiv
post #87 of 464
Hey Rajiv-

I have seen posts in the past about triangular "dots," and I believe this is normal for some projectors. I have some across this a few times also. The bright dot should definitely be in the center.

Did you set the electronic (static and dynamic) focus and astig to zero before you started playing with the magnets?

You're using a 4:3 resolution, are you using a 4:3 screen? I also seem to remember that you screen is very small, which might explain why you're not seeing scan lines.

There's no shame in trying a lower resolution until you see scan lines. You might leaern something about your set-up in the process. Try 480i direct from a DVD player (S-video even!?) and if you still don't see scan lines then you know something's wrong.

There's no sense trying to push the projector to the max if it's not adjusted properly, it will just end up looking horribly soft.

Good luck.

-Mark
post #88 of 464
Thread Starter 
Hi Mark, You are up early! it is like 6 AM in Cali, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmelvin View Post

I have seen posts in the past about triangular "dots," and I believe this is normal for some projectors. I have some across this a few times also. The bright dot should definitely be in the center.

So, I guess this PJ will always display triangular dots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmelvin View Post

Did you set the electronic (static and dynamic) focus and astig to zero before you started playing with the magnets?


I had set the focus to 50 isn't it the same as zero on these PJs? Or do I have to set it to actual zero value. I do not see any code to set astig using the remote on my PJ. Do you know the code for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmelvin View Post

You're using a 4:3 resolution, are you using a 4:3 screen? I also seem to remember that you screen is very small, which might explain why you're not seeing scan lines.


Yes I am using a 4:3 screen because I plan to watch TV & 4:3 format video content on this PJ.
You remember correctly, my screen is only 6 ft wide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmelvin View Post

There's no shame in trying a lower resolution until you see scan lines. You might leaern something about your set-up in the process. Try 480i direct from a DVD player (S-video even!?) and if you still don't see scan lines then you know something's wrong.


Good point. I will try it out this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmelvin View Post

There's no sense trying to push the projector to the max if it's not adjusted properly, it will just end up looking horribly soft.

Good luck.

-Mark


Gee, Thanks!
-Rajiv
post #89 of 464
If you want to have a bash at 1920x1080p, then that'll be 16:9 by default. i.e. a squeezed raster. No point in using 1440p at 4:3.

If you're using 4:3, then that implies SDTV resolutions. In which case around 720p is a good option.

Have a read through the FAQs on crtprojectors.co.uk
post #90 of 464
You'll always get some form of triangulation on your dots if you only have 2/4 magnets to play with. You need 6-pole like on the Barco Cine 9 or the Sony G90 (and possibly a few others) to really get things perfectly circular.

That being said, I've only ever noticed this triangulation of the circles in the corners of the screen. I'm able to get the center area circular pretty well. (Did this last on my Zenith 1200 with 2/4 pole magnets and this is what I saw).

Kal
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