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Boston Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 2952
Are you asking where to set the crossover from the speaker as a whole to a seperate, discrete subwoofer, or where to set the crossover from the 3.5" midrange to the built in sub?
post #212 of 2952
If you really have tower speakers with built in subwoofers.... ummmm well I guess it might be possible. Then again, if you have tower speakers with a 8 inch woofer of any type in it, you should put the cross over @ 80.

Basically visually look at your speakers and determine if they are big speakers or small speakers. Picture Bose's cube speakers. Those are deffinitely small and need a high crossover because they can't carry any bass. Even my 3.5" mid-ranges in my Boston Micro90x's only go down to about 100-110 Hz and sound good. My crossover is @ 120 Hz. Larger speakers with a 6.5 inch or bigger woofer in them probably needs a lower crossover.

The lower the crossover, the better directional sound you will get from the speakers and the less directional from the subwoofer. (because low sounds way down there aren't directional)

Hope that helps you out. Most speakers won't tell you where to put it. Usually somebody would just say listen and put it at what sounds best to you. Either way works good.

Good luck,

Ryan
post #213 of 2952
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

Are you asking where to set the crossover from the speaker as a whole to a seperate, discrete subwoofer, or where to set the crossover from the 3.5" midrange to the built in sub?

The VR965s use a separate RCA connection from the subwoofer pre-amp output jack on the rec'vr- actually two connections because you use a splitter from the pre-amp- to the two towers. The 3.5 midrange and tweeter are powered by standard speaker wire connected to the main speaker outs. This way the subwoofers are treated as though they are external subwoofers.

So, I'm asking where to set the cross over on the recv'r from the main/surround speakers to the two subwoofers as though they were external subwoofers.
post #214 of 2952
Yeesh, so a tweeter and a single 3.5" midrange are all that are used to cover from 20khz down to the sub crossover? That's almost like a satellite speaker. I'd set that crossover as high as you can, 200hz if possible.
post #215 of 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

Yeesh, so a tweeter and a single 3.5" midrange are all that are used to cover from 20khz down to the sub crossover? That's almost like a satellite speaker. I'd set that crossover as high as you can, 200hz if possible.

That or maybe down to 150 Hz. 120 at the lowest. Best thing to do is to download some type of frequency testing tones and listen to hear how far down the "satellite" speakers can go.

Ryan
post #216 of 2952
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

Yeesh, so a tweeter and a single 3.5" midrange are all that are used to cover from 20khz down to the sub crossover? That's almost like a satellite speaker. I'd set that crossover as high as you can, 200hz if possible.

That was my thinking as well-- set it high, although looking at the specs for the 3.5inch midrange, it looked like 120Hz would do it, but maybe I'll go a bit higher.
post #217 of 2952
I found this:

http://www.cyberaudioshop.com/boston/vr965.htm

Apparently it is a 4.5" midrange and it should be crossed over at 150hz.
post #218 of 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

I found this:

http://www.cyberaudioshop.com/boston/vr965.htm

Apparently it is a 4.5" midrange and it should be crossed over at 150hz.

If it is a 4.5 and that website tells the truth, then the closest you set your cross over to 150 the better. But If you can't nail 150 right on, then go to the next closest above it, that way you don't count on more bass in the satellites than what they were designed for. (lack of bass in that range too if you put it lower)

Ryan
post #219 of 2952
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

I found this:

http://www.cyberaudioshop.com/boston/vr965.htm

Apparently it is a 4.5" midrange and it should be crossed over at 150hz.

Steve & Corvette--- thanks, this is very helpful. What the helll was I thinking, 3.5 inches???? I spent all this time getting a center (VRC) and surrounds (Bravos) that matched the tweeter and mid range in my 965s, and completed forgot they were 4.5 inches. Duh.

150Hz it is.
post #220 of 2952
Thread Starter 
OK-- I reset my crossover to 150MHz and re-caliberated the system using the microphone and auto set up process on my Denon 3805. I don't really notice much difference in the sound. What I'm puzzled about is the auto-calibration settings. It set the fronts up 5db, the center up 2db, the side/rear surrounds up about 4-5db, but it took the subwoofers on my BA965s at minus 5db. The bass, at low volumes, is mostly gone now, but at higher volumes, it sounds good.

So, whatever happened to the loudness button? Maybe I'm dating myself, but I miss the loudness button on my NAD 3240 from 1987. At least the Denon 3805 should scale the system EQ and/or speaker settings based on the system volume, but it doesn't appear that is the case. There is probably an easy fix for this that I just can't figure out because these AV recv'rs are so complicated.

Recommendations?
post #221 of 2952
Do you have a RS spl meter? If you use RoomEQ you can easily see what's going on.
post #222 of 2952
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

Do you have a RS spl meter? If you use RoomEQ you can easily see what's going on.

A friend has one I plan to borrow. Will let you know what happens.
post #223 of 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZinMe View Post

OK-- I reset my crossover to 150MHz and re-caliberated the system using the microphone and auto set up process on my Denon 3805. I don't really notice much difference in the sound. What I'm puzzled about is the auto-calibration settings. It set the fronts up 5db, the center up 2db, the side/rear surrounds up about 4-5db, but it took the subwoofers on my BA965s at minus 5db. The bass, at low volumes, is mostly gone now, but at higher volumes, it sounds good.

So, whatever happened to the loudness button? Maybe I'm dating myself, but I miss the loudness button on my NAD 3240 from 1987. At least the Denon 3805 should scale the system EQ and/or speaker settings based on the system volume, but it doesn't appear that is the case. There is probably an easy fix for this that I just can't figure out because these AV recv'rs are so complicated.

Recommendations?

My auto calibration mode on my Yamaha HTR-5990 did the same thing. It reduced the bass so dramatically on my JBL Subwoofer (-8db) that I started over. The setup instructions for the receiver said to set the sub level to it's max prior to calibration so I turned down to about 60% and ran the calibration setup again. I then went back and adjusted the sub level up to where I was happy with the sound (about 85% in most cases). I think the calibration mode must be set for the "THX" standards and it seems to really cut the bass level dramatically. The thing I found weird was that in the first calibration test at the end it said my VR-12 Center was out of phase and I needed to reverse the wires. But when I double checked the connection it was fine. The second test didn't display this so I wonder just how dependable these calibration tests are. I will say that all of the other settings did improve the sound and the surround effect is much better than before.
post #224 of 2952
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SacTownMan View Post

I think the calibration mode must be set for the "THX" standards and it seems to really cut the bass level dramatically.

I'm finding from reading other threads that that the subwoofer settings are typically not handled well on auto calibration set-ups and most people adjust them substantially from the auto set-up settings depending on the surround mode / situation.

In my situation, I get good SW/bass response in 2 channel and 5/7 channel stereo modes, but crappy SW/bass in Dolby Digital PLX. Who knows... I can fix it, but its a hassle to manually adjust all the time. Between my plasma image settings and recv'r surround sound settings, I spend all my time mucking around trying to get it right and not much time watching/listening. Maybe I'll get used to it after a few months...
post #225 of 2952
Thread Starter 
I have been playing around with my speaker settings trying to find the best set-up and found that the crossover point for my front BA965 speakers (150Hz) was higher than the crossover point for my Bravo II surround speakers (80Hz) which presents a dilemna. So I sent the following question to BA's customer service email today:

"I need some information to configure my reciever (a Denon 3805) for this speaker set up.

My understanding from the Bravo II manual is that those speakers should be set to small and the lower frequency cut off is at 80Hz. This implies an optimal crossover setting on my receiver of 80Hz.

The manual for my VR965s does not specify a crossover point between the midrange driver and the powered subwoofer. On a user forum (avsforum.com) someone suggested it is 150Hz. Can you confirm the crossover point? The problem I am having is that if I set the crossover at 150Hz on my reciever, I am short changing the bass response on my surround speakers, which can support frequencies down to 80Hz.

As background to the above question, I have the subwoofers connected via a splitter using RCA cable to the subwoofer outs on the receiver. I also have set my subwoofer configuration to "LFE only" instead of "LFE+Main" because I get cleaner sound that way (although at the expense of losing some of the upper bass/lower midrange I might add, but it seems like the right tradeoff.)"



Here is the response I got-- within 6 hours I might add. BA has great customer support!

"Hello,

The VR965 will remove any bass frequencies from the speaker level inputs and redirect it to the subwoofer in a summed signal with the LFE input. Because of this you will not need to take the VR965 capabilities into consideration when selecting your crossover frequency. Leave the VR965 as large, they will take care of the rest. You should use the 80Hz setting."


OK, so now I can stop messing around with this thing! Too bad that wasn't in the manual.
post #226 of 2952
I'm looking at BA's VR-M Reference line as a complete setup (fronts, center, surrounds) along with the PV1000 sub. I haven't seen any mention of a set like this on this thread. Does anyone have experience with this as your configuration - and what do you think when I'm about 60/40 HD to Audio? Thanks
post #227 of 2952
The VR-M series is very nice. Which model number are you plan on using where? Are you going with bookshelf or towers?

I have the VR-M50 speakers and use them with the PV1000 for audio. I believe they sound very good considering the placement constranints I have.

I just pass on purchasing a new set of VR-M90 towers for $1,200 shipped. I should have pulled the trigger on these but I am currently moving and decided I just didn't need them at this time. Besides, I have only heard them once and I kind of liked my VR-40 better. I wish I could of heard them head to head.

As for surrounds, I don't believe you can beat the VR-MX and the VR-M/EX for a dedicated theater room if you are looking at an all BA system.

I have heard usiing the VR-M50 speakers for the rear/surround channels also sounds really well. I haven't experienced it but may give it a try when I set my system back up.
post #228 of 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDreier View Post

I'm looking at BA's VR-M Reference line as a complete setup (fronts, center, surrounds) along with the PV1000 sub. I haven't seen any mention of a set like this on this thread. Does anyone have experience with this as your configuration - and what do you think when I'm about 60/40 HD to Audio? Thanks

Aside from the PV-1000, I think this is an excellent choice. I have VR-M60 fronts, VR-MC center, and VR-MX surround and I love 'em. If I were doing it again, I might consider the VR-M90s for the front just to get the little extra mid-range but I'm really not sure I would change anything. It is very natural sounding and the dark cherry finish is awesome...

For a sub, I went with a Velo SPL-1200r (little more umpa) and after setup it blends perfectly with my room.

Good luck,
Joe
post #229 of 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiggs View Post

Which model number are you plan on using where? Are you going with bookshelf or towers?

I'm looking at the VR-M90s (floorstanding), VR-M Center, VR-MX Surrounds and the PV1000 as mentioned previously.

Of course, I haven't heard them yet and will certainly do so before purchase. My understanding is the BA speakers are somewhat "warm" in tone and I believe I'll need this in a fully-carpeted and windows draped room. Agree?
post #230 of 2952
Thread Starter 
I don't hear of many VRM90 owners, and I'm wondering if that is because the VR3s are so popular. The VR3s seem to have very similar components.

* VRM90: Two 6.5 inch DCD woofers, 3-1/2" copolymer midrange, 1" VR® tweeter with anodized aluminum dome, AMD, and extruded aluminum heat sink, and they use die-cast aluminum baskets for the woofers and mid-range.

* VR3: Two 7 inch DCD woofers, 4½" neodymium copolymer midrange, 1" VRH.O. tweeter with anodized aluminum dome and AMD


Not much difference in components as far as I can see... The main difference seems to be the cabinets, which look bigger and more nicely finished than the VR3. The price of the VR3s appear to be less than half that of the VRM90s. Not sure why the VRM90s cost as much as they do.
post #231 of 2952
I think that because of costs most dealers don't stock them. I have (5) VR-M60's, (2) VR-M50's, VR-MC, and VR-MX surrounds. I love the sound of them and have not looked at speakers at all in the last 4-5 yrs. I am ready for a pair of tower speakers just for a change and I would love to hear the 90's as I can't imagine that they would do anything other than improve on the 60's but I can't find a pair to audition anywhere.

If anyone has a good contact on a dealer for the VR-M90's in the Raleigh NC area PM me.
post #232 of 2952
Thread Starter 
Try sending a note to BA customer service on their website asking for dealers in your area-- they are very responsive.
post #233 of 2952
HI All, Well I pulled the trigger on a deal for the VRM-90's that I think were the one Rhiggs passed on. I need some help though. I have been a big time supporter of BA and have owned the T-1030's, VR20's (amazing value), and the Boston THX 5.1 system. No dealer in Boston,MA carried the 90s so I purchased them blind since I was familiar with Boston sound and have some nice Boston speakers to complete a home theater system. After hooking them up, the first thing I noticed was how flat they were. I have heard some people say the Boston's are too bright, I felt these were not enough! My 1030's were brighter. I checked the connections to see if they were wired properly and they seem to be. I just expected a big improvement over my 15 year old T-1030's and so far it just isn't so. Is there anyone in the Boston area that would like to take a listen and make sure they are connected properly? They were a purchase from that famous auction site and want to make sure I didn't get a lemon!

BTW, I am using a Denon AVR-4802 THX Ultra receiver, VRMC Center, Boston 575X surrounds, and 595X sub. Cable is thick Monster Cable m2.2s. I have sold the VR20's and T-1030's to help finance the 90's. I may compare the 90's movie performance to the 555X THX performance tonight.

I am wondering if the 4802 is enough amp for the 90's. I did notice that the sensitivity of the 1030's was 91 and the VRM-90's is 89 or so.
post #234 of 2952
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsnickers View Post

I have heard some people say the Boston's are too bright, I felt these were not enough! BTW, I am using a Denon AVR-4802 THX Ultra receiver.

That's too bad. The BA tweeter is one of the best in my opinion-- it is clear and articulate and smooth, although I haven't heard the 90s before, but I'd be surprised if they sounded substantially different.

Have you re-calibrated your recvr for the new mains? If that doesn't do the trick, I would have to say there is likely a problem with the speakers.
post #235 of 2952
i am currently using 2 pairs of VR-30's and a vr 12 center. Subs are home made. Fronts are biamped , In fact all channels are amped. I just use my receiver as a preamp. I bought my Bostons new in about 98
post #236 of 2952
I will try recalibrating the receiver tonight and see if it helps the performance of the VR-M90's. Maybe the Monitor line takes a little getting used to. My problem with the sound, particularly midrange/voices were not alive. A good comparison would be listening to music in stereo on a pair of THX fronts vs loudspeaker.

I sent an email to Boston Acoustics to see if they have any techs that would take a listen to the speakers to see if they were working properly. They are only about 10 miles from my house so I have my fingers crossed.
post #237 of 2952
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsnickers View Post

I will try recalibrating the receiver tonight and see if it helps the performance of the VR-M90's. Maybe the Monitor line takes a little getting used to. My problem with the sound, particularly midrange/voices were not alive. A good comparison would be listening to music in stereo on a pair of THX fronts vs loudspeaker.

I sent an email to Boston Acoustics to see if they have any techs that would take a listen to the speakers to see if they were working properly. They are only about 10 miles from my house so I have my fingers crossed.

Good luck and keep us posted. (I have a pair of BA 965VRs, and I'm always curious if I can pick-up substantially better lower mid-range performance by switching to the VR3s or M90s.) I'm surprised to hear the mid/highs sound "not alive"-- that isn't a common complaint about BA. Typically I find BA to have less bass response but that isn't an issue with subs these days.
post #238 of 2952
Anybody seen these at their local dealer yet?

Apparently their new flagship? Appears to be a four way with six 5.25" woofers, a 5.25" midbass, a 3.5" midrange, the VRHO tweeter, and a rear mounted VR tweeter that can be turned on or off for ambience. Neodymium magnets used on all drivers and a MSRP of $5000 for a pair.

Since there is a dedicated midrange and a dedicated midbass, the six dedicated woofers have to extend very deep, because you wouldn't need six to match the sensitivity of the tweeter. To balance the sensitivity out, I'd assume the woofer cabinets are tuned extremely low.

I'd love to check them out.

EDIT - apparently any reference to a certain website is blocked in all forms, so check out o-n-e-c-a-l-l-.-c-o-m to see them, they are the E100s.
post #239 of 2952
Has anyone here compared the VR3's with Polk RTI 12's? I am looking at both as well as matching centers for each. Any opinions or comments would be appreciated. I am new to Boston but have heard good things about them. I like the RTI 12's, but I am totally intrigued by these. Thx!
post #240 of 2952
Actually, the Polk RTi10 would be a much more fairer comparison for the VR-3 than the RTi12.


O n e c a l l is blowing out the VR-M90s. Has anyone directly compared them and the VR3s against each other, and if so, thoughts?
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