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Energy Owners Thread - Page 343

post #10261 of 51453
Hey Guys,
I’m not sure if this post should be in the speaker thread or the AV threads but hear goes. (I will add it to both I guess)

I finally received my new Energy speakers. (Front, center, right = C100’s and C-c100) and got everything set up.

I ran my Audyssey, and this is what the Audyssey set my speakers as.

Please let me know if you see any issues that need to be changed.
SPEAKER CONFIG
Sub = yes
Front = Full Band
Center = Full Band
Surround = 150 Hz (Not sure about this one)
FPF of LFE = 120Hz
Double bass = on

LEVEL CALIBRATION
Left = +3db
Center = +2db
Right = +3db
Surround Right = +2db
Surround Left = 0db?
Sub = -12db

EQ = Audyssey
Tone Control = Front = Bass =0db
Tone Control = Front = Treble = 0db

Multiplex / Mono
Input = Main
Mono = Input = L+R
PLIIx Music (2ch input)
Panorama = Off
Dimension = 0
Center Width = 3

Neo:6 Music = Center Image 2
Dolby EX = Auto

Theater Dimensional = Listening Angle = Wide
Intelli Volume = 0db
A/V Sync = 0m sec

Listening mode = All inputs set to “last Valid”

On the back of my Sub is:
Frequency = 150 (I think this is wrong)
Volume = ½
Phase = Normal

Thanks for your help.
Dank
post #10262 of 51453
there's a difference between saying break-in makes them sound better (which may be true) vs the obvious exaggeration of saying they sounded horrible until all of a sudden one day *presto* they sound wonderful. there is just no way that is true. the dramatic difference you are proposing is simply implausible. The typical break-in "shifts" are things like subtle improvements in clarity, smoothing out of the treble, a little reduction in "bloat" or whatever...

It's really not intended to be personal, I'm not upset.... and I'm not disputing your subjective experience or implying you are lying or anything. Shoot, it's not even really a sensitive topic per se; the "sensitive" topics are things like whether amps or CD player can actually sound different (not to start anything).

It's just that I wanted to be clear that the other dude's problems were NOT just a simple matter of the speaker not being broken in. They should sound fine right out of the box, and might sound better after break-in, but the dramatic all-in-one-day shift you describe is, again, totally implausible.
post #10263 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

batpig, what kind of job do you have that affords you all the time to post in here all day?

the kind where I am sitting in a cube in front of a computer all day long... where I can accomplish all of my work and appear to be very productive while still spending 1/2 my time browsing the interweb
post #10264 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_V View Post

Wow, I had no idea this was such a sensitive topic! Kind of hostile, don't you think? What are you so sore about?

If you read around these forums a bit, you'll see that this topic is pretty controversial.

Some believe break-in to be "true" and a big deal.

Others believe it to false and that people simply become "used" to their speakers after so many hours.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. I don't know why it is such a sore topic (my Energy manual clearly states to perform break in, so...) but I do know that there are entire threads with people arguing over this exact topic and I certainly hope that this thread isn't about to become one...
post #10265 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the kind where i am sitting in a cube in front of a computer all day long... Where i can accomplish all of my work and appear to be very productive while still spending 1/2 my time browsing the interweb

me too! yay!
post #10266 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana.Sound View Post

Wondering if any of you might be of assistance... I have the following setup:

2 C-300 (Fronts)
2 C-100 (Surrounds)
1 C-C50 (Center)
No subwoofer
HK 254

The room is approximately 13x14. The surrounds (and fronts obvioulsy) are right about ear level. The center channel is in an entertainment center directly below the TV approximately 2 feet or so below ear level. The center channel is in a cabinet which has a breathable black mesh front (to hide it).

I ran the auto-calibration with the HK 254. The fronts are set to large and it correctly has the speaker distances. The issue I'm having is it auto-set the all the speakers at about -4db.

Unfortunately, at this level while I can clearly hear the fronts/surrounds, it is very difficult to hear the vocals from the center channel. In order to hear it clearly, I needed to set the center to +4-5 (while leaving the other speakers at -4). When I put my ear to the center, it sounds great (so don't think there is anything physically wrong with the speaker).

Now I know everyone says there is a big difference b/t the C-C100 and C-C50, but is the difference that great where I would have to set the C-C50 at such a higher level compared to the other speakers? Am I doing something wrong? Will playing the center at +4-5db harm it? Thanks for any help you can provide.

All modern amplifiers do the volume adjustments digitally, and the individual level controls for each channel do nothing more than digitally increase or decrease the mA current of the of the signal in the preamplifier before it goes to the power amplifier. These controls are used to balance the levels between the various speakers within your system because iin many systems it's probable that a user will mix and match varoius speakers for front, center and surrounds, all with different electrical sensitivities. Neither increasing nor decreasing the signal within the full range of the control will harm your speakers, as long as they can handle the power that the amplifier puts out to start with. So, if it takes +9db on any of the speakers to make it sound balanced with the others, there's nothing wrong with that. Here's a real-world example where you might want to do that:

-Your front L/R are rated at 89db sensitivity, but their bass and treble lack somewhat, so you crank the 'old-school' bass and treble controls to the max (on a Yamaha amplifier, these controls affect only the front L/R, and go -6db to +6db)

-Your center speaker is rated at 86db sensitivity, and you're happy with the overall tonal characteristics, but it just sounds quiet now.

-The rears are the same as the fronts (89db), and you amplifier has no tonal adjustment for them


So, now to balance everything simplistically, you have added +6db to the bass and treble of the fronts, which were already 3db more sensitive than the center. Therefore you would likely start with adding +9db to the front to make it generally equal in level to the fronts. And the rears need +6 added to them to get them on par with the cranked bass and treble on the fronts. Then you might tweak a db +/- here and there to get everything so-so, but, simplistically, that's the big picture.

There's nothing wrong with that. +9db is perfectly fine.

But if you don't like the 'numbers' (ie, +9db scares you for some reason), then you could go back to the levels setting, and set the fronts to -6db; and the center to +3db; and the rears to 0db. Esentially, it's the same thing, it's the *differences* between the various channels that you are trying to match. But by dropping everything equally 6db from the mathematically matched sensitivities, you just lowered the overall output potential of your amplifier by 6db at full tilt, Really though, likely you'd never operate it at full tilt anyway, so again, no big deal.

Cheers,
The REAL Joe
post #10267 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by dankfoot View Post

I finally received my new Energy speakers. (Front, center, right = C100’s and C-c100) and got everything set up.

I ran my Audyssey, and this is what the Audyssey set my speakers as.

Please let me know if you see any issues that need to be changed.
SPEAKER CONFIG
Sub = yes
Front = Full Band
Center = Full Band
Surround = 150 Hz (Not sure about this one)
FPF of LFE = 120Hz
Double bass = on

As per the Audyssey guide, change speakers from "Full Band" and set a crossover on the C-100/C-C100, try 60Hz and 80Hz and see which sounds better. I assume you have an Onkyo receiver right?

Read this: http://www.audyssey.com/faq/index.html#largesmall

You didn't mention what surrounds you have so it's hard to judge the 150Hz...

Turn Double Bass OFF (although it will actually be irrelevant once you take the speakers off "full band")


Quote:


LEVEL CALIBRATION
Left = +3db
Center = +2db
Right = +3db
Surround Right = +2db
Surround Left = 0db?
Sub = -12db

the fact that your sub trim is maxed out to the negative means you need to turn down the volume on your sub and re-run Audyssey. Your sub volume is way too high and Audyssey has "run out of room" trying to lower the volume level to match the other speakers.

You would ideally want the channel level trim to be closer to the middle, i.e. within +/- 6dB of 0, so you know the trim is correct and you have "wiggle room" for adjustment.
post #10268 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

If you read around these forums a bit, you'll see that this topic is pretty controversial.

Some believe break-in to be "true" and a big deal.

Others believe it to false and that people simply become "used" to their speakers after so many hours.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. I don't know why it is such a sore topic (my Energy manual clearly states to perform break in, so...) but I do know that there are entire threads with people arguing over this exact topic and I certainly hope that this thread isn't about to become one...

No, I'm done! Just surprised. Certainly didn't expect that kind of response. Never even heard this was controversial!

Next topic, please....
post #10269 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

If you read around these forums a bit, you'll see that this topic is pretty controversial.

Some believe break-in to be "true" and a big deal.

Others believe it to false and that people simply become "used" to their speakers after so many hours.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. I don't know why it is such a sore topic (my Energy manual clearly states to perform break in, so...) but I do know that there are entire threads with people arguing over this exact topic and I certainly hope that this thread isn't about to become one...

I agree with batpig that the actual sound difference would be subtle, not dramatic. And I suspect that Energy doesn't really care about the sound change anywhere as much as they don't want a bunch of speakers returned on warranty with voice-coils burned out because the rubber takes a while to limber up and give the speaker it's ability to properly move and flex as required when handling high power, and while the voice could windings find equillibrium.

Cheers,
The REAL Joe
post #10270 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I honestly haven't seen or used the locking ones, but some people like them. I have to imagine they fit the same though, I can't imagine GLS sourcing a different connector part for the new plugs, it's probably just the barrel that's been redesigned.

banana plugs are more of a convenience than a necessity. the are most important at the receiver end, where the tightly spaced binding posts on the back of most multichannel receivers make it a daunting task to squeeze your fingers and thread bare wire in there. on the speaker side, it's more about aesthetics.

I would currently recommend the monoprice plugs instead, they are very solidly built and give a tight fit:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

the only downside to the monoprice plugs is that they are unshielded (no rubber insulation), so I would not use them on the speaker side without adding some insulation (like heat shrink tubing). if the unshielded plugs are accidentally yanked out of a speaker and the gold ends touch, you can fry the amp. on the receiver side it's not an issue, if they get yanked out they won't be connected to the amp so no worries....

if you don't care about the aesthetics and won't be connecting/disconnecting the speakers very often, may as well just stick to bare wire on the speaker side...



My current speakers are without any banana plugs, and i'm thinking of getting banana plugs. The wires will be exposed, and i think it would look neater with the rubber.

Would you suggest something else? Any idea if these would these be available @ fry's?
post #10271 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenash View Post

short story:
2xRC10s (about 70 hrs)
1xS10.3 (about 10 hrs)
yamaha 6190 (same as 1800)
1xtechno tune
volume = +8dB for about 5 mins

result = burning smell from RC10 tweeters (both) but speakers still sound fine

question = why? what? how?

long story
friday night i got a chance to push my RC10s and S10.3 for the first time (i usually have 2 little ones sleeping anytime i'm listening to them) -- i've been pretty underwhelmed by the sub but its my first one and maybe my expectations were too high, so i wanted to hear it at high volumes

i had a few (5?) pints before getting home so i wasn't in the most cautious frame of mind -- not sure how many hours i have on the speakers but i would guess 70hrs on the RC10s and maybe 10hrs on the sub -- they are being driven by a yammy 6190 (same as the 1800) and i'm streaming content from my PC through a PS3 to the avr

anyway, i put on a techno tune with lots of high highs and low lows and cranked the volume to +8dB (i only discovered it was this high afterwards, the yammy doesn't display volume well)

i was lounging on the couch, eyes closed, trying to hear everything from the speakers ... after about 90 seconds i smelled what i call "electrical burn' smell

at first i figured the extreme volume gave me a stroke and i was experiencing the 'burning toast' effect, then i though maybe i had fried the circuitry connecting my ears to my brain

through further inspection i discovered that the smell was coming from the tweeters on the RC10s, both of them, same smell, but they were still working (music was still playing at +8dB, see note about pints above)

the music played that way for about 5 mins in total, then i listened to something else at lower volume and the speakers seemed fine

so, is this normal? what happened?


I don't know if it's normal, but *DAMN* that made me laugh!. I spit my coffee all over my keyboard...

Cheers
The REAL Joe
post #10272 of 51453
I do wonder what was going on with the "burning" tweeter smell... it would concern me, and I may look to get them repaired under warranty. Perhaps overheating the voice coils in the tweeters with the amp starting to clip at that volume? It might be a question better posed on the general speaker forum as it's not necessarily Energy specific....

If he does call up Energy to see about warranty issues, I might not mention the 5 pints and the +8 volume though
post #10273 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

As per the Audyssey guide, change speakers from "Full Band" and set a crossover on the C-100/C-C100, try 60Hz and 80Hz and see which sounds better. I assume you have an Onkyo receiver right?

Read this: http://www.audyssey.com/faq/index.html#largesmall

You didn't mention what surrounds you have so it's hard to judge the 150Hz...

Turn Double Bass OFF (although it will actually be irrelevant once you take the speakers off "full band")




the fact that your sub trim is maxed out to the negative means you need to turn down the volume on your sub and re-run Audyssey. Your sub volume is way too high and Audyssey has "run out of room" trying to lower the volume level to match the other speakers.

You would ideally want the channel level trim to be closer to the middle, i.e. within +/- 6dB of 0, so you know the trim is correct and you have "wiggle room" for adjustment.


Thanks Batpig,

Just to confirm.

Yes I do have a Onkyo.

Also, you are saying that I need to set all of the fronts (LRC) to 60Hz and then also set them to 80Hz and just see what sounds better to me?

Sub = does it matter that my sub is set to 150 Hz meaning ( I think I turned my Sub knob the wrong way and is should be set to like 20 Hz) Note: Im note sure what the knob says. One way is 150 and the other is 20? maybe. I'll look when I get home.
post #10274 of 51453
Quote:


Also, you are saying that I need to set all of the fronts (LRC) to 60Hz and then also set them to 80Hz and just see what sounds better to me?

correct, you want to take the speakers off of "full band" and apply a crossover so the low bass goes to the sub. Try 60 vs. 80 and pick the one that sounds better / smoother to you.

The receiver sets them to "full band" but there is no way those speakers are even close to full range in reality. That is why Audyssey always recommends resetting speakers to have a crossover (i.e. receivers other than Onkyo call this the "small" setting).

Quote:


Sub = does it matter that my sub is set to 150 Hz meaning ( I think I turned my Sub knob the wrong way and is should be set to like 20 Hz) Note: Im note sure what the knob says. One way is 150 and the other is 20? maybe. I'll look when I get home.

The controls ON THE SUB should be set so that they don't interfere with the receiver's digital bass management. That means you defeat the sub's built-in crossover/LPF if possible, or if not possible turn the knob UP to the HIGHEST setting so you get it out of the way. The bass management / crossovers are done in the receiver.

The only change you need to make is:

1. make sure the xover on the sub itself is turned all the way up
2. re-run Audyssey with the volume gain on the sub turned down about 1/3 of the way, in order to get your channel level trim off the extreme setting it is on now
3. after running Audyssey, take your front speakers off "full band" and set a crossover.
post #10275 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

it could be, but at the prices they are going for you may as well have a matching "front end". with a room that long, 7.1 is totally viable and you could simply shift the two front Takes to the rear and complete the setup. The entire front "soundstage" would improve dramatically with larger speakers at L/R/C.

Check out Audio Advisor's stock on C-Series:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=234

You can get a pair of C-50 bookshelves + a C-C50 center for well under $200 shipped.

Also WWStereo, if shipping works out too much from AA, has C-50's + C-C50 for $180 shipped.

The larger C-100 / C-C100 (Vann's and buy.com) setup would still only be around $225 shipped.

OK. I just ordered a C-C100 center speaker (113.99 from buy.com) and a pair of C-100s (108.88 from Vanns), for 222.87 total, the lowest prices I could find at the moment. I'll keep the current 8 inch subwoofer, at least for now. Thanks to all for the advice.
post #10276 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

correct, you want to take the speakers off of "full band" and apply a crossover so the low bass goes to the sub. Try 60 vs. 80 and pick the one that sounds better / smoother to you.

The receiver sets them to "full band" but there is no way those speakers are even close to full range in reality. That is why Audyssey always recommends resetting speakers to have a crossover (i.e. receivers other than Onkyo call this the "small" setting).



The controls ON THE SUB should be set so that they don't interfere with the receiver's digital bass management. That means you defeat the sub's built-in crossover/LPF if possible, or if not possible turn the knob UP to the HIGHEST setting so you get it out of the way. The bass management / crossovers are done in the receiver.

The only change you need to make is:

1. make sure the xover on the sub itself is turned all the way up
2. re-run Audyssey with the volume gain on the sub turned down about 1/3 of the way, in order to get your channel level trim off the extreme setting it is on now
3. after running Audyssey, take your front speakers off "full band" and set a crossover.

Thanks again.

Another question. When I watch movies, I think everything sounds pretty good, but when I put in a music DVD like Dave Matthews live at Piedmont Park it doesn't sound good at all. Could what you said above have something to do with this?
post #10277 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by nidhanwala View Post

1. I have a dog, a large dog. Dog is very gentle but with a tail that could club a man to death. The speakers are in shipment but will take 1-2 weeks to arrive. I have never owned bookshelf speakers and don't know if it is possible to mount/bolt the speakers to the stand. If so, are there any stand recommendations to pair with the C100s? If not, I've read on the forums everything from Blu-Tack, double-sided tape, etc. What would you guys recommend?

You could try something like I did with my old system, build a box around the speaker and paint it to match. Bolt it to the stand that way nothing will touch or wreck the bottom of the speaker and virtualy impossible to fall over unless the entire stand goes down.

For more pics click on the previous post, I cut out 2 of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_40k View Post




post #10278 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by dankfoot View Post

Thanks again.

Another question. When I watch movies, I think everything sounds pretty good, but when I put in a music DVD like Dave Matthews live at Piedmont Park it doesn't sound good at all. Could what you said above have something to do with this?

Possibly.

Also try switching the play modes on your receiver (ie: PLIIx, Neo6, Direct, etc) makes a little difference.
post #10279 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHolman View Post

I realize this is a novice question -- but I had been using a HTIB Onkyo HTR 330 in my basement theater, and was really pretty satisfied with the sound, which seemed well balanced. But the Onkyo had no HDMI input, required for my Samsung 1500's DTS-HD. So I bought a Yamaha HTR 6140 (aka RX-V463) which does, and an Energy Take 5.1 classic system to pair with the Yamaha, the Samsung 1500 and a Mitsubishi HC-1500 projector.

To my surprise, I'm a lot less satisfied than I was with my old Onkyo setup. My chief complaint is that the dialog now seems too "faraway" and hard to pick out from the rest of the audio. That leads me to wonder if the Take 5.1 classic system, especially its center channel, is going to be adequate for my room. My basement theater is 10 feet wide by 21 feet long, with 7 foot, 3 inch ceilings. My theater chairs are about 16 feet back from the 106 inch screen, and the center, left and right speakers sit about a foot in front of the screen, or 15 feet from the listening area, with the surrounds to the left and right just above ear level -- same place I had all the Onkyos. (Things are a bit more complicated, as there is a hallway that adjoins the theater at a right angle, which you could say makes it four or five feet longer, though a room-divider helps separate the hall.)

I'm disappointed that the more expensive Yamaha/Energy system feels wimpier, at least with respect to its center channel and dialog, than the Onkyo. Should I consider connecting the Yamaha to the Onkyo speakers, and just use the Energy's active subwoofer (the Onkyo's subwoofer is passive and won't work with the Yamaha). Or, should I think about replacing the Energy Take 5.1's center speaker with something larger in the Energy line? Or is there some other solution for my dialog dilemma?


I believe batpig and PoshFrosh already solved your concern about the center speaker. Just want to chime in with my similar experience.

Upgraded from an HTIB, I also got the Take Classic just recently with a new receiver. I had the same feeling like you did, that Take Classic did not impress me at all when I connected everything together. So I did a little research by reading nearly a hundred pages in this thread, which led me to order a pair of C-100 last week.

Meanwhile I did a little cross study on the speakers and receiver. I hooked up the old HTIB speakers with the new receiver. The sound was not as good as they were before. Next step was the Audyssey setup. Lo and behold the sound became vivid again! Even with the old speakers the improvement was noticeable.

So what disappointed me before was the unadjusted Take Classic sound. This experience reminds me the feeling when I first grabbed a DSLR over DC to take pictures. The direct images out of the DSLR had better dynamic range, but were not as vivid or contrast as the pictures taken from a DC. The point and shot cameras, on the other hand, usually adjust the images automatically. The pictures can be more attractive, but some details may be lost.

In my opinion (don't flame me if I'm wrong), the HTIBs tend to spice the sound up a little bit. But the dynamic range and the details processed by the receiver provide different level of sounding experience, in which I'm still learning and exploring!
post #10280 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by jome View Post

Upgraded from an HTIB, I also got the Take Classic just recently with a new receiver.

I might get 'stoned' for this and keep in mind I am not taking shots at anyone, just trying to fulfill my own curiousity...

Why do people 'upgrade' from HTIB/Bose system to other satellite systems (ie take classics) and think it's going to be that much better? It doesn't make sense and isn't much of an upgrade in my mind. I can understand household limitations needing small speakers and budget restraints, but if you already have a sat system and it works the way it should why bother? Because you always seem to hear people complain that "the Bose sounded better". To me an upgrade would be going from a sat system to a bookshelf or tower speaker.

Just my rant. Again, no offense is meant to anyone.
post #10281 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHolman View Post

OK. I just ordered a C-C100 center speaker (113.99 from buy.com) and a pair of C-100s (108.88 from Vanns), for 222.87 total, the lowest prices I could find at the moment. I'll keep the current 8 inch subwoofer, at least for now. Thanks to all for the advice.

Yay! Another one takes the plunge! Good choice. In fact that was exactly my setup (until yesterday when my BIC 12 sub arrived).

I will say this: if you are into watching movies, have another $200 you can spend, don't mind having a big black box in the corner, and don't have to worry too much about noise complaints for neighbors, you are going to want a better sub. The difference is substantial. I had read that suggestion throughout these forums many a time, but I didn't really understand it until I took the plunge myself. I won't say anything more about it, because it's something you have to hear/feel yourself to believe.

The good news is that it will be easier to find a sub later or at any time because you don't have to "match" the sub to your speakers the way you should match the speakers to each other. So poke around the forums and read about some of the favorite bang for your buck subs (such as the PA-120) and toy around with the idea in your head. Before long, I bet you'll have upgraditis like many here.
post #10282 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_40k View Post

Again, no offense is meant to anyone.

None taken. The reason I went from HTIB to Take Classic is that the sub module was broken. And the Take Classic/receiver seemed like a good deal. I probably shouldn't use "upgrade" since it's more like a process of falling down into a bottomless hole
post #10283 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_40k View Post

Why do people 'upgrade' from HTIB/Bose system to other satellite systems (ie take classics) and think it's going to be that much better? It doesn't make sense and isn't much of an upgrade in my mind.

I'll chime in here since I recently "upgraded" from a Bose "sub"/sat system to the Take 5 Classic and the difference was substantial! And this was using a crappy $99 Sony sub with the Take 5's.

I understand your point, but your argument is flawed in a few ways. First, the Bose subs aren't real subs. I think they are 6", and real subs are 8"-15" Merely using the Bose sats with a different sub would likely provide much better sound overall, except...
Secondly, the Bose sats are too small (poorly constructed) to close the gap between low frequencies and high frequencies. In the Take 5 Classic the "sats" are actually miniature 2-way bookshelf speakers. I find the Take 5 to be very interesting in that regard. It rides the fine line between a sat and a bookshelf speaker and for smaller spaces, it is going to rock and blow away any Bose system for sure, and at a much lower price. Finally, if one accepts that Bose is overpriced and the Take 5 is better, this upgrade is often cheap or free if one sells the old Bose speakers on craigslist or whatever.
I'm sure others will chime in on this one, but I wanted to give my 2 cents since I just performed this particular "upgrade" in the past couple months.
To be fair, I continued the "upgrade" by adding C100 bookshelves and a C-C100 center, but people continually upgrade their systems around here all the time. Also my space is too big for the Take 5 to fill it.
Anyway, I guess the short answer is that there are good and bad sub/sat systems and one can upgrade while staying in that form factor.
Your argument is like saying "why do people sell a small car and just buy another small car." Obviously some small cars are better than others, no?
post #10284 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by jome View Post

I probably shouldn't use "upgrade" since it's more like a process of falling down into a bottomless hole

LOL! Darn, that answer is shorter, better, truer, and funnier than mine.

Also, yay, no flame war (yet).
post #10285 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by djh36 View Post

Yea, I think I may have to do something like that - Mount my C-C100 on top of the TV but tilted downwards (it will be really high up). Might end up wall-mounting it if possible.

I mounted mine with a piece of angle-iron and piano hinge as described in detail in this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=7678

Here's a sketch of the mounting detail. It's invisible, nice and solid, but can be easily adjusted for angle as required. If you need more downward angle, just use a larger piece of angle iron, or put a piece of blocking between the angle iron and the wall (a 1/2" to 3/4" plywood strip should be enough to give a pretty good downward angle):



Cheers,
The REAL Joe
post #10286 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

I understand your point, but your argument is flawed

PoshFrosh:

All I was trying to accomplish is to understand why, not argue. You made many good points to that regard. I have never owned a satellite system and was just curious. I wasn't knocking them, just that I've heard people say they tried to 'upgrade' their friend from Bose to Takes, and found the Bose was prefered and then the person wonder why their freind wasn't 'WOW'd'. To me it didn't make sense, but then again, sound is completely subjective.

Thanks for clearing that up
post #10287 of 51453
He wasn't "wow'd" . But after some tweaking and time.. He is much happier. He actually just bought two C-500's and a C-c100 so he can go 7.1.. He is stoked.. Sold his Lifestyle 28 for $900....
post #10288 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrdluck13 View Post

He wasn't "wow'd" . But after some tweaking and time.. He is much happier. He actually just bought two C-500's and a C-c100 so he can go 7.1.. He is stoked.. Sold his Lifestyle 28 for $900....

It wasn't just you, People I work with LOVE Bose. I just smile and nod
post #10289 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

I'll chime in here since I recently "upgraded" from a Bose "sub"/sat system to the Take 5 Classic and the difference was substantial! And this was using a crappy $99 Sony sub with the Take 5's.

I understand your point, but your argument is flawed in a few ways. First, the Bose subs aren't real subs. I think they are 6", and real subs are 8"-15" Merely using the Bose sats with a different sub would likely provide much better sound overall, except...
Secondly, the Bose sats are too small (poorly constructed) to close the gap between low frequencies and high frequencies. In the Take 5 Classic the "sats" are actually miniature 2-way bookshelf speakers. I find the Take 5 to be very interesting in that regard. It rides the fine line between a sat and a bookshelf speaker and for smaller spaces, it is going to rock and blow away any Bose system for sure, and at a much lower price. Finally, if one accepts that Bose is overpriced and the Take 5 is better, this upgrade is often cheap or free if one sells the old Bose speakers on craigslist or whatever.
I'm sure others will chime in on this one, but I wanted to give my 2 cents since I just performed this particular "upgrade" in the past couple months.
To be fair, I continued the "upgrade" by adding C100 bookshelves and a C-C100 center, but people continually upgrade their systems around here all the time. Also my space is too big for the Take 5 to fill it.
Anyway, I guess the short answer is that there are good and bad sub/sat systems and one can upgrade while staying in that form factor.
Your argument is like saying "why do people sell a small car and just buy another small car." Obviously some small cars are better than others, no?

I agree with most of what you've said except...
Quote:


First, the Bose subs aren't real subs. I think they are 6", and real subs are 8"-15" Merely using the Bose sats with a different sub would likely provide much better sound overall

The way the Bose system is created so that you have to use that crappy bass module. You can't eliminate it and just add a better sub. All the sats have to run thru it. What you have to do is keep the bass module in place AND add a real subwoofer. Then the setup may be acceptable or even good.
post #10290 of 51453
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealjoeblow View Post

I mounted mine with a piece of angle-iron and piano hinge as described in detail in this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=7678

Here's a sketch of the mounting detail. It's invisible, nice and solid, but can be easily adjusted for angle as required. If you need more downward angle, just use a larger piece of angle iron, or put a piece of blocking between the angle iron and the wall (a 1/2" to 3/4" plywood strip should be enough to give a pretty good downward angle):



Cheers,
The REAL Joe

Thanks a ton Joe! That's very helpful, although...just like you, I'm not very eager to drill holes in my center speaker...
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