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Energy Owners Thread - Page 398

post #11911 of 51598
I just picked up the S10.3 from Vann's. I figured I'd grab the deal before it was gone.

Batpig, you compared $200-250 to $400-500 subs above. What price range would you consider the S10.3? I paid $199 for it, but it's listed at $529... just wondering.
post #11912 of 51598
it can't compete with the $400-450 SVS or eD subs. So I'd say its a $200-$250 sub.

I own one but never would have purchased it if it was $529.
post #11913 of 51598
yes, from the measurements I've seen it can compete with ANY sub $300 or under, it has big output down to 25Hz and will play very clean, low distortion. It can even tickle 20Hz (although its output is down quite a bit).

But once you get to the $350 and up range, you start playing with the big boys in terms of all-out raw performance. The S12.3 is more of a match for those $400-500 subs.

EDIT: just to add some more data, it's always difficult to find apples-to-apples comparisons but the S10.3 and the SVS PB12-NSD (a real monster) have both been tested by Sound & Vision using the same methodology:

S10.3 (part of Take system review): http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...tem-page3.html
SVS PB12: (part of SVS system review): http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...er-system.html

Energy S10.3:

Bass limit: 20 Hz at 84 dB SPL
104 dB average SPL from 25 to 62 Hz
108 dB maximum SPL at 62 Hz
bandwidth uniformity 97%

SVS PB12-NSD:

Bass limit: 20 Hz at 96 dB SPL
105 dB average SPL from 25 to 62 Hz
109.4 dB maximum SPL at 32 Hz
bandwidth uniformity 97%

Notice that the PB12 totally trounces the S10.3 below 25Hz, but the S10.3 comes close in terms of overall output in the 25-62Hz window, and identical uniformity.
post #11914 of 51598
Batpig- what do you think about this set up? It's all used but the deal sounds appetizing. A small shop in Mass is asking $1,600 for an Arcam AVR 350 paired up with some old Energy 22.2s. I've heard good things about both. The Arcam presents a problem as it doesn't carry audio to multi channels via HDMI. I would be powering whatever I decide to buy with an outdated never used Denon 1804. Not sure if theres enough power even in 2 channel mode. Would I be better off with an upper echelon Denon with the Rc-50 or 70. I've got a claustrophobic 14\\12 living room. The neighbors are finicky with sound too. Is it possible to get good clean sound out of the 50 or 70 at a reasonable volume. I don't want anything too small as this residence is not permenant. Whatever I get is gonna be with me for awhile. Any advice would be appreciated. Oh, everywhere I go in this state(Ct) Paradigm seems to corner the market. I've gotta travel 75 miles to audition the 30s and 70s. Thanks again guys for all the valuable information.
post #11915 of 51598
I've never heard the older 22.2's.... but considering that price, and that you are looking for something to last you a while, I would go with the newer models. RC-50's for $700 shipped, brand new w/ 5-year warranty, is just a steal. $1600 seems a little excessive for that deal, although Arcam gear is very nice.

I would most certainly listen to them thoroughly if you go that route. The 22.2's were well acclaimed in their time but they are almost 20 yrs old now.

If you could get a pair of 22.2's for $300 or something that would be one thing, but at that price I'd rather buy newer gear.

question: why would you need the Arcam if you already have a functioning AVR right now? An Arcam is much higher end than a Denon 1804, but the 1804 will have plenty of juice to run the RC-50's or RC-70's to pretty insane volumes in a 14x12 room, and then when you move to a bigger place you can get a newer AVR with HDMI features more suitable to the space.

I would invest in speakers NOW and then get a nice AVR if/when you move.
post #11916 of 51598
Appreciate the honest advice. Your right about having functional AVR. My only concern is to get the most sonically out of whatever line of Energys I purchase. I've got upgraditis with a dollar menu budget. I probably will be going with the Vanns route as there blowin out the 50s and 70s. A Paradigm dealer claims that Energys don't sound good until there pushed and that on a linear level Paradigms sound good at any volume. What are your thoughts on that? He also claims that Energy has quality control issues. Would the RC- 70 be a good comparison to the Studio 60? Thanks again, I enjoy reading your posts
post #11917 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis S View Post

Appreciate the honest advice. Your right about having functional AVR. My only concern is to get the most sonically out of whatever line of Energys I purchase. I've got upgraditis with a dollar menu budget. I probably will be going with the Vanns route as there blowin out the 50s and 70s. A Paradigm dealer claims that Energys don't sound good until there pushed and that on a linear level Paradigms sound good at any volume. What are your thoughts on that? He also claims that Energy has quality control issues. Would the RC- 70 be a good comparison to the Studio 60? Thanks again, I enjoy reading your posts

Horsey poo.

I listened to several Paradigm's when I auditioned the RCs back in 06. I'd place them pretty close together, but I preferred the Energy's at any volume level.
post #11918 of 51598
I will say this about my energy c-series. They sound much better at moderate to high volume, OR using dynamic eq. I feel like the sound quality at low volume isn't as good as other speakers. By low, I mean like 30 or 40 db under reference. They really start shining around 20 db under reference and up... Take into account 20 db under reference isn't that loud.

Speakers in general take a quality hit at low volumes. The energies more than the others though.
post #11919 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefast View Post

I will say this about my energy c-series. They sound much better at moderate to high volume, OR using dynamic eq. I feel like the sound quality at low volume isn't as good as other speakers. By low, I mean like 30 or 40 db under reference. They really start shining around 20 db under reference and up... Take into account 20 db under reference isn't that loud.

Speakers in general take a quality hit at low volumes. The energies more than the others though.

I could agree with that with the C-100s, but not the RCs. The RCs and the Studios match up very well, I think, but I'd give the edge to the RCs, at least as much as I can after hearing them in different places. No place I know of where they can be auditioned together, except at home. Never did that.
post #11920 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I could agree with that with the C-100s, but not the RCs. The RCs and the Studios match up very well, I think, but I'd give the edge to the RCs, at least as much as I can after hearing them in different places. No place I know of where they can be auditioned together, except at home. Never did that.

Yeah, I have c-300s, but I'm sure they're similar to the c-100s. I've only compared them to 3 different sets of kefs (IQs, 2005, 3005), and a set of b&w (700 series). Extreme low volume listening isn't that important to me anyways.
post #11921 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

...Another thing that I found interesting was that the measured performance suffered with the grills on.

Good point about the grilles, although I wish they had included the graph with grille on for comparison. I've always left them on, but I guess I'd better try taking them off to see if I can hear the difference.

And note that the the horizontal vs vertical graphs of the LCR are a bit misleading because the angles measured are very different. 45 and 60 degrees off-axis is a lot, and the review does add this:
Quote:


"And while the off-axis response is also a little uneven, it is flatter than we have measured from any center channel design that only uses three drivers in a woofer-tweeter-woofer configuration. The responses at 15-degrees and 30-degrees off-axis, not shown here, show curves that are relatively close to the averaged on-axis response."
post #11922 of 51598
correct you are, good point. I agree about the grille-on measurement; whenever a reviewer mentions a measurement he took, but then doesn't actually provide the data, it drives me nuts.

Energy speakers always do measure well though, and hold up great in reviews. I found this cool sub review that I'd seen before while browsing Sound&Vision:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...smic-subs.html

The S12.3 topped the field (along with the PSB Subsonic) when you look at the measurements:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ass...micsubslab.pdf

And the S12.3 measured with more output than the SVS PB12-NSD (although the PB12 dominates it below 25Hz).
post #11923 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefast View Post

Yeah, I have c-300s, but I'm sure they're similar to the c-100s. I've only compared them to 3 different sets of kefs (IQs, 2005, 3005), and a set of b&w (700 series). Extreme low volume listening isn't that important to me anyways.

I listened to several Paradigms, especially the Studio 20s, as well as the B&W 705s, when I settled on the Energy RC-LCRs back in '06. (I had no room for towers at the time, and these were all bookshelf/monitors.) I actually liked the B&Ws the best by a small margin, but the Studio 20s I placed behind the LCRs. The B&Ws would have been well over twice the price of the LCRs, which were on sale at the time. The RCs are clean and precise at any volume level. There's no harshness in that sound.
post #11924 of 51598
since I'm posting reviews, here's a Sound&Vision review of a 3 x RC-LCR system (inspired by Joseph Clark ), apparently they took it off Sound&Vision's website but Energy had a link to a scan of the magazine article:

http://www.energy-speakers.com/media...-june-2006.pdf
post #11925 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I listened to several Paradigms, especially the Studio 20s, as well as the B&W 705s, when I settled on the Energy RC-LCRs back in '06. (I had no room for towers at the time, and these were all bookshelf/monitors.) I actually liked the B&Ws the best by a small margin, but the Studio 20s I placed behind the LCRs. The B&Ws would have been well over twice the price of the LCRs, which were on sale at the time. The RCs are clean and precise at any volume level. There's no harshness in that sound.

At reference volume, I didn't like the B&Ws that much compared to other speakers, but they sounded the best at low volume, imo.
post #11926 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefast View Post

At reference volume, I didn't like the B&Ws that much compared to other speakers, but they sounded the best at low volume, imo.

Funny you should say that. Back in 06, I wasn't listening to much of anything at reference levels. I was taking care of my Godfather at the time, and he just couldn't handle the higher volumes. When he passed away, I actually started listening to a lot of things at much higher volume. What I found was that the Energy RCs could handle power at low and high volume levels very well. Perhaps if I'd bought the B&Ws, I'd be experiencing that discomfort you're talking about at higher levels.

When I pushed the volume higher with the RCs, I also found that I needed a bigger sub, because my little Orb 8" couldn't keep up. It started bottoming out. I ended up with the AV123 MFW-15, and recently had the well-documented amp problem with it. I'm using the RC-70s without a sub until I get the replacement amp.
post #11927 of 51598
Just installed the Take classic and my S10.3 paired with the Pioneer 1019. Room is 14X11 with vaulted ceilings.

The takes sound ehh, I ran the calibration on the pioneer which helped but I am not getting the big sound I want. I am actually very disappointed with the sound. I will be shipping back the takes but keep the sub. Do you think a pair of C-200 for my fronts and 1 C-100 center and 2 C-50 for my rears will give me what I am looking for? I know a few weeks ago there were several online vendors almost giving these away. Does anyone have links for some good deals still? I would need black ash. Any other recommendations would greatly be appreciated. Trying to stay under $500 as I just dropped $4,000 on my new Pioneer PDP and receiver. Kinda broke now, lol.

Thanks...
post #11928 of 51598
I went to order some b-stock cb-10s from wwstereo... they're gone
post #11929 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Funny you should say that. Back in 06, I wasn't listening to much of anything at reference levels. I was taking care of my Godfather at the time, and he just couldn't handle the higher volumes. When he passed away, I actually started listening to a lot of things at much higher volume. What I found was that the Energy RCs could handle power at low and high volume levels very well. Perhaps if I'd bought the B&Ws, I'd be experiencing that discomfort you're talking about at higher levels.

When I pushed the volume higher with the RCs, I also found that I needed a bigger sub, because my little Orb 8" couldn't keep up. It started bottoming out. I ended up with the AV123 MFW-15, and recently had the well-documented amp problem with it. I'm using the RC-70s without a sub until I get the replacement amp.

They're a bit too bright for my tastes, not klipsch I'll drive you out of the room bright, but too bright for my tastes. One thing I like about my energies is that I can crank them up for hours with no fatigue at all.
post #11930 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefast View Post

They're a bit too bright for my tastes, not klipsch I'll drive you out of the room bright, but too bright for my tastes. One thing I like about my energies is that I can crank them up for hours with no fatigue at all.

Bing!
post #11931 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikk7 View Post

Just installed the Take classic and my S10.3 paired with the Pioneer 1019. Room is 14X11 with vaulted ceilings.

The takes sound ehh, I ran the calibration on the pioneer which helped but I am not getting the big sound I want. I am actually very disappointed with the sound. I will be shipping back the takes but keep the sub. Do you think a pair of C-200 for my fronts and 1 C-100 center and 2 C-50 for my rears will give me what I am looking for? I know a few weeks ago there were several online vendors almost giving these away. Does anyone have links for some good deals still? I would need black ash. Any other recommendations would greatly be appreciated. Trying to stay under $500 as I just dropped $4,000 on my new Pioneer PDP and receiver. Kinda broke now, lol.

Thanks...

I'd go RC-10, RC-mini C and C-50 in the rear. You won't get them for under $500 in black as the RC-10 is still very expensive. But from Vanns you can get the fronts in Cherry for $430 shipped, Audio Advisor has the C-50 in Cherry for $95. It would be a very nice set up
post #11932 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikk7 View Post

Just installed the Take classic and my S10.3 paired with the Pioneer 1019. Room is 14X11 with vaulted ceilings.

The takes sound ehh, I ran the calibration on the pioneer which helped but I am not getting the big sound I want. I am actually very disappointed with the sound. I will be shipping back the takes but keep the sub. Do you think a pair of C-200 for my fronts and 1 C-100 center and 2 C-50 for my rears will give me what I am looking for? I know a few weeks ago there were several online vendors almost giving these away. Does anyone have links for some good deals still? I would need black ash. Any other recommendations would greatly be appreciated. Trying to stay under $500 as I just dropped $4,000 on my new Pioneer PDP and receiver. Kinda broke now, lol.

Thanks...

The Takes were never going to give you "big" sound because they're not made for that. The C-200s plus C-C100 center will definitely fill the room better than the little satellites.

Are you opposed to towers? You could get the Energy C-300, C-C50 center and C-50 for surrounds and still be under $500.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/...,84__0_0_0_-1/

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/...,84__0_0_0_-1/

2 C-300s, one C-C50 and two C-50s would be just under $475 shipped.

Now if its the Energy sound you do not like, perhaps a speaker that is more open and detailed is what you're looking for? Checkout the Jamo E660 package for $380.

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/...103__0_0_0_-1/

The towers are 35" tall, but only 8" wide and 8" deep. They're pretty slim and curved towards the back and wont dominate a room of your size. But they provide big sound and you won't need to purchase speaker stands.
post #11933 of 51598
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The Takes were never going to give you "big" sound because they're not made for that. The C-200s plus C-C100 center will definitely fill the room better than the little satellites.

Are you opposed to towers? You could get the Energy C-300, C-C50 center and C-50 for surrounds and still be under $500.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/...,84__0_0_0_-1/

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/...,84__0_0_0_-1/

2 C-300s, one C-C50 and two C-50s would be just under $475 shipped.

Now if its the Energy sound you do not like, perhaps a speaker that is more open and detailed is what you're looking for? Checkout the Jamo E660 package for $380.

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/...103__0_0_0_-1/

The towers are 35" tall, but only 8" wide and 8" deep. They're pretty slim and curved towards the back and wont dominate a room of your size. But they provide big sound and you won't need to purchase speaker stands.

I See you are suggesting a C-C50 center with C-300 towers? Do you not feel like the C-C50 will be outnumbered here? both is sound and appearance by the C-300 towers? I have been throwing around these same ideas, as the C-C50 would fit in our setup much better, and is quite affordable right now compared to the C-C100 (and I would also lose a little freq response). I have been leaning toward a C-C100 and two C-50's from the front end of our new setup, mainly so when the towers get added at a later date the will not dwarf the C-C50. But the C-C50 fits both the area and the budget better right now, so I am stuck wondering still. What are your opinions here? I have a pretty detailed post with pictures a couple pages back asking these same questions.
post #11934 of 51598
People have used the C-C100 and C-C50 with the C-300s. They both work fine, you may have adjust to the center channel setting a little higher with the C-C50 but that's easy enough to do.

I was just trying to save you money because your budget is $500.

The C-C100 is quite a bit bigger also so make sure you have room if you order that one.
post #11935 of 51598
im not teknikk7, lol, i have just been thinking along the same lines. i plan on eventually getting four c-50's, either a c-c50 or a c-c100, and last but not least two c-300's to finish up the 7.1 (already have a PSW10) and have just been contemplating between the c-c50 and the c-c100.. price, size, sound, availability and how each will stack up with the c-300's in the future...
post #11936 of 51598
saw this deal last week and am glad to see a lot of discussion about the S10.3 here

I ordered one, i should be getting it by Friday. I know its going to be a very nice upgrade from my aging Energy Encore 8! It worked out really well because I was waiting for this model to go on sale because the Front controls make it easily tunable for me since this is going in my bedroom PC audio setup
post #11937 of 51598
The volume is the only thing on the front, all the other controls are still on the back.
post #11938 of 51598
I just ordered a pair of cf-30s,cb-10s and s10.3 and was wondering on a center channel to work with these speakers this is my first surround sound purchase ever i have a onkyo 607 to work with these speakers i hope they will be just fine????
post #11939 of 51598
you should get one of the matching centers from the new Connoisseurs series, the CC-10 would be best but if you have space restrictions the CC-5 would also work. The Onkyo 607 will have no problems powering this setup, the Connoisseurs are pretty efficient and are designed to work with mid level receivers like your Onk.

please do report back when you have it set up, we are all anxious for some reviews on the new Connoisseurs models!
post #11940 of 51598
dont have any space resticktions so will try and get the cc-10. hope to find some on sale somewhere. thanks for the quick responce.
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