Energy Owners Thread - Page 457

The problem is the C-50 is a far worse center than your RC-30 towers. The tweeters are better in the RC series. You need to step up to the RC-LCR. I sincerely doubt you'll have the same issues with a much better center.

The problem with running a phantom center is that you need to sit in the sweet spot for best results. If you're sitting off axis to the sides the center channel imaging wont work as well. Try it yourself, sit where your other guest may sit and see how it sounds. If you think its fine from everywhere in the room then maybe you don't need a center speaker.

So some of you may recall from my earlier postings on this thread the I recently upgraded my C-100 mains to C-500's and my PA-120 sub to dual ESW V-10's. So the current 7.2 setup is: C-500 mains, CC-100 center, four C-100's as surrounds, dual V10 subs, and Denon 1909 powering it. After letting the newer speakers break in nicely over the last few weeks, I re-ran Audessey this morning and all I can say is OH MY ! ! Only tweak I made was I knocked the surrounds down a few Db each (I think Audessey sets them a bit hot for my tastes)

I listened to the first 20 minutes or so of Bolt, Quantum of Solace, and Watchmen. The sound is amazing. this setup really rocks, the dual v10's just fill the room with clean, solid, punchy bass. Really nice.

-15 on the receiver almost is a perfect (and plenty loud) listening level. any higher and holy crap.

Thanks to everyone on this board for advice and such that I dug up here.

Does anyone have an opinion on the C-C100 matched with 4 C-100's compared to the Take LCR or Take FPS for the center?

So I went ahead and got the C-C50 for about $100. When I set this thing up with my take energy speakers, should I cross over the C-C50 at 110Hz like I have done for my classics? I see you recommended 80,90,or 100 for someone else. Will it create an unbalanced system if I crossover my center at 80Hz and everything else at 110?

Yeah, I have an opinion, GET THE C-C100! Have you seen that center? Its HUGE! 20 lbs, dual 5.5 inch drivers, about 10" deep. Its a better speaker than the 4 C-100s.

The Take LCR and FPS are compromise speakers meant for flat panel wall mounting. Neither one can compare to the C-C100s. They wont have the fullness of sound or play as deep in the bass region.

I used to own the this exact setup. Just sold the C-100s and C-C100 center locally 2 weeks ago.

dont waste your time on those other centers.

After a couple months of research, I decided to throw it all out the window and postpone the big HT system and picked up a smaller system spur of the moment last night.

Along the way I had decided on an Aperion 5T system, an Axiom system, Klipsch WF-34 system was in there for a while, Energy RC-70's were on the table briefly, various systems in the Def Tech Mythos line, and the Energy Take Classic was going to be the way to go as an interim stop gap measure at about six points during this research for the bedroom only.

The set-up we got will eventually move to our bedroom where I'm sure it will be far more than we will ever need but for now it will do the trick in the living room very nicely. Considering that we are moving from television speakers, this is a pretty major step up and will likely postpone a larger system for a while.

Anyway, here be the goods:
4 x Energy-Mini Sat's
1 x Energy-Mini Center
Upgraded sub from the Mini package to the V10

Denon AVR-790

Panny BD60

Panny 42" G15 (to be replaced with a 54" V10 sometime between now and Boxing day, assuming we like how plasma looks in the living room)

Of course, I got all this stuff home and realized I know jack-squat about setting up AV equipment and nearly puked when I looked at the back of the receiver. Three or four hours later, everything seemed to work with the only major glitch being no power cable with the Sub, so I haven't had a chance to shake any walls yet. The worst part of the whole experience was doing this all without access to Batpig's guides - we are in mid-move and all computer equipment was still at the old place.

Thanks to these forums I was equipped with enough knowledge to do this spur of the moment in the store (where the sales reps had trouble distinguishing between the Micro, Mini and Take Classic series).

I'll be back shortly to beg for help in getting everything set up properly, no doubt. Based on the very brief listening and viewing though, I think we will be happy with this in the living room and it gives me plenty of time to obsess over the future system now.

I Finally did it. Just placed the order for (2) C-100's from AA. I had pretty much decided on the smaller 50's, but ran into some cash and figured I couldn't go wrong at $145 shipped. Now since these speaker are able to be bi-amped, what do you guys think about using channels 6 and 7 from my receiver (supposed to be rear channels) and using them to bi-amp these 100's? Is this even doable or a complete waste of time?

sounds awesome!

out of curiosity, did you get a chance to compare ONE of the ESW-V10's vs the PA-120? I'm curious how much of a step up that was from the larger 12" "budget" sub to the smaller, but "high end" 10" sub. That gets asked a lot, and my sense has always been that the PA-120 may have a little more output but the V10 would be cleaner and tighter.

also, remember to bump up the crossovers a bit from where Audyssey set them. Chances are your C-500's were set to 40Hz and the C-100's to 60Hz, but with all that tasty dual-subwoofage you should send as much of that low bass to them as possible. I would definitely go 60-80Hz for the C-500's and 80Hz for the others. The C-500's are big but they can't compete with the dual V10's in that bottom octave, and you will free up headroom in the receiver's amps....

It is mind boggling how often we as engineers make silly math errors when it doesnt matter. Using a calculator is making me lazy...

Waste of time IMO. Leave the binding post bridges in place and hook up a single set of speaker cables.

I would try it and see, although there's nothing wrong with different crossovers for the different speakers. If you have an Audyssey-equipped receiver it should do that anyway. I would go with 80-90Hz for the C-C50 and then 120Hz for the sats.

if you aren't going to use a sub, and with 60% music, most definitely get the tower speakers. Remember that the price gap is smaller since the RC-10's need stands, and the extra bass response will be crucial for 2ch music.

Sounds like you are taking the "build slowly" approach which is very smart if you want to maximize quality in the long-term. Since 2-ch music is a big priority, I would strongly suggest getting the best 2 front speakers you can afford, so if you have space for the RC-50's (both physically and budgetary) go for it, you will not regret it! Just note that the RC-50's have a much larger footprint than the RC-30's if space is a concern. RC-50's will have the same top end as the RC-30's but will dig deeper and have more control in the bass region.

I did get to compare the PA-120 and the single V10 as I was waiting for V10 #2 to arrive. Let's just say that I ordered another V10 after the A/B comparison.
Your sense about the two subs is about spot-on. The PA-120 definitely is able to put out more volume, more rumble, but it is "looser" I guess you could say. Not that the PA is bad, it is great, just not exactly what I wanted in my setup (about 25% music, 15% gaming, 60% HT). The V10 has a much tighter, more musical and distinct sound, but a lower volume. With the single, it was not a shaking the walls thing, but the duals fixed that, BIG time. Running duals will shake walls and they are tight enough to create the mid-bass punch that you can feel in your chest. The single PA could not do that.
Thanks for the advice on the crossovers, Audessey set my mains as large so I fixed that right away, and it set my center at 40, which I bumped up to 60. Now it is fronts: 40, and center, surround, s. back at 60, LFE at 120. I will try setting fronts to 60 and 80 for others as you suggest and see if it can get even better.
Thanks Batpig, BTW you are our hero

batpig is our CEO (Chief Energy Officer), without the multi-million dollar bonuses CEOs usually get. You can donate if you want, and he'd probably evem take the million if you were feeling a bit generous.

Million? Nah.....Can't swing that. But I kicked in some

So tonight I'm going to order (4) C-100's & a C-C100 for about $450.

(4) C-100's = $280 shipped
(1) C-C100 = $170 shipped

Does anyone have serious objections to this? i.e. could I get a much better 5.0 system for the same money? I could save a little money ~$70 by going with the C-50's for the rear LR instead of the matching C-100's...but I figure the C-100's would be nice to have if I end up going with a 7.1 system eventually.

I plan to allocate another $250-300 for a sub in a couple weeks (after more research of course).

No objections! That will be a great little system. You could definitely "skimp" on the surrounds and go with C-50's, especially if you are wall-mounting, and direct that money towards the subwoofer (an extra $50 will go a long way when you are in the $200-300 range for subwoofers) depending on how tight the budget is. Unless you are big into multichannel music it's not necessary for the surrounds to be as capable as the mains.

I think that's a good setup! Batpig is correct if you want to save $50-60 by going for C-50 surrounds. The only other alternative system I might recommend would be the Jamo E660 package if you have room for small towers.
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/...103__0_0_0_-1/

Joseph

Just wondering how the RC10's vs RC30's compare. I've placed an order for RC10's, but now considering to trade those for the RC30's instead. Mostly for music and some movies but not much.

Thank you.

Depends on your budget. The 30s will go lower, absolutely, and I think the "separation" is better, just as it is with the RC-70s. But, the RC-10s are excellent speakers, like small towers themselves. If you can't afford the RC-30s, you'll find an awful lot to like in the RC-10s, especially in smaller rooms. For music, though, the fuller range of the RC-30s would probably serve you better. I haven't had a chance to do a serious A/B with the speakers yet, but I like them both. I don't think I'll be able to part with my RC-10s at this point. I'm thinking Dolby IIz down the line. The RC-10s should make great front "height" channels for my main home theater, if I can figure out how in the world to mount them.

Great! Thank you!

I am curious how you ended up setting up the physical placement of your dual subs? Both in front, by each front speaker? or on the side walls of your room? or one in front and one in the back? And I apologize if you have posted this before, but what are the dimensions of your room?
Thanks

Wife and I were watching wall-e... At the end during the big space ship scene at the end of the mobie, my svs sub blew my hair back, and was making my clothes flap around a little. I freaked out because it felt like a cold breeze outside. I had it on 72db volume, and sub level in the receiver was at about 2db above reference. Also, tone bass control on the receiver was at +4, max setting is +10. I have the sub in the corner and the port of the svs is 4" front firing. So the port, and driver was facing directly at our seating position. The sub is about 15 feet away. It made me think of this...

I placed them right between the mains and the TV stand, one on each side. The room is about 19 feet wide by 17 deep, and a part of the back wall opens into the kitchen. The "theater area" is offset to the left side of the room, the screen is on the 19 foot wall, if that makes any sense. Here is a pic (next job is cable management) :

Any reputable stores to buy a c-c50 from? I finally decided to buy one and now it's gone at WWstereo/AA

I dont know how reputable WholesaleAV is, but they along with ebay are the last two places I can find any...

http://store.wholesaleav.com/enccechspb.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/Energy-C-C50-C-5...#ht_551wt_1165

In your opinion (and anyone else that wants to chime in), why is this a waste? Is it not normal practice to use the rear channels in a front speaker like this? I mean I have no objection to wiring them up singularly I am just curious as to how effective this option would be. Anyone tried it?

Several people have tested it and very few claim to notice a difference. The reason has something to do with receivers using a common power supply for all amplifier channels. That ends up being the limiting factor. You don't get a real increase of power going to each speaker by using multiple amps because of the common power supply within the receiver. I'm no expert, but that's my understanding.

I just bought one from wholesaleav.com. I received a very quick response via email about my cc address and delivery address not matching, which was resolved amicably. Although I don't think they have shipped yet and I placed the order 2 days ago. We'll see....

UPDATE: Of course ten minutes after I posted this I received an email that my speaker shipped!

Many people here have tried it to no effect. Do a thread search on "bi-amp" and you'll find lots of discussion on the topic. Only way to know for sure is to try it yourself. If you hear a difference, that's all that matters.