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Energy Owners Thread - Page 78

post #2311 of 51590
I ended up getting the RC-minis
and RC-mini center instead of RC-LCR.

It's hooked up to a Harmon Kardon AVR 247.
Still going through the recommended break-in period of 100 hours.

So far I'm very impressed with CD audio.
post #2312 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS1977 View Post

Has anyone compared the Veritas 2.3i to the RC 70, and if so what are the differences?

Yes



















haha yeah no seriously if you're a BIG BIG BIG music fan they're worth it. What really amazed me is the clarity of voices. can't have any better. that mid-range driver is really doing the trick. other than that i think that they're lacking a little on the low end. Some say that it's at the expense of quality but I still had a better "blast" listening to my rock/metal music with the RC's. Great speakers nontheless but I wouldn't pay 5000$ for a pair of speakers. Even if they are the more precise speakers I've ever heard.

p.s. I did an A/B comparison of those speakers. Same amp, same music.
post #2313 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS1977 View Post

Has anyone compared the Veritas 2.3i to the RC 70, and if so what are the differences?

I found the Veritas to have a more transparent sound. The mids are also slightly clearer. However, you can get some insane deals on the RC70s. I've seen them on FS for $1100 at one point. The Veritas is better but not that much better. They do however look a hell of a lot better than the RC series.
post #2314 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouettus View Post

Just got my RC-70s for christmas. Do I really have to break them in for 100 hours?! I mean... I've been dying to hear those sing loud enough in my room. How bad can it be?

If so... at what volume should I play music? low, moderate? (let's say on a non-calibrated yamaha volume scale... -40, -30?)

Congrats - hope you're enjoying them so far.

Break in for them is about 2 minutes. Not sure that you need to baby them. I've probably got about 70 hours or so on mine, and I'm abusing them whenever I can now with my new sub - and the 70's don't even break a sweat. What I really like about them is they don't get harsh when you turn them up. With most speakers, the louder you go - the harsher the upper range gets, but not so with the RC's - the 70's anyway.

I wouldn't crank them up too much yet though - like Jack and West said -I'd let them loosen up for 10 or 15 hours. After that - go to it. If you read the manual - it doesn't tell you not to do that - it tells you not to "critically listen" to them until the 100 hour break in has occured. So, if you've already listened to them for 10 hours or so (I'll bet you have) let 'er rip
post #2315 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS1977 View Post

Has anyone compared the Veritas 2.3i to the RC 70, and if so what are the differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mouettus View Post

Yes


haha yeah no seriously if you're a BIG BIG BIG music fan they're worth it. What really amazed me is the clarity of voices. can't have any better. that mid-range driver is really doing the trick. other than that i think that they're lacking a little on the low end. Some say that it's at the expense of quality but I still had a better "blast" listening to my rock/metal music with the RC's. Great speakers nontheless but I wouldn't pay 5000$ for a pair of speakers. Even if they are the more precise speakers I've ever heard.

p.s. I did an A/B comparison of those speakers. Same amp, same music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

I found the Veritas to have a more transparent sound. The mids are also slightly clearer. However, you can get some insane deals on the RC70s. I've seen them on FS for $1100 at one point. The Veritas is better but not that much better. They do however look a hell of a lot better than the RC series.

I've heard them but not side by side correctly - as the one RC70 in F/S"s speaker room had a tweeter or crossover problem, so the RC 70 sounded not too good to put it politely.

Oh, sorry, it was the 2.4i's, not the 2.3i's. The 2.4i's do definitely have more clarity and more airness to them. The speakers do tend to disappear more so than the RC's do. As mentioned here though -I don't think for the price difference it's worth it to me. But to be honest - if I wanted $5000 speakers - the 2.4is would be on my short list - and I would pay 5 grand for them if I decided on them. But my real name is not Bill Gates - 5 thousand is my budget for everything - including sub, processor, amp, DVD player, etc. And for $1100 - there is nothing - and I mean nothing - Internet Direct included - that IMO would equal the RC-70's, or even come close.

The imaging on these is what gets me. They really do have a 3D sound to them. They just don't place instruments in the proper speaker, but they put them at the proper depth. My other speakers (Ascends) can't do that, at least not even close to what the RC's can do. The Veritas line does the same but without the bass extension. Or, at least, without the bloated bass. The bass seems thin but I've only heard DSOTM on them. I would really like to take some of my high end Jazz recordings there - like Patricia Barber which has a lot of excellent acoustic string bass in it - that will really help me in determining what kind of bass the Veritas has. And now with my PB Ultra sub, I'm sure anything the Veritas was lacking in the bass would be more than picked up by the sub

Yikes - sorry for the long answer. If you have the money - I'd say go for the Veritas. If you're on a strict budget - go with the RCs. If the Vertias ever went on sale for half price though - I would buy them.
post #2316 of 51590
Mouettus, eightninesuited & Kpt_Krunch:

The deal I'm looking at is $2K plus my RC 30's for the Veritas 2.3's or like $1K plus my RC 30's for the RC 70's. The rest of my system consists of:

RC LCR
RC-R's
Mirage omni s8
Arcam AVR 350
Pioneer Elite DV 79
50-50 split between Audioquest and Kimber interconnects and cables

I am also thinking about upgrading the sub to one of the new Mirage Prestige's. Anyone heard these yet?
post #2317 of 51590
Just picked up a C-C100y C-500s and S10.3 (I am running a pair of Axiom rears). Sounds great! Although I notice that the dialogue can be quit quiet sometimes. If anyone has a similiar set up with a Yamaha receiver, what level do you have your centre channel set to??
post #2318 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS1977 View Post

Mouettus, eightninesuited & Kpt_Krunch:

The deal I'm looking at is $2K plus my RC 30's for the Veritas 2.3's or like $1K plus my RC 30's for the RC 70's. The rest of my system consists of:

RC LCR
RC-R's
Mirage omni s8
Arcam AVR 350
Pioneer Elite DV 79
50-50 split between Audioquest and Kimber interconnects and cables

I am also thinking about upgrading the sub to one of the new Mirage Prestige's. Anyone heard these yet?

Haven't heard the Prestige, but if you're looking at a new sub, you might consider the Energy S12.3. It's the same as the now discontinued Mirage S12. I have the Mirage version, and it's terrific.
post #2319 of 51590
Jacksmyname:

Thanks. However, I don't want a 12". I'm looking a 10" max. A dual *" would be my preference.
post #2320 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS1977 View Post

Jacksmyname:

Thanks. However, I don't want a 12". I'm looking a 10" max. A dual *" would be my preference.

Gotcha. I also have the Mirage S10 in a second system. It also rocks.
post #2321 of 51590
Just my .02... I had a mirage S10 and sold it for an Energy S12.3. honestly, if you want something more dynamic for HT, the 12 is great. The 10, as the 12, are great for music...no comparison for HT though, really.
post #2322 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

I assume you have the 2 Take-LCR's wall-mounted on either side of your Samsung LCD? I would also consider another Take-LCR for center as well.


You are right, I have a Take-LCR for center. It should say (3) not (2)
post #2323 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by rymack View Post

Just picked up a C-C100y C-500s and S10.3 (I am running a pair of Axiom rears). I notice that the dialogue can be quit quiet sometimes. If anyone has a similiar set up with a Yamaha receiver, what level do you have your centre channel set to??

you may want to experiment running YPAO a few times to see if it will re-set levels. Or you can also manually set level (for center, or any other channel) separately by going into SET-MENU. Moreover the dialog will vary for any given source whether it's from digital-cable TV channel or a DVD-movie.
post #2324 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS1977 View Post

Mouettus, eightninesuited & Kpt_Krunch:

The deal I'm looking at is $2K plus my RC 30's for the Veritas 2.3's or like $1K plus my RC 30's for the RC 70's. The rest of my system consists of:

RC LCR
RC-R's
Mirage omni s8
Arcam AVR 350
Pioneer Elite DV 79
50-50 split between Audioquest and Kimber interconnects and cables

I am also thinking about upgrading the sub to one of the new Mirage Prestige's. Anyone heard these yet?


For the 70's - I wouldn't do it. The RC 30's list for $1499 so you're basically paying retail - and right now they're on for $1799 here in Canada and as mentioned were on sale for $1199 not too long ago. For the 2.3i's, I'm not sure what their retail is so I can't comment on whether or not that woudl be a good deal. I would probably do it for the 2.4i's though
post #2325 of 51590
Well I extensively demo'd (3.5 hours) the RC 70's, the Veritas 2.3's and listened to the RC 30's all in the same room on the same system (Arcam AVP 700, P1000 and DV 79 transport). I started with the RC 30's to get a base line for how they sounded in the room (as opposed to my house), they went to the RC 70's and to the Veritas 2.3's.

After reading a number of reviews I went into the demo thinking that the RC 70's would be way better than the RC 30's and be as good or almost as good as the Veritas, and that the sonic differences between the RC 70's and the Veritas' wouldn't support the price difference I would be walking out with the RC 70's.

My conclusions about the 3 speakers are as follows (I'll put the caveat that what follows is all IMHO):

RC 30 vs. RC 70
- the RC 70 has better separation and is a tad more efficient than the RC 30
- the RC 70 has more lows/bass, but I found it way too boomy and bassy even with all of the port plugs in
- the bominess of the RC 70 was a real drawback and negated its better separation

Conclusion: If it were between the RC 70 and the RC 30 I would go with the RC 30 unless (1) I had a massive room to fill and could put the 70's 2-3 away from the wall and (2) there was less than a $250 price difference. If both of those things weren't present then I wouldn't buy the 70's because I am not big on alot of bass.

RC 70 vs Veritas 2.3i
- the Veritas have better separation, were more detailed, have a bigger soundstage and were more neutral
- the mids on the Veritas blew the mids on the 70's away and were more dynamic, despite the fact that the 2.3's were a more laid back speaker than the 70's
- the 2.3's were leaner than the 70's in the bass department, but the bass on the 2.3's didn't seem as boomy or bloated as the 70's
- the Veritas were less efficient than the 70's
- the Veritas almost seemed to disapper when I closed my eyes and listened, which the RC's did not
- the fact that the Veritas are front ported is also a big plus for me because it will allow me to save space by pushing them almost right up against the wall

The Veritas are almost a perfect speaker to my ears given my taste in music and equipment preferences, and I think I would have to spead close to double their $4K Canadian retail price to find a better speaker for my tastes.

Despite not wanting to spend the extra cash on the Veritas, I ended up choosing them. I ended up trading in my RC 30's (which I paid less than significantly less than retail) plus less than $2K including tax.
post #2326 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS1977 View Post

Well I extensively demo'd (3.5 hours) the RC 70's, the Veritas 2.3's and listened to the RC 30's all in the same room on the same system (Arcam AVP 700, P1000 and DV 79 transport). I started with the RC 30's to get a base line for how they sounded in the room (as opposed to my house), they went to the RC 70's and to the Veritas 2.3's.

After reading a number of reviews I went into the demo thinking that the RC 70's would be way better than the RC 30's and be as good or almost as good as the Veritas, and that the sonic differences between the RC 70's and the Veritas' wouldn't support the price difference I would be walking out with the RC 70's.

My conclusions about the 3 speakers are as follows (I'll put the caveat that what follows is all IMHO):

RC 30 vs. RC 70
- the RC 70 has better separation and is a tad more efficient than the RC 30
- the RC 70 has more lows/bass, but I found it way too boomy and bassy even with all of the port plugs in
- the bominess of the RC 70 was a real drawback and negated its better separation

Conclusion: If it were between the RC 70 and the RC 30 I would go with the RC 30 unless (1) I had a massive room to fill and could put the 70's 2-3 away from the wall and (2) there was less than a $250 price difference. If both of those things weren't present then I wouldn't buy the 70's because I am not big on alot of bass.

RC 70 vs Veritas 2.3i
- the Veritas have better separation, were more detailed, have a bigger soundstage and were more neutral
- the mids on the Veritas blew the mids on the 70's away and were more dynamic, despite the fact that the 2.3's were a more laid back speaker than the 70's
- the 2.3's were leaner than the 70's in the bass department, but the bass on the 2.3's didn't seem as boomy or bloated as the 70's
- the Veritas were less efficient than the 70's
- the Veritas almost seemed to disapper when I closed my eyes and listened, which the RC's did not
- the fact that the Veritas are front ported is also a big plus for me because it will allow me to save space by pushing them almost right up against the wall

The Veritas are almost a perfect speaker to my ears given my taste in music and equipment preferences, and I think I would have to spead close to double their $4K Canadian retail price to find a better speaker for my tastes.

Despite not wanting to spend the extra cash on the Veritas, I ended up choosing them. I ended up trading in my RC 30's (which I paid less than significantly less than retail) plus less than $2K including tax.

Good job SMS - thanks for the review. Like I had mentioned, if I had the budget - I would have bought the 2.4is' myself. To be honest, i haven't ruled out getting them down the road if like you I can trade up to them, but for right now the RC's are working just great and sound very good in my room. Thye use the same tweeter as the Veritas line - but the mids are better for sure in Veritas, as is the more articulate bass.

Note though that the Veritas line is both front and rear ported, not 'just' front ported. I'm not sure if that will make a huge difference or not as I would imagine they would not need the clearance that the rear only ported RC line would need.

Congrats and enjoy the Veritas - and I hope you keep posting your impressions of them
post #2327 of 51590
that review made me feel as if I where in the room, thanks. Your impressions I found where very similar to a review I read awhile back. It was a DBT which included the vertias 2.4s and it wasn't hard for the panel to distinguish the 2.4's from the other speaker, which incidentally cost half as much. That's why I can't audition the veritas because my subconscious.

Thanks again, Billy P
post #2328 of 51590
Nice review, SMS1977.
But, I'm surprised you found the RC-70's boomy.
I also don't like boomy bass. I find the 70's to be terrific with bass. They don't fail to keep me aware of the fact that the bass notes were created by musical instruments.
Anyway, congrats on your purchase.
post #2329 of 51590
Kpt_Krunch:

The 2.3i is only front ported...I looked and couldn't see any ports on the back.
post #2330 of 51590
Jacksmyname:

Keep in mind I found the RC 70's boomy in comparison to the RC 30's which would obviously have less bass and in comparison to the Veritas 2.3's which have a leaner and tighter bass. I wouldn't say they are bassy/boomy compared to Paradigm Studio 60's.
post #2331 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS1977 View Post

Kpt_Krunch:

The 2.3i is only front ported...I looked and couldn't see any ports on the back.

Yep - sorry - I keep confusing it with the 2.4is which are front and rear vented, the 2.3i's are only front vented. So it won't matter at all
post #2332 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksmyname View Post

Nice review, SMS1977.
But, I'm surprised you found the RC-70's boomy.
I also don't like boomy bass. I find the 70's to be terrific with bass. They don't fail to keep me aware of the fact that the bass notes were created by musical instruments.
Anyway, congrats on your purchase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS1977 View Post

Jacksmyname:

Keep in mind I found the RC 70's boomy in comparison to the RC 30's which would obviously have less bass and in comparison to the Veritas 2.3's which have a leaner and tighter bass. I wouldn't say they are bassy/boomy compared to Paradigm Studio 60's.


Hi Jack - without putting words in SMS's mouth - I took it this way. The Veritas bass - at least the 2.4i's, is not there at all compared to the RC's, it is thin and weak in comparison. However, that's not to say there was no bass, or didn't sound good - they sounded great. To be honest, I didn't want to spend a lot of time listening to them, or like SMS I may have walked out with them if they offered me some kind of deal. For me, and the price I paid, I think the RC line is fantastic. I don't regret buying them, and even my wife commented the other day on how much better everything sounds. And she's like all wives (or most) - she doesn't say much about my stuff, other than I'm spending too much money, so for her to comment on them is saying a lot
post #2333 of 51590
Where can I get Energy speakers in the States? Do any of the big box stores sell them?
post #2334 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

you may want to experiment running YPAO a few times to see if it will re-set levels. Or you can also manually set level (for center, or any other channel) separately by going into SET-MENU. Moreover the dialog will vary for any given source whether it's from digital-cable TV channel or a DVD-movie.

THanks for the advice. Is YPAO that microphone thingy? My Yamaha does not have that, if so. I had my old centre set at +5 db. If I were to go as high as +7 db, is that out of the ordinary? Just not sure what a good happy medium should be.
post #2335 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by rymack View Post

THanks for the advice. Is YPAO that microphone thingy? My Yamaha does not have that, if so.

which model Yamaha receiver are you using?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rymack View Post

I had my old centre set at +5 db. If I were to go as high as +7 db, is that out of the ordinary? Just not sure what a good happy medium should be.

should'nt be a problem to go 2dB higher if that makes a satisfying audible difference for you.
post #2336 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Hi Jack - without putting words in SMS's mouth - I took it this way. The Veritas bass - at least the 2.4i's, is not there at all compared to the RC's, it is thin and weak in comparison. However, that's not to say there was no bass, or didn't sound good - they sounded great. To be honest, I didn't want to spend a lot of time listening to them, or like SMS I may have walked out with them if they offered me some kind of deal. For me, and the price I paid, I think the RC line is fantastic. I don't regret buying them, and even my wife commented the other day on how much better everything sounds. And she's like all wives (or most) - she doesn't say much about my stuff, other than I'm spending too much money, so for her to comment on them is saying a lot

Kpt_Krunch:

What I was trying to say was that the Veritas' bass was lean, tight, and crisp. I would compare its bass to the 70 like this:

-the 70's sound like they are going to lower frequencies, but they don't sound as clear, clean or controlled, even with the port plugs in, and without the port plugs they were worse.

Its alot like the differences you hear in subwoofers - the Veritas are like a musical sub that won't rattle the pictures on the wall during a movie explosion and the RC 70's are like a HT sub. My preference is for the musical sub, which is why I've only got an 8" Mirage.
post #2337 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

which model Yamaha receiver are you using?

should'nt be a problem to go 2dB higher if that makes a satisfying audible difference for you.


I have an HTR-5560. It was a graduation gift from my mom two years ago, and was my first 5.1 receiver (I had previously only been running a Pioneer with Dolby Pro-Logic). I love my Yamaha, and don't think I would buy anything other than Yamaha when it comes time to upgrade again. Thanks for your help!
post #2338 of 51590
My take on Veritas vs RC70 talk.

I've heard the whole line of Veritas and I'll say it's one of the few speakers that completely made me forget that there was a speaker there. It was pretty much transparent. Everything sounded "there". I was not distracted by the speaker imposing its own view of things. The bass was just right. I've heard the RC70 briefly and I never forgot about it, it just sounded more like a speaker. That's the bottom line, does the speaker bring you closer to the music? If yes, then that is the speaker for you.

Now, for $1200 CAD that the RC70 was selling for new, it would be a hard stretch to take any of the Veritas speaker unless you could get your hands on a factory second at half price (don't know if they are still doing that).

I consider the Veritas a true audiophile speaker, that is, its qualities of sound can be compared to the best of the best at any price. It would be an interesting shopping experience if I had the budget for Veritas, as there are dozens of other worthwhile competitors in that price range (my brand loyalty used to be with Energy until Klipsch got involved). I'd also check out Monitor Audio Gold, B&W 8xx, Paradigm Signature, Revel, Dynaudio, Totem, 3A Reference, etc....all speakers that I thought sounded good at one time or another.
post #2339 of 51590
I've not heard the RC70s, however I own the Veritas 2.4i and I would characterize the bass as detailed, articulate, tight, and neutral. Perhaps a bit too neutral in fact. As I'm a bit of a basshead, I got the SVS-SB12+ since I heard it was tight and great for music. While it definitely adds some oomph, the "quality" of the bass is not to the level of the Veritas'.
post #2340 of 51590
I'm glad to be a brand new Energy owner. The sound compared to the Polk Audio i returned last week feels more relaxed. I couldn't stand the highs on the Polk's, they where way to bright.

So i got my self A pair of RC-30's for my fronts, a pair of RC-10's for the back, an RC-LCR for my center and a Velodyne dps 12 for my sub. All connected to my brand new Yamaha HTR-6190. Got it all for a price of 3K$ with taxes (cables included).

I'm really happy of the sound I'm getting, couldn't go back to that cheap Logitech ever again.
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