Energy Owners Thread - Page 11

yeah............scenario #1: you could have C-200 for fronts, C-R100 for side's, C-50 for rears, S8.3 sub- very decent-sounding speaker system, small size, for very low price.

scenario #2: you could have C-300's (towers) for fronts, C-C100 center, C-R100's for side's, C-50's for rears, S8.3 sub- very good-sounding speaker system, more full-range fronts (better for audio) , for an aditional $200.00.

scenario #3: you could have C-200's for fronts, C-C100 center, C-R100's for side's, C-50's for rears, small Velodyne sub- very good-sounding speaker system, small size, for additional $200.00 or $300.

scenario #4: you could have RC-10's for fronts, RC-LCR center, RC-R's for side's, RC-10's (or RC-Mini's) for rears, S8.3 sub- excellent-sounding speaker system, small size, for additional $500.00 or so. Much nicer speakers. A step up.

scenario #5: you could have RC-30's for fronts, RC-LCR center, RC-R's for side's, RC-10's (or RC-Mini's) for rears, S8.3 sub- excellent-sounding speaker system, with more explosive full-range tower fronts (better for audio), for additional $700.00 or so. Much nicer speakers. A step up.

etc.,...the Velodyne small subs are very nice! (little more money)

I would use RC-R's for sides, RC10's for rears, RC-10's,30's,50's for fronts, RC-LCR center.

I'm currently setting-up a 5.1 system with RC-30 fronts, RC-LCR center, RC-Mini rears (yes!), S8.3 sub.

Daniel,

Can you share the retail prices? I was mainly interested in the S8.3 Sub and the C-C100 Center.

Thanks.

Swestbom,

The room is about 15x20, my budget is around 2200 for speakers.

This is how I was roughly breaking it out.

Sub 350
Center 250
in-wall Fronts 250
6 Pairs of in-ceiling 1250 (Surrounds and Distributed audio to 4 rooms)

I'm definetly not an audiophile. Just want something that's going to sound good and be reasonably priced. I'm looking at equipment that's a little better than what you can get at BB / CC but nothing too crazy. I'm upgrading from my current 2.0 system of a 13 yr old Kenwood Reciever and Cerwin Vega VS-100 speakers.

I've already switched out the Kenwood and replaced it with the Denon 2106. The sound difference is incredible to me. If I could find a 2807 or a 3806 pretty cheap, I'd probably pick it up to use for a basement system when I get it finished.

Thanks for your help.

WestCoast,

Thanks for the recomendations. I need to go talk to the dealer and see if I can see some of the smaller speakers you suggested for surrounds. They need to be fairly small. The spec sheet said they were something like 9 x 6 x 8. I may be able to pull those off. I also saw some RC-mini's when I was on the Energy site. They were 7 1/2 X 5 x 7. That sounds even better. Have you heard either of those speakers?

Thanks

I'm currently setting-up a 5.1 system with RC-30 fronts, RC-LCR center, RC-Mini rears (yes!), S8.3 sub.

yeah, I got to see the RC-Mini's at CES back in January, they are very cool! Although have not been able to here them in a decent environment. But the dealers are only now starting to get shipments of these speakers.

As I mentioned, the RC-Series is definitley a step up from the C-Series. However, for the price, the C-Series will provide you with very nice Home Theater surround and audio capability [for the price]. You will not be dissapointed.

The C-50's a very nice sounding speakers in a very small package.

Alas I didn't price everything - just the stuff I was specifically interested in. I also only got Canadian prices, however the S8.3 is $400 CDN and I believe $350 US.

Well, here's a floorplan of the room: http://www.sunstorm.com/stuff/basement.gif

It's in the basement, so I have to deal with a super-annoying post in the middle, dropdowns, a big fireplace, and so forth. You can also see that the left side channel is far away from the main seating area... and how this is a prime example of needing center rear!

Audioexcellenceinc.com has S8.3 for $229.00

Yes, but we were talking list price. :-)

Oops, sorry

very interesting room.

yeah.........my configuration is sort of "a-symmetrical" as well. My left front speaker is further out than my right front (with respect to my couch seating location). However, when I run the auto-config (YPAO on Yamaha) it calibrates the distance and compensates in speaker level(s) accordingly. It still sounds very good.

While that post may be a little annoying it may [not] be much of an acoustic problem (I think). Guess you'll never know until you try.

Your rear surround locations look okay. I assume they are just below the drop-down level? They would have to be for optimal effect.

Otherwise, I think your set-up will work okay. Although a rear center could'nt hurt. You could use a bi-pole (C-R100 or RC-R depending on which Energy series you choose) mounted on a speaker stand.

Yes - last year I upgraded to a Marantz SR9600 and the full auto-config worked wonders on my speakers (what you see in the diagram is my current speaker layout I've been using for years). But not quite enough...



Yes, currently they're mounted to the wall just below the dropdowns (above head height but lower than the ceiling).

oh yes..............I guess you could also mount a rear center speaker from your ceiling, angling downward, which would be cleaner than using a stand (behind the couch). Possibly a foot (or so) behind your rear surrounds.

Hi, newbie here, but I have been reading the forum for a while. Prior to reading, I purchased one of the new HTIB with a powered sub. Not bad sound, but nothing great and sometimes when the source was changed got a bad crackle. Was told by customer service that there were electronics problems, so back it went. Then came out with a rear wireless HTIB thinking that it would be convenient not to run the wires. Not a good choice! System sound was not great and the wireless sound was inconsistent. Back it went. So then, I went began reading what you all had to say and went to four different audio specialist shops. I listened to several different brands and found one authorized dealer selling his demo products that sounded great. I purchased 2 demo C-5's for mains, and started to get a new in box C-C1, but after reading about the C-C3, called and changed to the C-C3 demo (more money but everyone says it is worth it.) I am also purchasing a demo HK AVR-520 with full factory warranty for about a third of original list. I have ordered a new Energy 10 inch sub on clearance and will use some Energy XL-16's for rears. Even buying everything on clearance this is all costing me a lot more than an HTIB but hopefully will provide some awesome sound, be upgradeable and be repairable if anything breaks. I have heard the C-5's and the C-C3 and they sound great. The sub, C-5's, C-C3 and HK are all going to have full warranty. Any comments? Are these good choices? Using the HK, does anyone have recommendations for the best way to hook up the sub.
Thanks in advance.

HK is very configurable. you just use the sub cable which is bascially a video cable with RCA plugs on each end. And then you can adjust your crossover for each set of speakers, fronts, center and surrounds. I think your C-5 goes down to 36hz, XL16 down to 56hz and CC-3 somewhere around there.

Start off with the fronts at 60hz, center at 80hz and rears at 80hz. Play with them in 20hz increments + or - and see what works best.

If you never plan to go more than 5.1, 520 is a pretty good choice. its about 4 HK generations back though. It has Dolby PL2 and Logic 7 along with Dolby Digital and DTS. You must be getting it for $300 or so? If its $400 I'd look at the refurbed HK 435 instead.

Does anyone know what the difference between these two models is and how significant it is? I'm going to be auditioning and the dealer I found has the 2.4's, not the 2.4i's

I appreciate the crossover and subwoofer info. I am getting a fair buy on the 520, well under your higher mentioned price. I know that this is an older model, but I am getting it from a local dealer who sets up repairs and he is providing a full warranty, as well as a factory warranty so I figured this would be less complicated and would meet my needs. I think that with the size of my room the 5.1 will provide a really good sound. I auditioned each of the purchase pieces also and they were excellent. Thanks again!

The i models are the improved drivers. The regular models in the veritas i series had a problem with the drivers freezing up. It was due to a design with glue. The i series got rid of this.

I'd avoid the earlier veritas and get the i series.

I am not planning to buy the floor model the dealer has - just listen to them. Does anyone know if there are differences that would affect the sound of the speakers significantly?

It is a problem and the engineers who did it should be shot for being terminally optimistic and stupid, but: I bought the previous model from an authorized dealer at a steep discount. They sound identical to the i series to me and to the store owner (and anyone else). The i series woofers theoretically have a slight increase in woofer excursion and the cone material has a slightly different pattern from the back side (we are talking microns here). The crossover components are also slightly different (my guess is it had more to do with manufacturing costs than a functional design change), because the crossover behavior is the same.

The magnets on the older series are held strictly by glue and the glue is under tension because of the bolt through from the back of the speaker that is attached to the magnet and basically pulls it away from the driver's basket, that is why the glue breaks (those glues were never intended to be under tension). Normally constructed woofers have glued on magnets as well, but you cannot torque the magnet off the speaker driver basket by tightening the bolts on the back of the speaker cabinet like you can on the Energy Veritas line.

Over time changes in temperature and humidity and the expansion and contraction of the assembly can cause the same thing to happen without you having to take a wrench to the bolts on the back of the cabinet and torque the hell out of them.

On one of my 2.3 speakers the glue broke and the drivers siezed. If this happens just call Energy, they will give you a return authorization for a repair. Send the woofers to them (really easy to remove, takes a couple minutes with an adjustable wrench) and they will replace them with speaker drivers where the magnet is bolted on to the driver basket (just like the i series). Energy swears up and down that the replacements are not i series woofers but they look identical to them in every way (marketing rules!).

If you buy from an authorized store as new you get a five year warranty so the only risk is not having the use of the speakers for a week or two while Energy ships you the replacements after receiving the busted ones.

Hey Everyone,

For a 7.1 System, price not being a problem, I am thinking about getting either the Polk LSi 7.1 or the Energy RC 7.1 set-up.

For the Polk System I would be doing:

(2) Polk LSi 25
(2) Polk LSi 9
(2) Polk LSi FX
(1) Polk LSi C
(1) Velodyne SPL-1200R Sub
(1) Sunfire Cinema Grand Seven TGA-7200 Amp
(1) Denon 2807 (Preamp)

Or if I do the Energy RC System I would be doing:

(2) RC-70
(2) RC-10
(2) RC-R (Could turn into 4 instead of RC-10s)
(1) RC-LCR
(1) Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXVi Receiver


Which one do I go with for a Home Theater/Rec Room? Any suggestions? Please help! Thanks

I'm hoping to get a 7.1 Energy system for my home theater soon and it would look very much like your proposed RC system.

Originally I was going to do 4 RC-10s for the back, or maybe 2 RC-Rs and 2 RC-10s, but after checking speaker and Energy's Macro Mount dimensions I'm now going with 4 RC-Rs since they fit available space "the least poorly".

These will be driven through a Marantz SR-9600.

I note that you don't mention a subwoofer for the Energy system. Choice or omission?

Energy system of course!

RC-70's are very nice (as mains especially). I would use the exact configuration you have.

Also, I would use the Sunfire Cinema Grand Seven TGA-7200 Amp with this set-up as well (if you can), using Pioneer or Denon as pre-pro, it would drive the RC-70's more efficiently. Then you can get a dedicated pre-pro in the future.

Also, Velodyne SPL-1200R , or Energy S12.3 Sub will work great.

Oops, the Energy Sub would be the RC-SUB10 or 12. Or do you think the Velodyne SPL-1200R would be a better fit? Are Energy's Subs any good for the 70/30 Movies/Music?


Also, Do you think the LSi Systems are that bad compared to the RC?

Finally, if I go with the RC system, the new Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXVi Receiver will be the one I go with, that should give plenty of power to those RC Speakers shouldnt it?

In short, maybe, those receivers, like most new middle priced ones now, don't come even close to their rated power for all channels driven, just two channels at a time. Look at the power the thing draws versus the spec on the receiver. The receiver probably draws up to 550 watts just like the 74. The rated power is for any two channels driven if it is like the 74 that preceded it (probably identical amp/power supply/ capacitors).

I seem to recall that Pioneer claims 80% efficiency in the amp section (that is really high but doable now) but if you take out the overhead for the electronics other than the amp section it is obvious that it will run out of juice long before it hits the numbers stated on the spec sheet.

Keep your cross over at 80 Hz, don't expect really high output and you will probably be fine though. Besides, it has pre-outs for all channels so you can always buy dedicated power amps for some of the channels from a company like Outlaw Audio for not too much money (and use them for whatever replaces the Pioneer in the years ahead).

If the subwoofers are as good as the normal Energy ones they should do a great job, especially if you primarily listen to music. You would have to get Velodyne's DD or HGS series to get a more accurate one than the Energy subwoofers and the price is considerably higher for a given output and extension (lower distortion though).

Everything I've seen, and read, on the [new] RC-series subs is very good, look very nice! However, not sure if they're are available yet or what? Try contacting (e-mail) Energy (from web-site), I think it would be worth it. I've been using an S8.3 sub, has worked great for movies, etc.,...

You can't go wrong with a Velodyne sub either.


I have'nt had any experience with LSi's personally, however, they do seem to be popular. Could'nt provide any constructive comparison.
I just really prefer the unique design quality of Energy RC-series.


Looks like it will be a very nice receiver! From what I can decipher it should yield like 140W X 7. Should be decent enough power for the RC-70's. Although I would prefer the Sunfire amp, along with the Pioneer (as pre-pro), it would drive the RC-70's much better. Would be a "killer" system.

RC-Sub 10 is available in the US, but not the 12 (don't know about the 8).

More like 60 watts per channel all channels driven into 8 ohms at 1 khz (not even the full spectrum), drop it down below 50 watts for 20 to 20 khz. These power ratings are only what can be delivered to a couple channels at a time into 8 ohms for a few seconds at a time, although it can deliver these numbers into a few channels down to 4 ohms as well.

The power numbers bear no comparison to a typical power amplifier (or the Sunfire which has no transformer and is relatively noisy as hell because of it) which is all channels driven into 8 ohms 20 to 20k and usually double that into 4 ohms. Sunfires are about efficiency over accuracy, they are quiet enough but no where near as quiet as a traditional amp using transformers.

Receivers will typically steer power to the channels that need it but lose on channel isolation and separation to do it. Seperates usually cannot steer power where needed, each channel has it own windings on the power supply. This is done to achieve lower noise, channel isolation (one channel cannot suck power away from the others) and channel separation (no signal leakage across the channels).

Not that the kind of power separates deliver is really necessary for most situations, it is more of a marketing issue than a practical one. The moral is not all numbers are comparable. On receivers especially don't trust the power numbers without really looking at the fine print.

Here are a list of specs I found (fairly impressive if you ask me):

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXSi

140 Watts x 7 Direct Energy Amplification (20Hz - 20kHz, 8 ohms, .09% THD - FTC)
Stream Direct Mode
Air Studios Sound Tuning
Rigid Trans Stabilizer Construction

A/V PROCESSING
Audio:

New Sharc-EX + 48-bit Freescale DSP
Advanced MCACC with 9 Band EQ & Phase Control
Standing Wave & X-Curve Control
Sound Retriever for Portable and XM Radio
192 kHz / 24-Bit Audio Digital to Analog Conversion
THX Select 2 Processing & Certification
Dolby Digital® EX, DTS-ES, DTS 96/24, & WMA-9 Decoders
Neural Surround for XM-HD Radio
Advanced Concert and Cinema Surround (12 Modes)
Digital Noise Reduction

Video:

Digital Video Conversion Up to HDMI
HD Video Scaling to 1080i or 720p
Analog Video Parameter Processing

CONNECTIVITY

4 HDMI Inputs / 1 HDMI Output - 1080p / DVD-A Compatible
iPod® Audio, Photo, and Video Connection - Cable Included
XM®-Ready with On-Screen Display
Dual i.LINK Digital Audio Interface with Jitter-Free PQLS
3 Component Video Inputs / 1 Component Video Output
4 S-Video Inputs / 2 S-Video Outputs
7 Digital Inputs / 2 Digital Outputs (optical)
2 Composite Video Outputs
Phono Input
USB Input for PC Audio

CUSTOM FEATURES

On-Screen Display
3 Zone Multi-Room & Source (Analog A/V Out for Zone 2 /
Digital Audio Out for Zone 3)
RS232C Interface
Dual 12 Volt Triggers with 2nd / 3rd Zone Assignment for Each Function
Dual I/R Inputs
Assignable Surround-Back Speaker for Multi-Room and Bi-Amp
Main Room / Multi-Room Remote Control for Zone 2 and Zone 3
LCD Preset / Learning Remote with Preset
Multi-Operation
Secondary Main Room Remote with iPod and XM Control and Audio Sgnals, Including: DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, Dolby Digital®, DTS® Digital Surround, and More.
Dual i.LINK Outputs - Single Wire Connection Providing Jitter-Free Multi-Channel High Resolution Audio, Including: DVD-Audio, SACD, Dolby Digital®, DTS® Digital Surround, and More.

PRODUCT DIMENSIONS

W x H X D: 16.54 x 7.36 x 18.35
Weight: 35.3 lbs.

CARTON DIMENSIONS

W x H X D: 21.59 x 12.37 x 20.45
Weight: 42.9 lbs.

UPC

12562820460
CONNECTION DESCRIPTIONS

4 HDMI Inputs/1 HDMI Output for HDTV/5.1/DVD Audio and Video/
Digital Video Conversion to HDMI
2 i.LINK Advanced Resolution Digital Audio Inputs for DVD-Audio,
SACD, 5.1 and Stereo Audio Signals
SR+ Plasma Control/Custom IR/Multi-Room A/V Output/
Multi-Room Digital Out/12-Volt Trigger
6 Composite A/V and 4 S-Video Inputs for Cable TV/Satellite/VCR/
DVD-Player/DVD-Recorder/Game Console
XM® Connect-and-Play Antenna Receiver/Audio/
On-Screen Menus
3 Component Video Inputs for HD Video Sources - Cable/ Set-Top
Box/Game Console/Digital Video Conversion
7 Assignable Digital Inputs for DVD Player/Recorder/Satellite/
Cable/Game Console 5.1 Audio; 2 Assignable Digital Outputs with
Multi-Room Option
IR Control/RS-232c for Advanced MCACC Room Calibration and
Custom Control Systems/USB Input** for PC Audio
Ready for iPod Audio, Photo, and Video/On-Screen Menus/Charger
Assignable Surround Back Speaker Output for Zone 2,
Bi-Amp, Multi-Room/Mulit-Source Options
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously a response to what Yamaha and Denon has done on their current models. This VSX-84TXSi has got it all! I like that it has assignable amps (of surround back channels) for both zone-1 & zone-2, provides capability to bi-amp front mains (which is what I would do for the RC-70's).

You figure with a 140W X 7 rating it's probably good for at least say 110W to 120W per/channel, all channels driven (if not more)? I think you'll be happy using this receiver with the Energy RC-Series system.

Later, you can add separate amp, using VSX-84TXSi as pre-pro, which could yield a step up in sound quality (and efficiency).