Energy Owners Thread - Page 126

Thanks Steve. I ordered 2 pairs to get 3 identical across the front. Too bad the cherry LCR was not on sale.

I really wondered about that as I am pretty sure everything I demo'd in store would have been Blue Ray. I won't own a Blue Ray until the players comedown more in price, so I'll have to wait and see.



No problem. Glad you got to take advantage. It is a stellar price. I am hopping they have a similar clearance for the Cherry LCR because its the only way I'll be able to justify buying one in the near future. Let us know how you find your new setup.

FYI RC-30's on Audiogone....rosenut

And I've got some RC-30's in Cherry's with original boxes I don't need (S.F. Bay area). Not quite mint, thanks to a small scratch on the rear corner from the boy PM if interested for pics.

I have a C-C100 I am looking to sell if you are interested, pm me. It's black finish no scratches and has the rubber feet on the bottom.

Me too - bought a Toshiba HD A-30 player brand new for around $100, and been buying new sealed HD-DVD's brand new for about half the price (and in terms of sets - like the Matrix and Mission Impossible about 80% less) than a regular DVD. Too bad the format is dead, but prices are cheap cheap cheap on those. That will hold me until Blue Ray catches up to HD in both technology and price (well, to reg. dvd for price I guess).

To RC-30,50,70 owners...I need a suggestion for a 2 channel amplifier for music and HT use. I want to ease the load on my Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver. budget is up to $1000. Thanks..

Although I am biased, check out Emotiva. http://www.emotiva.com/home.html You may want to check out the XPA3, so you can drive your center channel as well.....200 watts X3, if driving 2 channels 250 watts., 8 ohm, something like 300 at 4 ohm if memory serves me right......very..nice ..gear....

Hey guys, I'm wondering if any of you have experienced this possible issue. I have the older Veritas 2.3 (non-i's) and sort of recently started hearing some sort of "scratchiness" when listening to music, particularly mainly vocals. I have a bad feeling that the midrange/tweeter module or the crossover may be going bad. I do not notice this "scratchiness" when running through the same music and source through the veritas 2.1 I had switched to, just to make sure I wasn't going crazy. Has anybody who have these speakers experienced this? Thanks in advance!

Unfortunately, yes :-(
Scratchy is exactly how I described what happened to my 2.3 (non i also).

See
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1028174

This happened nearly 3 months ago. My left 2.3 speaker is still not repaired. The repairman shipped my repaired mid/tweeter module from Canada two weeks ago. But it hasn't gotten to California yet :-( I have a bad feeling that it's lost, and I wouldn'tt even know where to go for a new one.

I am very upset about Energy and their new owners, Klipsch, for no longer providing parts for the Veritas. I know one brand of speakers I will never buy again (Energy), and another that I will never own (Klipsch).

Like Bobcel, I also just added an Emotiva amp to my Yamaha (RX-V3800). Speakers are RC-70's.
I went with the XPA-2. Terrific amp.

When my mid (woofer) was ordered, from API in Canada, it took quite a while to arrive as well, at least 3 weeks as I recall. Don't give up hope!

Ah, I wish I would have had the patience to wade through all of the posts in this thread! Thanks, Madbrain. I read your post on this, and I think I'm going to start looking for a new set of speakers for my fronts. I currently have the 2.1's in the front to go with the 2.0c, but I need to get floorstanders as I have a baby who is getting into the toddler stage and don't want him to tip the stands over. I emailed Energy support about pricing, but I'm not as hopeful now about a positive response.

Just browsing around and the NHT Classic Fours caught my eye. Don't feel like pouring any more $$$ into this at the moment.

Well, I ordered a woofer for the freeze issue a while ago, before the Klipsch buyout, and they were pretty good/quick about it, but after what Madbrain has been through, I'm not so sure any more. I ordered mine through their (then) service center somewhere back east (can't remember now).

I ordered my woofer before the buyout as well....Here is the info from the Audio Shop I ordered my driver through. API sent it directly to them and I picked it up, although they would have shipped it to me from their shop if I wanted. This is in So Cal.
Scan Audio
8108 Orion Ave, Unit 5
Van Nuys,CA 91406
818-786-4240

Thanks for the info, Bobcel. I gave these guys a quick call and he quoted me $280 per module. Since it seems both of mine are bad, I think I may just have to use this money to go towards a new set of speakers. I saw that audioadvisor had those NHT 4's that caught my eye for $424/ea on clearance. Of course I'd have to get a matching center too. Hmm......

I have not listened to those NHT towers before, but have heard the monitors, some of the earlier models... Beautiful finish and very smooth and dynamic speakers, I liked them alot. Almost bought some at one point, but they do require some good components and power to sound their best from what I remember, did not have the cash flow at the time....

One more question... (thanks Batpig for the great information and super fast replies!)

Assuming the following front configuration: 2 x C-2, and a XL-C100 center (not C-C100), how will this compare sound-quality wise to some of Energy's newer product lines. In particular, I'm thinking of Take Classic, Take (FPSs) and Encore series.

Hi to all,

I am a long time Energy loudspeaker owner, as I bought my Energy Pro22s back in 1985.

Time was up for a new pair (no, my Pro22s are still stellar and up and running, but I now use them in my homecinema in the basement matched with a very powerfull Marantz Receiver, Toshiba 44 inches DLP HDTV, Toshiba Progressive scan DVD and PSB centre speaker and PSB Alpha B back speakers) Some would say it's not ok to match PSB + Energy, but after a long journey to find a centre speaker that matches the tonality of the Pro22s, I found that the top of line PSB centre speaker is a better match than any of the Energy Center speakers on the market back in 2004).

Ok back to my main topic: I just bought a pair of Rosewood RC-30 for the living room, on a sound system and room dedicated to music (not homecinema). However the kid is growing up and we need to install a flat screen lcd or plasma TV in the living room (when the kid listens to his shows or DVDs in the basement on the homecinema). Therefore, I want to buy at least a centre speaker that matches the RC-30 for the living room. Again, this room is mainly for music, and will be used occasionnally for HD TV viewing for the grown-ups.
Therefore I don't want to spend too much money on a second homecinema, just a flat 37 to 42 inches TV with cable HD decoder and a centre speaker to get more realism when listening to TV. No back speakers, no dvd or blu-ray for now.

The living room sound system is simply composed of a small Marantz receiver (DD 5.1), a Sony caroussel 5 CD changer, a venerable Philips CD-960 CD player and the new Energy RC-30s. I also have a Pioneer universal player for occasional SACDs

I want therefore to buy a not too expensive Centre speaker to match the RC-30s. I was thinking of the RC-mini Centre, which can be had for 300$ at Futureshop. Is this a good or fair match ? Do I have to match is exclusively with the RC series Centre Speaker (800$) ? Again, no homecinema here, just plain HD TV at moderate sound levels.

What are your thoughts about this possible match ?

I'm sorry to say that this above comment is really stupid, pardon me. Speakers don't evolve that much to justify changing models every 5 years.
Proof: My Energy Pro22s are 23 years old, bought in 1985, and I challenge anybody to listen to them and tell me that they are obsolete. Good speakers, if kept in good condition, remain good speakers. I blew a tweeter a couple of years back and the company (API/Energy) had no more original tweeters for the Pro22s but they charged me 150$ to remanufacture from scratch the default tweeter and it's now working like new!

I bought RS-30 for the living room a few weeks back and they sound great. Better than the Pro 22s ? not sure, different yes, but to be honnest I would have to test them on a A-B comparison in the same room using the same electronics and music software, and to be honnest I have other things more important to do than do that.

My only point is that both the Pro 22s and the Rc-30 sound great, and the 23years of manufacturing /design has not improved that much the sound. RC-30 are indeed more efficient and require at least 75% less power to drive them to the same db level (efficiency of 86db/1watt/1M for the Energy Pro22s versus efficiency of 92db/1watt/1M for the Energy RC-30... Rule of thumb: each 3db efficiency positive difference requires 50% less power to drive them to the same sound pressure in db***) But better efficiency doesn't always mean better sound, in many cases the opposite is true if you can provide enough power by your amp...) Both have their sound personnality (the RC-30 has maybe a bit more bass but both the Pro22s and Rc-30 are very bass sensitive when placed closer to a wall, they each require to be placed further from the wall or else use the provided port blockers) but both are stunning achievements of canadian spaeker design/manufacturing. So next time you want to blow out a speaker in order to get the newer model, post me because there is a chance that the older model is the best sounding of the two!
Just my 2 cents

***by the way some prefer the RC-70 over the RC-30 or 50 because of the more ample sound. However, the Rc-70 is a bit more efficient and indeed provide "more sound" at the same volume/watt setting. This could falsify a true A-B comparison between the two speakers if you don't adjust the volume properly for true A-B comparison. The RC-70 is 3db more sensitive than the Rc-30, thus requiring 50% less wattage power to achieve the same sound pressure. I'm not saying that the Rc-30 is better than the RC-70, i'm just saying that part of the difference between the two is simply the efficiency rate.

I don't think anybody is saying that "newer = better" for speakers... sometimes it's just fun to buy something new!

You are definitely correct in that it's difficult to make speaker comparisons (or comparisons of any audio component for that matter!) if you don't level-match to account for efficiency differences.

Well, I owned the C-2's (and passed them to friend so still hear them regularly), used to own XL's, and have bought/sold Take 2's and Encores, so hopefully I can provide some insight.

The thing to realize is that the Takes and Encores are "compromise" speakers, they are intended to maximize sound quality given space constraints. Honestly, everything I've heard from Energy sounds great -- they are always clean and neutral with detailed highs. But there is no way that a tiny "mini" or "flat panel" speaker can hang with a full-sized bookshelf like the C-2 when it comes to overall audio quality.

If you mate them with a quality subwoofer and you mostly will be using them for TV/HT use (not music), any of the little speakers can sound great and you wouldn't miss all that much. But they certainly won't sound BETTER than the C-2's + XL-C100, as little speakers + sub will always lack the midrange fullness of a large speaker cabinet due to the physical constraints of the design. And you will have to work harder to "blend" your sub with the sats since there is a much larger gap in the midrange and the sub will have to reach higher, making it more localizable.

And if you like to listen to two-channel music, forgetaboutit. The C-2's are great speakers, full-bodied with a nice midrange. There is no way that Takes or Encores + sub will sound as good as the C-2's + sub with music.

So, if you aren't a critical music listener and you'd like to "downsize" to something newer and save some space and/or make your wife happy that you got rid of those big black boxes, then switching to the Takes or Encores will still leave you with a very nice HT setup. It will still have that clean, neutral "Energy" sound. You will lose a little in the midrange (dialogue) and in music reproduction, but it will still sound good.

But if you want to IMPROVE the sound in an absolute sense, it won't happen. If you have the space for the C-2's and a big center channel, you will not get better sound by switching to smaller speakers. If you're happy with your C-2's, and want to upgrade your HT experience, I would suggest keeping an eye on ebay and/or audiogon for a used AC-300 which will be a much better center speaker and match your C-2's perfectly.

Otherwise, if you're looking for a step up you have to go to the new RC series... and even then, it's not so much "better" as "different". The RC's are smoother speakers, but you may prefer the "brighter" and more forward treble of the C-2's.

One of these days I'll lug my RC-10's over to my buddy's place and do an A/B with the old C-2's...

I use the RC-mini center with my RC-10's, and several posters on this thread use the RC-mini with RC-30's. It is a perfect "voice" match, in the sense that it uses identical drivers/tweeters, and if you are only going to be listening at moderate levels and not looking for "reference quality" the RC-mini will do just fine. You should be able to get a better price at future shop if you wait for a sale.

This is not to say that the RC-LCR isn't better, of course it is, but the RC-mini does a real nice job. You can always return it if it doesn't do the trick!

The RC-mini definitely lacks a bit of "fullness" in the upper-bass/low-mid range compared to the full size RC, it is a physically smaller speaker cabinet so that's unavoidable.... but I think it will function great in a setup like you describe where you don't need top-of-the-line performance. It will help if you have independent tone controls by channel. According to the autoEQ on my Denon receiver, the RC-mini needs a slight bass boost under 200Hz to make it match the full-size RC's. If you can bump up the bass on just the center channel I think it will help them "blend" more effectively by giving a little more of that fullness to the sound.

A couple of notes: do you have a sub in your system? do you run the RC-30's as small or large? you will have to cross over the RC-mini at 100Hz or above, so if your receiver doesn't have independent crossovers by channel you may have to compromise one way or another. If there isn't a sub this won't be an issue since the RC-30's will be full-range and the RC-mini will hand off at 100Hz or wherever, but if you have a global crossover and want to run the RC-30's as "small" you will be stuck with 100Hz on all three. Not a huge deal, but a slight waste of the RC-30's potential.

Pete - RC-Mini should do you just fine. Just a note on your RC-70 vs. RC-30 though - I have listened to both in the same room on the same system. The RC-70 is a true 3-way design, the RC-30 is not. The RC-70 does have much better imaging, depth (as in soundstage) and of course goes lower in terms of frequency. It is a better speaker, though to say it's worth more than 'double' then that of a RC-30 in terms of sound quality 'may' be a stretch for most, but for some I'm sure they'd find it as such.

You're right about the efficiency, and how a 'louder' or 'more sensitive' speaker will sound 'better' to most people, but there's a lot more to it than just 'sensitivity' on this one

THanks BATPIG for the advice. No I don't use a sub in my living room setting, so the problem you describe will not be an issue for me. I will set my Rc-30s as large and the only other speaker will be the center speaker.
I will give the Rc-mini center a try as soon as Futureshop shows a "sale" on it, which shouldn't take time given their marketing usage. I bought the Rc-30 50% off at 699$ last month. So I guess the 299$ tag for the rc-mini should be reduced in the next weeks, at least to 250$ or 199$ if i'm in luck...
The choice of the Rc-mini center versus the RC-LR Center (or whatever it is called) is not only a question of $, but also a question of discretion in a living room and a compromise for my spouse. The Rc-Mini is available in rosewood and will blend ingto the decor, on the chimney below the future LCD or plasma TV which will hang over the chimney mantle. I know this is not the best setup for long periods of TV viewing, but it is a living room for occasional TV viewing when we don't feel going into the basement for full home cinema Tv experience...

I agree with what you say. The RC-70 is probably a better speaker, better designed 3-way and all, but not better because it is more efficient.

They have had it as low as $150 for the RC-mini centers.

I have the same exact scratchy sound as you discribe from both my center and my right RC-70. I have a yamaha 6190 and I do play them loud, but not to retarded levels. I bought a new center from Futureshop and it was fine.

I think there may be some quality control issues here. It's ridiculous that speakers that cost 2500 a pair can break so easy. Ive never had a speaker go on me before and now I have 2 that have already gone. I wonder if it's because they are now made in CHINA and not Canada. I love the sound, but Im guessing the build quality is not there anymore.

The black one is now $199.99 at FS.

I notice that the regular price of the RC-30 cherry was listed as $1,149.99 last week, and now it is $1,499.99. Strange.

I need the Rosewood one, and it's still 299$, so I will wait and look from time to time if FS does a sale on the rosewood RC-Mini Center... thanks anyway.