Energy Owners Thread - Page 1268

I couldn't justify spending even $400 for a pair of RC-70s as I have no need for another one. However I bought mine on boxing day, then got a $50 refund in January when they lowered the price to 475/ea. That got marked as a new buy date so I was able to argue for $150 more (and a free sub) on Feb. 3. Now even if it was easy getting a 2-for-1 on the RC-70, I would not even be able to argue that I'm entitled to $400 more in refund since I'm way past 30 days.

Wait a minute. On the receipt the date appears as 03-02-12. Considering the confusion in date formats between US, Europe and Canada, I would perhaps be able to pass that as March 2

I would also like to know if this deal can be had

You really did get a stellar deal on those 2.1e's -- I consider myself having got a pretty decent deal purchasing them for ~$90 (I believe it was); they might be my favorite series of the Energy speakers I own, at least based on current amplification / performance ratio. Then again, I got the 5.1e's for $125, so that might be why I'm so 'proud' of them.

Enjoy -- they're great speakers!

When I bought the first 2 RCRs on sale, it was actually 1 on sale, but they thought it was for 2. I did not educate them on that one. Think it was 250.00 for 1, but again I got 2. Then 2 were used for 150.00. But with the 2used, I bought a new pair, cleaned up the used, and returned them for the refund. I don't feel so bad doing this as they were sold to me by a FS employee.

So yeah, 400.00 for 4, no lie.


BTW: The RCRs were bought about 8 months ago.

BTW, after the fact, I did tell the manager at FS of buying 2 for the price of 1. AFAI concerned, it is part of doing business. The RC-70s have been going for about 1400.00 a piece, and they have been selling them way above cost. As when I got my 2 RC70s for 400.00, he told me he was still making a profit of 50.00. So the math, tells us the profit for 1 RC70 has been at leat a grand.

PF

pinkfreud55 if you ever want to get rid of even 2 RC-R's you let me know.

Yeah, when I heard these rumours, I called stat! denied...


I could!!

Has anyone ever used a pair of RC-LCRs for rear surrounds? Would there be any advantage vs a pair of the RC-10s? If they make good fronts I don't see why they wouldn't make good rears.

Would there be an advantage? Sure, the RC-LCR is a superior speaker. Are you really going to notice enough of a difference to justify, in essence, spending double over a pair of RC-10s? I doubt it.... especially using them for the rear surround duty. I would use the extra money needed for a pair RC-LCRs instead for some acoustic panels/and or Bass traps for your room instead... Much more "bang for your buck" there...

I'd agree with what deano said and would also add that for that price you'd be better off going with the RC-R or veritas surrounds than the LCR. IMO these are better than the LCR as a surround due to the fact that they are not rear ported so you can mount flush to the wall, bipole/dipole/monopole giving you really flexible surround options and will easily go down to 80hz which is all you really need out of surrounds. The LCR may have slightly more midrange clarity and go lower but I don't think either of these things are particularly important for surrounds and the LCR is likely only marginally better in these areas where the RCR or veritas surround advantages are very significant for surrounds. So if you already have the 10's I would just stick with them and look into room treatments or possibly a second sub to smooth out response but if you need surrounds and have the money the RCR or veritas surround would be a much better option for you than the LCR.

More curious questions; right now I only have my HT system set up as 5.1. Here goes the questions:

1. If I was to set it up for 7.1 will it make a huge difference, I don't know how much 7.1 material is out there. The WAF would be very low adding more speakers to the living room at least in this house.

2. What are the smaller front speakers used for? I understand you've got the center and the two towers but what is the second set of speakers doing?

3. the Veritas Surround Speakers, I will seriously consider buying these if they come up on sale anytime in the next year. So are these as good or better than the RC-R surrounds?

Thanks for your time all.

Wow, just noticed how much rambling I did. Here's the TL;DR version:
Based on my large open space and having the RC bundle, does anyone NOT feel comfortable with using a Denon 2112 to run it all?


Okay, so I've been dragging my feet on this...I hate decisions when there are so many choices. I also hate to bug you guys with this since in a lot of ways it just comes down to personal choice. But I'm really struggling with finalizing my decision. I've had the RC-bundle for a couple months now and love it. I'm powering with them with an Onkyo TX-SR503 and honestly the sound is great to me and the volume can get (much) louder than I'm comfortable with.

That said, I really want to upgrade the receiver. I'd like an AVR (especially for Audyssey, hdmi, and networking). And all the other goodies are a bonus too (e.g. I'd use Airplay all the time). I've done a lot of reading over in the receivers forum, but as far as making the decision: a. I like you guys more and b. it's specifically to do with the energy's, so I figure y'all have a little better perspective.

I was thinking about the Onkyo tx-nr809, but there's an awful lot of love in here for Denons. So I guess I'm down to these three:
1. Denon 2112ci ($450 - refurb) - feature-wise, etc, seems like a good fit based on batpig's Denon guide
2. Onkyo nr809 ($650 - refurb) - a lot of power and features packed into a nice price
3. Denon 4311ci ($1300'ish) - Wouldn't ever have to wonder if I should have "gone bigger/better" hehe

I had almost settled in on the 2112, but then saw RSXer's post and batpig's response (see below) back in May. So that got me to wondering if with my big ole open space, if I would be better off with more power for the RC-70s and friends. And so I started looking (again) at the 809 or 4311. But then I got to more thinking, and realized that I should probably be comparing the power output of the 2112 to my existing Onkyo, since I'm already happy with the sound, at which point I'd think the 2112 should be more than adequate powerwise.

Soooo...I think I'm good with the 2112, but just wanted to see if my logic is sound or if anyone has any opposing opinions.

As for budget and stuff like that. It's more a matter of principle than finances. I'd obviously rather spend $450 than $1300, but if there are significant practical benefits, I could justify more with myself.


From 05-29-11
RSXer: Is a denon 2112 sufficient to run front rc-70s?
batpig: almost certainly yes, the RC-70's are 8-ohm and pretty sensitive. How big is your room and how far away will you be sitting from the speakers?

A couple pictures of the new stuff (I've been slacking and still haven't wall-mounted the TV or done much in the way of room treatments):



My original thread (more pics and info): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post21377506

Great looking speakers!!! Out of all of the receivers you mentioned....and I heard all of them....I opted for the 809. It had the most features and power...plus can hadle a 4ohm load if need be down the road. It really is a tank. I would not go the refurb route though. I think J and R has it for $699 brand new shipped right now. That's a crazy good deal! The 2112 is a VERY nice receiver, but other than a few things here and there it's not a HUGE upgrade from what you have. Yes...it's an upgrade....but if you're going to upgrade then get a real upgrade if it's in your price range. The 809 is a huge upgrade and offers the most flexibility around in that price range.

First off, I think you should be able to get a new (not refurbished) 2112ci for $450 shipped from Electronics Expo if you call them and ask for that price. I'm certainly no expert with AVRs, but I think you'd find the most benefit by getting a receiver with MultEQ XT (or better) given your spacelike the 2112ci can provide. It seems like that receiver has all of the features you'd like and use and if your current receiver plays loud enough for you, I don't see any reason the 2112ci wouldn't be able to do the same. Of course the 4311 would be better, but only you can decide if it's worth spending more than twice as much as the 2112ci.

I'm not sure as I only have the RCR but I would take the general concensus of the two lines and apply it to the surrounds that the veritas are brighter and more revealing while the RC's are more laid back and less revealing. For surrounds and ambient effects I would think either would work well but I haven't compared them. It isn't as critical that surrounds match like it is with the front 3 so I personally wouldn't have a problem mixing lines in this case.

1. The most important thing is to have a *good* 5.1 layout. That is the "core" of any system. Speakers beyond the core 5.1 are "gravy" and can certainly increase the quality of the overall presentation, but I wouldn't call them essential. Each person has to travel that route on their own, balancing their own personal "audiophile tendencies", WAF, budget, room layout, etc. If you can't add more speakers, I wouldn't sweat it... but if you can manage it, I doubt you will be disappointed.

2. I don't understand this question -- are you referring to somebody's setup specifically? Or are you asking a general question about "height" speakers?

3. The Veritas surrounds are effectively the same as the RC-R's.

well, as above, this is really a personal choice of "how far do you go?" It's like buying a car, do you buy the practical option which does everything you need, do you spend a little more for another step up with even more goodies, or do you splurge on the fancy car because goddammit you can?

The 2112ci is the practical choice. It does everything you need and is quite affordable.

The 809 is the step-up option.... still has MultEQ XT like the 2112ci so sound should be very comparable, but it packs more power and features. Fancy video processor, THX, Audyssey DSX... although note that the xx09 Onkyos do NOT have Airplay AFAIK.

The 4311ci is the splurge for the luxury car. More than you need in any practical sense but it's the best. And considering your room I don't have much doubt that you would appreciate the difference between XT and XT32.

Can anyone comment on a comparison between the Energy Take 5 5.0 and Martin Logan MLT-1 5.1 systems, esp if you've had a chance to directly compare the two? Intent is for a computer 5.1 system; the Energy Take 5 is currently available for $150 and the Martin Logan is up for $250, but I have little time to choose between them.

haven't heard them both but honestly any decent "sub/sat" setup like that should be pretty similar in sound quality. I wouldn't expect there to be a major difference. Note that the Energy setup doesn't include a sub (5.0, not 5.1) so you would need to budget additional for that.

Thanks, as always, you guys rock!

I guess my only remaining question for the crowd: Should/could the additional power from the 809 (vs the 2112) make any sound quality difference at low/normal listening levels? (I'd assume that it would obviously let it get louder, but does having more power make it "cleaner" or anything at average volumes?)

I know it's otherwise up to me at this point, but just an FYI here's what I'm down to:

1. 2112 - best price, is most likely EVERYthing I could need, and is denon (so can make use of all batpig's and others' guides and such)
2. 809 - more features, more power (*tim allen grunt*)

I might just flip a coin. hehe. I already have an AirPort Express hooked up by the TV, so I can use my iPhone Remote either way.

As someone who recently went from 5.1 to 7.1 I will say there is a fairly noticable difference between the two in movies, especially blu-rays decoded in 7.1 DTS or HD master audio. Keep in mind even movies in 5.1 can be matrixed to 7.1 and even that sounds more immersive to me. Also keep in mind I have surround backs and the setting on my Pioneer VSX-921 to auto-surround so it dictates what will be stereo, 5.1 or 7.1. It usually does a very good job, leaving programs orginally recorded in 2 channel in 2 channel and most of the time makes 5.1 7.1 depending on what format the audio was recorded in. I think it's a lot easier to upmix 5.1 channels to 7.1 then it is 2.1 to 5.1 so I'm happy with stereo staying stereo. Now for games such as Splinter Cell, MW3, Halo and Resident Evil it makes a huge difference because the sounds are actually coming from behind you, and these are all on the xbox which only does 5.1. Now if I go furthur and put in Grand Turismo 5 or Killzone 3 on my PS3 which is 7.1, it's really awesome lol. This is just my experience and my room is setup in a rectangular long ways fashion which is good for 7.1 as opposed to a room that isn't deep enough which prob. wouldn't sound too good in comparison. Hope this helps!

RE 5.1 to 7.1

I have been 7.1 for quite awhile so I don't really notice it. Unless like last night watching Insideous something seem wrong and turns out I had changed some setting and was not upmixing to 7ch. What a difference. That movie has a lot of effects in the back and with 7 ch it felt like the creaks and clocks ticking were somewhere in the room with me not coming from the side speaker like it did with the 5.1. As far as whether a disc is encoded at 7 ch or you use PLII to upconvert from 5ch I don't think in general it makes a huge difference.

By the way, my ears have beheld the sweet and amazing sound of the Veritas 1.8 now They are definitely amazing... If I had the $1000 when I first found them I'd def had snagged them. But jasonmichalh definitely put them to better use and I'm glad he has them

Also, about my plugged speaker port comment a few days ago, some were confused. I was merely warning anyone
who was getting a set of speakers for the first time not to play their music too loud with the ports plugged. Although in essence the speakers can't be damaged by loud play, for those who don't know what clipping sounds like, or are used to speakers with high distortion, can push the speakers too far. Granted, the same can be done with ports NOT plugged, but those that want the rich bass but need ports plugged (like speakers against wall or in cubby) may push the speakers to higher dBs to make up for the bass lost with ports plugged, once again going back to what I was saying before.

Sorry for the run-on sentences, but does that make sense now?

I brought my Take 5.1 to the office when my RC-70 setup kicked it out of the house. I have just put it into service there as a 2.1 using a small desktop amp connected to my computer and I am digging it. Rich sounding; the small sub that the Takes came with is plenty for the small office and creates a nice bottom presence. I would have liked to hear the Martin Logans, but can report that the Take Classics do a nice job but absolutely I feel that they need the sub. Wouldn't be the same without.

I generally agree with the other replies. 7.1 is gravy, but you know, gravy can be good In my case, I think my receiver (Pio) duplicates the surround channels in 5.1 soundtracks to both surround sides and surround back. In a 5.1 setup, the surrounds are supposed to be somehere in diagonal behind you (say, 8 o'clock and 4 o'clock). In my room this is impossible, I had to put the surrounds on the sides. And my surround speakers were bookshelves. I found the direct sound coming directly from the sides sometimes annoying.

Since I put older bookshelves on the floor behind my couch to act as surround backs (I'm back to a bay window, there's nowhere else to put them), I enjoy much more even 5.1 soundtracks since that produces a much more diffuse surround field. And even if those surround backs are rather big, since they're invisible, WAF was very high. I highly recommend this arrangement if it's the only possible -- I mean, it's worth it vs nothing.

And for games, 7.1 is a definite plus (and if we ever get formats with more channels, that will also be a plus) since every speaker is on an equal footing in terms of importance (except for the musical score and cutscene dialogs I guess). If you're spinning in place, the whole sound field rotates around you, and having more speakers to build that is just better.


Those a either front heights or front wides. These are optional speakers on some receivers but they're not playing dedicated channels. Instead, the receiver follows a spec (e.g. pro logic IIz) to extract the content to play on the heights or wides from all other channels. For example, by comparing the left and right channels, the receiver will compute an angle for the source (content) and determine how much of it is played on the main fronts and the front wides. E.g. content that is only found on the right channel and not at all on the left channel may be played only on the right front wide and not on the main right. As for heights, they are mainly used to play content that is either present on all channels (ambiance) or equally on the left, right and center. Typically this is not dialog but instead sound that is meant to come from everywhere in front of you (e.g. explosion). Having sound coming from the heights -- which you're supposed to place above your mains -- enhances that feeling.

Typically (on most receivers that I'm aware of) you can only use either the wides or the heights. In some receivers (e.g. mine) you can plug all 9 or 11 speakers but there's a smaller number of amps available (e.g. 7) so you must choose between enabling front wides or surround backs, for example.

I never tried wides or heights and probably won't ever in my current room. However I'm pretty confident that a good sub would add more to a setup than heights or wides. Not to nag or anything

Shameless plug....I have a pair of RC70s and Rc lcr and Rc8c pair for sale in classifieds if anyone could use them. All are brand new in factory boxing

But people could buy new with warranty for less. Maybe I'm confused. Since you have indeed listed them on this site, will you go ahead and tell us the prices for everything again here on this thread?

Thanks for all of that. Right now I only have the pair of RC-70s. I will be finishing the 5.1 setup once I get into a house in a few months.
I like the fact that the RC-Rs can be wall mounted, but they seem very hard to find nowadays. How close tonally are the current Verita Surrounds? Would they sound out of place? I know rear speakers aren't quite as important, but any sibilance would drive me nuts. That's why I picked the nice neutral RC-70s.

I noticed that too......

Yeah, I was confused if the total shipped price included the RC8C's too, or if everything was indeed separate. IDK. Plus, conversation will only draw interest, no?