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Energy Owners Thread - Page 1372

post #41131 of 51509
This may be changing gears a bit but I have a question about upgrading to Energy speakers. I currently have a 5 year old Sony HTIB and am up grading to a Denon 2113 receiver. My question is what would be best to do with my speakers I have three options:

1) Do nothing and upgrade in the future when we are in a bigger home with more space to fill
2) Upgrade to the Energy take Classic 5.0 with an S-10.3 subwoofer
3) Upgrade the fronts and centers to V-Mini's and leave my current sub and small satellites for now, and then in the future maybe move the v-mini's to the back and get something bigger for the fronts.

My only concerns are that with option 2 when we move to a bigger house ( current room is about 12x18 with 8' ceilings and close to our kids room) I will want something to fill the space more. Or with option 3 that the satellites won't be able to provide enough for good surrounds.

Thanks to anyone who can help me out a bit here.
post #41132 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Ok guys, this was bound to happen...
It seems my GF wants to move the furniture around in the living room. I tried not to stare at her like a deer in headlights but I failed.
What she proposes is basically imposing a 90-degree rotation on the whole room. It has a few advantages with respect to the HT setup (mainly the TV won't be directly in front of the bay window), but it poses some problems. Instead of watching the setup from across the small length of the room, now it would be across the long length. Distance from HT to listener won't be changed that much -- maybe a foot or so -- but available lateral space will be limited.
It seems I'll have very few options to place my RC-70s. Either I try to squeeze them as close to the HT cabinet as possible, or I space them more apart but will have to deal with furniture in front of them. The furniture will be a couch and an armchair. The tweeter and mid would be above the furniture, but not the woofers. There would be at most 2 ft between the woofers and the furniture.
Do you guys feel it would be preferable to spread the towers apart (i.e. obtrusion by furniture won't be too much of a problem) or to squeeze them in (sacrificing soundstage width)?
I'll also be forced to let go of my surround backs; but I'm not too concerned about this as I was using older and crappier SoundDynamics for these and I think I can live with a 5.1 setup. On the plus side, I think I would have more room for a 2nd sub rolleyes.gif

There is only one option here...... move the 70s closer to the TV and buy more speakers to run a 7.1 with wides using RC-10s or VS surrounds! biggrin.gif

If thats not an option, try both setups and see how you like each one. Personally, I would probably go with the wider fronts because I like a wide soundstage. If the woofers are blocked by furniture, the bass is less directional than the higher frequencies, so if you are lacking bass you can turn your sub up a notch or two. Also, when you rerun your room correction program on your receiver, it should account that to some degree and you may not even notice that the woofers are blocked.

But like I said, try both and see what you like better.

And put your foot down a bit! HT takes priority over placement of an armchair!!!! tongue.gif
post #41133 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgallerie View Post

There is only one option here...... move the 70s closer to the TV and buy more speakers to run a 7.1 with wides using RC-10s or VS surrounds! biggrin.gif

That would rock smile.gif Except of course, we're talking about a small living room here. 10x20' ! So right now, listening across the small length, I have lots of leeway in terms of spacing. I could run wides easily (if not for WAF), but I'm doing surround backs instead. After the 90 degrees rotation, the front stage will have to fit in 10' total, so wides are out of the question. I guess I could do heights but I'd have to procure RC-Rs or V-Ses, which would be a PITA in Canada, so I'll satisfy myself with a honest 5.1 setup.
Quote:
If thats not an option, try both setups and see how you like each one.

Obviously you're right, it should be pretty straightforward to move the towers around. But you missed my main point, which was to share my anxiety about this furniture shuffling tongue.gif
Quote:
Personally, I would probably go with the wider fronts because I like a wide soundstage. If the woofers are blocked by furniture, the bass is less directional than the higher frequencies, so if you are lacking bass you can turn your sub up a notch or two. Also, when you rerun your room correction program on your receiver, it should account that to some degree and you may not even notice that the woofers are blocked.

That was my initial reasoning too... But what about side walls? Optimally shouldn't the speakers be a bit off them? Or is a slight toe-in enough to prevent most reflections? (Yeah no room treatment really feasible here sorry guys).
Quote:
And put your foot down a bit! HT takes priority over placement of an armchair!!!! tongue.gif

I'm trying to get that armchair sent to the basement biggrin.gif

I'm seriously considering bringing down the whole basement and begin anew... This would be a *big* project but I think we need it. So anyway whatever we do in our current living room should be temporary before setting up a proper entertainment room. cool.gif
post #41134 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Nicholson View Post

1) Do nothing and upgrade in the future when we are in a bigger home with more space to fill
2) Upgrade to the Energy take Classic 5.0 with an S-10.3 subwoofer
3) Upgrade the fronts and centers to V-Mini's and leave my current sub and small satellites for now, and then in the future maybe move the v-mini's to the back and get something bigger for the fronts.
My only concerns are that with option 2 when we move to a bigger house ( current room is about 12x18 with 8' ceilings and close to our kids room) I will want something to fill the space more.

Option 1 is the "null option" and it's always there. With option 1 you can use the money to buy a dog or a new skateboard too. You can put the money in your retirement fund or invest in your own startup. You can do so much with money that I will simply not consider this for analysis purposes tongue.gif

Between option 2 and 3 I would go with 2 -- better bang for the buck with the S10.3. The Take Classic will certainly be a huge upgrade to the Sony HTiB, and the S10.3 will be miles ahead the Sony sub too. When you move to a bigger house, you'll have other priorities, other options, and who knows, more or less budget. You'll be able to sell the setup, use it as is, or put it in a secondary location (bedroom, kid's room, whatever).
post #41135 of 51509
Thanks for the reply. This is what I was kind of leaning towards but wasn't sure because I thought I might be better off with some bigger speakers up front.

I guess I am also thinking of my dream system in years to come and would rather end up moving the v mini's to back. But maybe I should just get the cheaper system for now and deal with the rest in 10 years or so.

Anyone seen the take classic 5.0 system for less than $250 lately?
post #41136 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Nicholson View Post

Thanks for the reply. This is what I was kind of leaning towards but wasn't sure because I thought I might be better off with some bigger speakers up front.

Well to be fair, "bigger speakers" would indeed sound better than Take Classics. And I think V-Minis are acclaimed speakers; but they're barely "bigger" than Takes and if you're budget-limited, investing in a nice 5.0 setup plus a decent sub is probably a better deal than spending all on a V-Mini front stage without a sub. I'd say both the minis and the Takes require a sub -- and chances are what came with your HTiB doesn't really qualify for the job.
Quote:
I guess I am also thinking of my dream system in years to come and would rather end up moving the v mini's to back. But maybe I should just get the cheaper system for now and deal with the rest in 10 years or so.
Anyone seen the take classic 5.0 system for less than $250 lately?

You have to be pragmatic also, if you're looking at upgrading in 10 years. Who knows what will be your personal situation then? If you said "6 months", ok maybe you could wait a bit for the upgrade. But on a 10 year time frame, I say one bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. You'll have something nice that you can enjoy now fully without breaking the bank. When the time comes you'll be able to upgrade part of the setup (e.g. sub, front stage, etc.) as you see fit, or just sell the whole thing and start anew. Your dream setup may also evolve. Who knows, maybe you'll want Veritas 6.3s all around, not V-Minis smile.gif

As for price, I'm in Canada so I can't comment -- they're much more expensive here. The S10.3 regularly comes down to $200 at newegg.com it seems and at this price it's a no-brainer. There are of course much more capable subs at a higher price point but this sub is often mentioned as the one with the best bang for the buck at $300...
post #41137 of 51509
Wow, well, I've been waiting for the RC-70s but those 1.8's are obviously better by the sounds of it. It would be a 18 hour round trip for me and would probably cost around $140 in gas. I'm trying to decide if I should pull the trigger.

A few questions:
  • Will my current receiver be able to drive these speakers to their full potential? (Do I need it to?) My receiver is a Yamaha RX-V467BL 525-Watt 5.1 Channel AV Receiver
  • Would the sound match my RC-LCR?
  • What is the chance that this is not legit (like, the speakers don't work or they have problems etc) I'm worried it is too good to be true.
  • how would they look next to my LCR?

Thanks guys!


Edit: You can disregard this post. I just called him and they were sold yesterday.
Edited by Orcslayermack - 9/17/12 at 12:04pm
post #41138 of 51509
Thanks Neutro, good advise to consider. I will let you all know what I end up going with and how it sounds.
post #41139 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcslayermack View Post

Wow, well, I've been waiting for the RC-70s but those 1.8's are obviously better by the sounds of it. It would be a 18 hour round trip for me and would probably cost around $140 in gas. I'm trying to decide if I should pull the trigger.
A few questions:
  • Will my current receiver be able to drive these speakers to their full potential? (Do I need it to?) My receiver is a Yamaha RX-V467BL 525-Watt 5.1 Channel AV Receiver
  • Would the sound match my RC-LCR?
  • What is the chance that this is not legit (like, the speakers don't work or they have problems etc) I'm worried it is too good to be true.
  • how would they look next to my LCR?
Thanks guys!
Edit: You can disregard this post. I just called him and they were sold yesterday.


Yeah I sent him a deposit yesterday. I'm going to see them on Sunday. One other forum member has seen them in person and said they didn't seem well taken care of, but he did not audition them. So we'll see. I can live with a some scratches as long as they play well. If they are in really bad shape then I'll be passing on them.

I too am interested in all your above questions, my reciver currently is an onkyo 605 though.
post #41140 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farwen View Post

Yeah I sent him a deposit yesterday. I'm going to see them on Sunday. One other forum member has seen them in person and said they didn't seem well taken care of, but he did not audition them. So we'll see. I can live with a some scratches as long as they play well. If they are in really bad shape then I'll be passing on them.
I too am interested in all your above questions, my reciver currently is an onkyo 605 though.

I guess it all depends on the person. I agree with you regarding the cosmetic condition. The price the seller set is very reasonable if the cosmetic condition is tolerable and mechanically it is flawless, at least to me. Since they are so hard to find, I could live with cosmetic flaws. The ones I bought had really beat up bases, but how often am I really looking at the base.

As for timbre matching, it won't sound like any other Energy line. RC-LCR will not be a timbre match as Hank has already alluded. Maybe, second generation Veritas might be OK. As I don't own those, I don't know. As for looks, since these are piano finish, they won't look that similar to the RC-LCR. They are also very large. Each is around 80lbs. If you do a search, you should find Hank's picture of his Energy speakers. They are bigger than the RC-70's.

As for power, these beasts love clean power and plenty of it. I agree with Hank that they sound much better with a good amp. Hank loves the Luxman M-117. However, that is very hard to find. Just find a good 200watt per channel amp, and you will be amazed.
post #41141 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

So including international shipping and the absence of promo codes, what will be the cost of the LCR for you? Would the promo code have applied if you were shipping it to a US addess (e.g. Kinek point) or is it not applicable on canadian credit cards altogether?
Seeing $200 RC-LCRs triggers all kinds of reflex responses from me (buy buy buy) but I don't know what I'd do with other LCRs biggrin.gif Maybe I could stock them up and re-sell them at $350-400 to unlucky canadians who just bought RC-70s at FutureShop. Yeah, I think this is a grand vision: I'll camp outside FutureShop on boxing day and distribute ads to everyone getting out of there with RC-70s ...tongue.gif

Hi neutro, I received Friday the 14 a LCR from Meijer.com

Cost : CAD 207.99 + California Sales Tax CAD 19.11 + International Shipping and Handling CAD 108.91 + Canadian Customs CAD 39.62 = CAD 375.63

The speaker is flawless and the service was excellent. Shipping cost is ridiculous but hey, I have a new speaker for less than its used price on the market here wink.gif

Also, it only took 11 days to complete.
post #41142 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farwen View Post

Yeah I sent him a deposit yesterday. I'm going to see them on Sunday. One other forum member has seen them in person and said they didn't seem well taken care of, but he did not audition them. So we'll see. I can live with a some scratches as long as they play well. If they are in really bad shape then I'll be passing on them.
I too am interested in all your above questions, my reciver currently is an onkyo 605 though.

I sure hope they play good with no issues.
I got a super steal awesome deal on the pair I bought thanks to a fellow avs member They were in very very nice shape and came with the original owners manual and also 2 pairs of 15' monster Z2 speaker cables for only $400 {deal of a lifetime} I use mine with an RCLCR and for home theater its not a big deal When I listen to music its always in 2 channel so the RCLCR isnt an issue I read a review on the Veritas 2.0 center and it wasnt that good, i suspect the RCLCR may be better. The Veritas center didnt have the tweeter/mid module
They are 6 ohm speakers and dip into 4 ohm with with 87 db sensitivity You will need at least need a high power receiver or if your receiver has pre outs hook them up to an external amp. I have mine triamped....oh ya, if anything it sure looks
super cool having 3 speaker wires going to a speaker. I love the way they sound
post #41143 of 51509
post #41144 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoune View Post

Hi neutro, I received Friday the 14 a LCR from Meijer.com
Cost : CAD 207.99 + California Sales Tax CAD 19.11 + International Shipping and Handling CAD 108.91 + Canadian Customs CAD 39.62 = CAD 375.63
The speaker is flawless and the service was excellent. Shipping cost is ridiculous but hey, I have a new speaker for less than its used price on the market here wink.gif
Also, it only took 11 days to complete.

I think it's a very good price for getting one at your door. I was looking into this when I bought mine and considered going with overstock.com; but that would have cost upwards of $450. I finally opted to get them at Vann's and having it shipped to a Kinek point close to the border. I had to pay federal + provincial taxes on the total, $10 for the Kinek point, and add to that the 6h round-trip (although I managed to combine that with family business close by). I'd say the total was close to what you've paid but I tell you, the hassle of going south of the border and the stress of having to check the speaker for any damage is not worth the few bucks less. I'd have gone the Meijers's way if it had been possible. Although, I also bought a pair of RC-10s. Those aren't available at Meijers aren't they?
post #41145 of 51509
Quad Energy S10.3's

Hello everyone,

I posted back in July about building a new home and experimenting with Quad S10.3's and after a delay in the build and my delay due to getting settled in and working a lot of hours lately, I have some initial results to share. Keep in mind this is by no means definitive yet and I haven't had a lot of time to devote to this, but it's a start friends. I will follow up with more detailed info and subjective impressions soon. If anyone has sugestions for experiments with specific test material/movies/music or sub implementation I will try to accommodate them.

I did these measurements with REW, and the sub out of my Denon 1909 is being split by miniDsp, but I have not done any tweaking with the miniDsp plug in yet.

Here is a single S10.3 in the back right "corner" of the listening room:

singlesubbrcatmlp.jpg

And here is Quad S10.3's, two in the back corners and two up front in a stereo config.

quadsubs.jpg

So far I really like sound without doing a lot of tweaking. The initial results seem to confirm that quad subs can really make a improvement without EQ or DSP. smile.gif
post #41146 of 51509
I updated the status of my Meijer purchase (Canada) in THIS post.
post #41147 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Nicholson View Post

This may be changing gears a bit but I have a question about upgrading to Energy speakers. I currently have a 5 year old Sony HTIB and am up grading to a Denon 2113 receiver. My question is what would be best to do with my speakers I have three options:
1) Do nothing and upgrade in the future when we are in a bigger home with more space to fill
2) Upgrade to the Energy take Classic 5.0 with an S-10.3 subwoofer
3) Upgrade the fronts and centers to V-Mini's and leave my current sub and small satellites for now, and then in the future maybe move the v-mini's to the back and get something bigger for the fronts.
My only concerns are that with option 2 when we move to a bigger house ( current room is about 12x18 with 8' ceilings and close to our kids room) I will want something to fill the space more. Or with option 3 that the satellites won't be able to provide enough for good surrounds.
Thanks to anyone who can help me out a bit here.

Just get some RC-10s and stop messing with satellite speakers. RC-10s are not huge bookshelf speakers and will do a much better job of filling your room than either the V-Mini or Take Classics. And also get the S10.3 sub. I'd rather have a 2.1 setup with RC-10s and S10.3 than a Take classic 5.1 setup.

RC-10s would cost you less than V Minis anyway. Why pay more for less?
Edited by afrogt - 9/17/12 at 6:44pm
post #41148 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

I posted back in July about building a new home and experimenting with Quad S10.3's and after a delay in the build and my delay due to getting settled in and working a lot of hours lately, I have some initial results to share.

That's awesome Todd -- amazing that you can achieve this without any EQ. I know it's hard to find time to do proper measurements so I thank you for that very impressive before/after graph. If I could have only *one more* graph though, I'd like to compare quads vs duals smile.gif I'm not question the sanity of running quads rolleyes.gif but I think it would be interesting to everyone to see if you can achieve, say, 80% of what you get with quads with "only" duals (minus a few dB's).
post #41149 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

That's awesome Todd -- amazing that you can achieve this without any EQ. I know it's hard to find time to do proper measurements so I thank you for that very impressive before/after graph. If I could have only *one more* graph though, I'd like to compare quads vs duals smile.gif I'm not question the sanity of running quads rolleyes.gif but I think it would be interesting to everyone to see if you can achieve, say, 80% of what you get with quads with "only" duals (minus a few dB's).

Thank you neutro,

I do want to stress that these may not be the final measurements and that my listening space is not a dedicated HT room sealed off from the rest of the house. That being said a lot of people have living room HT's open to the rest of the house and I feel that this may give those that do not have the perfect dedicated HT reason to explore multiple subs.

As to your request. It seems that I got very lucky with this new listening space as my initial measurements are nearly as good with stereo subs next to the L&R speakers when measured at the MLP. I do have the feeling though that despite the close measurements at the MLP that I will subjectively prefer the quad subs. I say this because I believe I will find the measurements of quad vs dual subs to be more consistent for every seat in the room and perhaps sub localization may be almost impossible with quads. When I ran a single sub, I never got the feeling that small speakers like my surrounds were truly integrated with the low end from the sub. When I added a second sub at my previous home, I felt this was a huge improvement when a effect in the surround channels was supposed to be full range.

Stereo S10.3's!

stereosubs.jpg

biggrin.gif
post #41150 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I think it's a very good price for getting one at your door. I was looking into this when I bought mine and considered going with overstock.com; but that would have cost upwards of $450. I finally opted to get them at Vann's and having it shipped to a Kinek point close to the border. I had to pay federal + provincial taxes on the total, $10 for the Kinek point, and add to that the 6h round-trip (although I managed to combine that with family business close by). I'd say the total was close to what you've paid but I tell you, the hassle of going south of the border and the stress of having to check the speaker for any damage is not worth the few bucks less. I'd have gone the Meijers's way if it had been possible. Although, I also bought a pair of RC-10s. Those aren't available at Meijers aren't they?

Nop they don't seem to have RC-10 !

toddRiffic, really useful graphs, thanks you.
post #41151 of 51509
Just ordered a pair of V6.2 and a V5.2 for my living room. Excited to see how they compare to my 12 year old Veritas line-up of V2.2i mains, V2.0i center, and V2.1i surrounds.
post #41152 of 51509
I got a hunch your old Veritas speakers will be significantly better than the new V line.
post #41153 of 51509
Ya... why would you be excited about that comparison? Comparing a top of the line original Veritas to a rebadged RC version of Veritas that is voiced overly bright....
post #41154 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by deano86 View Post

Ya... why would you be excited about that comparison? Comparing a top of the line original Veritas to a rebadged RC version of Veritas that is voiced overly bright....

Its something to play with.......DUH!!!!!! tongue.gif
post #41155 of 51509
Well, you are correct there!smile.gif And to be honest the new Veritas do look a lot nicer than the old original versions... in Rosenut especially!.... and are a very good speaker in their own right. I think I may be just a bit jealous of someone having both!biggrin.gif
post #41156 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoune View Post

Nop they don't seem to have RC-10 !

Seriously it has become so much of a hassle to assemble an RC setup nowadays, even in the US now, that I wonder why they keep producing it. I means they should either shut down the line for good or get their **** together and build a distribution chain that doesn't make customer jump trough hoops to get their hands on what they want.

I *love* my RC setup mind you but I'm really fed up with that whole "Oh there's an RC-LCR there! No more RC-70s here! Vann's no longer an authorized seller! RC is not available in Canada except when FutureShop decide to get a bunch of towers! Well get new shipments by november!" It feels the only reason Energy still has a following is because of the dirt cheap prices on the RCs.
post #41157 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by deano86 View Post

Well, you are correct there!smile.gif And to be honest the new Veritas do look a lot nicer than the old original versions... in Rosenut especially!.... and are a very good speaker in their own right. I think I may be just a bit jealous of someone having both!biggrin.gif

I am able to make comparisons since I have CF70's & CC-10, RC-70's & RCLCR and V6.2's &V5.2.

Just my own observation but I like the Veritas line for Broadcast TV and from what I can tell so far HT environment.
I think there might be a little more to the equation of comparing the RC line to the newer Veritas line
Edited by baron2 - 9/18/12 at 10:56pm
post #41158 of 51509
Energy could benefit greatly by using a new marketing and business model.
post #41159 of 51509
Are there any Energy RC-70 owners in Oklahoma?? Really want to audition the RC-70's, but can't find any.

I just moved from my apartment into a new house and my C-500's and PA-120 sub just aren't cutting it anymore. They PA-120 sub has always sounded a little boomy and really not that loud for my tastes. Now it's really now that loud since I've got about 4,000 CUBIC feet (not sq.ft people lol). I don't listen to music everyday and don't watch a movie every single day, but I'd say I'm still an audiophile that loves musics and movies. I still listen and watch fairly frequently. Just wondering if the RC-70's would be a significant upgrade.

My biggest complaints on the C-500's are well..most everything lol. Too boomy and boxy sounding in the lower midrange/midbass, recessed midrange & treble, etc. Recessed as in muffled almost, not warm. At times things can get a bit bright, but I haven't broke out my RTA to track it down b/c I figured I'd be changing my setup soon anyways.
post #41160 of 51509
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Seriously it has become so much of a hassle to assemble an RC setup nowadays, even in the US now, that I wonder why they keep producing it. I means they should either shut down the line for good or get their **** together and build a distribution chain that doesn't make customer jump trough hoops to get their hands on what they want.
I *love* my RC setup mind you but I'm really fed up with that whole "Oh there's an RC-LCR there! No more RC-70s here! Vann's no longer an authorized seller! RC is not available in Canada except when FutureShop decide to get a bunch of towers! Well get new shipments by november!" It feels the only reason Energy still has a following is because of the dirt cheap prices on the RCs.

Complaining about the lack of RC model availability seems a bit weird when the line has been discontinued for several years. Once Klipsch took over, the fact that special arrangements were made with Future Shop and Vanns to get some additional RC stock speaks to the popularity of this Energy series. But, it should be looked at only as a nice bonus and a 2nd chance for those people who missed out on them before. And now with Audiovox calling the shots, it truly appears that the Energy name will no longer by synonymous with quality sound, but with lower level budget offerings only...
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