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Energy Owners Thread - Page 1382

post #41431 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Make sure you have the options to place bipoles or dipoles correctly. Here are two resources that show layouts for using bipole, dipole, and direct radiating:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=66471
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=170720

http://www.avsforum.com/t/630450/energy-owners-thread/41400

There is a picture of the space. You can see a plate or the Side's right next to the window. Then there is a picture of the one directly opposite.

You can also see where I would have to place my rears. They are near the corner in the back.

If I got direct firing and mount next to the window and on the other side, they would have to face my chairs directly. (S=Surrounds if I got RC 10's) About 7-8 ft off ground

(Front)______Center________(Front)
|
|
|
|
|
(S) ---> Chairs Chairs <--- (S)


This is why i was thinking Di Pole and the I could put the rc 10's in the rear corners
post #41432 of 51498
@ batpig & neutro: I am not saying that I am wasting or losing something if I dont run them full range. I am looking at it in the same sense as running multiple subs: better room response (even bass). I find the 70s have excellent bass in my room for music, and adding a sub smooths out the low end since I have a very open upstairs listening area. You have the bass from 2 speakers and a sub (3 sources) vice one.
post #41433 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

@ batpig & neutro: I am not saying that I am wasting or losing something if I dont run them full range. I am looking at it in the same sense as running multiple subs: better room response (even bass). I find the 70s have excellent bass in my room for music, and adding a sub smooths out the low end since I have a very open upstairs listening area. You have the bass from 2 speakers and a sub (3 sources) vice one.

On that regard you're absolutely right: above 40 Hz the fact that you have 3 speakers playing the content will smooth out the frequency response and improve bass uniformity. This is indeed a considerable advantage. But you will nonetheless have to sacrifice sub-40 Hz uniformity as 1) only the sub will have significant output below that and 2) you will necessarily have less output below 40 Hz than above. As batpig noted, this is particularly fine for music because there are few instruments that can generate notes below 40 Hz. Also, you may actually like the colored bass that you get, with a boost in the 40-100 Hz region. This will actually feel rather punchy / musical, as very low frequencies are more rumbles than thumps.
post #41434 of 51498
right -- but that still doesn't argue against my suggestion of running small/40Hz. This allows for the multiple bass sources in that 40-80hz octave while letting the sub do the dirty work below the RC-70's useful range.
post #41435 of 51498
With these RCLCR's on sale for $199 I'm tempted to add another in the center. Right now I have two RC-70's and one RCLCR up front, RC-R's on the side and two S10.3's. Would I notice any appreciable difference by adding another RC-LCR in the center? A $200 difference? I would wire them in series correct?

Also I'm wondering about 7.1 vs. Height speakers. Which way is the more pronounced difference and what speakers are recommend considering my current setup? I'm leaning toward rear speakers as I used to have heights set up and I really had to crank them to notice anything plus the wall they would have to go on if I use front height speaker is solid block which makes mounting them a challenge.

I am using a Denon 1910 AVR. Would there be any power issues by wiring two center speakers together?
post #41436 of 51498
1. running a double-center isn't really a great idea. If you want to get crazy you can give it a shot but it's really not a recommended configuration.

2. this is really room and setup dependent, hard to generalize. A lot of people will advocate for surr.backs because there is a decent amount of material encoded in full 7.1, and it allows for a more seamless "wraparound" effect in your rear hemisphere. The height speakers can be subtle, and the effectiveness depends a lot on how high you can get them. If your ceilings are too low to allow much vertical separation from the fronts (angular separation is what really matters) it may be hard to hear much improvement, plus your 1910 only has PLIIz which is the most "sublte" of the height effects anyway. Either way, they shouldn't stick out too much, it's more about a subtle vertical expansion of the front soundstage.

In either case, RC-10's would be perfect, so you can buy a pair of RC-10's and try them both ways (surr.back and height) and see which sounds better in your room. But given what you've described I think surr.back is probably the way to go.
post #41437 of 51498
ooh, somebody in SoCal should grab these: http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ele/3316544393.html

$175 for a pair of 5.1e is a ridiculous good deal. I would happily grab them myself but for the two somewhat interrelated reasons that (1) my wife would kill me and (2) I have absolutely nowhere to put them.


also looking at eBay:

there's also a pair of rosenut RC-30's for only $440 (local pickup) in the OC (Aliso Viejo), but auction ends in 2 hours so act fast: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-RC-30-Reference-Connoisseur-Floorstanding-Speakers-in-Rosenut-/180986538148?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item2a23a368a4

and a cherry RC-LCR for only $275 shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-RC-LCR-Left-Right-or-Center-Channel-Cherry-Brand-New-/140860048140?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item20cbe9c30c

and a seller in the OC (Irvine) has a pair of C-9 and a C-C3 center, currently $500 total with no bids. This is effectively equivalent to an RC-70 + RC-LCR setup (just the previous C models that came right before).


oh, and the best deal of all but local pickup only for someone near Midland, Michigan, $459 for a pair of RC-70 (although a couple of corner dings): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-RC-70-3-way-tower-speakers-MI-pickup-only-/290784029849?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item43b4142c99
Edited by batpig - 10/4/12 at 1:37pm
post #41438 of 51498
fyi, those RC-30s have been listed over and over again. He keeps listing them with only about a 1 or 2 day auction, nobody bids, then they get relisted. Probably been relisted 6 or 8 times now!

You'd think he'd learn to lengthen the auction timeframe or lower his starting price!
post #41439 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

ooh, somebody in SoCal should grab these: http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ele/3316544393.html
$175 for a pair of 5.1e is a ridiculous good deal. I would happily grab them myself but for the two somewhat interrelated reasons that (1) my wife would kill me and (2) I have absolutely nowhere to put them.

How do these compare with RC-70s? And how would they sound with an RC-LCR as a center?
post #41440 of 51498
Batpig:

1) "that is one heck of a BEDROOM setup"!

Thanx! I originally bought an entire 5.1 set of CC-100, C-100's for the Family Room but then realized that the Mitsubishi 60 inch Rear Projector had great sound and we rarely watch movies in there and NEVER listen to music. Plus it's the only room where I can control the amount of light coming in and I'm looking to replace my Sony 46 inch with a Panasonic 65 inch Plasma.


2) "You are already clearly past the point of "overkill" even with a 5.2 setup with RC-70's, so it's all gravy from here. One thing is for sure is that the 4520 is total overkill unless you REALLY want Audyssey LFC or something. The extra features (USB hub, HDMI matrix output to another zone, etc) are really more suited for a "master" receiver that is controlling a more dedicated setup. The only advantage I would see for a bedroom system would be the LFC (low freq containment) tech if you are concerned about disturbing other people in the house with late night bass, but that's a pretty big premium to pay for that one tech".

I'm a guitar player who managed to damage his ears over the years. I've got the blues after playing too much blues. At this point I'm not happy with my RC's but I'm HOPING that it's my crappy old AVR, which has no room correction, and all the limitations I have with my room and speaker placement.

So point-by-point:

a) All music and movies are in this room. And yeah, although we've got an acre, the bass containment is a concern when others in the house aren't interested in hearing it. I've got a HUGE music collection and never get to hear it.

b) I want to know I'm getting the best sound after accumulating what I think is the ideal system. Although now I'm wondering if maybe what my ears are missing could be provided by getting some Veritas 6.2's and starting all over. This is one reason I got the VS Surrounds...to hear the new tweeters. Or it may be that my ears can no longer hear what I'm craving. In which case I can always grab the Bose from the basement!

c) I'm considering getting one of the new Oppo 105's and want to give it what it needs to shine.

d) Re: "The rear speakers would be about 2 feet above my ears and about 1-1/2 feet behind me, firing over my head."

Is this worth the effort, since I already have the 2 RC-Mini's?


e) Re: "The heights would be mounted on the wall above the RC70's so they will only be about 4 feet above them. Does this sound workable or should I just give up and stick with 5.2 with the VS's"?

Again, I've already got the RC10's.


f) The VS Surrounds would be about midway on the 15 foot walls and mounted about 6 feet high. Should I move them back? Now that that they're on their way, I've done some research and I'm thinking that if I put them at 90 degrees to my ears they will only be 2 feet from the back wall.

Yes, I'm anal, but with a little help from this forum and a new AVR I'm hoping I'll never have to do this again.
post #41441 of 51498
Who bought the great condition v6.2's frown.gif
post #41442 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

1. running a double-center isn't really a great idea. If you want to get crazy you can give it a shot but it's really not a recommended configuration.
2. this is really room and setup dependent, hard to generalize. A lot of people will advocate for surr.backs because there is a decent amount of material encoded in full 7.1, and it allows for a more seamless "wraparound" effect in your rear hemisphere. The height speakers can be subtle, and the effectiveness depends a lot on how high you can get them. If your ceilings are too low to allow much vertical separation from the fronts (angular separation is what really matters) it may be hard to hear much improvement, plus your 1910 only has PLIIz which is the most "sublte" of the height effects anyway. Either way, they shouldn't stick out too much, it's more about a subtle vertical expansion of the front soundstage.
In either case, RC-10's would be perfect, so you can buy a pair of RC-10's and try them both ways (surr.back and height) and see which sounds better in your room. But given what you've described I think surr.back is probably the way to go.

Ok well that saves me $200! Ha. I've already got three Rc10's so I'll either try a 6.1 and leave the others for a stereo setup in the bedroom or I'll put the $200 towards another RC10 and have both. Thanks.
post #41443 of 51498
not energy related, but my 2nd DIY sub kit has arrived!! Just need to find time to start building it!! smile.gif It will be in a room full of energy though... to make a 7.2
Trio12 APR15 BASH500
post #41444 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

not energy related, but my 2nd DIY sub kit has arrived!! Just need to find time to start building it!! smile.gif It will be in a room full of energy though... to make a 7.2
Trio12 APR15 BASH500

That's pretty cool. I wish I had the woodworking skills to build a sub enclosure. Definitely very cost effective way of getting a good sub.

Did you get the kit with the Antimode? I have one. They do work very well.
post #41445 of 51498
Hello again everyone,
I am purchasing a set of Energy Take Classic 5.0 speaker system and am trying to decide on a sub to go with it. I have narrowed it down to the following:

Energy S10.3 - $249 + 25 shipping from Amazon (I know I missed the new egg deal for $200)
Omni S8 - $200 when purchased with the speakers from crutchfield.com

I have a room that is about 16' by 20' by 8'. I will be using the system for some movies but they are usually quite due to kids, but I can see myself turning it up for some music.

I am wondering if anyone has an opinion on whether or not the S10.3 is worth the extra $75.

Thanks for any help,
Matt
post #41446 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Nicholson View Post

Hello again everyone,
I am purchasing a set of Energy Take Classic 5.0 speaker system and am trying to decide on a sub to go with it. I have narrowed it down to the following:
Energy S10.3 - $249 + 25 shipping from Amazon (I know I missed the new egg deal for $200)
Omni S8 - $200 when purchased with the speakers from crutchfield.com
I have a room that is about 16' by 20' by 8'. I will be using the system for some movies but they are usually quite due to kids, but I can see myself turning it up for some music.

Energy S10.3=Mirage Omni S10, Energy S8.3=Mirage Omni S8. So they are the same subwoofer line just rebranded. Literally (same parent company).

So quality wise, they are both very good. Big brother/little brother. However, the 8" woofer in the S8 would be challenged at larger volumes in a room that size.

However, at $275, then you are close to the Klipsch RW-12d price. About once every month or so, Newegg puts it on sale at $300. Or for $280, the BIC PL-200 can be had from Acoustic Sound Design (make them an offer).

How old are your kids? They are going to love some of these 4 to 5 start movies with some volume cranked and a good sub: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts. Some good kid movies in those lists. So don't count them out as not being able to appreciate the benefits of a good sub biggrin.gif
post #41447 of 51498
Batpig, what setup/setups do you have?
post #41448 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

This is where my opinion differs. For large, full range speakers, I run them full range and use a sub to augment room response. RC70s have quite a lot of good bass below 80 Hz, so why throw that away? I always hear people say it is "easier on the amp/receiver". I bought mine to work, so that is what it does biggrin.gif

Couldnt say it better myself.
post #41449 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

@ batpig & neutro: I am not saying that I am wasting or losing something if I dont run them full range. I am looking at it in the same sense as running multiple subs: better room response (even bass). I find the 70s have excellent bass in my room for music, and adding a sub smooths out the low end since I have a very open upstairs listening area. You have the bass from 2 speakers and a sub (3 sources) vice one.

I think it all depends on your room characteristics whether or not you are truly getting a benefit from running your towers full range. Many times your fronts are located such that they can create unnecessary peaks or nulls in your room response. I have RC-70s and cross them over at a minimum of 60Hz, if not at 80Hz. I find it is easier to EQ the low bass when it is only coming from the sub or sub locations. Not to mention I am a big believer in letting a speaker only work in it's comfort zone and not burdening it with the very low frequencies. 6.5 inch drivers can not move the air like a 12 inch dedicated one can... so by feeding them those full range frequencies it has to deal "trying" to reproduce them. The drivers have to move excessively to do that and I think can negatively affect it's accurate reproduction of the higher frequencies. In fact, I find in my particular room, when I compare running my 70's full range with a sub and then crossing them over at a higher frequency, my feeling of the low bass frequecies is improved with them crossed over... But, each persons room is totally different, that is for certain....
post #41450 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

not energy related, but my 2nd DIY sub kit has arrived!! Just need to find time to start building it!! smile.gif It will be in a room full of energy though... to make a 7.2
Trio12 APR15 BASH500

That is indeed very cool. Do you find building the cabinet hard? How much is you total investment in each of those DIY subs? I see the kit is about $400 shipped, and you have to build the cabinet... can you do it under $600 total? I find it interesting that the kit comes with a passive radiator. This is far from being the most common enclosure alignment, but it seems Nathan Funk from Funk Audio decided to go with them instead of ports in its 15.3 and 18.3 subs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deano86 View Post

I have RC-70s and cross them over at a minimum of 60Hz, if not at 80Hz. I find it is easier to EQ the low bass when it is only coming from the sub or sub locations. Not to mention I am a big believer in letting a speaker only work in it's comfort zone and not burdening it with the very low frequencies. 6.5 inch drivers can not move the air like a 12 inch dedicated one can...

Exactly. For what it's worth, SVS have a look-up tool which suggest crossover frequencies given your main speakers. For the RC-70s they recommend 60 Hz. In my case my receiver can only do discrete crossover frequencies, and I had to choose either 50 or 80 Hz, so I've decided 80 Hz. In my room this has the benefit of lessening nulls that are present around 80 Hz when the RC-70s are crossed at 50 Hz. Not sure where those nulls come from (positioning of the towers? comb filter effect? hard to tell) but they disappear when the sub handles those frequencies. The nulls completely disappear when I cross at 100 Hz but I find that a bit high as bass becomes directional at these frequencies.
post #41451 of 51498
Also, I'm planning a trip close to the border in November so I was wondering if I could peruse Kinek again. One thing I wanted were in-ceiling speakers but I was unsure of the way to go. Turns out that Crutchfield USA now has the Energy RC-6Cst in stock! Those are speakers with dual tweeters that can take stereo inputs so that both channels can be sent to a single speaker. This is ideal for a dining + kitchen area, where listeners are all over the place anyway. I think I'll grab two of these... They're $120 each, which is way more expensive than the RC-6C ($80 each) but still a good deal I think. I must pace myself though as the Kinek point will charge me more if I leave the packages there for more than 30 days.
post #41452 of 51498
Alright so I bit.

I have ordered

Fronts - 3 X LCR's
Surrounds - 2 x VS Surrounds
Rear - 2 x RC 10

Paid about $1200 total.

I totally would buy the RC-70's as another set for my living room. Just skeptical on the Open Boxes. Do you think any of the sets listed on Vanns wouldnt be that bad?

I see a few that say have been repaired but has dings. What does that mean?
post #41453 of 51498
probably means they had corners bashed due to shipping (a common complaint when Vann's doesn't double box) and were returned, and then someone probably smoothed them out with wood putty and a paint touch-up or something like that.

might as well listen to the new setup for a bit before buying anything else. I think you'll be pleased! smile.gif
post #41454 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

probably means they had corners bashed due to shipping (a common complaint when Vann's doesn't double box) and were returned, and then someone probably smoothed them out with wood putty and a paint touch-up or something like that.
might as well listen to the new setup for a bit before buying anything else. I think you'll be pleased! smile.gif

Ohh that doesnt sound too bad if you put it that way. I just didnt know if there was raw wood/partical board showing and cracks.

I might be able to live with that at $300-320/ea
post #41455 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

probably means they had corners bashed due to shipping (a common complaint when Vann's doesn't double box) and were returned, and then someone probably smoothed them out with wood putty and a paint touch-up or something like that.
might as well listen to the new setup for a bit before buying anything else. I think you'll be pleased! smile.gif

Just need to add a sub now. Does anyone know what the crossover on the lcrs are?
post #41456 of 51498
do you mean the internal crossover points? Those are listed in the specs: http://www.energy-speakers.com/center-speakers/?sku=RC-LCR

if you mean the "recommended" crossover point to the subwoofer, the RC-LCR's can easily handle 60Hz but in a dedicated HT environment with a good subwoofer 80Hz is probably a logical choice. That would be pretty solid for all 7 of your speakers actually.
post #41457 of 51498
Hi,

I have an Energy setup as follows : 2 RC70s, RCLCR, ESWV10. I recently replaced my side and rear RC10s, which were ceiling mounted on Omnimount brackets with RC8C in ceiling speakers. I have 2 installed so far, and 2 more are on their way to me. The RC10s sounded very good, they just looked a bit awkward hanging on the ceiling. The RC8Cs sound amazing, and they aren't broked in as of yet. Really really pleased I could find four of these speakers. Very excited. My next purchase is to replace my sub with a HSU VTF15H. Loving Energy speakers, shame the RC line is discontinued.

Brian
post #41458 of 51498
congrats smile.gif it's always great to hear more feedback about the in-wall/ceiling versions of these speakers. I recommended these to a friend as "height" speakers in a 9ch DSX setup (powered by 4311ci) and they sound awesome, fit in perfectly with a very high end M&K speaker setup for the other 7.2 channels.
post #41459 of 51498
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffactoryxx View Post

Alright so I bit.
I have ordered
Fronts - 3 X LCR's
Surrounds - 2 x VS Surrounds
Rear - 2 x RC 10
Paid about $1200 total.

That is a totally awesome setup, I'm sure you'll be delighted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffactoryxx View Post

Just need to add a sub now.

... exactly what I was going to add biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlivingstone View Post

I recently replaced my side and rear RC10s, which were ceiling mounted on Omnimount brackets with RC8C in ceiling speakers. I have 2 installed so far, and 2 more are on their way to me. The RC10s sounded very good, they just looked a bit awkward hanging on the ceiling. The RC8Cs sound amazing, and they aren't broked in as of yet. Really really pleased I could find four of these speakers. Very excited. My next purchase is to replace my sub with a HSU VTF15H. Loving Energy speakers, shame the RC line is discontinued.
Brian

So you decided to keep the 8Cs finally? Having four of them is one hell of a bundle. They're actually the largest RC drivers smile.gif But they're about impossible to find right now, whatever the price. As said previously, I have my eyes on the RC-6Cst which are now again available at Crutchfield's for a reasonable price, but in my case it's not for a HT application. The nice thing with the 6Cst is that if I ever want to remove them and use them in a home theater environment, they can be used as single-channel bipole or dipole speakers. Actually I'm tempted to buy four of them now tongue.gif But I also must save up for my 2nd sub biggrin.gif (not a VTF-15H alas).
post #41460 of 51498
Who has the best deal on RC-10's right now? And what about RC-minis for rears? The RC-10's seem a little big for the wall in my situation.

Is there a secret way to run wires in wall or inside the ceiling that doesn't involve tearing the drywall out? If I could figure out how to run wire through the walls I would consider in wall speakers for rears.
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