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Energy Owners Thread - Page 1413

post #42361 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghflyer View Post

Thanks Fears4Ears, I used that code which was better (for this speaker, but not for the v-mini bookshelves, oddly) than the one on their site. Anyhow, WAF won out and I will be doing the veritas mini center as well. thanks again all.

You won't be disappointed. I had the equivalent (RC mini CC, 4 X RC mini's) in a fairly large area (22 x 10, attached to a kitchen in an open space), and was pretty satisfied. The improvement is tangible when you go to RC-10's (V5.1 is the equivalent) and significant when you step up to towers RC-50 (V6.2 equivalent) and the RC-LCR (V 5.2 CC). I made those progressions, so I know the differences, but the V mini system will be very good for you.

If the mini's is what you can do now, the minis will do you fine as long as you choose a really good supporting sub you're compromising a good amount here, why not get a very good sub?

batpig is right (I've heard that before), avoid those subs and spend on one that will give you crisp, good bass and a good extension.
Edited by hernanu - 12/3/12 at 6:58am
post #42362 of 51438
So i just am about to hook up all my speakers and realized there are two sets of connectors. Which set do I use??

post #42363 of 51438
They're supposed to come with metal bridges between the upper and lower connectors. With the bridges on it doesn't matter. If you don't have the bridges, just connect a short length of wire between the top and bottom post for each polarity.

EDIT: you remove the bridges when you want to bi-amp the speakers. You need the bridge if you don't bi-amp them.
post #42364 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

They're supposed to come with metal bridges between the upper and lower connectors. With the bridges on it doesn't matter. If you don't have the bridges, just connect a short length of wire between the top and bottom post for each polarity.
EDIT: you remove the bridges when you want to bi-amp the speakers. You need the bridge if you don't bi-amp them.

Thanks. Those actually arnt mine pictured above. Just a random one from google. I have the bridges on mine.
post #42365 of 51438
the key is to understand that with the bridge in place, the connectors are physically connected by a conductive metal strip and so they behave as one unit. Thus it doesn't matter whether you use the top or bottom set.
post #42366 of 51438
Anyone running a Emotiva XPA-3 with CF70s? Thinking about purchasing the xpa3 to power the CF70s and the V 5.2 center. AVR is Pioneer elite vsx53. Just curious if any noticeable improvement will be made with the xpa3
post #42367 of 51438
I think I will be getting an XPA in the future, maybe next xmas or something, but first I need to replace my 70s with something (Hopefully 6.3's).
post #42368 of 51438
You think there would be any benefit from the xpa3 with my current setup?
post #42369 of 51438
there are still some key variables missing -- how big is your room? how far do you sit from the speakers? how loud do you listen?

unless the answers are "really big", "really far", and "really loud", any real potential benefit is unlikely.
post #42370 of 51438
I'm looking to sell my pair of CF 70 and CC10, I have all original packaging and they are in perfect condition. What would be a fair price? Also what do you think would be a fair price for a pair of Klipsch SW450 subs in perfect condition with original boxes?
post #42371 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

there are still some key variables missing -- how big is your room? how far do you sit from the speakers? how loud do you listen?
unless the answers are "really big", "really far", and "really loud", any real potential benefit is unlikely.

Right. Most of my listening is from movies. I'd say 80% movies and 20% music. I guess im just looking for a little more dynamics and "punch" from my speakers. The room is approx 15x12. Only reason im curious is the wifey asked what i wanted for xmas. Emotiva is having a sale on it right now. Do I need it? Probably not, but if its a gift then maybe I'll go through with the purchase. I was just wondering how much of a difference it would make.
post #42372 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo samurai View Post

You think there would be any benefit from the xpa3 with my current setup?
I always wondered what external amplification would do for my set up (RC 50's,RC LCR) So after much debate I wound up getting 3 Outlaw Audio monoblocks that have 200 watts each. I added them to my Pioneer Elite SC 25 with 140 watts* per channel. Can I hear a difference? No not really. I'm thinking I should sell them and upgrade my subwoofer. I think if I were you I would just use your Pio since your speakers are sensitive and can be driven by most avr's. Maybe you can upgrade a weak link in your set up. Just my 2 pennies biggrin.gif
post #42373 of 51438
Thanks for the reply. Kind of seems like the consensus from what I've been reading here on this forum. However, on the Emotiva forum its seems to be the opposite. Upsell? I don't know. Maybe I'll upgrade the subwoofer, missed out on a few black friday deals.
post #42374 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo samurai View Post

Thanks for the reply. Kind of seems like the consensus from what I've been reading here on this forum. However, on the Emotiva forum its seems to be the opposite. Upsell? I don't know. Maybe I'll upgrade the subwoofer, missed out on a few black friday deals.
I think you would hear a bigger diff. with a new sub or if you were to timber match your fronts.
post #42375 of 51438
My goodness, in a 15x12 room amplification is the least of your concerns. Unless that's in meters tongue.gif. you are probably not even using 10 watts per ch.

I'd look elsewhere for an upgrade. How about snagging a pair of Veritas towers to match the center? Adding a second sub?
post #42376 of 51438
I am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo samurai View Post

Thanks for the reply. Kind of seems like the consensus from what I've been reading here on this forum. However, on the Emotiva forum its seems to be the opposite. Upsell? I don't know. Maybe I'll upgrade the subwoofer, missed out on a few black friday deals.

I am SHOCKED that in the amp forum they think you should buy a beefier amp tongue.gif
post #42377 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

My goodness, in a 15x12 room amplification is the least of your concerns. Unless that's in meters tongue.gif. you are probably not even using 10 watts per ch.
I'd look elsewhere for an upgrade. How about snagging a pair of Veritas towers to match the center? Adding a second sub?

I'm currently looking at subs rt now. That's where i'll start.
post #42378 of 51438
I know the standard or most common crossover point that people tend to use (or at least start with) is 80hz...but out of curiosity, is there a reason why people dont set it even higher (to say 200hz or so)? I tried it last night and noticed i feel considerably more "thump" with it that way, so im throwing this out there to see what everyone has to say about it. Theoreticaly, it takes even more load off the avr/amp and sends it to the 2 dedicated vsw10 subs, but i figure there must be a reason why people dont set it that high.
Edited by zdoggz - 12/4/12 at 10:29am
post #42379 of 51438
yes, there is a reason -- it has to do with the "localization" of bass frequencies. Audio researchers have found that 80Hz is the approximate frequency below which the bass frequencies are no longer localizable (due to the long wavelengths). This means you can place your speakers in the proper position for home theater, and the low bass radiator in the best position for bass response. By choosing an 80Hz crossover, it allows this setup to "blend" properly so the sounds come from where they are "supposed to" and the bass module can be placed at the best point in the room to cover the ultra low frequencies. If the crossover is too high, then you start to localize the bass to the subwoofer, and it sounds like the thumps are coming from, say, the left corner of the room.

Plus, most speakers can produce down to 80Hz no problem, whereas most subwoofers are at their best at 100Hz and below (concentrating on the bottom 2 octaves). Essentially, the 80Hz setting is the best "compromise" point for overall system performance, balancing the issues of speaker performance, imaging, and bass response, and letting each speaker in the system do what it does best. That's why THX spec is for an 80Hz crossover.

Now, in the "real world" the 80Hz rule doesn't always work out as the best option. For example, if you have multiple subs (which you do) that can mitigate the issue of bass localization by having multiple radiators. Many people with multiple excellent subs prefer to set the crossover higher than 80Hz to let them carry even more of the heavy load. And, of course, if you have tiny satellite speakers than an 80Hz crossover isn't practical because the speakers roll off well above that.

Anyway, 200Hz is probably too high, as the subs are likely rolling off on the high end well before that, so you could be opening up a "hole" in the frequency response. The VSW-10 is only rated up to 120Hz as the -3dB point on the high end, which means it probably starts rolling off around 100Hz. Many subs are designed this way, allowing them to concentrate on that 20-100Hz range.

In a perfect world, you have some external measuring gear that allows you to actually verify the in-room response and select the crossover that provides the flattest system response at the crossover frequency.
post #42380 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, there is a reason -- it has to do with the "localization" of bass frequencies. Audio researchers have found that 80Hz is the approximate frequency below which the bass frequencies are no longer localizable (due to the long wavelengths.
It's actually closer to 100Hz. However, even with a brickwall low pass filter there will still be a lot of content above the crossover frequency. That's because subwoofers (all speakers, actually) create harmonics of the source signal, so while the signal into the sub may be 80Hz. there will be audible harmonics at 160 and 240Hz, if not even higher. Additionally, the louder the sub is played the higher the harmonic content, and the easier it is to localize. For these reasons you may need to take the crossover frequency even lower than 80Hz to eliminate localization.
post #42381 of 51438
Interesting, Bill - assuming a sane level of volume (I live in an apartment), If the crossover is dropped to say 60 (which I could do), would I see significant harmonics at the 180, 300 area?

That would force some localization. I have two subs, so that would attenuate that, but I've been adhering to 80Hz.
post #42382 of 51438
Vann's sale right now: V5.2 center for $279.88.

They also have a pair of RC-70 returns for $455.89 each.
post #42383 of 51438
Thanks, batpig. This information makes a lot of sense and I appreciate the explanation. I figured there was some reasoning, and one of the keys i was missing was the fact that the sub rolls off on the higher frequencies (my sub at 100-120hz as you mentioned) so that it can focus on the lower frequencies which it was intended to produce, thus i would potentially be introducing a gap by setting the crossover too high. I was thinking of setting it to 90 or 100hz to make better use of my dedicated subs, but now I may just leave it at 80hz given Bill's response (thanks to you as well, Bill!).

I have been thinking of getting an audyssey pro calibration at some point, which i was told would yield significant improvements; however, it is a bit pricy for me at this point, so i am a bit hesitant being that it is around the holidays.

If anyone has any experience with the audyssey pro calibration feel free to share them with us!
post #42384 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

Vann's sale right

They also have a pair of RC-70 returns for $455.89 each.


$911.78 pair. not bad.... description said :::: included. Full manufacturers warranty.
Edited by losservatore - 12/4/12 at 5:12pm
post #42385 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

$911.78 pair. not bad.... description said :::: included. Full manufacturers warranty.

Be careful though if you want the 70's. Vanns doesn't double box them. If the box is bad now, it'll be destroyed once you get it. Mine arrived in bad shape. They offered a good discount, but it's something to worry about.
post #42386 of 51438
The floorstanders are great and the subwoofers are excellent performers.
post #42387 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by gostillerz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

$911.78 pair. not bad.... description said :::: included. Full manufacturers warranty.

Be careful though if you want the 70's. Vanns doesn't double box them. If the box is bad now, it'll be destroyed once you get it. Mine arrived in bad shape. They offered a good discount, but it's something to worry about.


Those speakers got sold super quick smile.gif. For someone out there it was hard to let then go.

I hope they arrive in excellent condition.But you are right the Styrofoam that protect this speakers is not that strong.when I bought mines they arrive just fine, The box a little bit beat up with the Styrofoam broken in pieces.
post #42388 of 51438
I hope I helped someone on ths forum get the speakers of their dreams. But yeah...they tend to not double-box the outlet stuff. I was lucky enough to catch the delivery guy with mine and he helped me unbox them. They had BAD damage and he had no problem taking them back. The thing is they looked like they had been damaged before being put in the box! I went ahead and ordered new ones and they were double-boxed and flawless. Vann's doesn't seem to be directly connected with the outlet warehouse so you do take your chances.

Has anyone here had any experience with the ebayer that has the V6.3's for $1499 a pair with free shipping. The listing says they double-box and they ship to Canada as well. Seems like a pretty good deal. There's also someone that keeps coming up with damaged ones for really cheap that look like Vann's or somebody just doesn't want to deal with trying to sell them. Buyer beware but also keep your eyes open for deals.



P.S.:

Just saw this on an ebayer's item for sale. He wants to make SURE this is a satisfying transaction!

"This item is regular goods of Japan.
The box might be deteriorated in my wear house
However, the item is surely unused.
After completing your payment,
I am handing the item as soon as possible.
And I try to be satisfied for you".

(And no, I wasn't ordering sex aids).
Edited by Fears4Ears - 12/5/12 at 2:43am
post #42389 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It's actually closer to 100Hz. However, even with a brickwall low pass filter there will still be a lot of content above the crossover frequency. That's because subwoofers (all speakers, actually) create harmonics of the source signal, so while the signal into the sub may be 80Hz. there will be audible harmonics at 160 and 240Hz, if not even higher. Additionally, the louder the sub is played the higher the harmonic content, and the easier it is to localize. For these reasons you may need to take the crossover frequency even lower than 80Hz to eliminate localization.

I wish to add my grain of salt to that. While it's perfectly true that harmonics may be localized since they get generated above 80-100 Hz, they're not un-avoidable. If you have a signal and the sub reproduces it perfectly with no (or more realistically, negligible) distortion, then there's no audible harmonics that are generated. Unwanted harmonics appear because of distortion and become audible when a sub is pushed at (or close to) its limits. If it's not the case then there's no reason to fear localized harmonics.

(One way to understand harmonics: any signal can be decomposed as a sum of perfect tones. Each tone is a single frequency sine wave. If you take that perfect sine wave and squish it because of clipping or non-linear distortion due to the amp or driver being pushed too hard, then the resulting waveform can itself be decomposed as the original, fundamental perfect sine wave, plus harmonics -- overtones -- at multiples of the fundamental frequencies. Thus distorting the signal results in unwanted harmonics at higher frequencies).
post #42390 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

I hope I helped someone on ths forum get the speakers of their dreams. But yeah...they tend to not double-box the outlet stuff. I was lucky enough to catch the delivery guy with mine and he helped me unbox them. They had BAD damage and he had no problem taking them back. The thing is they looked like they had been damaged before being put in the box! I went ahead and ordered new ones and they were double-boxed and flawless. Vann's doesn't seem to be directly connected with the outlet warehouse so you do take your chances.
Has anyone here had any experience with the ebayer that has the V6.3's for $1499 a pair with free shipping. The listing says they double-box and they ship to Canada as well. Seems like a pretty good deal. There's also someone that keeps coming up with damaged ones for really cheap that look like Vann's or somebody just doesn't want to deal with trying to sell them. Buyer beware but also keep your eyes open for deals.
P.S.:
Just saw this on an ebayer's item for sale. He wants to make SURE this is a satisfying transaction!
"This item is regular goods of Japan.
The box might be deteriorated in my wear house
However, the item is surely unused.
After completing your payment,
I am handing the item as soon as possible.
And I try to be satisfied for you".
(And no, I wasn't ordering sex aids).

I have purchased from this guy before who has the V6.3's for sale. He is in Wisconsin, cant remember the name of his store though.
He shipped fast and double boxed my V-SW10. Arrived in perfect condition. I would purchase from him again. Also he is an authorized
Energy store, so you will have your warranty. He also includes a sales reciept in the packaging.
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