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post #42451 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by glantern30 View Post

Hello, I have a quick question. I have a 5.1 system that I will be moving down to my basement. I'm looking for some decent surounds for this setup.
Amp-denon 1713
center- rc-lcr
front- rc-10
sub- bic pl 200
Originally the idea was to add some rc-70 when I could afford them and move the rc-10 to the rear (well I guess in a 5.1 setup they would be sides) I can;t afford the rc-70 and by the time I can you won't be able to find them so i'm look for a decent alternative. I don't know much about speakers so I assume I would need bi-poled speakers?????? I'm completely new to this and I love the rc setup I have now, and at somepoint I plan on adding a second pl-200 sub to fill out the space better. but for now I'm looking for surrounds
Please any tips on what to look at would be great!
Thanks in advance for the help...

you dont absolutely need bipole speakers, but they are really meant for the surround duty. The RC-R's would be the ideal, but they are near impossible to find and expensive when you can find them. So the VS surrounds would be the next best. After that, you could use some CR-10's which are the surrounds for the C series.

You dont need to go dipole, so another pair of RC-10's would work as long as they arent too close to the listening position. After that, you could use just about any satellite speaker. The mirage OMD series speakers match pretty well with the RC's and have good dispersion with their design.

There are about a million ways you can go for surrounds, but only you can determine it based on your space and your budget.

Personally, at my gf's townhouse, I have an RC-10 and rc-mini-cc setup and I use a pair of energy Take SAT speakers due to their clean and easy wall installation.

Good luck!
post #42452 of 51438
You don't need bipole or dipole speakers for surrounds. Monopole speakers like another pair of RC-10's can work too.


If you want bipole/dipole speakers and cant find any Energy speakers then these Atlantic Technology speakers may work for you.
http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Technology-2200SR-BLK-Dipole-Bipole-Surround/dp/B001P05N7E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355169132&sr=8-1&keywords=bipole+speakers

the surrounds don't have to match your front 3. Its nice if they can but isn't a requirement.
post #42453 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by glantern30 View Post

Hello, I have a quick question. I have a 5.1 system that I will be moving down to my basement. I'm looking for some decent surounds for this setup.

Amp-denon 1713
center- rc-lcr
front- rc-10
sub- bic pl 200

Originally the idea was to add some rc-70 when I could afford them and move the rc-10 to the rear (well I guess in a 5.1 setup they would be sides) I can;t afford the rc-70 and by the time I can you won't be able to find them so i'm look for a decent alternative. I don't know much about speakers so I assume I would need bi-poled speakers??????

if you can afford the V-S surrounds ($500/pair with free shipping) they would be the best option: http://www.wwstereo.com/Home-Audio/Speakers/Surround-Speakers/VSPIANOB

you don't NEED bipole speakers for surrounds but they offer a few advantages. For one, these types of speakers tend to be designed to flush-mount to walls which makes them convenient for surround usage, as they don't consume floor space and are low profile when installed. Second, the bipole / dipole radiation makes them sound more "spacious" as they radiate sound in a wide pattern, making the surrounds feel more immersive.

a lot depends on how your room layout is and where you want to put the surrounds, plus the distance from the surrounds. If your surrounds will be at least 5-6 feet away from the listening zone, the benefit of the bipole/dipole design vs the traditional speaker is less pronounced. Plus, if you don't mind having towers or stand-mounted bookshelf speakers (or if you can't wall mount) then the benefit of the flush wall mounting option is reduced.

but, bottom line, if you want to wall-mount the surrounds and want an enveloping home theater experience, those V-S surrounds will be a perfect fit.
post #42454 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

if you can afford the V-S surrounds ($500/pair with free shipping) they would be the best option: http://www.wwstereo.com/Home-Audio/Speakers/Surround-Speakers/VSPIANOB
you don't NEED bipole speakers for surrounds but they offer a few advantages. For one, these types of speakers tend to be designed to flush-mount to walls which makes them convenient for surround usage, as they don't consume floor space and are low profile when installed. Second, the bipole / dipole radiation makes them sound more "spacious" as they radiate sound in a wide pattern, making the surrounds feel more immersive.
a lot depends on how your room layout is and where you want to put the surrounds, plus the distance from the surrounds. If your surrounds will be at least 5-6 feet away from the listening zone, the benefit of the bipole/dipole design vs the traditional speaker is less pronounced. Plus, if you don't mind having towers or stand-mounted bookshelf speakers (or if you can't wall mount) then the benefit of the flush wall mounting option is reduced.
but, bottom line, if you want to wall-mount the surrounds and want an enveloping home theater experience, those V-S surrounds will be a perfect fit.



Very interesting!! Because It's going in my basement I can't wall mount. We decided it wouldn't be a good idea to wall off the basement in the event of flooding.. Now our basement has never flooded and we've never had signs of water in my basement. It's just my wife is tired of all the speakers and equipment in the living room I told her I'd move it all downstairs where I would have some peace lol!

So since my plan IS to have my speakers about 5ft behind me.. Therefore I could get away with just plain old directional speakers!!! Maybe I'll just use my old onkyo 100 watt speakers that came with my old htib system and save some money unless anyone thinks I would benift from new surround speaker? the size of the room is 14X18X7 (which is why I wanted to box it off and make it smaller lol) But I plan on setting up my system in the front part of the room. thanks for the help

Ciao!
post #42455 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

You don't need bipole or dipole speakers for surrounds. Monopole speakers like another pair of RC-10's can work too.
If you want bipole/dipole speakers and cant find any Energy speakers then these Atlantic Technology speakers may work for you.
http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Technology-2200SR-BLK-Dipole-Bipole-Surround/dp/B001P05N7E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355169132&sr=8-1&keywords=bipole+speakers
the surrounds don't have to match your front 3. Its nice if they can but isn't a requirement.






Afrogt,

THanks for the input, I really wich I could find another pair of rc-10 but at this point I've had no luck... mad.gif.. The RC 10's are what I want but i'll check out those other speakers. thanks for your input again!!!
post #42456 of 51438
Quote:
So since my plan IS to have my speakers about 5ft behind me..

Just FYI -- 5 feet behind you isn't a good placement for surround speakers. They can be a bit behind you but should be more out to the sides.

See here: http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/

(and if you google there are many other placement guides for speakers)

Quote:
the size of the room is 14X18X7 (which is why I wanted to box it off and make it smaller lol)

is that a typo?? 14x18 isn't that big!

also, FYI, there IS a pair of RC-50's for sale on eBay for a pretty reasonable price: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENERGY-RC-50-Floor-Standing-Tower-Speakers-Pair-/281036076345

auction ends in less than 24hrs and no bids, so if you get it for the minimum bid or a bit higher it would be only $500 shipped. Then you could move the RC-10's to surrounds.
post #42457 of 51438
Alright, a pair of V-S it is then. And eventually, down the line, how about front heights? Any suggestions? I know you said V-S also works well for front heights, but I fear they'll be out of stock once I can afford to buy a pair of front heights. So any alternatives? Will the Atlantic Technology 2200SR-BLK posted above be a good alternative?
post #42458 of 51438
EDIT -- oops, responding to the wrong guy! biggrin.gif for you, I agree that another pair of V-S surrounds will be perfect for completing the 7.1 setup.

I wouldn't worry about Front Heights at this point. Do you even have a 9 channel receiver?
post #42459 of 51438
Yessir, I have the Pioneer Elite SC-55.

You're right, I'm not worrying about the front heights at this point. I just want to complete my 7.1 set up with another pair of V-S's biggrin.gif

The front heights question was more of a hypothetical question for down the road.
post #42460 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldBurgundy View Post

Yessir, I have the Pioneer Elite SC-55.
You're right, I'm not worrying about the front heights at this point. I just want to complete my 7.1 set up with another pair of V-S's biggrin.gif
The front heights question was more of a hypothetical question for down the road.

I'd go wides when the time comes.

Stay classy...
post #42461 of 51438
where abouts are you living in Canada.. im in Oshawa Ont...

last week the future shop had the v-s surrounds at 399.. i think you will see them there again before the new yr..

also had the v 5.2 centre at 449 last week now 799..

so far ive got the v 6.3 for 899 each and the v s 10 sub for 499... which is really good.. picked up the 3313ci denon reciever for 999 ... think ive done well shopping there..

was thinking of going to Totems but in the end its was too much cash for me.... the energy veritas will have to do..
post #42462 of 51438
hey if the basement floods you can get all new equipment lol.. why would making a room matter in a flood ...

your room size is a bit off for acoustics from the reading ive done lately.. you want to make your room with the ratio's 1 to 1.60 to 2.33 to start making it really good sounding..

it dont matter what equipment you have if the room acoustics suck...

so the major limiting factor for your room is the 7ft h...ceiling x 1.60 = w of 11.2 and 2.33 L = 16.3 would be a great starting point.. there are other ratio's but that would be the best
one for you to use at 7 ft...

after you get it built had in some bass traps and diffusors as needed.. sound proof it up and crank the volume keeping the wife happy eh..

acoustics of the room is the key..
post #42463 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldBurgundy View Post

Yessir, I have the Pioneer Elite SC-55.
You're right, I'm not worrying about the front heights at this point. I just want to complete my 7.1 set up with another pair of V-S's biggrin.gif
The front heights question was more of a hypothetical question for down the road.

Go wides instead of heights with your Pioneer. I personally like the front wides on my Pioneer better
post #42464 of 51438
hmm interesting. what did you use for your front wides then?

oh and @hernanu, at first I was "wait, did I say something offensive?"

and then i remembered where i got my username from. hahaha stay class my man, and thanks for the advice
post #42465 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

is that a typo?? 14x18 isn't that big!
.



Batpig,



No its not big thats just the part of my basement that was useable space for a small theater room. I'm gonna try for those rc-50's on ebay if I get the ladies approval ( I don't know how you guys do it with your ladies/wifes all she see are these gigantic speakers lol) if not I'm gonna be on the look out for another set of rc 10's and get a second pl 200 to fill the room out and live with it!smile.gif the rc50's would be great if I was never able to wall off a portion of my basement since they would fill the room better. But then I would probably need to buy a new amp since the denon 1713 would really under power it.
post #42466 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by glantern30 View Post

Batpig,
No its not big thats just the part of my basement that was useable space for a small theater room. I'm gonna try for those rc-50's on ebay if I get the ladies approval ( I don't know how you guys do it with your ladies/wifes all she see are these gigantic speakers lol) if not I'm gonna be on the look out for another set of rc 10's and get a second pl 200 to fill the room out and live with it!smile.gif the rc50's would be great if I was never able to wall off a portion of my basement since they would fill the room better. But then I would probably need to buy a new amp since the denon 1713 would really under power it.

The RC-50's are pretty efficient speakers, so i think they will be fine with the 1713, even with the 14x18 room. I have the RC-30's driven by a 1911 in a ~12x20 room and they are plenty for me. I dont even have my sub hooked up and I am quite satisfied. It is in my condo however with neighbors above, below and on either side of me, so i cant really turn it up that much anyway.
post #42467 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgallerie View Post

The RC-50's are pretty efficient speakers, so i think they will be fine with the 1713, even with the 14x18 room. I have the RC-30's driven by a 1911 in a ~12x20 room and they are plenty for me. I dont even have my sub hooked up and I am quite satisfied. It is in my condo however with neighbors above, below and on either side of me, so i cant really turn it up that much anyway.


As I write this I'm having the debate with the wifey on the rc 50's and I'm losing lmao!!!!! It looks like I'll be on the look out for another set of rc-10s and later on I'll add another bic pl200. I want to thank all you for the info, the reason why I bought my speakers were due to this forum and I love them!!



I'm curious... kgallerie how do you have those things and NOT open them up???? that would drive me crazy, I have a hard enough time not blasting movies with my pair of rc-10s and the rc-lcr lol!!!!! biggrin.gif
post #42468 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by glantern30 View Post

As I write this I'm having the debate with the wifey on the rc 50's and I'm losing lmao!!!!! It looks like I'll be on the look out for another set of rc-10s and later on I'll add another bic pl200.

I had to convince my wife to let me buy a pair of RC-50s. She was hesitant but after hearing the RC-LCR and RC-10 I used that sound to convince her. Once we actually had them, she was super amazed and loves listening to her music through them because we can do 2.0 music if we want since there is adequate bass (for an apartment) with just the towers. She doesn't regret buying them now. Maybe my wife should talk to your wife smile.gif
post #42469 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by glantern30 View Post

As I write this I'm having the debate with the wifey on the rc 50's and I'm losing lmao!!!!! It looks like I'll be on the look out for another set of rc-10s and later on I'll add another bic pl200. I want to thank all you for the info, the reason why I bought my speakers were due to this forum and I love them!!
I'm curious... kgallerie how do you have those things and NOT open them up???? that would drive me crazy, I have a hard enough time not blasting movies with my pair of rc-10s and the rc-lcr lol!!!!! biggrin.gif

RC-10's on stands take up just as much space as the towers......closed case. And isnt your setup going in the basement (aka Mancave)?!

The towers will give you much better front stage than the bookshelf RC-10's. The 30's blow the 10's out of the water....I can only imaging what the 50's would do. Keep fighting man!!!!! Stand your ground!!!

I have opened mine up.....but only during the day when not many people are around. It is killing me that I have a S10.3 sitting unplugged in my spare room though. I cant wait to get a place that I can actually use it mad.gif
post #42470 of 51438
seriously, you already agreed to throw the setup in the basement! That means she loses aesthetic approval control wink.gif tell her how you were willing to compromise by moving your setup so she can decorate the living room however she wants, so in return you should be able to get the speakers you want!!

that auction has only 4.5 hours left and still 0 bids. Just do it! As noted above, there is no difference between bookshelves on stands vs. the towers in terms of how much space they take, and IMO a tower speaker is better looking anyway.

also, as someone else mentioned, it's a myth that towers take more power than bookshelf speakers. It's actually the opposite within the same line -- the tower has a larger cabinet and more drivers and is thus more efficient at converting the electrical signal into physical sound energy. The RC-50's actually need LESS power than the RC-10's, and your 1713 will have no problem cranking them LOUD biggrin.gif
post #42471 of 51438
I was in the same boat a few weeks ago, had a RC10 pair+LCR and was looking to complete my 5.1 setup..got a pair of V-S for 400$ on a recent deal at wwstereo. Waiting on my speaker stands and cables to hook it up properly and check out.

There was a used RC-R on sale very recently on eBay at a very good price, this was after i got my speakers but not sure if its still out there.
post #42472 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

that auction has only 4.5 hours left and still 0 bids. Just do it!

^^ This!!! It better to ask for forgiveness than beg for permission! biggrin.gif


Man......it's so easy to tell others these things when you're not the one who will end up in the doghouse! biggrin.giftongue.gif
Edited by kgallerie - 12/11/12 at 10:22am
post #42473 of 51438
So I ran Audyssay on my RC360 for my LCR Fronts and Center and my VS Surrounds.

1. It sets my front and centers to 40hz. and the surrounds to 50hz while putting my sub at -4? Do you know why it is doing this and what should actually the correct adjustments be?

2. I heave the LFE LPF set to 80hz

3. Also what do I set the Gain on the VS Surrounds too?
post #42474 of 51438
post #42475 of 51438
also, just to get you started:

- the crossovers were set low because that's what Audyssey measured their low end response to be. The receiver just takes the measurements and sets the crossover as low as possible. The recommendation is to raise these crossovers to 80Hz afterwards so you are sure the subwoofer is getting the low end bass.

- the sub is set to -4dB because (just like all the other speakers) that's the digital level required to get it to play at the same volume as all the other speakers.

- the LFE LPF should actually be 120Hz

- (since this last one is not an Audyssey question, a little more detail)... the "gain" on the V-S surrounds controls the volume level of the side-firing midrange drivers. It basically controls how strong the bipole/dipole effect is... the lower the gain, the more the speaker will be like a direct-radiating speaker.... the higher the gain, the more the speaker will have a wide dispersion and be more "spacious" sounding. Basically, you want to set this to taste to give the desired amount of surround immersion.
post #42476 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

also, FYI, there IS a pair of RC-50's for sale on eBay for a pretty reasonable price: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENERGY-RC-50-Floor-Standing-Tower-Speakers-Pair-/281036076345
auction ends in less than 24hrs and no bids, so if you get it for the minimum bid or a bit higher it would be only $500 shipped. Then you could move the RC-10's to surrounds.

The only reason I am selling those is because I recently upgraded my speakers to RC-70. I was very happy with the speakers though. Infact, I don't see much difference between RC-50s and RC-70s except for the music.

I am seriously thinking of keeping them for a rainy day wides if they don't go this time. They are in excellent condition with no dents or scratches.
post #42477 of 51438
Good luck buddy smile.gif You can tell I'm trying to help you sell them! biggrin.gif

That's a very reasonable price and hopefully someone on this thread gets to enjoy your "sloppy seconds" tongue.gif
post #42478 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Good luck buddy smile.gif You can tell I'm trying to help you sell them! biggrin.gif
That's a very reasonable price and hopefully someone on this thread gets to enjoy your "sloppy seconds" tongue.gif

Thanks batpig. Appreciate your fair analysis as always.
post #42479 of 51438
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

also, just to get you started:
- the crossovers were set low because that's what Audyssey measured their low end response to be. The receiver just takes the measurements and sets the crossover as low as possible. The recommendation is to raise these crossovers to 80Hz afterwards so you are sure the subwoofer is getting the low end bass.
- the sub is set to -4dB because (just like all the other speakers) that's the digital level required to get it to play at the same volume as all the other speakers.
- the LFE LPF should actually be 120Hz
- (since this last one is not an Audyssey question, a little more detail)... the "gain" on the V-S surrounds controls the volume level of the side-firing midrange drivers. It basically controls how strong the bipole/dipole effect is... the lower the gain, the more the speaker will be like a direct-radiating speaker.... the higher the gain, the more the speaker will have a wide dispersion and be more "spacious" sounding. Basically, you want to set this to taste to give the desired amount of surround immersion.

Thanks a lot.

Futhermore on the VS Surround with RC10 Rears, should i set it to Dipole or BiPole?
post #42480 of 51438
Somebody needs to submit a pic of some RC-10's on stands next to some RC-50's to help this guy out! He will prolly end up paying over $300 with stands and that hole he sees under the speaker is the same hole he will hear in the sound. Would be a shame.
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